Support NeoGAF

[Waddle Dee]

The 3 gameplay types?

Very doubtful. The Boom TV show is getting relatively low ratings and there aren't many new pieces of Boom merchandise being produced. I think the Boom sub-series is going to end in a year or two. It's dying a slow death.

 

[righthandmouse]

all I saw was a sonic going in a straight line.

 

[munchie64]

Looks awesome. Hopefully, they continue to refine the gameplay. Colors and Generations were quite good, but I'd love for them to reach something great.

 

[HoodWinked]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgmXmyKtZOM

the sheer amount of camera shake makes me realize they have no clue what the fuck they are even doing.

blind pathing by putting segments of uphill. yes i realize that for the first hill they're doing it for visual impact as you break seeing the robot is cool but it happens again with turns that don't do a good job of getting the camera ahead of it.

obstructing camera with explosions, hopefully its just for the teaser since during optimization these alphas will tank the framerate (btw this gif is actually 2 separate segments that this occurs)

if you're making a game about speed the one thing you MUST do is give as much possible information to the player as you possibly can so they can figure out how they need to react.

this is coming from someone who liked the sonic games back during the dreamcast games i even collected all the emblems in SA1 and SA2 which required A ranking every stage to unlock the green hill stage.

 

[squall23]

I very much enjoyed Heroes. Curious to see how this will turn out.

 

[Arc Christelle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgmXmyKtZOM

the sheer amount of camera shake makes me realize they have no clue what the fuck they are even doing.

blind pathing by putting segments of uphill. yes i realize that for the first hill they're doing it for visual impact as you break seeing the robot is cool but it happens again with turns that don't do a good job of getting the camera ahead of it.

obstructing camera with explosions, hopefully its just for the teaser since during optimization these alphas will tank the framerate (btw this gif is actually 2 separate segments that this occurs)

if you're making a game about speed the one thing you MUST do is give as much possible information to the player as you possibly can so they can figure out how they need to react.

this is coming from someone who liked the sonic games back during the dreamcast games i even collected all the emblems in SA1 and SA2 which required A ranking every stage to unlock the green hill stage.

Relax, it's a spectacle segway into an a short action corridor, that's slow-paced as fuck due to speed control in the form of the white wisps. Not to mention those explosions gonna erase the information you before you as you past them anyway.

I just hope the platforming isn't Colors bad since this is REALLY teetering on Colors design instead of Unleashed/Generations style.

 

[Hitlersaurus Christ]

People talk about what Sonic is or isn't, but they forget one thing: Sonic is a character, not a gameplay style. Sonic was specifically designed as a "cool" mascot character that runs fast, and that's how he's always been sold. Sonic merchandise and tie-ins have been around since around the time the game launched. Were kids in the 90s drawn to Sonic for momentum or "speed as a reward?" Maybe some of them, but that's not what attracted most people. Some people became fans because of the cartoons, the comics, or just the novelty of going fast. Sonic had attitude. Sonic did what Mario didn't. That opening animation to Sonic CD? THAT was Sonic. And that's what Sega has always tried to embrace, for better or for worse.

The classic, momentum-based formula is great, and it's what those games should aim for. But that's not the only way you can 'do' Sonic. The newer games aren't trying to be the older games, and they don't have to. Sonic Unleashed's gameplay is as much a valid take on Sonic as Sonic 3, Sonic Spinball, Sonic Adventure, or Sonic Rush. "F-Zero Sonic" isn't trying to be Sonic 3, it's trying to be Sonic CD intro Sonic. And that's OK.

 

[LordKano]

http://www.tssznews.com/2017/03/18/...-game-not-as-dark-as-it-seems-tails-also-npc/
Tails confirmed to be a NPC too, I suppose we will play only Sonic for the whole game. Also, as always there will be score rankings at the end of each level.

 

[TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared]

Cool. I'll definitely buy that on the Switch also.

 

[Bucket-o-roadkill]

Linear to say the least, my god. Flash backs of that awful 7 secret rings trash on the wii.

 

[Ferr986]

Linear to say the least, my god. Flash backs of that awful 7 secret rings trash on the wii.

How can you have flashbacks of Secret Rings and not the games this one is actually based? (Colors and Generations).

 

[Team Andromeda]

Linear to say the least, my god.

Of course it is, its Sonic . When I read stuff like that, it's like you've never played the classic Sonic, which were all so linear and lacked any of the depth of Mario III, never mind the perfection of Mario IV.

But that's why I liked Sonic it was fun easy to pick and play and full of action and as long as the Team build on the good stuff they did with Gen and Colors I'm happy.

 

[bman94]

I'll place my bet of the third style being similar to Sonic Lost World with a more refined parkour system. For those saying Adventure style, can you imagine how awful that shit would be in the Hedgehog engine? Sonic controlled perfectly in Adventure 2 but that would not translate well at all with the twitchy control of the Hedgehog engine.

 

[AAMARMO]

Why are people saying the 3rd gameplay is boom style? I got a feeling it's going to be lost world style.

 

[Hitlersaurus Christ]

I'm telling you guys, it's gonna be controlling Robotnik or his robots. You play as both "forces"

 

[Bulbasaur]

To me, this looks like every other 3D Sonic but with more Michael Bay. I still hope it pleases the fans though.

 

[clav]

this is coming from someone who liked the sonic games back during the dreamcast games i even collected all the emblems in SA1 and SA2 which required A ranking every stage to unlock the green hill stage.

GIF where a bunch of enemies line up, and Sonic uses dash to win.

Poof.

All that work to animate + craft enemies gone in a blink.

 

[RecRoulette]

The 3 gameplay types?

Hell yeah, keep the dream alive.

Edit: Also someone needs to finish this Animorphs cover.

 

[Solid SOAP]

Of course it is, its Sonic . When I read stuff like that, it's like you've never played the classic Sonic, which were all so linear and lacked any of the depth of Mario III, never mind the perfection of Mario IV.

But that's why I liked Sonic it was fun easy to pick and play and full of action and as long as the Team build on the good stuff they did with Gen and Colors I'm happy.

Are you tryna say that Sonic 2 and 3's levels were more linear than Mario levels? They were fucking huge, my dude

 

[higemaru]

*20 second teaser that looks like the good Sonic games*

"Wow how could they fuck up Sonic so bad again"

It looks fine from the extremely brief gameplay we saw. The Unleashed style of gameplay they have is just like a fun rollercoaster so it'd be pretty difficult to screw it up. Now the other types of gameplay...

 

[hotcyder]

Pretty much;

I want a new sonic game that looks as cool as this

but doesn't control like an arse on an ice rink

 

[Maztorre]

Of course it is, its Sonic . When I read stuff like that, it's like you've never played the classic Sonic, which were all so linear and lacked any of the depth of Mario III, never mind the perfection of Mario IV.

But that's why I liked Sonic it was fun easy to pick and play and full of action and as long as the Team build on the good stuff they did with Gen and Colors I'm happy.

Claiming classic Sonic level design is either linear or shallow is some bullshit. The series was famed for offering deep, multi-layered level design, especially as it progressed and started building more rewards for exploration into the level design.

Putting this new game out alongside Mania continues to demonstrate that Sega still haven't a clue what they're doing with this franchise internally, while the (external) Mania devs have nailed the aesthetics, music and gameplay perfectly. I realise that there is some segment of Sonic fans with Stockholm syndrome, who are invested in these largely linear games that have extremely hand-holdy mechanics like brain-dead homing attacks and on-demand invincibility, but these people will buy literally any Sonic game on release anyway. It does the franchise no good to actually perpetuate this divide between "Classic"/"Modern" Sonic when it just entrenches that elements of gameplay/characterisation are completely offputting to the series' own fans. They should be addressing the problem of unappealing characterisation by actually creating an appealing cast/gameplay/locations, not creating multiple versions of the same characters. Imagine if Nintendo maintained the 3DO Mario/Zelda characterisations in the mainline games because they felt they were held hostage by lunatic fans of those games. That's exactly what Sega continue to do.

 

[Sanjuro]

Can't say this looks very good or even interesting at this point.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Claiming classic Sonic level design is either linear or shallow is some bullshit. The series was famed for offering deep, multi-layered level design, especially as it progressed and started building more rewards for exploration into the level design.

Please... one could finish Sonic and Sonic II in one go in one sitting . There was never any real depth to those games Started to change with Sonic CD and Sonic III.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Are you tryna say that Sonic 2 and 3's levels were more linear than Mario levels? They were fucking huge, my dude

Yes for Sonic 1 and II . Games that were very linear, very easy to finish and with little depth and the joke was 'Hold right on the joypad to play the games'.Not really fair but Sonic 1 and II were not deep games at all and that was part of the games charm and appeal in that all age groups could pick up and play Sonic or Sonic II and do well.

Granted that started to change with Sonic CD

 

[Sanjuro]

Please... one could finish Sonic and Sonic II in one go in one sitting . There was never any real depth to those games Started to change with Sonic CD and Sonic III.

Sonic 3 marked the decline in the series for myself.

 

[Nepenthe]

Putting this new game out alongside Mania continues to demonstrate that Sega still haven't a clue what they're doing with this franchise internally, while the (external) Mania devs have nailed the aesthetics, music and gameplay perfectly.

They've nailed the aesthetics, music, and gameplay of a subset of the franchise that was both perfected around 23 years ago and is technologically archaic. It's a nice bone to Classic fans but it's not a viable long-term strategy for the franchise's development and potential to grow in 3D, not with Mario running circles around both titles with Odyssey anyway.

I realise that there is some segment of Sonic fans with Stockholm syndrome, who are invested in these largely linear games that have extremely hand-holdy mechanics like brain-dead homing attacks and on-demand invincibility, but these people will buy literally any Sonic game on release anyway.

Ignoring sliding sales of platformers in general as well as the ability to criticize what one has bought, this kind of pompous self-righteousness and elitism over people's buying habits is the majority of the reason the Sonic fanbase is garbage, and I'm including Christian fan art in that equation.

It does the franchise no good to actually perpetuate this divide between "Classic"/"Modern" Sonic when it just entrenches that elements of gameplay/characterisation are completely offputting to the series' own fans. They should be addressing the problem of unappealing characterisation by actually creating an appealing cast/gameplay/locations, not creating multiple versions of the same characters. Imagine if Nintendo maintained the 3DO Mario/Zelda characterisations in the mainline games because they felt they were held hostage by lunatic fans of those games. That's exactly what Sega continue to do.

Considering we just had Lost World, Sega writing the fanbase-originating division into canon doesn't technically prevent either side of the franchise from changing (although looking at Mania, Classic Sonic is far more resistant to change than Modern is), so the idea that bad ideas are somehow more entrenched than they already are doesn't seem convincing.

The issue with it is that it assumes that the properties of both sides are incompatible and thus warrant the division. It assumes we can't have more classic-inspired physics alongside blistering speed, for example, and in general I wager it's the reason people are insistent on not even entertaining the idea that Modern Sonic can stand to trade in a bit of speed for tighter control, because Sega themselves is saying that they're two different things that can't ever cross-pollinate.

Also, I've been begging for better characterization forever, but I've mainly been met with dumb shit like "Why should I care about writing in a franchise with a cartoony hedgehogs?" like these niggas don't also see and cry over every dumb Disney and Pixar film opening day, so I've given up on getting anything that isn't the cringey, fourth wall shit from Colors.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgmXmyKtZOM

the sheer amount of camera shake makes me realize they have no clue what the fuck they are even doing.

blind pathing by putting segments of uphill. yes i realize that for the first hill they're doing it for visual impact as you break seeing the robot is cool but it happens again with turns that don't do a good job of getting the camera ahead of it.

obstructing camera with explosions, hopefully its just for the teaser since during optimization these alphas will tank the framerate (btw this gif is actually 2 separate segments that this occurs)

if you're making a game about speed the one thing you MUST do is give as much possible information to the player as you possibly can so they can figure out how they need to react.

this is coming from someone who liked the sonic games back during the dreamcast games i even collected all the emblems in SA1 and SA2 which required A ranking every stage to unlock the green hill stage.

This really looks like you're stretching to find something to complain about. If the player was actually in danger during this segment, sure, but they aren't, so... the worst that's going to happen is that you rub against a wall for a little bit. There's nothing to "react" to, and for all you know, the uncertainty of what's ahead could be a deliberate action being taken to generate mood given the environment.

 

[Triforce141]

blind pathing by putting segments of uphill. yes i realize that for the first hill they're doing it for visual impact as you break seeing the robot is cool but it happens again with turns that don't do a good job of getting the camera ahead of it.

It's not like any of the original Genesis games have that sort of issue....

 

[HoodWinked]

It's not like any of the original Genesis games have that sort of issue....

the difference is that all of these issues that i pointed out managed to happen in just a span of 30 seconds where as the genesis sonic games would happen less frequently and special stages were based around rote memorization so thats a bit more forgivable considering that 8-16 bit era games relied on difficultly and repetition to stretch longevity.

 

[Veins]

This looks like shadow the hedgehog. Which needs to be left to history. 2000s edgy was not a good look. I will also never understand how people can like the auto lock on homing attack.

Really hope Sonic Mania does well enough to see a sequel.

 

[Toxi]

Of course it is, its Sonic . When I read stuff like that, it's like you've never played the classic Sonic, which were all so linear and lacked any of the depth of Mario III, never mind the perfection of Mario IV.

This is a fucking bizarre post. Both Sonic CD or Sonic 3 and Knuckles have far more complex level design than Super Mario Bros 3 or Super Mario World. Which makes sense when you compare the relative number of levels between those games.

Please... one could finish Sonic and Sonic II in one go in one sitting . There was never any real depth to those games Started to change with Sonic CD and Sonic III.

You do realize the length of the games has nothing to do with the depth of the level design, right?

 

[Ash735]

Tee Lopes (Composer for Sonic Mania) has uploaded his remix of the Main Theme for Sonic Forces:
https://youtu.be/tGSA5-SkTGg

 

[SoulUnison]

That theme song give me major Black Knight vibes.

 

[Professor Beef]

Please... one could finish Sonic and Sonic II in one go in one sitting . There was never any real depth to those games Started to change with Sonic CD and Sonic III.

With this logic, one could argue that there's no depth in Mario 1, 2, 3, or World.

 

[JonCha]

I'm giving them credit for actually building on what has worked for once (i.e. Colours and Generations).

I don't really see why they're bringing Classic Sonic back; I'd prefer them to separate the two styles, keeping 'classic' Sonic in Mania, and improve the platforming of Colours. i think that's the way to go rather than the Unleashed boostfest.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

Question is will the Switch version be a completely different game or the same as the others.

 

[Mailbox]

Tee Lopes (Composer for Sonic Mania) has uploaded his remix of the Main Theme for Sonic Forces:
https://youtu.be/tGSA5-SkTGg

That theme song give me major Black Knight vibes.

i'm getting weird Chocolate Rain vibes from the beginning of that

 

[Hitlersaurus Christ]

The song is anime as fuck and I'll be disappointed as as hell when the vocals aren't by Shoko Nakagawa or someone like that.

Spoiler

I still want to hear a JAM Project version of the Japanese/European Sonic CD opening

 

[Gunstar Ikari]

There are seriously folks in here saying that Genesis Sonic levels have less depth than 2D Mario levels? Like...what?

I will also never understand how people can like the auto lock on homing attack.

Fighting enemies would be an exercise in frustration without it.

 

[oti]

It looks like a Sonic game.

 

[mo60]

Question is will the Switch version be a completely different game or the same as the others.

Same but a bit downgraded graphically.

 

[Mista Koo]

I'm very interested in finding out what the third Sonic is.

 

[LordKano]

Question is will the Switch version be a completely different game or the same as the others.

It will be the same game.

 

[Team Andromeda]

This is a fucking bizarre post. Both Sonic CD or Sonic 3 and Knuckles have far more complex level design than Super Mario Bros 3 or Super Mario World. Which makes sense when you compare the relative number of levels between those games.


You do realize the length of the games has nothing to do with the depth of the level design, right?

Sigh... For one, I was mainly on about Sonic 1 and II which are usually classed as the best in the series. I'm sorry for me Sonic 1 and II had nothing like the depth of Mario IV ; In the way parts of levels opened more when you hit the different colour switches, completing Star World, the special zone and trying to get all the stars.

Sonic CD was where we at last started to see some depth and replay value thanks to the brilliant time travel feature. Yes I agree Sonic IIII and S&K started to add more depth and become more like a Mario game and that's when 2D Sonic started to lose its appeal to me and didn't feel or play like the Sonic game

 

[Bishop89]

Visually I thought it looked great, particularly the backgrounds.

But... it looked like the player is just holding forward the whole time...

 

[IronicSonic]

all I saw was a sonic going in a straight line.

See again. There are alternative paths. I know you are trolling but if Generations late levels are some indications, I expect Forces show the most complex 3D levels in a Sonic game yet

Linear to say the least, my god. Flash backs of that awful 7 secret rings trash on the wii.

What? I can even

Of course it is, its Sonic . When I read stuff like that, it's like you've never played the classic Sonic, which were all so linear and lacked any of the depth of Mario III, never mind the perfection of Mario IV.

What! you need to check 2 and 3& Knuckles again. Even 1 late level does have alternative paths. One or two fake walls doesnt do a level in a platform "complex"

Visually I thought it looked great, particularly the backgrounds.

But... it looked like the player is just holding forward the whole time...

If you see a speedrun of any platformer game, it looked like the player is just holding forward the whole time aswell

--

Just in this very last thread page there are so many visions about how a Sonic game must be. I mean, this thread is the exact same Sonic Thread for the last 10 years but, wow.

Goodspeed Sonic Team.

 

[Team Andromeda]

What! you need to check 2 and 3& Knuckles again. Even 1 late level does hace alternative paths. One or two fake walls doesnt do a level in a platform "complex"

I know my Sonic games, I played most of them back in the day and still own most of them to his very day. I really don't need to play through and complete them all again

 

[Supaidaman]

Yes, let's all judge the entire game by a 30 seconds footage, also Sonic was never good and every game in the series sucks and all linear.

This is every Sonic thread ever again.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Docfuture is a treasure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faf9hMAqCfs