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[Lothars]

You have to keep in mind that this is the setup they had to begin with anyhow. This entire mess started because OtherOS was removed from the slim models.

I have no doubt that hackers would have kept trying and maybe eventually getting through if OtherOS wasn't removed. it's not like they wouldn't have tried and anyone that says otherwise is lieing to themselves.

I wish OtherOS wasn't removed but it wouldn't have stopped anything.

 

[notworksafe]

Yeah, and? You can't stop it. You never could, and nobody who understands the situation has ever said that you could. OtherOS however was the best delaying tactic they had, and they threw it out the window out of fear.

There is no "and". Cracking efforts on the PS3 were not started because of Other OS removal. It would have been cracked if there was Other OS or not. Geohot himself said he planned to crack the PS3 in 2009, before Other OS was removed.

 

[DonMigs85]

I have no doubt that hackers would have kept trying and maybe eventually getting through if OtherOS wasn't removed. it's not like they wouldn't have tried and anyone that says otherwise is lieing to themselves.

I wish OtherOS wasn't removed but it wouldn't have stopped anything.

I've forgotten a lot of the details, but did the hackers discover the keys themselves or were they leaked by someone actually working at Sony?

 

[Sophia]

There is no "and". Cracking efforts on the PS3 were not started because of Other OS removal. It would have been cracked if there was Other OS or not. Geohot himself said he planned to crack the PS3 in 2009, before Other OS was removed.

You're not even reading what I'm saying. I never said cracking efforts were because of OtherOS removal, I'm saying OtherOS was the best defense they had.

 

[notworksafe]

This entire mess started because OtherOS was removed from the slim models.

Then what do you mean by "this entire mess"? I assumed you meant the crack, sorry.

 

[KtSlime]

Yeah, and? You can't stop it. You never could, and nobody who understands the situation has ever said that you could. OtherOS however was the best delaying tactic they had, and they threw it out the window out of fear.

They literally threw out the baby with the bathwater.



See above. You can't stop it, every closed system will eventually be opened once it hits consumer hands. But they could have delayed it as long as possible, had they not started removing stuff.

How do people not get this? Every system if there is enough interest will be hacked/cracked. It's just the way of things. In retrospect for the right people f0f & geohot the PS3 was dead easy to crack; but the reason it was not until now is because they never gave it much time because OtherOS was there.

Sure, someone would have gotten it sooner or later, but OtherOS was the smartest decision Sony ever made, and the removal was the second dumbest; right between using a constant to generate the keys, and telling people to get a second job.

 

[Dambrosi]

I've forgotten a lot of the details, but did the hackers discover the keys themselves or were they leaked by someone actually working at Sony?

They worked the keys out on their own using mathematics and a whiteboard.

No, I'm exaggerating...they didn't need no stinking whiteboard.

Spoiler

The answer is 4

 

[Sophia]

Then what do you mean by "this entire mess"? I assumed you meant the crack, sorry.

Sorry, I'm getting a few terms and responses messed up myself. (Unfortunate side effect of NeoGAF moving so fast.)

Essentially, the attempts to crack the system for the sake for the sake of cracking the system (which in turn would be used by piracy) started long before OtherOS's removal

OtherOS's removal, however, started the entire mess to get it back. Which in turn sped up everything else. Essentially, had they kept OtherOS, they would have slowed (but not stopped) the advancement of piracy and cheaters. Even the hackers admitted this themselves.

 

[dogmaan]

Sorry, I'm getting a few terms and responses messed up myself. (Unfortunate side effect of NeoGAF moving so fast.)

Essentially, the attempts to crack the system for the sake for the sake of cracking the system (which in turn would be used by piracy) started long before OtherOS's removal

OtherOS's removal, however, started the entire mess to get it back. Which in turn sped up everything else. Essentially, had they kept OtherOS, they would have slowed (but not stopped) the advancement of piracy and cheaters. Even the hackers admitted this themselves.

The only documented "exploit" before OtherOS was removed, was partial access to RSX via OtherOS.

 

[Dambrosi]

Sorry, I'm getting a few terms and responses messed up myself. (Unfortunate side effect of NeoGAF moving so fast.)

Essentially, the attempts to crack the system for the sake for the sake of cracking the system (which in turn would be used by piracy) started long before OtherOS's removal

OtherOS's removal, however, started the entire mess to get it back. Which in turn sped up everything else. Essentially, had they kept OtherOS, they would have slowed (but not stopped) the advancement of piracy and cheaters. Even the hackers admitted this themselves.

I've yet to see any evidence of this "PS3 piracy" you speak of. I'm not denying its existence, of course, I just haven't heard anything about it.

 

[Speevy]

I've yet to see any evidence of this "PS3 piracy" you speak of. I'm not denying its existence, of course, I just haven't heard anything about it.

Are you being facetious? People on this very board have remarked about the existence of Torrents and Megaupload links on other sites.

 

[notworksafe]

Sorry, I'm getting a few terms and responses messed up myself. (Unfortunate side effect of NeoGAF moving so fast.)

Essentially, the attempts to crack the system for the sake for the sake of cracking the system (which in turn would be used by piracy) started long before OtherOS's removal

OtherOS's removal, however, started the entire mess to get it back. Which in turn sped up everything else. Essentially, had they kept OtherOS, they would have slowed (but not stopped) the advancement of piracy and cheaters. Even the hackers admitted this themselves.

Well, geohot's original exploit used the OtherOS feature. Was this exploit not able to be used by pirates/cheaters? It seems like geohot wanted to use it to install a CFW.

A quick google search even shows hacks that were being used as early as 2006, though I'm not sure how effective they were.

It would have happened either way, so a path that lead to console bans/online restrictions seems like it would have been inevitable. :\

 

[Sophia]

I've yet to see any evidence of this "PS3 piracy" you speak of. I'm not denying its existence, of course, I just haven't heard anything about it.

It's there. We have it now. In theory, there's nothing stopping anyone from renting a game and ripping it via a backup manager. Sony could have stopped this by allowing installs similar to how the 360 does it while keeping OtherOS. *shrugs*

 

[Gravijah]

Are you being facetious? People on this very board have remarked about the existence of Torrents and Megaupload links on other sites.

What are your new avatars from?

 

[Speevy]

What are your new avatars from?

The animated, frame-by-frame drawings of Windsor Mckay's classic "Little Nemo" comic strip from 1905-1912.

It was the inspiration for the cartoon film and Capcom game, both of which released in the early 90s.

 

[DonMigs85]

It's there. We have it now. In theory, there's nothing stopping anyone from renting a game and ripping it via a backup manager. Sony could have stopped this by allowing installs similar to how the 360 does it while keeping OtherOS. *shrugs*

But in the 360's case you still need to put in the right disc for the game to run off the HDD.
I think many of the people who claim to use backup managers legitimately are just too lazy to get off the couch and swap discs.

 

[Vagabundo]

Well, geohot's original exploit used the OtherOS feature. Was this exploit not able to be used by pirates/cheaters? It seems like geohot wanted to use it to install a CFW.

A quick google search even shows hacks that were being used as early as 2006, though I'm not sure how effective they were.

It would have happened either way, so a path that lead to console bans/online restrictions seems like it would have been inevitable. :\

The hack were very limited. Most of the other groups - the ones that made some of the big discoveried (RandomNumberLOL() - only got involved after OtherOS was removed. So it was a cascade effect. Not sure why Geohot decided to start cracking the PS3, but there were low level attempts since it was released. People seemed annoyed that RSX was blocked in OtherOS, that seemed to motivate the original guys, it was never really about piracy, but then it never is, the pirate just kind of hang around the fringe usually.

 

[Dambrosi]

Are you being facetious? People on this very board have remarked about the existence of Torrents and Megaupload links on other sites.

That's...quite an avatar you have there.

And no, not at all. I must have missed it.

Edit: Yeah, I remember Little Nemo! The CPS1 coin-op, right? What a trip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlDCuDvv7ws

And the NES game was one of NES' best, wasn't it?

 

[DonMigs85]

That's...quite an avatar you have there.

And no, not at all. I must have missed it.

There have been torrents of PS3 games such as MGS4 even back in 2008, though of course they were pretty useless at the time.

 

[notworksafe]

The hack were very limited. Most of the other groups - the ones that made some of the big discoveried (RandomNumberLOL() - only got involved after OtherOS was removed. So it was a cascade effect. Not sure why Geohot decided to start cracking the PS3, but there were low level attempts since it was released. People seemed annoyed that RSX was blocked in OtherOS, that seemed to motivate the original guys, it was never really about piracy, but then it never is, the pirate just kind of hang around the fringe usually.

Limited at the start, yes, but I think if there was a CFW installed via the OtherOS exploit we'd just be in the same situation. Sony working on banning CFW machines, people using CFW for both legit an non-legit means, and normal users caught in the middle.

 

[Sophia]

Limited at the start, yes, but I think if there was a CFW installed via the OtherOS exploit we'd just be in the same situation. Sony working on banning CFW machines, people using CFW for both legit an non-legit means, and normal users cause in the middle.

I'd have no qualms with people banning CFW through that angle as long as it didn't impact OtherOS. We have no way of knowing if that situation would come about tho.

 

[jsnepo]

Sony is definitely in the wrong here but what do you expect them to do to prevent CFW from accessing PSN? Replace all PS3s? If you don't like what Sony is doing now can you suggest other ways to make sure PSN is safe from cheaters and pirates (not saying homebrew is about them but they are examples)?

 

[DonMigs85]

Sony is definitely in the wrong here but what do you expect them to do to prevent CFW from accessing PSN? Replace all PS3s? If you don't like what Sony is doing now can you suggest other ways to make sure PSN is safe from cheaters and pirates (not saying homebrew is about them but they are examples)?

CFW/Homebrew will always be a double-edged sword that relies on the Honor System for legit users. Just like a knife in the kitchen - you can use it to slice your food, or stab someone to death.

 

[KtSlime]

Sony is definitely in the wrong here but what do you expect them to do to prevent CFW from accessing PSN? Replace all PS3s? If you don't like what Sony is doing now can you suggest other ways to make sure PSN is safe from cheaters and pirates (not saying homebrew is about them but they are examples)?

Block CFW users from the online games; not the store, not netflix.

Those things are silly to block as they have nothing to do with pirating or cheating.

 

[Sophia]

I don't know what they can do about piracy, but blocking* CFW users form using online games is a good start to stopping cheating. More so if they don't inconvenience them from going back and fourth between CFW and official firmware.

(blocking, not banning. You can ban the people who have actually cheated, but don't touch the people who haven't actually broken a rule.)

 

[notworksafe]

(blocking, not banning. You can ban the people who have actually cheated, but don't touch the people who haven't actually broken a rule.)

Is it possible to distinguish between the two? I mean, Sony can't tell if you own a game when you run it from backup manager.

 

[jsnepo]

Block CFW users from the online games; not the store, not netflix.

Those things are silly to block as they have nothing to do with pirating or cheating.

How will Sony do that without this rootkit thing?

Is it possible to distinguish between the two? I mean, Sony can't tell if you own a game when you run it from backup manager.

True. Homebrew isn't Sony's responsibility so no one should expect support for it and that includes PSN.

 

[Sophia]

Is it possible to distinguish between the two? I mean, Sony can't tell if you own a game when you run it from backup manager.

I'm talking about cheaters, not pirates. They can tell you ran it from custom firmware tho. =P

 

[notworksafe]

I'm talking about cheaters, not pirates. They can tell you ran it from custom firmware tho. =P

Ah okay. I'm not sure how the cheats work, so this may be easier. Is there a "cheat program" or some such thing that is run?

 

[Sophia]

Ah okay. I'm not sure how the cheats work, so this may be easier. Is there a "cheat program" or some such thing that is run?

Not currently to my knowledge. Most of the cheats as far as I understand are just glitches. Either way, easily stopped by not allowing custom firmware to connect onto a game.

 

[KtSlime]

How will Sony do that without this rootkit thing?



True. Homebrew isn't Sony's responsibility so no one should expect support for it and that includes PSN.

They could already tell typically; the PS3 has always phoned home with recently viewed/played/crashed reports on network connection.

Problem is; I don't think they have PSN built discreetly. Store access; multiplayer access; etc should all be switches that are on or off, like PSN+. They know I don't have that.

They should block multiplayer access. Blocking store access will just tempt more people to pirate games that they could have only gotten via the PSN Store or pirating. Blocking Netflix is silly because the only reason I needed a PSN account to get onto Netflix is because Sony was looking for methods to convince people that purchased the PS3 as a Bluray to signup for PSN and at best buy a movie or two on the PSN Video store, at worst add to the number they quote at their meetings when comparing PSN to Live.

 

[notworksafe]

Not currently to my knowledge. Most of the cheats as far as I understand are just glitches. Either way, easily stopped by not allowing custom firmware to connect onto a game.

That would work for now, but I wonder how long it'd be before the cheaters find a way to patch to CFW to display as a normal OFW (or if it is even possible) to play online.

 

[Sophia]

That would work for now, but I wonder how long it'd be before the cheaters find a way to patch to CFW to display as a normal OFW (or if it is even possible) to play online.

I don't think it's possible with Sony's "rootkit", actually. At least, it'd be extremely difficult, and only of value to the cheaters and the pirates.

 

[DonMigs85]

That would work for now, but I wonder how long it'd be before the cheaters find a way to patch to CFW to display as a normal OFW (or if it is even possible) to play online.

Or what about hacked/patched saves played on a system with OFW?

 

[notworksafe]

Or what about hacked/patched saves played on a system with OFW?

You're depressing me.

 

[Meier]

12/06/10 - 3.55 (Security Fixes)
09/20/10 - 3.50 (Blu-ray Movie Support, User Reporting)
09/06/10 - 3.42 (Security fixes)
07/27/10 - 3.41 (You May Like Section)
06/29/10 - 3.40 (PlayStation Plus, Store Ratings, Video Editor)
04/21/10 - 3.30 (3D support, Trophy Sorting)
04/01/10 - 3.21 (Removes Other OS)

Yeah... every fucking week or two.

It was obviously exageration but 8 updates in 10 months that haven't helped me a single time is absurd when the 360 gets one or two a year that offer significant upgrades and improvements.

 

[Lonewolf_92]

Going strong on words does not prove you're right you know ? Deal with opinions you don't like in a clever way, or at least try.

And talking out of your ass doesn't either, you know that right? I've actually looked at forums dedicated to at least a dozen games, and other than one poorly coded piece of shit (MW2), not one had reports of massive cheating going on like your claiming we're downplaying. Therefore your "opinion" isn't worth a shit. Don't like it? Too bad, go spread your FUD manure where there are people less likely to call you on it.

 

[Argyle]

Block CFW users from the online games; not the store, not netflix.

Those things are silly to block as they have nothing to do with pirating or cheating.

About Netflix, allowing users on CFW might be a violation of their agreement with Netflix, or more importantly the agreement between Netflix and the studios - note that there is no Android Netflix app because Android doesn't have a consistent video DRM platform built into the system...if you were Netflix would you want to stream to a compromised PS3 that could possibly be decrypting and copying the stream to the hard drive? I have a feeling that Netflix asked Sony to block CFW PS3s from their service...

If I were Sony, I would absolutely block people from the store. Why? Because if you allow store downloads to compromised PS3s, it would be dead easy to pirate PSN download games. You'd just decrypt the file on your local PS3 and upload it to your favorite warez site, done. If you block CFW PS3s then that makes it more challenging, because it would hopefully be harder to just extract the decrypted package off the machine (swapping hard drives may not work because the HDD is encrypted by a per console key IIRC, the key could have been compromised by a previous CFW installation, though...which leads into my second point...)

The more I think about it, if I were Sony I would also absolutely ban any PS3 I ever detected as compromised forever from PSN, even if they later come on with legit firmware. For starters, isn't it correct that the FTP applications stay if you upgrade to OFW and are signed with a legit older key? Apparently they haven't started their whitelist to block those kinds of apps from running on a later OFW...and if you can switch from CFW to OFW freely (for example, you buy a modchip using the other exploit the fail0verflow guys found), I would want to prevent hacked savegame exploits, PSN piracy, etc. so if you ever presented yourself as running CFW, I would have to assume you are running a modchip and can switch freely, so I would totally ban that machine forever.

Maybe protecting the PSN downloads is a moot point (I would hope there are not direct DL links for premium games like there are for demos...?) but I think this is the route that Sony will go...

Honestly, I can't get too upset about this. If you want to stay on PSN but run CFW, buy another PS3 and keep that one totally unmodded, the situation is exactly the same on the 360.

 

[Dambrosi]

Or what about hacked/patched saves played on a system with OFW?

What, you mean what you had before CFW even existed? Hex editors are a bitch.

 

[Argyle]

What, you mean what you had before CFW even existed? Hex editors are a bitch.

Pretty sure PS3 save files are signed so if you mess around with them blindly with a hex editor, they will not be loaded.

 

[DonMigs85]

What, you mean what you had before CFW even existed? Hex editors are a bitch.

What about locked saves, are they signed with keys or anything too?

 

[KtSlime]

About Netflix, allowing users on CFW might be a violation of their agreement with Netflix, or more importantly the agreement between Netflix and the studios - note that there is no Android Netflix app because Android doesn't have a consistent video DRM platform built into the system...if you were Netflix would you want to stream to a compromised PS3 that could possibly be decrypting and copying the stream to the hard drive? I have a feeling that Netflix asked Sony to block CFW PS3s from their service...

If I were Sony, I would absolutely block people from the store. Why? Because if you allow store downloads to compromised PS3s, it would be dead easy to pirate PSN download games. You'd just decrypt the file on your local PS3 and upload it to your favorite warez site, done. If you block CFW PS3s then that makes it more challenging, because it would hopefully be harder to just extract the decrypted package off the machine (swapping hard drives may not work because the HDD is encrypted by a per console key IIRC, the key could have been compromised by a previous CFW installation, though...which leads into my second point...)

The more I think about it, if I were Sony I would also absolutely ban any PS3 I ever detected as compromised forever from PSN, even if they later come on with legit firmware. For starters, isn't it correct that the FTP applications stay if you upgrade to OFW and are signed with a legit older key? Apparently they haven't started their whitelist to block those kinds of apps from running on a later OFW...and if you can switch from CFW to OFW freely (for example, you buy a modchip using the other exploit the fail0verflow guys found), I would want to prevent hacked savegame exploits, PSN piracy, etc. so if you ever presented yourself as running CFW, I would have to assume you are running a modchip and can switch freely, so I would totally ban that machine forever.

Maybe protecting the PSN downloads is a moot point (I would hope there are not direct DL links for premium games like there are for demos...?) but I think this is the route that Sony will go...

Honestly, I can't get too upset about this. If you want to stay on PSN but run CFW, buy another PS3 and keep that one totally unmodded, the situation is exactly the same on the 360.

Honey attracts more flies than vinegar.

I doubt CFW is a concern of Netflix, a PC is a far more open system but still has Netflix. I never tried it, but I bet I could set up a Netflix stream and point a screen capture app at the browser window and get it that way. But it'd be much easier to get a better quality video off of an already existing rip from a torrent site. Which, I don't believe any of those rips come from Netflix because why bother?

I haven't been following the scene because I am happy with geohot's cfw; the one that includes a bypass check for npdrm so that he wouldn't have to release a crack for it. A crack that would enable PSN apps to be pirated. Yep, my firmware isn't even capable of pirating PSN games. That also means, that it is not possible to decrypt the Netflix app, and without it being decrypted it can't be hacked to rip low quality video streams so that they can be uploaded on terribly slow FTP connections.

That all said and done; isn't it better for Sony to have some sales and some piracy of PSN games than to have no sales and all piracy of PSN games to CFW users; which is exactly what happens when they block legitimate CFW users from the Playstation Store.

That expression exists for a reason; Everything always turns out better when you try to improve your customers experience rather than punish them for no reason.

 

[Argyle]

Honey attracts more flies than vinegar.

I doubt CFW is a concern of Netflix, a PC is a far more open system but still has Netflix. I never tried it, but I bet I could set up a Netflix stream and point a screen capture app at the browser window and get it that way. But it'd be much easier to get a better quality video off of an already existing rip from a torrent site. Which, I don't believe any of those rips come from Netflix because why bother?

I haven't been following the scene because I am happy with geohot's cfw; the one that includes a bypass check for npdrm so that he wouldn't have to release a crack for it. A crack that would enable PSN apps to be pirated. Yep, my firmware isn't even capable of pirating PSN games. That also means, that it is not possible to decrypt the Netflix app, and without it being decrypted it can't be hacked to rip low quality video streams so that they can be uploaded on terribly slow FTP connections.

That all said and done; isn't it better for Sony to have some sales and some piracy of PSN games than to have no sales and all piracy of PSN games to CFW users; which is exactly what happens when they block legitimate CFW users from the Playstation Store.

That expression exists for a reason; Everything always turns out better when you try to improve your customers experience rather than punish them for no reason.

I disagree, mainly because you don't seem to understand the mindset that the Hollywood studios have about DRM. Can you even receive HD streams from Netflix on the PC? (I know this was unsupported for some time, was this ever changed? Edit: yes, they are allowing HD streaming. They must be confident that Silverlight is secure enough.) You can receive HD streams on the PS3 with DD+ 5.1 surround, I can totally understand the studios not wanting this to be pirated easily. If Netflix was a security risk for them, you can be damn sure they would be pulling their movies off the service...

Stopping PSN piracy might be difficult, if not impossible, but on the other hand, why make it easier? I'm not accusing all CFW owners of being pirates but I have a suspicion that they would not make up a large percentage of PSN paid downloads if you allowed them access to the store.

Bottom line, why should Sony make it easier for people on CFW? They don't WANT you to be on CFW because of the very real possibility that you will pirate every game from the moment you install it (even if you have no intention of pirating anything, how can they know that?), if they allowed CFW people those benefits, who in their right mind wouldn't install CFW if they had the option? (Assuming you don't give a shit about online play, and I think many people would take "free" games over online play...) Don't forget, you have violated their terms of service (so there goes the "no reason" argument), so I think they are well within their rights to ban you from PSN.

 

[KtSlime]

I disagree, mainly because you don't seem to understand the mindset that the Hollywood studios have about DRM. Can you even receive HD streams from Netflix on the PC? (I know this was unsupported for some time, was this ever changed? Edit: yes, they are allowing HD streaming. They must be confident that Silverlight is secure enough.) You can receive HD streams on the PS3 with DD+ 5.1 surround, I can totally understand the studios not wanting this to be pirated easily. If Netflix was a security risk for them, you can be damn sure they would be pulling their movies off the service...

Stopping PSN piracy might be difficult, if not impossible, but on the other hand, why make it easier? I'm not accusing all CFW owners of being pirates but I have a suspicion that they would not make up a large percentage of PSN paid downloads if you allowed them access to the store.

Bottom line, why should Sony make it easier for people on CFW? They don't WANT you to be on CFW because of the very real possibility that you will pirate every game from the moment you install it (even if you have no intention of pirating anything, how can they know that?), if they allowed CFW people those benefits, who in their right mind wouldn't install CFW if they had the option? Don't forget, you have violated their terms of service (so there goes the "no reason" argument), so I think they are well within their rights to ban you from PSN.

Have you seen a Netflix rip before? I haven't, they are all BD/HDTV/DVD-rips; I dare you to find me a video that is ripped from Netflix. I will give you that movie studios are pretty paranoid. As for PSN piracy, that's probably the easiest for Sony to check for.

Here, I'll make it really simple for any Sony employee that may be seeing this:
When I am online, and I launch a PSN title it broadcasts its name to the Sony server - already, and here is where the change comes in: Check to see if I own the game on my PSN account. Tada; easy peasy. If I don't own the game I am playing - ban the fucking hell out of me; mother fucking blacklist my ass and send me a wonderful DMCA warning.

And I will make an amendment to my last statement; cause it's only fair seeing that Sony can make amendments to their shit: no (good) reason.

 

[Dambrosi]

Pretty sure PS3 save files are signed so if you mess around with them blindly with a hex editor, they will not be loaded.

You're misinformed, good sir. That only applies to a few games, like Demon's Souls. MW2 was not one of those games.

It remains to be seen if Killzone 3's saves will be afforded similar protection.

Here, I'll make it really simple for any Sony employee that may be seeing this:
When I am online, and I launch a PSN title it broadcasts its name to the Sony server - already, and here is where the change comes in: Check to see if I own the game on my PSN account. Tada; easy peasy. If I don't own the game I am playing - ban the fucking hell out of me; mother fucking blacklist my ass and send me a wonderful DMCA warning.

Er, OK, but what about those of us with stuff bought from foreign PSN Stores? I ain't giving up my legally-bought Malicious, Pac-Man Champ Ed DX and Demon's Souls dynamic theme just because some prick at Sony thinks I pirated them! And if I were on OFW, I wouldn't want to be banned for them, either!

No, your idea makes no sense, sorry.

 

[KtSlime]

You're misinformed, good sir. That only applies to a few games, like Demon's Souls. MW2 was not one of those games.

It remains to be seen if Killzone 3's saves will be afforded similar protection.

Seems to me that developers of multiplayer games are just asking for trouble if they don't sign their shit.

Edit:

You're right Dambrosi, I didn't think about that; I have a number of things purchased via separate PSN accounts as well. Perhaps the people at Sony can figure out a better way; that's why they get paid the big bucks right?

That doesn't change that I still think it is best to allow CFW users access the store, some money is better than no money right?

 

[mclem]

What do you call it? Renting for free? I consider it stealing if you pirate something you would have paid for anyway.

It's taking away the right the manufacturer has to restrict ownership of the product to people who have paid for the product. Which *is* taking something away, but the thing it's taking away is a right, not an object. For which a more accurate term is 'infringement'.

Think of it as stealing rights, if you like. That's not strictly accurate, but it's an approximate parallel. But 'infringing' on them is a much better approach.

 

[Argyle]

You're misinformed, good sir. That only applies to a few games, like Demon's Souls. MW2 was not one of those games.

It remains to be seen if Killzone 3's saves will be afforded similar protection.

You are correct, it seems that encryption of save data is optional, I googled for a MW2 savegame editor and it looks like they chose not to encrypt their save for some reason...at least they applied an (ineffective) checksum to try to detect if it was modified

I wouldn't be surprised if save game encryption is built into the OS so I bet it is trivial to turn on...sloppy port work on IW's part if they failed to do so

Have you seen a Netflix rip before? I haven't, they are all BD/HDTV/DVD-rips; I dare you to find me a video that is ripped from Netflix. I will give you that movie studios are pretty paranoid. As for PSN piracy, that's probably the easiest for Sony to check for.

Yeah, that's totally not the point. Do you think movie studios think, oh shit, the screeners we sent out got put up on Bittorrent, screw it, let's just upload the retail DVD rip ourselves? Of course not. They are going to try to plug any holes that exist, it doesn't matter that there is an easier way for someone to pirate the content. In the case of Netflix, if the studios felt that people had an easy way to pirate content on there, they would probably declare Netflix in breach of contract (since I'm sure the only way the studios agreed to license the content in the first place was because their service was secure) and pull all of their content off the service, and I don't think anyone wants that to happen.

 

[Noshino]

Honey attracts more flies than vinegar.

I doubt CFW is a concern of Netflix, a PC is a far more open system but still has Netflix. I never tried it, but I bet I could set up a Netflix stream and point a screen capture app at the browser window and get it that way. But it'd be much easier to get a better quality video off of an already existing rip from a torrent site. Which, I don't believe any of those rips come from Netflix because why bother?

I haven't been following the scene because I am happy with geohot's cfw; the one that includes a bypass check for npdrm so that he wouldn't have to release a crack for it. A crack that would enable PSN apps to be pirated. Yep, my firmware isn't even capable of pirating PSN games. That also means, that it is not possible to decrypt the Netflix app, and without it being decrypted it can't be hacked to rip low quality video streams so that they can be uploaded on terribly slow FTP connections.

Uh, Netflix isn't available on Andriod because of security issues:

We regard Android as an exciting technology that drives a range of great devices that our members could use to instantly watch TV shows and movies from Netflix. We are eager to launch on these devices and are disappointed that we haven’t been able to do so already. The hurdle has been the lack of a generic and complete platform security and content protection mechanism available for Android. The same security issues that have led to piracy concerns on the Android platform have made it difficult for us to secure a common Digital Rights Management (DRM) system on these devices. Setting aside the debate around the value of content protection and DRM, they are requirements we must fulfill in order to obtain content from major studios for our subscribers to enjoy.

http://blog.netflix.com/2010/11/netflix-on-android.html

That all said and done; isn't it better for Sony to have some sales and some piracy of PSN games than to have no sales and all piracy of PSN games to CFW users; which is exactly what happens when they block legitimate CFW users from the Playstation Store.

Sure, Sony can get some sales out of it, but they have more to lose than to gain.

That expression exists for a reason; Everything always turns out better when you try to improve your customers experience rather than punish them for no reason.

I didn't even know this expression existed til you mentioned it....

 

[hirokazu]

Copyright Infringement isn't stealing. YMMW on if it may or may not be as bad stealing, but it's not stealing.

That's not what I learnt at the cinema! D:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5SmrHNWhak