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[NoblesseOblige]

Wait, what the fuck? On Dr. Who? Never watched the show but I didn't think it had a history of racism.

From "The Hall of Dolls" episode the king can be heard mumbling it. The episode wasn't properly archived so a lot of it is missing or of low quality. 1960's + series with 90% white cast through its history in Britain is definitely going to have some history of racial questions. This is a show that cast white people to play Asian characters as well.

 

[pretty done]

Kinda shocked so many people never heard the original version. You clearly didn't grow up around a bunch of racists!

94 year old racist grandma, never heard it.

This seems more like outrage/offended culture than anything racist, considering most here haven't heard the phrase and it's from multiple decades ago.

 

[Messofanego]

Combine racist rhyme with imagery of a blunt weapon and a complete lack of knowledge of The Walking Dead plot details (and nothing on the shirt itself to let you know it is TWD merch). Now the shirt looks like a promise of violence against black people instead of being a pop culture reference.

And the shirt doesn't seem to make it out explicitly on the front that this is from a TV show. So, threat of violence with a bloodied bat and a rhyme with racist origins, could inspire fear among minorities or be popular among racists.

 

[Rellik]

It's crazy to me how many didn't know this.
I'm black, grew up in the 90's in England and I heard this countless times as a kid.
As soon as I opened the thread, without reading any text, I knew exactly why the complaint had been made.

Yeah this was everywhere in my all white school in the 90s in England. Back then I didn't really realise how bad it was because I was too young to really understand.

 

[cakefoo]

Sure, it's ridiculous, the minister's statements about the objective meaning of the shirt and people wearing it.

That being said, it might be just a nursery rhyme to innocent 4 year old me, but to informed 34-year-old me it's sick to think that someone thought, "Hey, we could teach this racist poem to kids if we change two letters."

 

[Rest]

The only person I ever met who even knew the racist version was a kid from Texas when I was in highschool. We're well past the point when that's a relevant concern. It's now tiger. It will from here forth be tiger. It has for over a generation been tiger. It's tiger.

 

[shandy706]

I had zero clue....and I live in the Southeast US.

My 4 year old uses the form of it "catch a Tiger", to pick between things all the time.

There is a point where some places need to take a stand. The shirt is not a reference to anything racist today. Terms and slang take on different meanings in just 5-10 year periods....let alone 100+-
years.

Edit**

Yeah this was everywhere in my all white school in the 90s in England. Back then I didn't really realise how bad it was because I was too young to really understand.

It's crazy to me how many didn't know this.
I'm black, grew up in the 90's in England and I heard this countless times as a kid.
As soon as I opened the thread, without reading any text, I knew exactly why the complaint had been made.

So is it possible this was "popular"/used negatively a lot in Europe? I've never heard it that way in the US.

 

[fluffydelusions]

Posted?
http://ew.com/tv/2017/02/23/walking.../?xid=entertainment-weekly_socialflow_twitter

 

[stilgar]

A new battle won for tolerance and the unalienable right to dramatize

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Clarkson got done for muttering the original phrase in an unused take from Top Gear years back.

 

[i_am_ben]

I heard the racist version a lot as a kid in Australia.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

Never knew of the racist version.

It'd be nice if, as a culture, we can reclaim stuff like this without the bigoted parts. I'm not saying erase history or sweep it under the rug, but make the conscious choice to make stuff like this our own while rejecting its backwards roots.

 

[M0nochromatic]

I went 20 years without learning of its origins. Which is weird considering where I grew up at.

 

[ChouGoku]

I looked at the shirt before I read the article and I wouldve thought the miny part wouldve been the bad part. I forgot this used to be a racist tune, but it was changed to tiger right?

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

I thought this was a fairly common phrase:

 

[Oersted]

I had zero clue....and I live in the Southeast US.

My 4 year old uses the form of it "catch a Tiger", to pick between things all the time.

There is a point where some places need to take a stand. The shirt is not a reference to anything racist today. Terms and slang take on different meanings in just 5-10 year periods....let alone 100+-
years.

Edit**




So is it possible this was "popular"/used negatively a lot in Europe? I've never heard it that way in the US.

It was one guy from Sheffield who complained. So yeah I guess.

 

[norm9]

From the OP's article-

"It is directly threatening of a racist assault, and if I were black and were faced by a wearer I would know just where I stood.'"

If you're offended by the shirt, fine. If you're not, fine. But speaking for people is always stupid.

 

[Pandaman]

Well, yeah. That's the intent of the article. "Angry black man takes fun thing from white people."

Angry white man.

“It is directly threatening of a racist assault, and if I were black and were faced by a wearer I would know just where I stood.’”

 

[Gin-Shiio]

The German national anthem had two stanzas removed after the nazis has used and misinterpreted it with ill will. We should probably reinstate them, moving back to their original, innocent meaning. Except, we shouldn't, because historical context. And albeit on a smaller scale, this situation is no different.

If you're offended by the shirt, fine. If you're not, fine. But speaking for people is always stupid.

Should he have said it is racist in his opinion? Cause the meaning is the same.

 

[Dirca]

Jeffrey Dean Morgan (Negan) commented on by saying "people are stupid". Suddenly I really like Negan

 

[ArkkAngel007]

Seems like the racist/original version has been long absent (thankfully) in the US. Honestly I think pulling it was ridiculous given it doesn't take much to figure out the context.

 

[RowdyReverb]

Easy fix. Pay somebody to write with a marker, "catch a tiger..." at the bottom of each shirt. Better yet, make a rubber stamp with the addendum

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Jeffrey Dean Morgan (Negan) commented on by saying "people are stupid". Suddenly I really like Negan

White man tells black people how to react to historically racist words/imagery.

 

[TAJ]

I need to stop looking at this thread. If I see one more person call the racist version the "original version" or "origin" then I'm going to have a fucking stroke.

 

[dani_dc]

Had no idea there was a racist version of this.
Seeing as how obscure it is, and how it does not have a negative connotation now a days, seems like it's a bit of an over reaction.

More so, reading about it, it seems there's no indication that the racist version was the original version, just that it was a version of the rhyme.

 

[SatansReverence]

This one needs to go too, disgusting.

Isn't this getting changed to "baa baa rainbow sheep" in some places?

*Fake edit - amazed...*

 

[Fantastical]

I've heard the racist version of this (yay the south!) but I don't think of that at all when I hear that.

 

[wandering]

It seems to be an issue of culture clash; apparently the rhyme clearly still has clear racist connotations in the UK, as opposed to most of the US.

From "The Hall of Dolls" episode the king can be heard mumbling it. The episode wasn't properly archived so a lot of it is missing or of low quality. 1960's + series with 90% white cast through its history in Britain is definitely going to have some history of racial questions. This is a show that cast white people to play Asian characters as well.

Out of all the outdated terms for Chinese people, "Celestial" is by far the coolest.

 

[Yabberwocky]

Combine racist rhyme with imagery of a blunt weapon and a complete lack of knowledge of The Walking Dead plot details (and nothing on the shirt itself to let you know it is TWD merch). Now the shirt looks like a promise of violence against black people instead of being a pop culture reference.

Yeah. For me personally, I know the context is from the TWD, but my friends and family don't watch the show, and in comparison, more of them would be aware of the racist rhyme variation. Depressingly, the racist variation was something that was used pretty casually around the time my parents were kids. I actually hadn't realized how much it was still used comparatively recently until a few comments in this thread, which is horrifying. I can see how the situation with the shirt accidentally came about, but without Negan, or a logo on the front, or even adding the 'tiger' line, yeah, the design is pretty shit.

 

[Deepwater]

I need to stop looking at this thread. If I see one more person call the racist version the "original version" or "origin" then I'm going to have a fucking stroke.

The "nigger" version has roots around the mid 1800s which is the same time as the other reported historical variations of the rhyme.

I don't know why people calling it the "original" version is so pressing to you.

 

[besada]

I grew up hearing the racist version. The version most of you know was very much considered PC before the term PC had been coined. It changed (in Texas, at least) around the mid seventies, about the same time white people stopped using the word in public. And about the same time we all learned that they were really called Brazil nuts.

 

[Lotto]

rip glenn

 

[The One and Done™]

I feel like it's no longer culturally relevant to call it flat out racist. It's been changed into a nursery rhyme for several decades now if not more. More people alive today see it as such rather than its origin.

There are several other rhymes that have racist, stereotypical, and bigotted origins that have been turned into innocent sayings. Oddly enough that's a very American thing to do. Take something that's taboo and turn it into common practice.

 

[D i Z]

I feel like it's no longer culturally relevant to call it flat out racist. It's been changed into a nursery rhyme for several decades now if not more. More people alive today see it as such rather than its origin.

There are several other rhymes that have racist, stereotypical, and bigotted origins that have been turned into innocent sayings. Oddly enough that's a very American thing to do. Take something that's taboo and turn it into common practice.

It has been very relevant in my lifetime. As mentioned earlier in the thread in the UK for instance and some colonies, it wasn't that long ago that the unedited version wasn't exactly uncommon on the playground. I had never even heard of the "tiger" version until the early 90's.

 

[gfxtwin]

You can practically hear the shirt's designer saying "LUL, FUKIN BETA PC CUCKS, LETS SEE HOW DEY LIEK THIS."

 

[StayDead]

I always thought the rhyme was (the one I grew up with)

Eeny Meeny Miney Mo,
Catch a fish, by the tail
If he struggles let him go
Eeny Meeny Miney Mo.

 

[Derwind]

I understand that for many the rhyme and the racism associated with it no longer exist. That and the reference to the show has its own meaning.

However, I feel like we as a society we favour forgetting the past rather than trying to learn from it.

So I wouldnt necessarily be for pulling the Walking Dead shirt, my compromise would be educating people on small factoids like this in schools. Lest we forget. (In this case, how the rhyme often meant sure death/lynching for black folk.)

 

[Dr. Black Jack]

Kinda shocked so many people never heard the original version. You clearly didn't grow up around a bunch of racists!

.

Can't believe the shirt made it to production.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I always thought the rhyme was (the one I grew up with)

Eeny Meeny Miney Mo,
Catch a fish, by the tail
If he struggles let him go
Eeny Meeny Miney Mo.

That's not even a full rhyming scheme lol.

 

[neorej]

White man tells black people how to react to historically racist words/imagery.

Dude is white as fuck, though

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

I wonder how many other rhymes had racist versions. Ugh. Don't wanna think about it.

I understand pulling the shirt. It's incredibly vague in what it is actually referencing and the image of the bloody bat with a quote of a rhyme that famously has a racist version... doesn't give the best impression.

 

[affleck1981]

Yeah this was everywhere in my all white school in the 90s in England. Back then I didn't really realise how bad it was because I was too young to really understand.

Weirdly, in 90s Scotland - at least where I grew up - it was tiger, but pronounced tigger. And this was a primary school where people called you 'Jew' if you picked up money from the ground.

Note - not trying to derail just pointing out my school wasn't some liberal bastion. And obviously I'm aware that's an awful thing to say now - at the time we were about 10 and didn't even know that there were Jewish persons.

 

[DBT85]

Dude is white as fuck, though

And quite possibly grew up with the racist version taught as a kid.