Wowfunhappy
Member
I'm pretty sure there's a tradition of not cutting off mics in debates. We can have a discussion about whether that tradition should change, but it's not necessarily something a single pair of moderators can just decide do.
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Presidential Debate #2 |Washington University| Grab me right in the Ken Bone
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I'm pretty sure there's a tradition of not cutting off mics in debates. We can have a discussion about whether that tradition should change, but it's not necessarily something a single pair of moderators can just decide do.
They're a symbol of old guard Americana. It's also a way to deflect from energy issue solutions for people who don't want change.
Nah. People hate when candidates cut off the moderator, it makes them look petty and rude, so the problem kind of solves itself.
I agree that cutting mics is a good idea (and they have to get rid of these useless live audiences), but I think Cooper and Raddatz pressed both candidates aggressively and took the exact opposite approach to Holt. And I think it was the right approach imo. Just because you think either candidate may hang themselves on their own (the Holt approach) doesn't mean you just let them off the hook from having to answer important questions.
They probably both got donations from coal companies.
Thanks, that's actually an awesome article on that. They both dodged the fuck out of some of those questions, but like the article said, there really was no point in the questions.
Nah, they did a good job last night IMO. Much better than Lester "low energy" Holt.
balladofwindfishes
Member
I think going a bit over time is fine when the person is clearly wrapping up what they are saying. Clinton did that a lot last night, she was only a few seconds over time because she needed to finish a sentence.
CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls
Banned
Sure I get that. But what we saw last night wasn't a town hall meeting because the moderators did poorly and both candidates decided to forego the rules of a town hall debate so that either could get the last word in which resulted in a lot of wasted time. It was really poorly run.
But it was better than what Holt gave us.
DerangedHermit
Member
Creepiest moment of the night: https://twitter.com/NumbersMuncher/status/785293112025505793
FlutterPuffs
Member
I thought the moderators did a good job considering that they aren't allowed to just cut off the mics. They managed to get speeches under control most of the time.
Ninja Scooter
Member
The polls always had him leading for the nomination though. People (myself included, early on) ignored the polls. It's the opposite in this case. The polls say he has no chance.
King Tubby
Member
The sad truth is that rambling incoherently, denying the truth, and ignoring questions to instead hit tired talking points are not seen for what they are. If they were, nobody would have concluded that Pence had won the VP debate. These things ultimately are more about perception than they are about the actual issues. If I were judging it along my personal metric, I'd say the Democrats crushed the Republicans in all 3 debates so far, but if I'm trying to judge who won in terms of a more neutral, national perspective (or as close to it as one could get, since even that seems like an absurd concept at times) I have to take a step back and think of each candidate's general public perception and what they did to improve it or damage their opponent's.
Some things may be harder than others to fact check, and some may be "grey areas".
But there were also plenty of slam dunk lies that were plain as day and should be noted. Case in point:
- Position on Iraq invasion
- US growth rate
- sending people watching a sex tape by tweet
- trade deficit #
- growth rate #
- who started the birtherism, and Trump continuing it
- Clinton laughing at a 12yr old rape victim
- US is highest taxed country in the world
... and much more
I think the base is probably bigger than that. They're trying to court anyone in any energy industry (or any industry) who's in fear of losing their job because "EPA" or "green energy". There's a few states/electoral votes out there where that's basically the entire state isn't it? I think most of them are deep red though. I think Clinton only really cared about it during the primary.
I always like to think "independent voters" are these hyper intellectual "I don't want to tie myself to any idiology" group of people out there. But I think there's a big chunk of them that are more the "I hear the EPA is bad from one friend, and I heard its good from another friend. I just don't know what to think anymore." type.
ElRenoRaven
Member
Oh shit CNN is a laugh riot right now. They have Vicki Sciolaro on supporting trump and she's nuts. Starts to defend it by going on about issues and talking about how Clintion is for killing babies due to Roe V Wade. Then the host gets her back on subject and she says he's not running for pope.
Jesus these people. It says a lot when the host hangs her head in her hands due to the oral office comment in regards to Bill.
Jesus these people. It says a lot when the host hangs her head in her hands due to the oral office comment in regards to Bill.
What? Good lord, people summoned the devil.
"Marketing. He'll never run, it's too much work. I'm guessing his tv show is about to premier again or he's about to sell a book."
Hoping that Murphy's law do not apply in this scenario.
She's insane. So pathetic.
SparkleMotion
Member
She said that "God can use this man" referencing Trump.
The oral office followed by the head hang was hilarious. She ends the segment "I just... I just... I gotta go." LOL
MisterR
Member
The thing about coal mining is that yes, it's a small percentage of the entire country. However, the areas that are coal mining areas depend almost entirely on the coal industry. You're talking whole communities in Kentucky, WV and a few other states being basically destroyed by the end of coal mining jobs.
benjipwns
Banned
Just to take an example though, is the actual number of the trade deficit as important as the point being made about it?
Look Trump is wrong about the very concept of trade deficits but it doesn't really matter what the figure he says and what it actually is unless they're so insanely far apart for multiple years. And even then it's more about his refusal to admit if he's wrong. If he accepts the "correct" figures, it doesn't really change his argument.
I don't want Trump and Hillary getting a bunch of "false" thrown up just because one of them misstates the trade deficit and the other just goes with the number because it's tangential to the actual argument. And really I don't want them debating what the number is at all.
And even that's being decided by the "fact checker" choosing which source to use for the trade deficit. Maybe Hillary is using 2014 numbers because the 2015 ones weren't out yet when she prepped her talking points on it six months ago or whatever.
The actual number won't matter when they take office anyway because it will be different.
I think trying to real-time score these things or add components of actual debate scoring into what are not in any way real debates just makes them worse than the garbage they already are. That just encourages more controlled sound bite memorization.
Plus, Trump's an unique case, making rules based around him is a losers game I think.
For all the bad he brings to the table, Trump's refusal to stick to the debate rules, to ignore the moderators, etc. is more informative than if he acted like a good little Jeb! and said please and thank you and stuck to the time limits.
ElRenoRaven
Member
Yup. I feel so sorry for her. You could see her going really? really wtf you idiot. At the end she was just like please let me end this.
It will just leave you bewildered and deeply concerened. I wish I hadn't seen it.
just saw it live, it was amazing
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
The thing is that the demographic is characterized by racism and sexism. It should not be a difficult position.
Edit: woops, didn't realize how long I left the page open.
The debate instructor afterwards was hilarious too. His words: "He (Trump) was sniffing harder than any coke fiend I've ever know."
Polioliolio
Member
The guy in that discussion was really pushing the "men are creeps" angle before that. "Fathers talk like this in the corner about the moms at children's birthday parties"? Come the fuck on.
It was by far one of the most blatant lies he's told if only for how talked about and recent it was. Literally every new network had his tweet on the screen for a week beforehand. I mean, it's still right out there on his Twitter.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/781788223055994880?lang=en
When you can donate over 2 billion dollars, and then pay nearly $2M in income tax after that, you don't have a restless night of sleep for the rest of your damn life.Goddamn, Warren Buffet responds to Trump's claims that he also used carryforward to avoid paying federal income taxes.
https://twitter.com/carlquintanilla/status/785514714839351296
...Until you hear Donald Trump is running for president.
ElRenoRaven
Member
I just went back and recorded it and will upload in a minute. The whole segment is about 6 minutes. But yea there is the oral office comment above. The entire segment is worth watching though.
LMAO
"Your honor, I was in a locker room when I admitted I raped that woman"
"Well! Case dismissed!"
This is what I've talked about. This is anecdotal, but every woman I've spoken to definitely took note of his body language and thought he was stalking her. I was actually afraid for her.
He's pretty much toast with women.
Your honor, in closing, boys will be boys.
RE: Realtime Fact-Checking. I wonder if IBM's Watson or perhaps Google's Deep Mind or similar system could pull it off reasonably well. Would be hilarious to pair it with a sedate HAL9000 voice that could just interject as appropriate. "Yes, Donald, you most certainly did say you had sexually assaulted women."
Or just do a reckoning at the end of the debate, with both candidates still on stage.
Or just do a reckoning at the end of the debate, with both candidates still on stage.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Great post. So tired of people trying to treat the two as if they are even remotely on the same level. One is a complete goon, who represents the worst of America, and has no concrete plan for just about anything. The other is a qualified candidate for the presidency, whether you personally like her or not.
Frozenprince
Banned
I'm still laughing about Trumps "Why don't we SNEAK ATTACK THEM!" complete with whispering and pantomime.
CraigerGamer
Member
Summary of debate by Wait But Why http://waitbutwhy.com/2016/10/second-presidential-debate.html
More at the jump.
More at the jump.
Slurpy2k20
Member
http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/10/politics/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-debate/
Yep. Trump and his surrogates will use all the time they have left to smear and taint Clinton as much as humanly possible. They need to make sure she's despised by their base as much as possible so they can monetize that hatred when she's President.
Yep. Trump and his surrogates will use all the time they have left to smear and taint Clinton as much as humanly possible. They need to make sure she's despised by their base as much as possible so they can monetize that hatred when she's President.
benjipwns
Banned
br0ken_shad0w
Member
Baylor was truly ahead of their time.
Heh. I've been seeing that a lot with the pro-life Christian brigade on my Facebook feed. Like, Clinton's abortion stance is actually kinda pro-life when she talks. At worst, she's back to her nuanced self. Recognizing that procedures happen even if its illegal. Recognizing that preventing pregnancy is a better tactic than trying to prevent abortions. Recognizing that complications can require painful decisions even late term. There's nothing in any of her statements I've found that comes close to the typical left "Women should be able to choose whatever they want with their own body".
But it doesn't matter to them. She's for it. They're against it. They'd elect a brick rather than admit the issue is more nuanced than "they're killing babies!". Fuck, they'd probably concede at this point that Donald Trump has likely paid for more than a few abortions, but they'll happily vote for him under some delusional belief that he'll nominate some pro-life justices (when in reality, I have a feeling he'll probably just nominate his own kids).
I lost it when he denied that. His exact words were "check out sex tape." Like why even pretend you meant something different? You can't spin that.
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