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[Fatghost]

so bc included or not?

We don't know but early (retailer) info is saying NOT.

How many people still use BC on PS2, in a few years this is a moot point. Just keep your ps2 if you wanna play the games so bad.

PSP for PS1
PS2 for PS2
PS3 for PS3

Sony Holy Trinity

Except PS2 looks like shit on HDTV, and takes up space/input slots.

 

[NIghtWolf]

You might not be aware of this, but people are mostly stupid. Expect returns.

I'm most definitely in the market for a cheaper PS3, since it has a number of features I will never use, but no BC and it's no sale for me. The PS3 immediately loses its ability to pimp it's huge back library, even to those who never owned a PS2. So I say that move is retarded. Take out wireless anything, remove any kind of reader, block the ability to play blu-ray movies, but don't take away the BC. Even more limited than the 80gig versions would be better than cutting it out entirely.

I believe theres 20GB ps3 left in some stores, you should go and see if you get one, they cheap, they have full emulation and dont have wifi like you like.


----------------------


By the way, does anyone could put some comparisons of a ps2 game being played in a HDTV with the ps2 and another with the ps3.

 

[Nebur]

Confirmed, next October 11 in Spain Price will be 449 €:



489 € with FIFA 2008.

 

[rc213]

Most likely not.

That would be a complete disaster for Sony, I know plenty of people who are waiting to hop on the PS3 train. $399 PS3 would do it but all of them also want the backwards compatibility so they can continue playing their PS2 games.

 

[Raistlin]

But from a consumer standpoint, it means that any version of the 360 you buy can ultimately be upgraded to the "full" experience.

What we have heard about the 40 GB PS3 suggests this is not the case.

Both situations are less than ideal.

I'm not saying its ideal ... I'm pointing out the difference.


BC is a secondary function. The primary function of a console is to play its current gen titles. The fact that you can upgrade your core to have an HDD, doesn't change the impact on current gen development.

 

[Wollan]

Pages old and is seemingly standalone 60GB consoles being cleared out.

That would be a complete disaster for Sony

How so?

 

[reilo]

That would be a complete disaster for Sony, I know plenty of people who are waiting to hop on the PS3 train. $399 PS3 would do it but all of them also want the backwards compatibility so they can continue playing their PS2 games.

Mountain, meet ant hill.

 

[rc213]

Mountain, meet ant hill.

Wha?!?!?!?

 

[Sharp]

Ugh, come on dudes, if this is the only way Sony can get the price down it's a good move. I still think having this many SKUs is stupid but whatever.

 

[KTallguy]

Wow.

I don't see why they wouldn't just have software BC, it's not an extra "component" right?

If it has silver bling I'll feel cheated though. I paid good money for my bling!

 

[Aaron]

I believe theres 20GB ps3 left in some stores, you should go and see if you get one, they cheap, they have full emulation and dont have wifi like you like.

I actually looked for them locally soon after PS3 was released and could never find one, then I heard that there was increased loading times with that model due to the smaller hard drive, and whether it was true or not, was scared away from purchase.

I think I'll wait to see how this whole 40gig thing goes down before making any decisions, seeing what sort of packs and deals they'll have for the holidays.

 

[Fatghost]

Wow.

I don't see why they wouldn't just have software BC, it's not an extra "component" right?

If it has silver bling I'll feel cheated though. I paid good money for my bling!

Well it's not like just throwing a switch. Full software BC would take money to produce and there are some pretty serious technical hurdles making it work, so there is a good possibility Sony doesn't have a software solution ready yet.

And retailers are saying the 40 GB unit doesn't play PS2 games. It's not just that we're assuming no GS = no PS2 games, we're hearing no PS2 games, and we're assuming that means no GS.

 

[Lightning]

Confirmed, next October 11 in Spain Price will be 449 €:



489 € with FIFA 2008.

Is that the 60GB?

 

[Fatghost]

I actually looked for them locally soon after PS3 was released and could never find one, then I heard that there was increased loading times with that model due to the smaller hard drive, and whether it was true or not, was scared away from purchase.

I think I'll wait to see how this whole 40gig thing goes down before making any decisions, seeing what sort of packs and deals they'll have for the holidays.

20 GB unit had a HDD with a smaller cache, 2MB compared to the 60GB 8MB cache, and this probably slowed some loading times.

Everything else was the same, so upgrading the HDD on a 20 GB HDD should fix any loading time disparity.

 

[bigswords]

No BC is fine to me (I know there's tons of PS2 users who want upscaled graphics). As long as the price is around 300-350 USD or there's a good package (with games etc). If not then I still see the 60 gig version to be the better one (heck even the good old 20 gig looks better then this one currently).

Edit: I do hope the 40 gig harddisk has more cache then the 20 gig version though, it's not a deal breaker but I do hope they don't cheapen out on the harddisk.

 

[Rabid Wolverine]

Australia will be getting the 40GB PS3 in 2 weeks for $699AU RRP.

60GB version will not be stocked by Sony Australia anymore.

 

[Raistlin]

Wow.

I don't see why they wouldn't just have software BC, it's not an extra "component" right?

Maybe they can't get it working well?


The PS2's GPU did things that even current gen ones can't easily replicate.

 

[Fatghost]

No BC is fine to me (I know there's tons of PS2 users who want upscaled graphics). As long as the price is around 300-350 USD or there's a good package (with games etc). If not then I still see the 60 gig version to be the better one (heck even the good old 20 gig looks better then this one currently).

399 US for this one. Don't think any games will be packed in.

 

[bigswords]

Australia will be getting the 40GB PS3 in 2 weeks for $699AU RRP.

60GB version will not be stocked by Sony Australia anymore.

WTF is that shit mate, you guys are getting screwed big time. I mean over here in Singapore it's 799 SGD for the 60 gig harddisk and 2 x PS3 games.

 

[kikonawa]

Confirmed, next October 11 in Spain Price will be 449 €:



489 € with FIFA 2008.

can it even be more blurry please?

it does not help the situation

 

[bigswords]

399 US for this one. Don't think any games will be packed in.

Shit it feels more gimped then the old 20GB PS3s to be honest.

 

[kikonawa]

Australia will be getting the 40GB PS3 in 2 weeks for $699AU RRP.

60GB version will not be stocked by Sony Australia anymore.

hm, that equals to 436 euro, sounds close enough to 449 euro as seen on that spanish carrefour promo

 

[Fatghost]

Shit it feels more gimped then the old 20GB PS3s to be honest.

20 GB PS3 wasn't gimped at all. It was only missing wireless and SD card and Mem Stick card readers.

 

[Lightning]

hm, that equals to 436 euro, sounds close enough to 449 euro as seen on that spanish carrefour promo

I thought the 40GB was launching for 399 Euros?

 

[mrklaw]

449 euro is a bit crappy. still a 150 euro drop which is good, but thats £312.

Will UK retailers be dumb enough to charge more than £299? They did it for the original, but that was a £25 difference. Will they eat the margin this time round?

 

[KTallguy]

Maybe they can't get it working well?


The PS2's GPU did things that even current gen ones can't easily replicate.

I'm confused, don't the newer models have software BC?
Is it that bad? I was under the impression that it worked ok.

 

[favouriteflavour]

Any pack ins with that 799 AUD price? If not the starter pack shits all over it. 2 games, extra controller, bigger storage and potentially better backwards compat for two hundred dollars.

 

[Fatghost]

I'm confused, don't the newer models have software BC?
Is it that bad? I was under the impression that it worked ok.

Wow, this has been addressed like 20 times in this thread.

Current 80 GB/ Euro 60 GB units have the PS2 GPU still on board and only emulate the PS2 CPU.

 

[neptunes]

kind of wasn't what I was expecting

I really only want MGS4, but that can wait until fall 08 or later

should be good for those who have yet to jumped into next-gen (for whatever reason)

 

[bigswords]

20 GB PS3 wasn't gimped at all. It was only missing wireless and SD card and Mem Stick card readers.

Nope the 20 GB version is fine, it's the 40 GB I was comparing that was gimped compared to the 20 GB version.

20 GB
No Wifi
No Card reader
4 ports USB
Full hardware BC

40 GB
No Wifi
No card reader
2 ports usb
no hardware BC at all

Just throw in around 100 USD and you can get what 100 GB drive or some insane amount of space harddisk.

 

[Kujo]

I'm confused, don't the newer models have software BC?
Is it that bad? I was under the impression that it worked ok.

I'll post this again:

20GB/60GB NTSC - Full hardware BC
60GB PAL/80GB NTSC - EE removed, GS still present
40GB - No hardware BC?

Any pack ins with that 799 AUD price?

It's $699 RRP not $799.

40 GB
No Wifi

It has WiFi.

 

[Sho Nuff]

BC is part of the PlayStation's DNA. Ripping it out would never happen.

But now that Ken's gone...

 

[Raistlin]

I'm confused, don't the newer models have software BC?
Is it that bad? I was under the impression that it worked ok.

The newer PS3's (Euro 60GB and all 80GB) use software emulation for the EE (Emotion Engine, PS2's CPU). However, they still contain the GS (Graphics Synthesizer, PS2's GPU) and its eDRAM.

 

[Fatghost]

Nope the 20 GB version is fine, it's the 40 GB I was comparing that was gimped compared to the 20 GB version.

20 GB
No Wifi
No Card reader
4 ports USB
Full hardware BC

40 GB
No Wifi
No card reader
2 ports usb
no hardware BC at all

Just throw in around 100 USD and you can get what 100 GB drive or some insane amount of space harddisk.

Strangely enough, I think the info floating around suggests that the 40GB does have wifi.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Nope the 20 GB version is fine, it's the 40 GB I was comparing that was gimped compared to the 20 GB version.

20 GB
No Wifi
No Card reader
4 ports USB
Full hardware BC

40 GB
No Wifi
No card reader
2 ports usb
no hardware BC at all

Just throw in around 100 USD and you can get what 100 GB drive or some insane amount of space harddisk.

stop pulling shat outta ur ass. last time i checked, 40GB had wifi, unless things changed...

EDIT: BEATEN BY MILLISECONDS!

 

[KTallguy]

The newer PS3's (Euro 60GB and all 80GB) use software emulation for the EE (Emotion Engine, PS2's CPU). However, they still contain the GS (Graphics Synthesizer, PS2's GPU) and its eDRAM.

I see. Interesting.

 

[neptunes]

I thought you guys said there was wifi? confused

edit: so it does, I don't think the cost of the wifi chip can be all that significant

 

[Rabid Wolverine]

WTF is that shit mate, you guys are getting screwed big time. I mean over here in Singapore it's 799 SGD for the 60 gig harddisk and 2 x PS3 games.

Tell me bout it!

Australia always follows Europes pricing, if it were Americas pricing it would be $450 - $500 AUD.

PS3 will now cost what it cost the PS1 back in 1995 at launch.

 

[kassatsu]

I thought you guys said there was wifi? confused

FCC says yes.

 

[bigswords]

Strangely enough, I think the info floating around suggests that the 40GB does have wifi.

Ohh it does , ok then it's fine.

stop pulling shat outta ur ass. last time i checked, 40GB had wifi, unless things changed...

Look at my previous post people replied that it did not have or were not sure that it had the wifi, not spreading FUD.

Edit: ugh no he did replied that there was Wifi, I am failed!! (sad face)

So I guess the price point wise is ok, but wished they took out the Wifi.

 

[Raistlin]

I hope the 40GB HDD doesn't have a gimped cashe like the 20GB did.

 

[Fatghost]

I hope the 40GB HDD doesn't have a gimped cashe like the 20GB did.

Well that's easily fixed with an HDD swap. I went to a 16MB, 7200 RPM 200GB hdd in my ps3 and noticed a slight improvement in game loading times but a HUGE improvement in media loading times.

 

[Open Source]

There once was a day when people claimed that lack of full/hardware BC was a big mistake and that multiple SKUs would hopelessly befuddle customers.

 

[xaosslug]

BC is part of the PlayStation's DNA. Ripping it out would never happen.

But now that Ken's gone...

oh, shit...

 

[Fatghost]

There once was a day when people claimed lack of full/hardware BC was a big msitake and that multiple SKUs would hopelessly befuddle customers.

Yes. We come full circle now.

 

[Raistlin]

Well that's easily fixed with an HDD swap.

I understand ... just saying it would be nice for those that are buying it.

 

[Fatghost]

I understand ... just saying it would be nice for those that are buying it.

I bet most 40 GB 2.5 SATAII hdds were built with an 8MB cache. So they're probably ok.

 

[bigswords]

I bet most 40 GB 2.5 SATAII hdds were built with an 8MB cache. So they're probably ok.

Is there much difference from a 16mb cache drive to an 8mb one?

 

[Raistlin]

I bet most 40 GB 2.5 SATAII hdds were built with an 8MB cache. So they're probably ok.

Yeah ... you're probably right ... unless Sony scored some sort of deal with real ghetto HDD's

 

[Fatghost]

Is there much difference from a 16mb cache drive to an 8mb one?

For games? No. On average, it's maybe 1 second faster in loading, and of course games with installs on the HDD benefit more...but if you're not actually timing it with a stop watch you won't notice.

In one case though, it was noticeable: in Ninja Gaiden Sigma, the loading pauses during the gameplay were shorter.

Other games, like VF5, were basically the same.


For media, like loading up all my demos or movie thumbnails, it's a lot faster, like 40%. When I boot up my PS3, it all loads in the XMB blazingly fast.

Is it worth the extra time/trouble/money getting a 16 MB SATA2 2.5 drive? Not really. You're better off saving money and getting an easy to find 8 MB drive.