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[jcm]

I'm enjoying the squirming and the fact that they are pretty much banned from PSN when that DNS trick is fixed by sony. MVC3 is out soon.

It's funny to me that many of the people who are concerned about this security hole will happily use some random dude's custom firmware and some random dude's DNS server.

 

[cnizzle06]

Gaf: We're smarter than Sony's engineering AND legal departments!

 

[LiquidMetal14]

It's funny to me that many of the people who are concerned about this security hole will happily use some random dude's custom firmware and some random dude's DNS server.

So true lmao

 

[Withnail]

edit: nm

 

[FunkyPajamas]

And not just Sony. Now - potentially - anyone can have a go too.

Honest question: how would that work? Wouldn't malicious users have to hack the actual PSN to be able to "broadcast" code to other users' PS3s? Or have a direct connection (hosting a hacked game sending data), or just by a non-malicious user downloading something and executing it?

I can't understand how it would work unless one of the hackers took control of the playstation network. And seeing how (if this news is true) Sony may start swinging the banhammer soon, the second option will probably not be possible later. The third option would only happen to users downloading unsigned software to their PS3s (i.e. homebrew, hackers or pirates) and I guess if you're downloading that stuff then you know the risks, no?

 

[Jocchan]

I know lately many discussions around here have become, sadly, black and white arguments between two opposite factions, but are you people seriously arguing who are the good guys and who are the bad guys? No words.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Anything. Pretty much anything you can think of, if it helps them track down dirty pirates.

And not just Sony. Now - potentially - anyone can have a go too.

I hope you guys don't get this thread locked like the original firmware thread.

This is a awesome post though. Screams panic. I bet sony require some kinda access code, program, or whatever that only Sony has to do whatever it is this firmware allows them to. Maybe it's just something that will allow them to detect cfw stuff easily and deny PSN access. Maybe it's a bomb that will make your console legit in order to access psn (legit as in disable cfw stuff).

 

[Raist]

Course it does. And what would you call it? It allows for code to be excuted on your machine by an outside party without your consent.

And it's not the hackers complaining, they don't really give a fuck. It is me.

From day 1 the PS3 would upload the list of software which has been running on your console etc, without you knowing, as soon as you're connecting to the PSN. From day 1 the PSN would run code on your PS3 to make a prompt displaying "please update", locking you out of network services if you don't update.

So I guess rootkit has been there from day 1. Call the press and file a lawsuit.
Also how come no one has hacked into this yet?

 

[Ydahs]

Gaf: We're smarter than Sony's engineering AND legal departments!

 

[Oni Jazar]

Calling this a rootkit.... Congratulations on the hyperbole. We are now worse then Kotaku.

 

[Inanna]

Course it does. And what would you call it? It allows for code to be excuted on your machine by an outside party without your consent.

Outside party? Sony owns PSN.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

I know lately all the discussions around here have become, sadly, black and white arguments between two opposite factions, but are you people seriously arguing who are the good guys and who are the bad guys? No words.

WCW OR NWO BOYEE?!!?

 

[XiaNaphryz]

I know lately all the discussions around here have become, sadly, black and white arguments between two opposite factions, but are you people seriously arguing who are the good guys and who are the bad guys? No words.

thisisneogaf.gif

 

[Dunlop]

It's not their console. It's my fucking console.

agreed, they should just remove the code and send everyone manuals to do what they want.

So Tinfoil hat scenerio:

1 Sony puts in root kit
2 hackers access rootkit,
3 malicious code is sent fucking up a large amount of PS3's accross the globe
4 Sony get's sued, pulls out of hardware and goes third pary after crippling financial losses
5 ?
6 PROFIT!

Spoiler

I obviously do not think this will happen

 

[Mithos]

Don't get why you are so scared. What do you think Sony going to do that has you so freaked out?

It not what Sony "might" do that scares them, its what Dibbz, Raist, jcm, Mithos, LiquidMetal14 might do to your console, when they send remote programs to YOUR PS3 what worries people.

 

[shuri]

This is quite a serious issue.

If a hacker manages to discover how the rootkit works, he could remotely launch code on any ps3 in the world with the 3.56 firmware.

YOu FAIL AT BASIC NETWORKING

 

[Vagabundo]

Honest question: how would that work? Wouldn't malicious users have to hack the actual PSN to be able to "broadcast" code to other users' PS3s? Or have a direct connection (hosting a hacked game sending data), or just by a non-malicious user downloading something and executing it?

I can't understand how it would work unless one of the hackers took control of the playstation network. And seeing how (if this news is true) Sony may start swinging the banhammer soon, the second option will probably not be possible later. The third option would only happen to users downloading unsigned software to their PS3s (i.e. homebrew, hackers or pirates) and I guess if you're downloading that stuff then you know the risks, no?

It really depends on how they have implemented it. There are a few way to spoof your domain name - DNS poisoning and the like - and download some code to the PS3.

 

[kamorra]

It not what Sony "might" do that scares them, its what Dibbz, Raist, jcm, Mithos, LiquidMetal14 might do to your console, when they send remote programs to YOUR PS3 what worries people.

:lol

 

[IrishNinja]

It's not their console. It's my fucking console.

thank you.
people celebrating because they dont want hacks online: fair enough.
people celebrating/corporate cheerleading because they dont want other people using custom firmware to do as they please with their own system: wow.

 

[kitch9]

sony is allowed to protect their network

they are allowed to protect their console

they are not allowed to do something which compromises the security of a network without informing the user

its not incohrant, you are all ignorant and have no idea

This guy is forum gold.

EVERYBODY DON YOUR TIN-FOIL HATS THE SKY IS FALLING!!! ROOTKITS, DERP.

How many times have PSN servers been hacked then?

 

[LiquidMetal14]

It not what Sony "might" do that scares them, its what Dibbz, Raist, jcm, Mithos, LiquidMetal14 might do to your console, when they send remote programs to YOUR PS3 what worries people.

You want on that list? We can tango my rapscalion fiend!

 

[Dibbz]

Essentially Sony can now remotely execute code on the PS3 as soon as you connect. This can do whatever Sony wants it to do such as verifying system files or searching for homebrew. Sony can change the code and add new detection methods without any firmware updates and as the code executes remotely there is no reliable way to forge the replies.

So let me get this straight then. Sony added a verification check system when you connect to PSN. The check is remotely controlled so it can be changed by Sony without the need of FW updates.

So essentially if your running CFW it has the ability to detect it and possibly stop you from going on PSN?

How is this the same as a rootkit?

 

[Vagabundo]

Outside party? Sony owns PSN.

And I own my PS3. The code runs on my PS3.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

thank you.
people celebrating because they dont want hacks online: fair enough.
people celebrating/corporate cheerleading because they dont want other people using custom firmware to do as they please with their own system: wow.

UNDERSTAND THIS THOUGH - What I'm saying is related to PSN. DO whatever you want as long as you don't log onto PSN or you will likely be ever to log in ever again.

This is a you problem if you ignored the TOS.

 

[Withnail]

You know that's just a webcomic right, not the actual code.

 

[iapetus]

OH DAMN YOU SONY FOR RUNNING YOUR CODE ON YOUR CONSOLE!
>8(

It's my console, not theirs. If they think they own it, they can pay me for it.

 

[N.A]

Just been searching through my chat logs:

Jan 27 14:44:32 <Mathieulh> 3.56 has nice new stuffs in there
Jan 27 14:44:43 <Mathieulh> like remote code execution upon login
Jan 27 14:44:45 <Sorrowuk> They will just release patches so people who have hacked cant go online
Jan 27 14:44:46 <Mathieulh> yummy
Jan 27 14:44:50 <noone> WAT
Jan 27 14:45:00 <noone> RFE built-in the fw!?
Jan 27 14:45:25 <Mathieulh> 3.56 pretty much has a built in psn rootkit
Jan 27 14:45:30 <noone> dude, that's the only stuff i'd be afraid of
Jan 27 14:45:31 <Mathieulh> don't tell me I haven't warned you
Jan 27 14:45:43 <Sorrowuk> psn rootkit ?
Jan 27 14:46:05 <noone> but if we could rip-off the fw that shit would be erased
Jan 27 14:46:20 <noone> that was the only thing stopped sony to _auto_ update your fw
Jan 27 14:46:22 <Mathieulh> noone it's not that simple
Jan 27 14:46:29 <Mathieulh> the server awaits a proper reply
Jan 27 14:46:34 <Mathieulh> and that reply isn't in the firmware

 

[Grampa Simpson]

i have a degree in network engineering and info systems. i think i know how a fucking computer network works and its security.......

You're a liar. Either that or your degree is worthless. Nobody is going to take you seriously if you aren't able to correctly describe what a router does.

Edit: That came off a bit more vitriolic than I intended.

 

[Inanna]

And I own my PS3. The code runs on my PS3.

Don't update, don't go on PSN.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

And I own my PS3. The code runs on my PS3.

The code that is meant to filter out the hackers. I understand the pessimistic view but they are trying to secure their network.

 

[RyanDG]

How is this the same as a rootkit?

Its not. It's about spreading fud to people so that it gets picked up by big sites like Kotaku and then gets spread like wildfire without any real basis in fact or truth.

All of this is based on some speculation that was posted in an IRC channel, and I haven't even seen the logs of what was actually said.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Its not. It's about spreading fud to people so that it gets picked up by big sites like Kotaku and then gets spread like wildfire without any real basis in fact or truth.

All of this is based on some speculation that was posted in an IRC channel, and I haven't even seen the logs of what was actually said.

Sad but true. But lets trust faceless hackers over Sony.

If I owned a business I would not be without hidden cameras. Same applies for this.

 

[gregor7777]

You know that's just a webcomic right, not the actual code.

Obviously, but it's pretty damn close to reality.

 

[RyanDG]

Just been searching through my chat logs:

Thanks for posting this. I actually think this should probably put some people at ease...


Edit - you don't happen to have any more of the conversation do you? or does it basically end there?

 

[Raist]

So after everyone in the CFW thread spitting on/laughing at Mathieulh for being a jerk and not doing shit to help the community, now we're supposed to take his word on that supposed rootkit thing? Well OK then.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

It really depends on how they have implemented it. There are a few way to spoof your domain name - DNS poisoning and the like - and download some code to the PS3.

Oh, thank you, that makes sense.

thank you.
people celebrating because they dont want hacks online: fair enough.
people celebrating/corporate cheerleading because they dont want other people using custom firmware to do as they please with their own system: wow.

"corporate cheerleading". Sure. It's your system, but it's their network. You can't go on their network if you're not playing by the rules. You can hack and homebrew all you want, but if you want to be on their network you need to understand they're not going to like it. If they have added a rootkit and you don't have your PS3 connected to psn/internet then you shouldn't have a problem. Unless you're downloading software from unknown sources. But why would you worry about that? The hackers are your friends, right? They gave you the keys to the console so that you can use it as you see fit.

 

[DMeisterJ]

Good shit.

Keep the hackers and cheaters off of the network interfering with my online games. Sucks for the 'legit' homebrewers, but, what are you gonna do? :/

 

[naib]

Well, this is fun.

 

[Bojanglez]

Doesn't a rootkit try and subvert the standard operation of an OS to give the person that wrote the rootkit external (and unauthorised) access to the OS?

As far as I can see it this is not doing that, it is merely the OS author adding functionality to its own software, there is no subversion involved it is software that is designed by the original OS author. If you don't trust the author of the OS to maintain that OS then I suggest you don't use that OS in the fist place.

 

[kamorra]

So after everyone in the CFW thread spitting on/laughing at Mathieulh for being a jerk and not doing shit to help the community, now we're supposed to take his word on that supposed rootkit thing? Well OK then.

Him not helping and has nothing to with his knowledge how the PS3 and PSP works. Is it really so hard to find real arguments?

 

[Vagabundo]

Just been searching through my chat logs:

Thanks N.A. Updated OP

 

[LiquidMetal14]

So after everyone in the CFW thread spitting on/laughing at Mathieulh for being a jerk and not doing shit to help the community, now we're supposed to take his word on that supposed rootkit thing? Well OK then.

To me, it seems like some are taking these guys on the internet who know their code and hacking PS3's like their word is more solid than Sony's on this. And, the legit consumer, get looked at as a defender for wanting my network activities as secure as possible. And if that means Sony putting in this measure that protects the users and their huge investment then I agree with it.

 

[IrishNinja]

UNDERSTAND THIS THOUGH - What I'm saying is related to PSN. DO whatever you want as long as you don't log onto PSN or you will likely be ever to log in ever again.

This is a you problem if you ignored the TOS.

thanks, i caught that the first hundred times in this thread; (potentially) doing something invasive/shitty and mentioning it in your TOS isnt a free pass.
if you're asking who's "good or bad" i mean, i dont even know where to start with a question like that.
i get that its sony's network and their rules, but that doesnt mean i have to be pleased with the idea of something like this, much less celebrate it.

 

[gregor7777]

Hopefully they do put in some kind of check for CFW when logging in to PSN. Hopefully not bans, but just stop CFW from hitting PSN unless they switch back to OFW.

That way we can let the cheating issue go away and we can stop reading LiquidMetal's posts on the topic daily. He won't have anything to bitch about anymore.

 

[Raist]

Him not helping and has nothing to with his knowledge how the PS3 and PSP works. Is it really so hard to find real arguments?

I see a lot of arguments/replies being completely ignored here and people carry on with the "OMG IT'S A ROOTKIT AND EVIL HACKERS ARE GOING TO RUN MALICIOUS CODE ON MY PS3 NOW" bullshit.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

thank you.
people celebrating because they dont want hacks online: fair enough.
people celebrating/corporate cheerleading because they dont want other people using custom firmware to do as they please with their own system: wow.

People can still use CFW, dongles, otherOS as they please, just not on a PS3 that has 3.56 to access PSN, and soon any PS3 that access PSN. That's the point, people that mod their consoles with custom firmwares shouldn't be on PSN anyway. If they are using cheats, pirate games, or doing honest homebrewing.

 

[jorma]

Sad but true. But lets trust faceless hackers over Sony.

If I owned a business I would not be without hidden cameras. Same applies for this.

You're really going places in this thread. Dark places where evil reigns.

 

[N.A]

So after everyone in the CFW thread spitting on/laughing at Mathieulh for being a jerk and not doing shit to help the community, now we're supposed to take his word on that supposed rootkit thing? Well OK then.

Mathieulh's info has been 99% accurate and he's documented a lot of the PS3's security here: http://ps3wiki.lan.st/index.php/Main_Page


Also I'd prefer it if the OP quoted Mathieulh instead of me. Edit: Nevermind, you've changed it.

I don't have the time to go through the entire log but this bit seems the most relevant:

Jan 27 14:44:32 <Mathieulh> 3.56 has nice new stuffs in there
Jan 27 14:44:43 <Mathieulh> like remote code execution upon login
Jan 27 14:44:45 <Sorrowuk> They will just release patches so people who have hacked cant go online
Jan 27 14:44:46 <Mathieulh> yummy
Jan 27 14:44:50 <noone> WAT
Jan 27 14:45:00 <noone> RFE built-in the fw!?
Jan 27 14:45:25 <Mathieulh> 3.56 pretty much has a built in psn rootkit
Jan 27 14:45:30 <noone> dude, that's the only stuff i'd be afraid of
Jan 27 14:45:31 <Mathieulh> don't tell me I haven't warned you
Jan 27 14:45:43 <Sorrowuk> psn rootkit ?
Jan 27 14:46:05 <noone> but if we could rip-off the fw that shit would be erased
Jan 27 14:46:20 <noone> that was the only thing stopped sony to _auto_ update your fw
Jan 27 14:46:22 <Mathieulh> noone it's not that simple
Jan 27 14:46:29 <Mathieulh> the server awaits a proper reply
Jan 27 14:46:34 <Mathieulh> and that reply isn't in the firmware
Jan 27 14:46:42 <noone> oh...
Jan 27 14:46:46 <Mathieulh> it's in whatever code they remotely execute
Jan 27 14:46:53 * NNNnc1 sets channel limit to 836
Jan 27 14:46:59 <Mathieulh> which they of course can change at any given time but oh! well
Jan 27 14:47:03 <Sorrowuk> If we can always decrypt the ps3 firmwares, can't we just decrypt 3.56 and add any new syscalls or whatever into 3.55 and then 3.55 will run stuff made with the 3.56 sdk ?
Jan 27 14:47:03 <noone> but still, if they could RFE, then they could hash your current fw, no match = auto-update
Jan 27 14:47:07 <noone> even reformat your hdd
Jan 27 14:47:08 <Sorrowuk> so we could just always stay on 3.55
Jan 27 14:47:12 <Mathieulh> I assume they probably added some syscalls for lv2 integrity checks
Jan 27 14:47:42 <noone> Sorrowuk, if they have RFE, they could hash that customized 3.56
Jan 27 14:47:57 <noone> and there's no way you could fake a hash
Jan 27 14:48:09 <Sorrowuk> but wont RFE only work on 3.56 firmware
Jan 27 14:48:09 <noone> but you could fake the response
Jan 27 14:48:11 <Sorrowuk> and not 3.55
Jan 27 14:48:14 <noone> im being paranoid.
Jan 27 14:48:23 <Sorrowuk> cause 3.55 is hacked
Jan 27 14:48:25 <Sorrowuk> we can do anything
Jan 27 14:48:42 <Mathieulh> noone you could fake the syscalls their code use I guess
Jan 27 14:48:46 <Mathieulh> IF you know what they are
Jan 27 14:48:48 <noone> yep
Jan 27 14:48:52 <Mathieulh> it's a lot of work
Jan 27 14:48:53 * NNNnc1 sets channel limit to 834
Jan 27 14:48:59 <Mathieulh> and I am personally not doing it
Jan 27 14:49:04 <noone> but we could sniff the entry
Jan 27 14:49:08 <noone> over the network
Jan 27 14:49:13 <Mathieulh> also because they implemented this doesn't mean they'll make use of it
Jan 27 14:49:21 <Mathieulh> although it'd be silly not to

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Hopefully they do put in some kind of check for CFW when logging in to PSN. Hopefully not bans, but just stop CFW from hitting PSN unless they switch back to OFW.

That way we can let the cheating issue go away and we can stop reading LiquidMetal's posts on the topic daily. He won't have anything to bitch about anymore.

Sigh, I guess you guys can start posting me as the local Sony defender on the web now. I swear I can't even voice my opinion in an issue I care about.

You're really going places in this thread. Dark places where evil reigns.

Or you can twist my words and look at me as a bad guy or internet heathen. All I want is for the network to be secure.

 

[kamorra]

I see a lot of arguments/replies being completely ignored here and people carry on with the "OMG IT'S A ROOTKIT AND EVIL HACKERS ARE GOING TO RUN MALICIOUS CODE ON MY PS3 NOW" bullshit.

Two wrongs don't make a right. You guys are not discussing you are raging. It won't accomplish anything.