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Project CARS (crowdsourcing) racing sim by Slightly Mad Studios (fully funded 3.75M)

SMSRenderTeam

Neo Member
Apr 18, 2015
40
0
0
Hi Team, you're right. I'm not a graphics programmer so I like being corrected in every wrong statement. I have already stated several times that I'm comparing the version that was shown a few days ago in gamersyde. But I'm using a not final PC version too. I'm not wrote numbers in my shadow comparisson, that's a fact. Another one, for given resolution in a cascade shadow you can change the radius size for the second step of the shadow map where effective shadow resolution will be halved. It's evident PS4 shadow map resolution matchs medium PC settings because in the center of the shadow map your car shadow match those settings, but moving a few meters from the car, the shadow map effective resolution is in line with low settings. The balcony in the right has a shadow with 5 edges in pc lower shadows, 5 edges in PS4 shadows and 9 edges in pc medium shadows

The differences in "edges" as you call them has nothing to do with resolution whatsoever. The edge artefacts you highlight are more generally known as Shadow acne which are a direct result of shadow bias settings with the differences being due to different settings.PS4 uses a higher precision map but at the same resolution as PC medium, so the bias settings are slightly different. It's pretty pointless trying to continually correct you since you're interpeting images without the knowledge set to describe what you are seeing. FWIW We'd much rather spend time here giving the community more technical details and answering some of your questions, rather than battling over myopic rendering comparisons...
 

JamboGT

Member
Jan 10, 2013
1,551
0
0
The only thing that matters really is the handling and, well the framerate as well. Other thanthat I don't really mind.
 

desertsession

Member
Nov 19, 2014
128
0
0
Hull
The PS4 digital pre-order page for the game is titled 'Project CARS Pre-Order Edition'.

Will it be titled the same once the game is released or will the it just show up as 'Project CARS'?
 

danowat

Banned
Aug 30, 2014
13,908
554
665
FWIW We'd much rather spend time here giving the community more technical details and answering some of your questions, rather than battling over myopic rendering comparisons...

Is the AF and screen tearing something that is likely to be improved through patches through the life of the game?

Does the xbox one also have 2x AF?
 

SneakyStephan

Banned
Jan 23, 2011
18,399
0
0
Saw this in a thread a few days back and it's relevant here

http://i.imgur.com/SdtXOUL.png

Nothing wrong with people wanting to compare multiplatform games on each platform.
And where are all you gfx don't matter guys in the driveclub threads, if anyone dares to say they'd have preferred driveclub to be 60 fps they get attacked viciously for it.

It's a good thing that SMS cut the graphics down enough to get 60 fps on consoles so the gameplay does not suffer, but that doesn't mean you can't look for what sacrifices had to be made or compare the different versions.
 

eso76

Member
Jun 25, 2004
14,913
67
1,615
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Didn't SMS say console versions AF had been upgraded to 8x or something like that ?
Isn't this the same old AF PS4 bug (or whatever it is) ?

Myself I would be interested in learning more about car models themselves.
How Pc and consoles compare in that regard, what's the polycount, how different lods are used.
Whether or not the PC version has options to enable full LOD for every car on the track, whether or not the LOD depends on the # of cars in a race etc.
 
Feb 18, 2013
6,568
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Scotland
I don't give a damn about the graphical pissing contests, it's meaningless.

But the release of this game cannot come soon enough for me, the more I see the better it looks.
 

Mascot

Member
Aug 9, 2009
13,181
4
940
UK
Don't worry, I'm used to. There will always be people who are offended in any comparison regardless the input precision. You can never win. Devs want their money, loyal brand fans want their better graphics version for multiplatforms and their better gameplay core for their exclusives. Every fucking time the numbers don't match their preconceived situation anyone else is a troll or has an incorrect point of view.

That's not what's happening here though. You are dressing up your own graphical analysis as fact, causing a member of the SMS render team - a person armed with the ACTUAL facts - to continually correct most of your statements. It's misleading and irresponsible.
 

Bliman

Banned
Nov 2, 2014
95
5
210
Maybe it would be more interesting if we hear from the devs what the differences are between the PS4 and Xbox One version.
I have a Xbox One but all I hear in this thread is about the PS4 version and to be honest it is slightly worrisome (must not feeling good for the Wii u fans).
Are there any things different between the PS4 and Xbox One besides resolution ?
We know the Pc version normally can always outpace the console version and if not we throw more power in the PC and voila.
Oh and since devs are visiting this thread , I would like to congratulate them because I have been following this sim from the first time I heard about it and it really sets fire to my racing heart, so thanks to all the team and I wish them all the best.
Regards
Manuel
 

Scaramanger

Member
Oct 20, 2013
630
0
395
UK
We'll all enjoy the game, AF or not, but I don't think that should preclude us from discussing the technical details of the game on different systems, I think discussions of technical details are important.

I don't think anyone is being disrespectful or abusive about this, it should be possible to discuss it without people running for the hills.

I don't know why people get so sensitive and guarded about games.

Don't get me wrong I have no issues with people discussing it but it personally bores me to tears, hence why I'm more excited about discussions when they focus back on to the game/gameplay.

Hell I can barely tell the difference between low and ultra settings when racing in this game, I guess I'm just not very sensitive to it.
 

danowat

Banned
Aug 30, 2014
13,908
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665
How does the game handle liveries?, are there selectable liveries for each race car?, can we change the colour of road going models?, do road going models have race liveries available?
 

Mascot

Member
Aug 9, 2009
13,181
4
940
UK
Are there any things different between the PS4 and Xbox One besides resolution ?

I did notice in the two-hour Bandai Namco Xbox stream from Tuesday (with that annoying Benny character - kudos to Lee from BN for not punching him in the face. The man has the patience of a saint) that the Xbone grid maxed out at 39 cars. I think it was in the early forties on PS4 in the VVV videos..?

How does the game handle liveries?, are there selectable liveries for each race car?, can we change the colour of road going models?, do road going models have race liveries available?

The Xbox stream I mention above is worth a watch (there are links from a couple of days ago in this thread). In amongst all the shit driving were some nuggets of information. You can select different liveries, and there was some brief mention about decal design but it wasn't as detailed as Forza.
 

SneakyStephan

Banned
Jan 23, 2011
18,399
0
0
That's not what's happening here though. You are dressing up your own graphical analysis as fact, causing a member of the SMS render team - a person armed with the ACTUAL facts - to continually correct most of your statements. It's misleading and irresponsible.

Actually from the last post of the sms guy it sounds like he's been using some clever phrasing (shadow res vs precision) to make the settings sound equal when maldo pointed out that visually they're not

That nasty shadow stepping is not nearly as bad on the medium setting.

Maldo has also been pretty objective and accepting corrections while the SMS guy just turned downright nasty and passive agressive in his last post.
 

_machine

Member
Oct 12, 2011
2,974
0
0
Germany
How does the game handle liveries?, are there selectable liveries for each race car?, can we change the colour of road going models?, do road going models have race liveries available?
Yeah you can select liveries for all race cars, and most road cars have a variety of solid colors (according to the manufacturers colors) with a few racing livery varieties. I haven't tested how they work in the Career though, but in other modes all liveries are unlocked from the start and there quite a few for all cars. For PC you can also create or download your own.
 

danowat

Banned
Aug 30, 2014
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The Xbox stream I mention above is worth a watch (there are links from a couple of days ago in this thread). In amongst all the shit driving were some nuggets of information. You can select different liveries, and there was some brief mention about decal design but it wasn't as detailed as Forza.

Excellent, I'll have a look, any chance you remember roughly where it was, not sure I can handle sitting through 2hrs of that annoying pewdiepie wannabee.........
 

JamboGT

Member
Jan 10, 2013
1,551
0
0
I did notice in the two-hour Bandai Namco Xbox stream from Tuesday (with that annoying Benny character - kudos to Lee from BN for not punching him in the face. The man has the patience of a saint) that the Xbone grid maxed out at 39 cars. I think it was in the early forties on PS4 in the VVV videos..?



The Xbox stream I mention above is worth a watch (there are links from a couple of days ago in this thread). In amongst all the shit driving were some nuggets of information. You can select different liveries, and there was some brief mention about decal design but it wasn't as detailed as Forza.

I think the number of cars on track is track dependent, similar to Assetto Corsa where it is limited by the number of pit stalls.
 

Mascot

Member
Aug 9, 2009
13,181
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UK
I think the number of cars on track is track dependent, similar to Assetto Corsa where it is limited by the number of pit stalls.

Aha, that would make sense. I seem to remember the 39 limit happening a couple of times, but it might have been on the same track.

Excellent, I'll have a look, any chance you remember roughly where it was, not sure I can handle sitting through 2hrs of that annoying pewdiepie wannabee.........

Ooh.. maybe 2/3 of the way through from memory? Could be wrong though!
 

Alex Riveiro

Member
Jan 15, 2014
377
0
320
How does the game handle liveries?, are there selectable liveries for each race car?, can we change the colour of road going models?, do road going models have race liveries available?

All cars have different liveries. Road models have standard liveries as far as I remember, though (although some of them may have race liveries, I honestly can't say for sure because I rarely change whatever livery the game assigns me when picking a car).

There are also custom liveries, so I'm sure at some point (if there aren't already available out there) you'll find race liveries for road cars!

I did notice in the two-hour Bandai Namco Xbox stream from Tuesday (with that annoying Benny character - kudos to Lee from BN for not punching him in the face. The man has the patience of a saint) that the Xbone grid maxed out at 39 cars. I think it was in the early forties on PS4 in the VVV videos..?

Was it in the same track? I don't know much about the console versions, so maybe they have different grid sizes for the same track, but on PC the max grid changes per circuit.
 

Azzawon

Member
May 19, 2014
1,746
0
0
Scunthorpe, UK
I'm intrigued to know the difference between the two console versions as I'll be playing on XB1 myself, but when presumptions knock this game down it bothers me a little. I'd rather just wait it out to hear an official word from SMS or see the differences when Digital Foundry actually get their hands on final code to compare the different versions. Until then, let's enjoy the build up to release date.
 

JamboGT

Member
Jan 10, 2013
1,551
0
0
Aha, that would make sense. I seem to remember the 39 limit happening a couple of times, but it might have been on the same track.



Ooh.. maybe 2/3 of the way through from memory? Could be wrong though!

I could also be wrong about the car limit thing but I am sure I saw the same thing happen on a PS4 video and on PC at some point.
 

MaLDo

Member
Jun 4, 2009
3,613
1
780
Barcelona
maldotex.blogspot.com
The differences in "edges" as you call them has nothing to do with resolution whatsoever. The edge artefacts you highlight are more generally known as Shadow acne which are a direct result of shadow bias settings with the differences being due to different settings.PS4 uses a higher precision map but at the same resolution as PC medium, so the bias settings are slightly different. It's pretty pointless trying to continually correct you since you're interpeting images without the knowledge set to describe what you are seeing. FWIW We'd much rather spend time here giving the community more technical details and answering some of your questions, rather than battling over myopic rendering comparisons...


So what you are saying is I am a myopic seeing those differences because those differences have a specific platform differences explanation. So the differences are there, right? But you need to say is a problem with shadow bias. Because you're not saying my screenshots were fabricated or incorrect.

I want to note that I didn't put any explanation to those differences, only sharing screenshots while you don't put any screenshot, only sharing explanations. I'm ok with this from my shortsighted's seat.


Same shadow quality but different bias between pc medium shadows and ps4 shadows

 

Mascot

Member
Aug 9, 2009
13,181
4
940
UK
Until then, let's enjoy the build up to release date.

Absolutely. Discussion has been heated but civil up to now, and it's all been interesting. Let's keep it that way.

I've booked the day off work on the 8th. Haven't done that for many a year.

Who is doing the OT, by the way?
 

Megasoum

Banned
Aug 27, 2009
20,141
0
0
Montréal
I think the number of cars on track is track dependent, similar to Assetto Corsa where it is limited by the number of pit stalls.

Aha, that would make sense. I seem to remember the 39 limit happening a couple of times, but it might have been on the same track.

Yup, it's track dependant. If you want a full grid, you gotta go to Le Mans! (and maybe other tracks too...but I know La Sarthe supports the max).
 

danowat

Banned
Aug 30, 2014
13,908
554
665
Yeah you can select liveries for all race cars, and most road cars have a variety of solid colors (according to the manufacturers colors) with a few racing livery varieties. I haven't tested how they work in the Career though, but in other modes all liveries are unlocked from the start and there quite a few for all cars. For PC you can also create or download your own.

That's great, thanks.

Am I right in thinking the digital version comes out (in the UK) a day earlier than the retail version?, 7th vs 8th?
 

Mascot

Member
Aug 9, 2009
13,181
4
940
UK
That's great, thanks.

Am I right in thinking the digital version comes out (in the UK) a day earlier than the retail version?, 7th vs 8th?

Add to this, does the standard digital version also include the 3 pre-order cars AND the five LE cars?

I'm still confused over what offers what from where.
 

Azzawon

Member
May 19, 2014
1,746
0
0
Scunthorpe, UK
Am I right in thinking the digital version comes out (in the UK) a day earlier than the retail version?, 7th vs 8th?

On the Xbox Store for me it does say the release date is 07/05/2015, so fingers crossed if so! Who needs physical releases?! ;)

Add to this, does the standard digital version also include the 3 pre-order cars AND the five LE cars?

I'm still confused over what offers what from where.

It also includes the preorder bonuses and the Limited Edition upgrade on the Xbox Store. I checked the PS Store and there's no mention of the LE cars surprisingly, but I would assume that they're in.
 

danowat

Banned
Aug 30, 2014
13,908
554
665
Add to this, does the standard digital version also include the 3 pre-order cars AND the five LE cars?

I'm still confused over what offers what from where.

Just pre-ordered the digi version myself for PS4, and yes, it does include the preorder cars AND five LE cars.

 

JamboGT

Member
Jan 10, 2013
1,551
0
0
I had this issue with the PS pre-order, it didn't state that it had all the cars on the description in the store but on the Project Cars site it stared they did so I went ahead with it.

Ended up having both the LE and pre-order packs so safe to go ahead with that.
 

Mascot

Member
Aug 9, 2009
13,181
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940
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That's great to hear - I'm tempted to go digital now for the extra £5 and to get it a day early.

One last question about the five LE cars (the BMW M1 Procar, Mercedes C-Coupe DTM, McLaren F1, 1967 Ford Mk IV and Sauber C9): are these ONLY available in the LE, ie it's not just different liveries for existing cars? And will they be available to download later (I'm guessing probably so)?
 

danowat

Banned
Aug 30, 2014
13,908
554
665
That's great to hear - I'm tempted to go digital now for the extra £5 and to get it a day early.

One last question about the five LE cars: are these ONLY available in the LE, ie it's not just different liveries for existing cars? And will they be available to download later (I'm guessing probably so)?

If you get your PSN credit from somewhere like CDkeys, especially using their 5% FB discount, it works out at about £36............

Is there a link to the Xbox stream? Interested to see what its like.


http://www.twitch.tv/xbox/b/654253739
 

SMSRenderTeam

Neo Member
Apr 18, 2015
40
0
0
Is the AF and screen tearing something that is likely to be improved through patches through the life of the game?

Does the xbox one also have 2x AF?

Sorry but the render team are currently far too busy sipping champagne on a beach in the Bahamas to contemplate making any further improvements ...

Just kidding ;)

So ... Anisotropic Filtering.

Everyone loves a good AF debate, right?!

I think the key piece of knowledge that is missing in the various analysis about the track anisotropy is that they all consider the track to be a single textured piece of geometry.

This is not the case - the track is rendered in three passes:

1. The base track layer e.g. The Tarmac!
2. The road markings e.g. White lines
3. Dirt layer / tyre marks

And since they are separate passes it's possible for each layer to have different Anisotropy settings - 4x, 4x, 2x respectively, with white lines being up'd to 8x subsequently.
 

dragonfart28

Banned
Jun 12, 2009
5,070
720
1,080
Yeah, I don't get what's disappointing about the console looks. I think they did a fantastic job with the limited hardware and I won't be looking for that kinda stuff in the middle of a race anyway. Can't think of a single racing game that looked equally good AND delivered everything else like pCARS is supposed to. Looks better on a $1.500 machine? Shocking news.
Now let's just hope the framerate is solid all the time and have some fun.

I think it looks good on PS4/Xbone, but $1,500.00 is not accurate.

You could get better results and performance on a $500 machine.
 

Mascot

Member
Aug 9, 2009
13,181
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If you get your PSN credit from somewhere like CDkeys, especially using their 5% FB discount, it works out at about £36............

That's a bloody good point - I nabbed a couple of those last week. I used one for PS+ so might have enough credit left for pCARS. What's the betting I'm a few pence short..?
 

TJP

Member
Aug 8, 2011
3,389
2
680
That's a bloody good point - I nabbed a couple of those last week. I used one for PS+ so might have enough credit left for pCARS. What's the betting I'm a few pence short..?
So no mega PC build?
 

Bobnob

Member
Jun 8, 2013
1,143
119
600
With all the pics Maldo's posting, i'm still struggling to see the differences.

And to be honest i'd rather someone would tell me that there's no serious gameplay bugs and that the handling model has'nt been dumbed down for console's in any way.

From the xbox stream i thought when the car turned left or right it jolted as if there was no suspension it was weird and like something i'd seen in early builds on pc yt.

It could also be down to them using stock tune's.
 

danowat

Banned
Aug 30, 2014
13,908
554
665
Sorry but the render team are currently far too busy sipping champagne on a beach in the Bahamas to contemplate making any further improvements ...

Just kidding ;)

So ... Anisotropic Filtering.

Everyone loves a good AF debate, right?!

I think the key piece of knowledge that is missing in the various analysis about the track anisotropy is that they all consider the track to be a single textured piece of geometry.

This is not the case - the track is rendered in three passes:

1. The base track layer e.g. The Tarmac!
2. The road markings e.g. White lines
3. Dirt layer / tyre marks

And since they are separate passes it's possible for each layer to have different Anisotropy settings - 4x, 4x, 2x respectively, with white lines being up'd to 8x subsequently.

Thanks for the explanation, much appreciated.

It could also be down to them using stock tune's.

I think it's more to do with people lacking finesse when driving with a controller.

Currently listening through the Xbox one stream, and twice now they've mentioned that oval racing and stock cars are included at launch, is this correct?, I don't remember seeing anything about them being available at release.
 

Solal

Member
Dec 19, 2009
927
0
740
SMSRenderTeam-> Tx for your inputs... I think the game looks fantastic and already preordered it... but I am really worried about the framerate, that is, to me, the most important thing in a racing game.

Can you please tell us how well the game runs on consoles please? We saw that Turn10 obviously put framerate above every other graphic stuff... is it the same at SMS or do you feel at ease with some fr dips here and there if it allows the game to look spectacularly more beautiful?

In a nutshell: will we have a perfect 60fps all the time, no matter what ?

And are the gameplay and physics engine dumbed down on consoles or can we expect the same level of realism and complexity as PC versions?

Tx in avance for your game and for your communication with the fans.
 

MaLDo

Member
Jun 4, 2009
3,613
1
780
Barcelona
maldotex.blogspot.com
With all the pics Maldo's posting, i'm still struggling to see the differences.

And to be honest i'd rather someone would tell me that there's no serious gameplay bugs and that the handling model has'nt been dumbed down for console's in any way.


I will tell you a secret. The goal of these comparisons not need to be seen as the downplay a version over another.

The sincerity of some people confirming they need an effort to see differences should be used to put your feet on the ground before activating or increase graphics options in the version of the game that allows you to do it.

Playing PC version in the compared track/wheather wtih those values that produce a graphic quality similar to what was shown of the PS4 version results in framerates between 150 and 180 fps in my setup while putting every option to the max possible value results in framerates in the 40-45 range. That serves to put into perspective how much performance is spent in the final tuning of every option and that you don't need a megapower pc to run the game with more than good visuals.
 

Bobnob

Member
Jun 8, 2013
1,143
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600
I will tell you a secret. The goal of these comparisons not need to be seen as the downplay a version over another.

The sincerity of some people confirming they need an effort to see differences should be used to put your feet on the ground before activating or increase graphics options in the version of the game that allows you to do it.

Playing PC version in the compared track/wheather wtih those values that produce a graphic quality similar to what was shown of the PS4 version results in framerates between 150 and 180 fps in my setup while putting every option to the max possible value results in framerates in the 40-45 range. That serves to put into perspective how much performance is spent in the final tuning of every option and that you don't need a megapower pc to run the game with more than good visuals.
You've lost me pal :)
 

Alex Riveiro

Member
Jan 15, 2014
377
0
320
Sorry but the render team are currently far too busy sipping champagne on a beach in the Bahamas to contemplate making any further improvements ...

Just kidding ;)

So ... Anisotropic Filtering.

Everyone loves a good AF debate, right?!

I think the key piece of knowledge that is missing in the various analysis about the track anisotropy is that they all consider the track to be a single textured piece of geometry.

This is not the case - the track is rendered in three passes:

1. The base track layer e.g. The Tarmac!
2. The road markings e.g. White lines
3. Dirt layer / tyre marks

And since they are separate passes it's possible for each layer to have different Anisotropy settings - 4x, 4x, 2x respectively, with white lines being up'd to 8x subsequently.

Hah, you've just reminded me of Zolder, where, for whatever reason, when arriving to Turn 8, there'd be no white lines past it, but as soon as you reached, they'd suddenly pop in out of nowhere.
 

saladine1

Junior Member
Oct 22, 2007
5,625
1
1,120
thelollyjaraustralia.com.au
So to clarify, AF is equal to the amount of Vram plus DDR5 but only if AA is pointed at 60fps minus the teraflops..right?

Man, I wish I knew what all these graphical terms meant so I could join in the fun!

Anyway, PC build finished. Passing the time with DiRT Rally (which is amazing btw) until CARS lands in my hands.
Can't fucking wait!
 

Alex Riveiro

Member
Jan 15, 2014
377
0
320
So to clarify, AF is equal to the amount of Vram plus DDR5 but only if AA is pointed at 60fps minus the teraflops..right?
Eh, uh...



In all seriousness though. I wish people outside WMD could see how the full process of developing the game has gone. Especially in the graphics department. It was impressive.
 

TJP

Member
Aug 8, 2011
3,389
2
680
When VR lands, matey..!
Good man ;)

You can't go wrong with the PC or PS4 version of PCARS.

I played Mortal Kombat on the PS4 today (actually, I watched my character get thrashed by my nephew) and it looked rather tasty on a Panasonic plasma; I can only imagine the PS4 version of CARS will be a visual treat too.

I find the PC versus console stuff interesting to a point but don't care - the gameplay will be the same so we all win no matter what. PC digital version already to go from GMG ;)
 

Hedrush

Member
Nov 8, 2013
1,642
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415
The game looks great. I really don't know what I'm supposed to be looking for in all these pics with red arrows. I'm just a gamer who wants to play the game.