To my understanding, the PS2 would have been the best if it wasn't limited to 48MBVieo said:And technically speaking, what is currently the most 2D capable console? NeoGeo?
Vieo said:If a console has powerful 3D visuals, does that automatically mean it can push powerful 2D visuals?
The Abominable Snowman said:To my understanding, the PS2 would have been the best if it wasn't limited to 48MB
Yeah, it's pretty much null now, especially next gen. The focus now should be alternatives to sprites that produce a better end result. Cell Shading is nice, and Flash shows potential.aaaaa0 said:All three can do more than any 2D game will ever need, aside from memory limitations.
Is Alien Hominid actually using some sort of retrofitted Flash Player to run on the console ports? Are there any other console games using Flash? From the dev community I've heard about the possibility of ported Flash menu interfaces, but not full games/other assets.The Abominable Snowman said:The focus now should be alternatives to sprites that produce a better end result. Cell Shading is nice, and Flash shows potential.
Jado said:Wasn't the Saturn a better 2D machine than the PS1?
Not necessarily, the PS1 has superior 3D capabilities than the Saturn, but its 2D capabilities are subpar. Notice the tons of missing frames + horrendous loading times for its Capcom or SNK fighters ports.Vieo said:If a console has powerful 3D visuals, does that automatically mean it can push powerful 2D visuals?
Of course compared to now Neo Geo is weak, but when it was released way back in 1990 it was a monster for its time.Fatghost28 said:NeoGeo is actually pretty weak 2D hardware. It was outclassed by the Saturn and PS1 and perhaps even the 3DO. Where the Neo had the advantage over the early 32 bit machines was nearly unlimited cart ROM vs very limited RAM.
Not necessarily, the PS1 has superior 3D capabilities than the Saturn, but its 2D capabilities are subpar. Notice the tons of missing frames + horrendous loading times for its Capcom or SNK fighters ports.
APF said:Is Alien Hominid actually using some sort of retrofitted Flash Player to run on the console ports? Are there any other console games using Flash? From the dev community I've heard about the possibility of ported Flash menu interfaces, but not full games/other assets.
Dr_Cogent said:2D is such a non-issue it's not even funny I am sure.
Yep, and it made the characters look like paper-dolls.The Abominable Snowman said:Wasn't the Sammy Rumblefish games Flash-made mostly?
With good animation and high definition support, easily.Tain said:You really think someone is going to fill over 512 megs of ram at a time in a 2D game today?
Guilty Gear X and Street Fighter III beg to differ.Hellraizah said:Good 2D hardware MUST be cartridge based.
So the Naomi/2 sucked...?Hellraizah said:Good 2D hardware MUST be cartridge based.
With good animation and high definition support, easily.
Charm and detail, basicallyZaptruder said:What are some properties of 2D not easily replicated by 3D?
Artstyle and higher res Cel-shaded textures, as well as higher poly models. I don't think Cel-shading allows for normal mapping or bump mapping.How would we go about imitating those properties with 3D?.
Not only that, but Saturn had tons of hardwired scrolls and effects for 2D that PSone lacked. It also pushed more, larger sprites and generally had more processsing power.MomoPufflet said:I was under the impression that tiny RAM was what hurt PS1 as a 2D machine. Saturn had more, plus the RAM expansion cart.
The Abominable Snowman said:Charm and detail, basically
Artstyle and higher res Cel-shaded textures, as well as higher poly models. I don't think Cel-shading allows for normal mapping or bump mapping.
The Abominable Snowman said:Charm and detail, basically
Fatghost28 said:NeoGeo is actually pretty weak 2D hardware. It was outclassed by the Saturn and PS1 and perhaps even the 3DO. Where the Neo had the advantage over the early 32 bit machines was nearly unlimited cart ROM vs very limited RAM.
Zaptruder said:I mean... somehow I think they'd be less people holding the likes of Street Fighter EX series in disdain if the graphics and style were more akin to this:
acidviper said:Good 2D always has 3D in it. and vice versa.
OmniGamer said:I thought the Saturn only had like half a MB more RAM in total than the PS...also, what was the reason for the PS being so much slower in loading 2D games?
Vieo said:If a console has powerful 3D visuals, does that automatically mean it can push powerful 2D visuals?
And technically speaking, what is currently the most 2D capable console? NeoGeo?
About 1MB more total... though Saturn had notable expansion carts, for last gen it was...OmniGamer said:I thought the Saturn only had like half a MB more RAM in total than the PS...also, what was the reason for the PS being so much slower in loading 2D games?
Ponn01 said:Saturn had the good ol' ram pack, for which us importers could hold over the PS non-Saturn owners heads when it came to Xmen vs. Street Fighter and actually use 2 different characters at a time.
Instigator said:Tecmo already have the plasticky, anime characters covered.
Zaptruder said:And no one really complains about the graphics of DOA3 or DOAU.
anotheriori said:The reason why 2d->3d transition doesn't work to well is that the 2D representation is taken with a bit of imagination for the viewer to fill in the details as it's a symobolic representation of the character, unlike a 3D model where realism comes into play. By making the model 3D (from a 2D original) people's expectations can't be fullfiled.
It works better when the character is originally created in 3D but even then the problem comes into play with DOA models where the chosen anime style is rejected by people who want realism, so in some sense 3D = realism. People expect details, wrinkles, freckles etc when characters make the transition.
Lastly this probably isn't a very good argument but with 2D the artist has more control and detail working on an exact perspective (2D) on an exact frame, so that it look exactly a certain way. With 3D its somewhat a stab in the dark, since the perspective can be changed and unlike 2D they characters can't dynamically change as easily from frame to frame.