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Pretty much confirmed - Free Radical have been Hazed

They took a gamble with Haze, and lost big time. Sucks to be them, and I hope the people laid off land on their feet. What a shitty timing.

<backseat analyst>
Still, this is pretty exemplary for the broken model we've got going on right now: If your big game crashes and burns, it takes the whole company with it. Diversifying is key to avoid something like that. As much as I'd love to be in the "Shoulda maed Wii gaem lulz" camp, the fact remains that they were betting on a single horse (the Starwars game), with apparently nary a backup plan.
Develop another good game on a another viable platform, maybe some downloadable XBLA/Wiiware/PSN/Steam/Impulse/whateverthefuckelse games. This way the whole company can stay afloat even if some parts are currently out of work. Sure, there will be layoffs if a deal falls through like that, but at least the core of he company can stay in business for a little while.

On the other hand, more teams require even more capital, even if it minimizes the risk. So I guess it's a problem inherent to the current situation: the industry is running out of moneys. Each single project is eating up too many resources, so instead of projects being developed in parallel they're now being started up sequentially. We need a fix to that problem ASAP, or the next couple of months are gonna be brutal.
</>

<fanboy rant>
On topic of the Wii, I believe that ship has sailed. All the franchises have transplanted their respective fanbases from the older consoles to the HD consoles; they're unlikely to follow to another console mid-generation unless an increase in quality is guaranteed, which is practically impossible without experienced Wii coders/artists and former experience wih the whole platform - and I doubt experienced staff can easily be "bought", those are barely available due to shitty last-gen GC numbers and wrong forecasts.

I believe the fanbase aspect is pretty nicely demonstrated by the CoD5 numbers. Or it could be my fanboyism. I dunno, really. At least in my eyes, it makes sense. Couple that with the 3rd party stigma and budding competition by smaller/leaner 3rd parties, and they're faced with the proposition of clawing their way into a "closed" market, a daunting task at best. They missed the train, and now it's gonna cost them dearly. Couple that with the fact(?) that Nintendo doesn't give two shits about 3rd parties, they allow them to sell games on their platform, that's all. At least that's the impression I get. So... they're fucked proper until the market resets the next time.
</>

Anyway, back on topic: Good luck, Ex-Free Radical guys. "Break a leg". I hope you'll find (enjoyable) employment ASAP again.
 
megateto said:
I always thought that publishers were the bad guys trying to force developers to dilute their original game idea, I guess that the two sides of the story remains true with developer-publisher relationships.

And thanks for the input, element!
i have been on both sides, as well as worked in a 'good' partnership, which is really how any project should be viewed. publishers have access to many things that smaller developers don't or can't afford, such as large scale playtesting and focus testing. It is totally a two way street, and whoever comes up with the original idea needs to be respected, but just like any creative industry you have to pay attention to the person paying the bills.
 
Firewire said:
I don't know where you got that it was combined PS2, Wii, PC and DS from the same article? I didn't see that.

Regardless if all 200,000 copies sold on the Wii that is still not good. COD is a major franchise and they spent the time and resources making a Wii version and its not selling all that great?
Just hope that in the future they don't decide to skip some of these versions.

EDIT: I see where you got the breakdown, sorry I missed the link to Gamedaily.
Well, considering the first month sales of WaW were fairly similar to the first month sales of CoD4, I'm gonna guess it was mostly the same audience buying the game. And since all those people had to own it on the PS3 or 360, that's where all the sales are going to come from.

You can't just throw a sequel onto a console that didn't have the previous game (which was a massive success, mind you) and expect to have sales anywhere near the other version.

EDIT - CTLance sorta covered this.
 
Very sad to hear this news. Hope the FR employees find work elsewhere.

As a fan, I'm pretty disapointed that TS4 will never be released. Not to comment on the whole Wii vs HD thing, but I was personally hoping for a Wii version. Timesplitters seemed like a natural fit for that console considering it already had a moving reticle (hold over from Goldeneye) and arcade/minigame challenges. The level editor and WiiConnect would have been another selling point. They could have re-used a lot of their code from the GC version of Future Perfect too. Oh well.

Firewire said:
Bullshit!

Call of Duty flops on Nintendo platforms



http://www.nintendoeverything.com/?p=7392

Going off topic, but I rented the Wii version of WaW and it is one of the ugliest games on Wii. It has some nice smoke/fire effects and the levels are large, but overall it has a bland, washed out look. I know, what did I expect on Wii right? Well Red Steel looks better, and many last-gen FPS games look much better. CoD Wii controls great, but really a lot of this CoD's appeal comes from recreating the battlefield and the poor presentation on Wii really hurts it. Take away the graphics and the single player gameplay is pretty bland. Looking at the total package I'm not surprised that CoD fans went for the much better looking HD games.
 
I guess this means I'll never play a Timesplitters game with a jump button. :-(

Seriously, this blows. I really enjoyed Future Perfect and was really hoping for a new installment. It's easy to look at this retrospectively and say "shouldn't have gone PS3 exclusive/shouldn't have made Haze" but it was impossible to predict that back when they started coding. Well.... I guess they could've playtested Haze a bit more. :lol

Good luck to all the devs, there's plenty of opportunity out there and I hope you each find a new home.
 
GSG Flash said:
TS2 was definitely a great game and TS3 was definitely above average, you just have bad taste.

Also, both TS2 and TS3 sold a good amount of copies, they were both successful sales-wise.

Opinions are opinions. I think you have bad taste. Oh well.

TS2 might have been "successful" sales wise, maybe not, I don't know or care. AFAIK TS3 was definitely not. If they were that successful, we'd have seen another average TS game already.
 
CTLance said:
Still, this is pretty exemplary for the broken model we've got going on right now: If your big game crashes and burns, it takes the whole company with it. Diversifying is key to avoid something like that. As much as I'd love to be in the "Shoulda maed Wii gaem lulz" camp, the fact remains that they were betting on a single horse (the Starwars game), with apparently nary a backup plan.
How is this broken? Any other industry based around large projects (like movies) works the exact same way. If your product flops and you can't get any more money, you go under.
 
Sucks to be them =/

Eventhough I can't say I really liked any of their games, it still sucks to see them go like this.
 
Concerning the EDGE article, it wasn't the Novotel - it was the Holiday Inn.

And as far as I understand the employees expected things like that to happen since the company was hit with bad news again and again.
 
Zabka said:
How is this broken? Any other industry based around large projects (like movies) works the exact same way. If your product flops and you can't get any more money, you go under.
Film industry is broken too. :p
At least when it goes to the Blockbuster movies.

IIRC, Square made some full flops before they invented Final Fantasy. Fortunately, 20 years ago a game doesn't cost as much as today.:lol
 
Film industry is broken too. :p
At least when it goes to the Blockbuster movies.
the movie industry isn't nearly as broken as the game industry. the game industry has a 6 week window for your game to sell, since very little games have legs. while movies have multiple revenue sources. box office, dvd/bluray, premium channel, cable air, network air. all of these are forms of revenue. typically even your bombs will turn a profit once getting to dvd/bluray sales and rental market. why do you think you see so many movies going straight to dvd?
also movies really don't have a resale/used market like video games do. there is the rental market, but studios make pretty good money from that. compared to used, which publisher and developers don't make a dime on.
 
element said:
the movie industry isn't nearly as broken as the game industry. the game industry has a 6 week window for your game to sell, since very little games have legs. while movies have multiple revenue sources. box office, dvd/bluray, premium channel, cable air, network air. all of these are forms of revenue. typically even your bombs will turn a profit once getting to dvd/bluray sales and rental market. why do you think you see so many movies going straight to dvd?
Still, since the costs of a film go over 100 Million $ regularly, a lot of the blockbusters are very conservative (and lots are sequels too).
 
[Nintex] said:
WTF is wrong with this industry...

Recession proof my ass

IMo the recession is only part of the problem.

Could it be that backing the wrong horse and trying to squeeze in your shooter with the glut of other AAA FPs games is what did it?

Wouldnt it have made more sense to put your game where there are less Hi profile AAA FPS games and to focus on the games quality?

Another casualty.
 
Neo C. said:
Film industry is broken too. :p
At least when it goes to the Blockbuster movies.

IIRC, Square made some full flops before they invented Final Fantasy. Fortunately, 20 years ago a game doesn't cost as much as today.:lol
There's plenty of small studios making low-cost games right now. That doesn't make it any easier for them to secure funding.

Big money games are a big risk, just like blockbuster movies. If you make a profit, or even show that you could potentially make a profit with a future project, you can keep producing. If you release shit that doesn't sell, no one will give you money to make more. That's just business, ain't nothing broken about that.

A broken industry would be something like the current financial industry, where people make a profit by shuffling money around between each other with no real value behind anything.
 
element said:
the movie industry isn't nearly as broken as the game industry. the game industry has a 6 week window for your game to sell, since very little games have legs. while movies have multiple revenue sources. box office, dvd/bluray, premium channel, cable air, network air. all of these are forms of revenue. typically even your bombs will turn a profit once getting to dvd/bluray sales and rental market. why do you think you see so many movies going straight to dvd?
also movies really don't have a resale/used market like video games do. there is the rental market, but studios make pretty good money from that. compared to used, which publisher and developers don't make a dime on.

Don't forget that the movie industry offers variety. In the movie industry I can see historical dramas, anime, documentarys, and foreign live action films with production values at a regular pace. In gaming how many arcade games, 2D games, classic RPG's, and the likes with production values do you see?

I know that this is probably mostly due to the market not being as big as the film but it still is something that annoys me.
 
Zabka said:
There's plenty of small studios making low-cost games right now. That doesn't make it any easier for them to secure funding.
We didn't say it's easier to secure funding, but the risks are lower, they maybe can work at two projects at the same time (more diversity) and the possibility for the next project is higher.
 
jessmo24 said:
IMo the recession is only part of the problem.

A very significant part of the problem, though. It's the difference between struggling to secure funding for your next project and actually having to close up shop.

I'm afraid 2009 is going to be even worse.
 
Tiktaalik said:
I'm sorry but "HD business model" has absolutely nothing to do with this. If look carefully at the reason for why both Free Radical and Factor 5 are having issues it is completely due to issues with their publishers and an inability to get a new publishing agreement, possibly due to a drop in reputation associated with past failures.

Factor 5 is having issues because they decided to work on a Superman title with Brash, and Brash has gone belly up completely due to the fact that the games they were publishing were terrible.

Free Radical had a publishing agreement with Lucasarts, and the EDGE article states pretty clearly that for some reason Lucasarts is cutting back, and a project that Free Radical has been working on for two years is now dead (and since it's a licensed Star Wars title they can't simply switch it to someone else). Free Radical has shut down because they can't find a new project, probably because their last three games have been devastating failures (this includes two last gen titles).

I was let go from my last company because they suffered the exact same issues that these companies are suffering, that they straggled along for months without being able to get a new project or a new publisher. Interestingly, that company did the complete opposite of the "HD Business model", making small XBLA games, PSN games, DS games, PSP games and Wii titles, and yet they had to lay off mass amounts of staff for the exact same reason as Free Radical and Factor 5.

The issue of not being able to get a constant reliable cash flow has always been a problem for independent developers and it's a problem for all businesses. If you boil it down, the root cause of this has nothing to do with whether the game came out on the PS3 and it would be the same if the game came out on the Colecovision. You could point to the fact that if they were making smaller budget games then they wouldn't have spent so much money, but I think this is really a false situation, as evidenced by the example of my idealized small budget company going under.

I later announced that I mis-read the posting. I still support what I typed just not for this certain event or topic. Wrong post wrong thread I guess.

HiResDes said:
y hello thar, Punk or Iga...hmm

Here's a hint. My avatar.
 
The news has been brutal for jobs in the game industry. I really feel bad for people that are losing their jobs. I really hope the economy picks up and everyone can find jobs.
 
Neo C. said:
We didn't say it's easier to secure funding, but the risks are lower, they maybe can work at two projects at the same time (more diversity) and the possibility for the next project is higher.
Lower risk makes it easier to secure funding to branch out and make additional projects. Money has to come from outside sources if you just starting out or aren't producing a significant profit.
 
So this has nothign o do with F5 and free radical Not releasing timesplitters wii exclusive or starwars RS4 on the wii exclusive?

Do you think if they would have did this they would be in the situation they are in?

Odviously somthing is wrong. why is nintendo makign record profits and others arnt?

Why cant we admit that they backed the wrong horse, and that RS4 and TS wii exclusives would have ended there troubles?
 
jessmo24 said:
IMo the recession is only part of the problem.

Could it be that backing the wrong horse and trying to squeeze in your shooter with the glut of other AAA FPs games is what did it?

Wouldnt it have made more sense to put your game where there are less Hi profile AAA FPS games and to focus on the games quality?

Another casualty.

I think its a much bigger problem than simply releasing a shit game or backing the wrong horse. All speculation here, but here goes. When Free Radical lost their contract with Lucasarts they couldn't pay their bills. In the past they then went to a big finance company and got a loan in return for future revenue of their game products. Rates were low, money was cheap, they could get it and move forward. Now, credit is tight and interest rates are high. They may not have been able to get a loan and even if they could the terms might have been unworkable for them.

Factor 5 IMO got it much the same. Of course if their last game was a million seller rather than Haze or Lair they might've been a more attractive vessel for funding, but either way the funding ain't there like it used to be.
 
Well, good luck to those directly affected.

I'll give a friendly nod to them for Second Sight, which made for a unique and entertaining playthrough but was hobbled by being very short and without any replay hooks/extras/trials to compensate.
 
acm2000 said:
NPD first month sales: Timesplitters: Future Perfect (PS2, Xbox, GC) 65,181 (all platforms combined)

That's the first month sales, but I remember quite clearly reading an article on GAF around 6 months after the game came out where it stated respectable sales numbers for the game across all platforms, not as good as TS2, but still good enough.

Bumblebeetuna said:
Opinions are opinions. I think you have bad taste. Oh well.

TS2 might have been "successful" sales wise, maybe not, I don't know or care. AFAIK TS3 was definitely not. If they were that successful, we'd have seen another average TS game already.

The majority of reviewers seem to agree with me, that's 68 reviews for the PS2 version, 40 for the Cube and 50 for the Xbox giving the game an average of over 88%, are you seriously trying to convince people that the majority of those reviewers just have bad taste?

Good luck on that :lol
 
Firewire said:
Here...
http://www.nintendoeverything.com/?p=7392
Personally I've seen one 360 commercial for it, 0 on the PS3 and maybe like 5-7 times for the Wii. I know that's my own experience, but the article states that its being advertised for the Wii.
I remember guessing at this figure in the NPD gamasutra article thread based on a discrepancy in numbers, but do we actually know it is an official number or is this a GAF->blog->GAF thing?
Anyway, the Wii version only seems to have been heavily advertised since the beginning of December so we should wait and see if the Wii version has legs before announcing it a failure.
 
Sad news, but Second Sight was the only game of theirs I really enjoyed (TS2 had a couple of good levels, but I didn't care for the majority of it). I'd also heard rumblings about how they fell out with most of their publishing partners. I understand Eurocom have been hoovering up FRD employees for a while now.

Some sales-age stuff from June '03 (US, LTD):

TS2 (PS2) 218,131
TS2 (XBX) 179,422
TS2 (GCN) 132,540

And one from July '02:

Time Splitters (PS2) 157,262
 
oldergamer said:
This wouldn't surprise me. In this day and age it only takes one bad game to kill most independent studios as it's really difficult to build a war chest of cash when trouble occurs.. As soon as you have the stigma of a poor title, publishers will start to doubt your abilities, thus making it harder to get the next title picked up.

nice going Gaf
 
element said:
Krome is successful
I wouldn't be so sure.

I was at Best Buy yesterday and they were all sold out of controllers except one pink wireless and a couple racks full of the VP:PA bundle.

Wii Play VP:PA is not.
 
Mr. Spinnington said:
THIS IS NOTHING COMPARED TO CLOVER STUDIOS

NOTHING!
Thanks for opening up another old wound on top of this new one. :( As others have said...I really wanted TS4. Hope all the Free Radicals find new homes ASAP.
 
I'm still rather surprised that they went bust. HAZE didn't totally bomb - it was in the top 20 in the UK for around a month. And I don't get this "bad game means no one will publish them again". Whilst HAZE wasn't great, it wasn't dreadful. I would give it a solid 6 which is rather high for an Ubi title these days...
 
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