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- Thread starter Robinspain
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Shogmaster
Sloppy seconds
Pure software emu takes fucktons of RAM to do well from what I remember on my old PC. I don't think any of the the PS1 emus worked well with less than 512MB of system RAM and if you are doing hardware acceleration, you need lots of VRAM to make it run at decent speeds. And that was PS1 emu on my old Athlon XP PC.Madman said:
inpHilltr8r
Member
:lolShogmaster said:
Shogmaster
Sloppy seconds
I thought PS1 software downloads for PSP were tweeked for PSP. It's not like you are allowed to rip PS1 discs and put it into the Memory Stick, right?Sharp said:
MercuryLS said:
It does, and even with all the necessary documentation available to them and tons of money spent, it's no where near perfect. Even now, Halo 2 has this annoying visual anomaly where there is an remnant from explosions sticking around the screen until you restart the game. And that's one of the better games running!
Graphics Horse
Member
Shogmaster said:
Not allowed by sony, but you can do with custom firmware (using the same official emu)
PC emulators needing a fuckton of RAM is mainly due to Windows needing a fuckton of RAM
Shogmaster
Sloppy seconds
but it doesn't run full speed, right?angelfly said:
typhonsentra
Banned
Where'd this No BC rumor come from? Is it official?
The only reason lack of RAM would affect speed would be if it were trying to squeeze some VRAM out of the memory stick, since nothing's running but the emulator. I don't have a PSP, so obviously I can't confirm it, but it seems pretty unlikely if it runs properly that it doesn't do so at full speed.Shogmaster said:
Vaporak said:
It is indeed wrong.
Emulation, at its core, is about simulating another instruction set. Sometimes, these simulated instructions can be at full speed (or even higher!) than its previous counterpart. In most cases, performance can be increased by improving these simulated instructions, or by getting a better system.
PS2 simulation is difficult because its graphics chip has native instructions and functions that are not implemented well in modern graphics cards. I have a sneaking suspicion that it is because the chip is a MIPS device (or was that the CPU?) so implementing it on something like the RSX would be quite difficult.
As a sidenote, modern-day CPUs (especially for servers) are now offering instruction sets that improve virtualization performance -- which is basically emulation by another name.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
i'm pretty sure my PS3 came with an ethernet cord...
Shogmaster
Sloppy seconds
I'm not sure what you mean by squeezing VRAM out of the memory stick. Is the emulator running from the MS without being copied to RAM? And is this the official one or home brew?lSharp said:
MoxManiac said:
Are you talking about homebrew emus that let's you rip PS1 dsics to memory stick or the official download ones?
No, it is not. That would be dumb. I don't think any such thing is happening, which is why I don't see what difference adding RAM would make for PS1 emulation. Apparently, though, that doesn't matter regardless because according to everyone who's actually tried it it works beautifully.Shogmaster said:
Shogmaster
Sloppy seconds
Sharp said:
MoxManiac said:
I guess maybe it's the fact that PS1 and PSP is architecturally so close? They both have MIPS CPU (IIRC) and the rasterizer in PS1 is very simple compared to PSP's. It would be like running older PC game on a new one maybe?
If that's the case with PS1 and PSP, then in the PC you have 3MB RAM system emulated in software at around 40+MB (thanks whoever that was) on a totally different architecture, so instructions for one hardware is reinterpreted for another type (from MIPS to X86). That's like more than 13x increase in RAM. Can that be used to gauge what's needed from PS2 to PS3? I don't have a clue.
All I know is that 360's pure software BC is far from good, and if it's success actually depended on the BC performance, 360 would be in last place right now. :lol
user friendly
Member
All the PS1 games that I've tried on my PSP (using 3.52M33) work perfectly. Currently playing RE2 and Thrasher: S&D and they are at full speed.
If psp can emulate ps1 titles perfectly, I think PS3 could run PS1/PS2 games almost perfectly. All it takes is a well written software emu, which Sony could have started working on way back around launch.
Exactly!
If psp can emulate ps1 titles perfectly, I think PS3 could run PS1/PS2 games almost perfectly. All it takes is a well written software emu, which Sony could have started working on way back around launch.
Sharp said:
Exactly!
fortified_concept
Banned
:lol :lol Shogmaster keeps pretending to be an expert on console hardware and programming and he keeps getting owned again and again for years. Every single time he posts about technical stuff you know that when Fafadala or someone who actually knows about the subject (instead of copy pasting random technical terms from B3D without understanding any of it) enters the thread they're gonna prove him wrong and once again he'll look like a fool. It's really funny actually.
MWS Natural
Member
DarienA said:
If all of your sentences contain "maybe" and end in a question mark you can never be wrong?
90% of games do(pretty much every game that actually works - there are a Few that don't run yet). Many games keep running at full speed even if you downclock the CPU to ~100MhzShogmaster said:
CPU emulation of certain architectures is far more mature then most people realize. X86 and older MIPS are very stable emulation bases, though I think the best implementations of each are proprietary.
The obscene memory requirements for PC emulation are usually a mix of things - from messy codebases, to crossplatform bloat etc. I'd say they are decisively Not an indicator of actual requirements for a 'perfect' emulator.
I'd guess a combination of resources devoted to BC development(probably not a great priority) and issues with architecture differences (segmented memory won't help when emulating unified arch).
), which renders the ethernet cables pretty useless.chickensoup
Member
I thought some of the problems were because they couldn't directly emulate the nvidia chips without violating patents (or paying lots of cash)? This isn't something Sony needs to care about with the PS2 code.Fafalada said:
So, a lil bit off-topic to refresh the already refreshed topic
Theres no possibility that sony could include a faster BD-ROM in those new models? I know it doesn't sound right but sometimes technology lower cost and you can pack things that has dropped to a feasible price ie: wifi and bluetooth.
Theres no possibility that sony could include a faster BD-ROM in those new models? I know it doesn't sound right but sometimes technology lower cost and you can pack things that has dropped to a feasible price ie: wifi and bluetooth.
Shogmaster said:
Oh MY LORD. I'm ready to reach into my monitor.
RAM issues are usually trivial unless you're setting up some kind of "sandbox" environment where you predefine limits in "ram-space". That, to my knowledge, does not happen on any of the PS* systems because they're directly loaded.
The key problem in emulation and virtualization lies in the fact that it is extremely hard to reproduce instruction sets of another processor to the same degree of accuracy and performance as before. You can get away with it using a faster processor or by refining your simulation/emulation software.
The reason why the GS in the PS2 is hard to emulate is precisely because of this problem. As Fafalada was mentioning a while back, the GS can do some things like clearing pipes and other effects better than modern GPUs. Trying to emulate that kind of effect requires additional time and may have unintended consequences (such as different effects on certain registers).
Again, it is NOT RAM THAT IS THE PROBLEM.
Strangely enough, CELL might be able to do some of these operations better than the RSX if we're creative enough. I'm not sure though.
Forgotten Ancient
Banned
$399 PS3 with BC and Wifi and the 5 Bluray movie deal would be rather tempting. Without BC, it can fuck off. It's been my idea that I can trade in my ps2 towards a ps3...and I just don't have infinite space in my entertainment setup.