Not really. Is it piracy or bootlegging to share fanart? It's fan-made art based on a Nintendo property but nobody would make the absurd assertion that sharing fan art would be bootlegging or piracy. Why should a game made entirely by a fan from the ground up based on an existing IP be different?
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Project AM2R getting legally slammed by Nintendo; file hosts hit with DMCA notices
- Thread starter Ghost_Messiah
- Start date
Not really. Is it piracy or bootlegging to share fanart? It's fan-made art based on a Nintendo property but nobody would make the absurd assertion that sharing fan art would be bootlegging or piracy. Why should a game made entirely by a fan from the ground up based on an existing IP be different?
There's nothing more political than taking an objective explanation of the law and rewording it to morph into an anti-consumer position, thats for sure.
How is remaking a game that already exists and sold for profit, totally copyrighted, and redistributing it for free, different from fan art? Idk man but something tells me ita not even in the same realm legally speaking lol
EatinOlives
Member
Nintendo: "Someone playing a new Metroid release? And they're having fun?? Fix this. Now"
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
So everyone could play it, good guy Nintendo. <3
SinCityAssassin
Member
And here I thought I was considered a corporate boot licker.
That would have been way worse because then no one could have played it.
StarStabbedMoon
Member
If that's the case, there's no reason for anyone to sympathize with Nintendo's interest in securing their IP, nor defending DMCA and excessively strict copyright laws. It doesn't benefit any of us.
No one should have been surprised this was coming, and it definitely makes sense for Nintendo to do this, that much is true. But the idea that anyone defending this decision is better off now because of it is laughable.
It's hard not to feel like Nintendo is trying to fuck Metroid fans over at this point. You can just think "I wonder what the worst possible thing they can do for the series right now is," and yes, they're doing it. Other M was one misstep, but they ignored the 25th anniversary, went 5 years without even discussing the series, then defied all expectations and hopes by finally revealing a chibi multiplayer spinoff, and now they've celebrated Metroid's 30th anniversary by blocking a highly regarded project that fans have been looking forward to for years. They just don't seem to fucking care at this point.
I would really like to send a cease and desist to the developers of Federation Force.
I would really like to send a cease and desist to the developers of Federation Force.
LambdaTeos
Member
So we should be angry that Nintendo did not kill the project to avoid this guy to have more work to do when he clearly knew he was using official property to create a project that was not authorized by the legal owner of the IP?
I admit, it is dickish, i admit, it looks bad, but nobody forced him to keep doing something he knew was not right, why feel angry?
StrangeRoboMemory
Member
Glad that I quickly grabbed it in time.
If AM2R actually does end up getting hit itself (and not just sites hosting it), one distinct possibility for why they waited is that they were potentially waiting to see if the final product ended up using any official resources (which it seemingly does at a few points) rather than being all original work, whereas a demo would have always had the excuse of stuff being used as placeholder materials.
Well, in a moral sense he wasn't in the wrong to develop this game. He was right every bit as much people are right to make their own fan art of existing Nintendo properties or cover songs.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Word. SEGA took down that Streets of Rage remake right after it came out and it's still all over the place. Once it hits the internet it doesn't matter.
timetokill
Banned
What, for me trying to get clarification as to whether offering to share this infringing content with people on NeoGAF is against the ToS or not? Really?
As a creator I certainly sympathize with securing IP. Those laws are there to protect creators.
I'm not sure where the "better off now" thing is coming from. I never suggested anything with regard to that.
Both the game and fan art of existing properties are free. Also- cover songs and remixes are often distributed for free.
I'm saying that AM2R does nothing to drive people towards other streams of revenue for Nintendo other than being in the same genre of other games that are currently offered up on the E-shop. That's not enough, that's like saying Metroid helps sell castlevania games because they're the same genre. And in a world where Nintendo is not interested in actively developing games in said genre, it's not in their best interest to have people get excited about their IP being used in a method that does not adhere with their current and future projects.
Sure, it COULD. MAYBE. WHO KNOWS. All I know is that, in it's current form, AM2R makes nintendo 0 dollars per unit downloaded, and from a business prospective, that's not good enough.
Now, Nintendo publishing this game and having it be on Nintendo platforms? That would be smart. But if I had to guess, the dev probably never contacted Nintendo for those kinds of plans to be made, probably out of fear of getting shut down, and it is not Nintendo's, as a publisher, responsibility to court fan projects in order to make them profitable, it is the developer's responsibility to make sure they can put their project on the market, free or otherwise, in a legal and safe way. They did not. And that's too bad.
And honestly, if you're big into the Metroid community, I don't know why you've stayed in Nintendo's camp for as long as you have. It's clear they're not making the games that you want. You need to go elsewhere. Nintendo already has.
You gotta know when to get up from the table when all the love has stopped being served - Nina Simone.
Because it's a dick move. Within their right, but...man, that shit stings. Kill it early so the guy can move on to something new.
Yes, we can all play the game. And not worry about the legal action this guy will likely have to face over all of this. As long as we get to play the video game.
TheMoon
Member
Because they're pure evil.
SinCityAssassin
Member
Oh, you mean actually linking it on Neogaf and not asking whether or not the product itself was piracy?
I'd assume no, considering the OT for the fangame does exactly that.
No. Drawing samus and putting it on your DeviantArt is not the same as remaking a metroid game and giving it away. Even then it was really only a problem because it was so heavily floated around the net. He could kept it on the dl and it woulda just been another fan project.
Kor of Memory
Member
Maybe I'm not understanding, but how is this better?
Like, the game is out there. People are playing it and loving it, and super appreciative of the guy that made it.
You know what would have happened if Nintendo C&D'd it before it came out? A hell of a lot less penetration rates and notoriety.
Like, I see this as Nintendo silent form of encouragement/praise. The product was good enough to let it release BEFORE the C&D.
They're pretty much legally obligated to shut it down, but they waited for the product to get into the hands of the internet before they did so, because they know that once it was out there, it was out there forever.
Yes it is. It uses no Nintendo assets- just like fan art, are both based on an existing Nintendo IP, and like fan art or cover music are largely original transformative works.
LambdaTeos
Member
Because we are obviously dealing with a person who has no knowledge at al of how legal things work...
No, pure evil would have been to take it down during the month-long release countdown on the developer's site.
Well now it's out in the open and will be shared infinitely.
Otherwise it would've never seen the light of day.
I prefer the way it is now.
AM2R could reasonably be considered to be a transformative work.
illusionary
Member
Yeah. my thought too - there's no way (surely?) that they couldn't have been aware of the project until now.
Still, with the full release having happened and BitTorrent existing, hopefully the game should remain available, even if only 'underground'.
Because what other companies are doing isn't relevant to the conversation, it loops back into, "man, look at Capcom Nintendo, why can't you just be cool?"
Because being cool doesn't always put money in your pocket. It was in Nintendo's best interest to have Melee at EVO and someone managed to convey that message, it served as a big hopping advertising for an upcoming game that NEEDED to sell big. Now personally, I don't think it's in their best interest to have Melee at evo ANYMORE....but that's another conversation.
Yes. The guy would have moved on to a different project that he probably could have actually sold to people.
TheMoon
Member
Missing the "joke."
Actually, I've made something and then had it taken down by an unjustified DMCA request.
LambdaTeos
Member
But wouldn't modification of an IP without the owner's consent and distribution fall into the illegal realm? i get your point of fan art and remixes, but companies have the right to determine what can they stop and not, if they wanted they could stop remixes due to the illegal modification of an copyrighted product.
DrROBschiz
Member
Anyone tell Nintendo to fuck off yet?
Are Nintendo social and community managers even commenting on this?
Are they even acknowledging the Metroid anniversary?
Are Nintendo social and community managers even commenting on this?
Are they even acknowledging the Metroid anniversary?
Huh. I actually didn't know about that. That's dumb.
Even so, they themselves have set the precedent on how to handle these kinds of situations. It's a shame that Nintendo isn't following.
Oh ok nvm I take it back lol. I stand by what I said.
Starwolf_UK
Member
Well this is one way of getting me to Know Metroid Prime Monster Hunters is coming out soon...and also knowing this project finally finished (or was I thinking another Metroid 2 remake).
Hmm so from that can we take that remaking a Nintendo game as a fangame could gets you slammed with a C&D (Unity Mario 64 HD beingf a recent example though was Splat Fortress 2 also C&D?) but making a fangame entirely of original content is less likely to do so?
Hmm so from that can we take that remaking a Nintendo game as a fangame could gets you slammed with a C&D (Unity Mario 64 HD beingf a recent example though was Splat Fortress 2 also C&D?) but making a fangame entirely of original content is less likely to do so?
timetokill
Banned
Sure, but that was before this fallout started. I'm curious if they're going to be okay with it going forward or not. Not only linking it, but offering to share it publicly on NeoGAF. I'm curious if moderation has a policy on this.
Me too. But I don't think many here are saying this is unjustified, just "uncool."
pm a mod and ask
...proving that argument would be a real fight. I'm not saying I don't agree with you, but I'm not sure I could prove that in a court of law.
DrROBschiz
Member
Well im glad i snagged the file at least
he didnt update it after release right? I should have the final version
he didnt update it after release right? I should have the final version
AdmiralMikey
Member
Actually, by your own logic, due to his appearance in the Sega Superstars Tennis and Sonic & All-Stars Racing games as recently as 2012, Alex Kidd is very much an alive and thriving franchise.
paragonpro
Banned
Nintendo can take federation force and shove it, i understand them shutting this down, but that takes some fucking nerve when you consider how god damn tone def they have been to metroid for years. This guy managed to make a better metroid game than nintendo could in the last 9 years. I really hope some of the higher ups know that and this guys work doesnt go to shit.
The point of the DCMA and how it's used is to prevent the wholesale copying and pasting of content and assets- like a youtube video containing gratuitous use of a movie via clips. Or in the context of a game- a fan game or mod that steals assets from another existing game. In the context of AM2R, I'm not sure if there's legal ground to apply (correctly, morally and legally) a takedown of this game. It's completely transformative while being based on an existing IP and uses no assets from Nintendo itself AFAIK.
No. If it's a transformative work and isn't using assets from nintendo itself there's little if any reasonable ground for this.
Acerac
Banned
You didn't hear? Metroid Federation Force is coming out soon!
Happy Birthday Samus!
TheMoon
Member
They don't have community managers. Their social media accounts don't "comment."
A Link to the Past
Banned
Most people who have an interest in this game have probably owned and played Metroid II quite a bit now; and for those who don't, they aren't made less likely to try it - in fact, I would reckon that their curiosity would get the best of them.
That's still irrational. How is Nintendo doing nothing and possibly getting money due to increased interest in Metroid and Metroidvanias worse than them going out of their way to prevent people from playing this and also pissing off their fans in the process? Potential money is still better than no money.
This argument only works if you assume that Nintendo fans are complete idiots who would be blindly excited for FF if only it wasn't for those pesky fan projects. Additionally, by this logic, Nintendo shouldn't promote the existing Metroid games on the eShop too (including the original Metroid 2) since they also "don't adhere to their future projects".
And honestly, if a one-man indie remake of a GB game is more exciting to people than whatever Nintendo makes with millions of dollars of marketing and development, that's pretty telling.