PS3 was "a stark moment of hubris" - Shawn Layden.

IbizaPocholo

NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
Dec 1, 2014
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https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-02-12-ps3-was-a-stark-moment-of-hubris-layden

Shawn Layden's opening keynote at the DICE Summit today was sprinkled with remarks one might not expect to come from the most visible public voice of a platform holder.

The chairman of Sony Interactive Entertainment Worldwide Studios hailed the success of the Switch, noting that Nintendo's latest platform was the best-selling console in the US for 2018. He celebrated the Microsoft-owned Minecraft for reshaping the way the industry thinks about online social play and creating an experience parents and kids can enjoy together. And then he talked candidly about some of Sony's mistakes, the PlayStation 3 in particular.

"Many of you know that PlayStation 2 was an industry triumph," Layden said. "It remains one of the best-selling consoles of all time. But coming off the heels of that was PlayStation 3, a stark moment of hubris in the nearly 25 years of PlayStation history. As we sometimes call it, PS3 was our Icarus moment... For our business, the fall was sharp. We hadn't listened to our customers. We created a devilish development environment. We reacted too slowly, and our network was under-developed. And worst of all, if you remember, was the price point.

"While the PlayStation 3 and our fight to stay relevant has been well-covered, what wasn't as well-covered was the call we made at the time to transform our company into what we are today. We doubled our efforts to develop incredible games and strengthen our partnerships for the next generation. We listened to developers and gamers. We listened to Mark Cerny. We created PS4, a console for developers as much as it was for fans. We focused on the quality of our games, on making titles that would stand the test of time the way the best pieces of art often do."

That focus on quality was instilled in Layden by his time working with Sony's founder and chairman Akio Morita.

"He would say we must forever push innovation, even if it meant murdering our darlings," Layden said. "We have to make our products obsolete before other people do, because they will. Morita-san understood well the innovator's dilemma, and grappled with it constantly."

Layden said some of the PS4's biggest exclusives--Bloodborne, Horizon Zero Dawn, God of War--can be traced back to the company's course correction during the PS3 generation. He pointed to Horizon Zero Dawn specifically, as the open-world action game was a significant departure from the previous work of developer Guerrilla Games. The studio had risen to prominence with the first-person shooter Killzone series, and it actually had a project that would have essentially built on that expertise, albeit with the addition of werewolves. It was "polished to readiness," Layden said, but Guerrilla opened its creative process up internally, taking 30 pitches from its employees for projects it should work on next. One of those was Horizon Zero Dawn.

"Some people have said, 'No one will be interested in robot dinosaurs.' You know who you are. Yet again, creativity wins."
 
Sep 5, 2013
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Hope he does more than just talking, I can't play "talks".

They have a really awesome console right now, great mind share and goodwill, hope they don't throw that all away over some BS next gen.
 
Nov 23, 2017
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I skipped out on the PlayStation 3 when it first launched because of the price. Even though the RROD was a issue for the 360 console, it was worth buying again (in my opinion) instead of a brand new Playstation 3 console.
 
Dec 15, 2018
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"...creativity wins."

Except that you and your suits have been shutting down on creative endeavors and censoring anything that could mildly offend you. Creativity my ass.
If you think there shutting down creative endeavors, name one. If you think it's them censoring things because "Sony" might be be mildly offended rethink your position.
 
Dec 18, 2013
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Because some how this forum thinks Sony isn't doing anything and Microsoft is taking over...
That’s a pretty rough generalization there.

I don’t think anyone is saying MS is taking over, or that Sony isn’t doing anything, but it does seem like more people (at least here) are warming up to Xbox and getting excited for things to come.

There’s nothing wrong with that, and it seems that many agree, (even Sony’s biggest fanboys,) that Sony has such a lead that they are coasting into next gen.

So while one is trying to make some waves the other is sitting from the top looking down to see how big the waves are, none of it really means shit for the rest of this gen and getting upset by that fact isn’t going to change anything.
 
Nov 20, 2013
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That’s a pretty rough generalization there.

I don’t think anyone is saying MS is taking over, or that Sony isn’t doing anything, but it does seem like more people (at least here) are warming up to Xbox and getting excited for things to come.

There’s nothing wrong with that, and it seems that many agree, (even Sony’s biggest fanboys,) that Sony has such a lead that they are coasting into next gen.

So while one is trying to make some waves the other is sitting from the top looking down to see how big the waves are, none of it really means shit for the rest of this gen and getting upset by that fact isn’t going to change anything.
I’m not quite sure I’m understanding this here. So because Sony is at the top they must be coasting? Supported by some inaction on Sony's part in regards to any good PR Microsoft gets online in message boards or social media?

I know for sure I don't agree that because Microsoft does or announces something that Sony must react to it accordingly in public. I also know for sure I don't agree that Sony is "coasting." They're getting patents done and have publicly stated they're working on their next-gen machine. None of that is coasting.

I'm really confused by this. Developing and maintaining a console and it's many derivations (development kits, libraries, supporting developers) and services is anything but coasting; whether or not PR is done to make people aware of that.
 
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Dec 18, 2013
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I'm not quite understanding this here. So because Sony is at the top they must be coasting? Supported by some inaction on Sony's part in regards to any good PR Microsoft gets online in message boards or social media?

I'm know for sure I don't agree that because Microsoft does or announces something that Sony must react to it accordingly in public. I also know for sure I don't agree that Sony is "coasting." They're getting patents done and have publicly stated they're working on their next-gen machine. None of that is coasting.

I'm really confused by this. Developing and maintaining a console and it's many derivations (development kits, libraries, supporting developers) and services is anything but coasting; whether or not PR is done to make people aware that.
I don’t say they are coasting, people like @thelastword and others do. Coasting was never my word and I’m only repeating it from other threads. Ask them why they chose those words.

If ardent fanboys say they are coasting, I have to believe they are coasting. That’s me taking what they say at face value.

I don’t necessarily agree with them, but I’ve never owned a PS4 and rarely used my PS3 so I have to assume they have more experience with the product then I do.
 
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Being in a coma was what saved Sony this generation. If you remember, it was Microsoft that screwed up and all Sony did was "not do what they did".
So being a three time loser in overall sales is Microsoft screwing up "just this gen"? Sony maintaining its worldwide appeal is only because microsoft had a brain fart "this gen"? Really
 
Dec 18, 2013
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So being a three time loser in overall sales is Microsoft screwing up "just this gen"? Sony maintaining its worldwide appeal is only because microsoft had a brain fart "this gen"? Really
I’d be happy to lose most of the time if I could lose upwards like these companies do. Must suck to lose and make billions of dollars. I volunteer to be the next loser.
 
Likes: NahaNago
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That’s a pretty rough generalization there.

I don’t think anyone is saying MS is taking over, or that Sony isn’t doing anything, but it does seem like more people (at least here) are warming up to Xbox and getting excited for things to come.

There’s nothing wrong with that, and it seems that many agree, (even Sony’s biggest fanboys,) that Sony has such a lead that they are coasting into next gen.

So while one is trying to make some waves the other is sitting from the top looking down to see how big the waves are, none of it really means shit for the rest of this gen and getting upset by that fact isn’t going to change anything.
Nah, just a vocal minority that usually play the victim card if you say anything against their precious.

It gets tiresome so most don’t bother saying anything.
 
Likes: Journey
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I’d be happy to lose most of the time if I could lose upwards like these companies do. Must suck to lose and make billions of dollars. I volunteer to be the next loser.
How in anyway does this refute what I said? Both of them are billion dollar companies. Even Jordan missed free throws, and even though MS has been losing with the Xbox doesn't mean they failed......just lost. You losing is just an internet poster losing, just like me, potentially life threatening because we're not corporations.
 
Dec 18, 2013
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How in anyway does this refute what I said? Both of them are billion dollar companies. Even Jordan missed free throws, and even though MS has been losing with the Xbox doesn't mean they failed......just lost. You losing is just an internet poster losing, just like me, potentially life threatening because we're not corporations.
I think I was trying to say the losers don’t really lose, and make a pile of money doing it.

You took it somewhere else.
 
Likes: Pallas
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Man, this thread didn't take long for the conversation to steer a certain direction.

Never, fucking, fails.
Do you see? Only Xbox threads get assaulted by haters... /s

On topic: I hope that by the statements in this interview, Layden means that the PS5 will not cost more than the PS4 did. It certainly sounds like he is implying that.
 
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Dec 18, 2013
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You tell me. You already have 7 out of the first 25 posts alone. Almost a third of the posts so far.
So I’m winning then?
Or am I trying to have a conversation? People reply to me and I reply to them. I get it it’s wierd. Going back and forth instead of just posting an opinon and leaving. It’s like a thing some people do.
 
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I think I was trying to say the losers don’t really lose, and make a pile of money doing it.

You took it somewhere else.
Rosieperezwhitmencantjump.gif
We're talking multinational companies how is what your saying a revelation? Baseball players on a losing team still make piles of money, they're still losing.......key word losing, not money.
 
Dec 18, 2013
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Rosieperezwhitmencantjump.gif
We're talking multinational companies how is what your saying a revelation? Baseball players on a losing team still make piles of money, they're still losing.......key word losing, not money.
So are they losing? Really? Or are they winning?

Here’s a better question. At that point do they really care?

You haven’t convinced me of your argument there. If I lose by winning and win by losing, which way do I go?
 
Dec 15, 2018
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So are they losing? Really? Or are they winning?

Here’s a better question. At that point do they really care?

You haven’t convinced me of your argument there. If I lose by winning and win by losing, which way do I go?
From my perspective they are losing but still making money.

And here's my answer with a question: do you think think I care if they care?

And convinced you of what? That they've been losing this gen. If you haven't read the writing on the several walls of reality I don't know what to tell you. They've lost, unequivocally, from a hard war and software perspective.
Hell Everyones most favorite companies to hate, EA, has had several losses and still takes in the dough.
 
May 9, 2018
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It’s always good to learn from your mistakes and evolve Mr. Layden but I can’t be the only one who is uncertain about the future. Especially with who is in charge(looking at you Jim Ryan) just don’t forget your roots(Japaneseque games) and keep making great games because the competition is only getting better and growing.

From my perspective they are losing but still making money.

And here's my answer with a question: do you think think I care if they care?

And convinced you of what? That they've been losing this gen. If you haven't read the writing on the several walls of reality I don't know what to tell you. They've lost, unequivocally, from a hard war and software perspective.
Hell Everyones most favorite companies to hate, EA, has had several losses and still takes in the dough.
Winning and losing is so subjective when it concerns these console manufacturers, they are making billions from the video game market, I consider that a win regardless on who sold more consoles.
 
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It’s always good to learn from your mistakes and evolve Mr. Layden but I can’t be the only one who is uncertain about the future. Especially with who is in charge(looking at you Jim Ryan) just don’t forget your roots(Japaneseque games) and keep making great games because the competition is only getting better and growing.



Winning and losing is so subjective when it concerns these console manufacturers, they are making billions from the video game market, I consider that a win regardless on who sold more consoles.
Winning and losing isn't subjective. It's only that when people decide to muddy the waters with bs.
Is Ms winning in console sales?
Is MS winning in software sales?
Is MS winning with/in Exclusives?
Please tell me how any of these are subjective.
Have you ever heard of something called "The Producers"? Make some thing to lose so we make money. Nothing subjective about it.
 
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Winning and losing isn't subjective. It's only that when people decide to muddy the waters with bs.
Is Ms winning in console sales?
Is MS winning in software sales?
Is MS winning with/in Exclusives?
Please tell me how any of these are subjective.
Have you ever heard of something called "The Producers"? Make some thing to lose so we make money. Nothing subjective about it.
Most of that equates to console warring bullshit. Do you really care if Y company sold more than X company? If you’re happy with the product then nothing else should matter to you as a consumer.
 
Feb 7, 2019
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  • LMJ

    LMJ

It's a shame that in today's age a head of a game studio can come out and give a speech that not only praises the competition, but also points out their own weakness' and show actual humility and yet is meant with such ire by so many.

I'm not excusing Sony's shortcomings (and they have many) but this is a good sign, they're not doubling down in arrogance, they see mistakes in the past and wish to work on them

In a gaming world where PR is the modus operandi, studios are straight up attacking fans that built them and transparency is unheard of,I personally found this speech quite refreshing...
 
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Most of that equates to console warring bullshit. Do you really care if Y company sold more than X company? If you’re happy with the product then nothing else should matter to you as a consumer.
Do I really care if Y company made X amount of dollars? No, none of this matters to my overall physical or mental health. But here we are, saying winning and losing is subjective because "billions". As a consumer your right, it doesn't matter to me, but when I'm on a thread talking about such things it matters. I don't care how much MS is worth, Zune was a loser. I sont care how much Sony is worth, UMD was a loser so was the PSP. I dont care how much.......you get the point. Products within a company can lose and it doesn't make the company a loser. So save the "oh my gawd console wars" for someone else.
 
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  • Hudo

    Hudo

It is quite interesting to hear someone from Sony talk candidly. I still don't understand why Sony felt that it needed to replace Shawn Layden with the professional shitposter called Jim Ryan.

EDIT:
As @DeepEnigma pointed out, it wasn't Layden that was replaced by Jim Ryan but John Kodera.
 
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Do I really care if Y company made X amount of dollars? No, none of this matters to my overall physical or mental health. But here we are, saying winning and losing is subjective because "billions". As a consumer your right, it doesn't matter to me, but when I'm on a thread talking about such things it matters. I don't care how much MS is worth, Zune was a loser. I sont care how much Sony is worth, UMD was a loser so was the PSP. I dont care how much.......you get the point. Products within a company can lose and it doesn't make the company a loser. So save the "oh my gawd console wars" for someone else.
Well winning and losing is a bit subjective to an extent. Do you think MS's console is losing? What about the Switch? Is there only one winner?

I'm not trying to make excuses or sideskirt the reality of this gens console sales, but in a world that has seen the Oujya or whatever it was called, and the steam machine... It's kinda hard to really call MS, Sony, or Nintendo a loser.

Sega, 3DO, TurboGFX16, Atari, etc... There are tons of examples of console manufacturers that truly lost. The big three left could be considered winners.
 
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Good to here that they know they fucked up with the PS3, even though it was a success in the end.

No more bullshit hardware, no more $599.

Give us a beefed up PS4 with backwards for this gen and they will have my money and support.
 
Likes: Tarkus98
Dec 3, 2013
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It is quite interesting to hear someone from Sony talk candidly. I still don't understand why Sony felt that it needed to replace Shawn Layden with the professional shitposter called Jim Ryan.
They didn't replace Layden, he still has the same position. He's chairman of the worldwide Studios.
 
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Likes: Hudo
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See now this is just drivel. Care to elaborate or just drive by shitpost?
Not really. I mean, you have someone saying Sony is sleepwalking when they’ve sold nearly a hundred million units and has perhaps the best first party output they’ve ever had. There was a drive by shit post involved, but it wasn’t mine imo. My point is, to say something like that you either have to hate playing good games or are willfully ignorant to what has been happening pretty much the entire generation.
 
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"...creativity wins."

Except that you and your suits have been shutting down on creative endeavors and censoring anything that could mildly offend you. Creativity my ass.
😆😆😆

C'mon now the fanboy shit on this forum this is getting pathetic man

Just let the hate go man😆

On a side note I have big hopes for PS5

They ve been in the game for so long they will always learn to improve for the next generation
 
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