PS3 Web Browser Discussion - big upgrade rumoured for long time, but no concrete news

Jeff, I've been reading this thread for as long as it existed. Yes, we are convinced that Sony has been working on a new browser. They've been working on it for a long fucking time, making sure that memory ain't an issue, making sure it's compatible with latest scripts and making sure to get the blessing of either Google or Mozilla.

That said, I find your dedication in proving this rumor quite fascinating. The only problem is that you might be the only one in this thread.
 
Aug 7, 2010
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shagg_187 said:
Jeff, I've been reading this thread for as long as it existed. Yes, we are convinced that Sony has been working on a new browser. They've been working on it for a long time, making sure that memory ain't an issue, making sure it's compatible with latest scripts and making sure to get the blessing of either Google or Mozilla.

That said, I find your dedication in proving this rumor quite fascinating. The only problem is that you might be the only one in this thread.
No interest or too technical? There has been no press on this beyond the incorrect quote from Androvsky's post. No interest in the Sony LGPL disclosures and no effort to be accurate. Seems it has to have "Chrome" in the headline to be newsworthy.

It's not just Webkit, it's a connect the dots in what Sony has been doing for the last 2+ years on the XMB multi-media and applications side of the PS3.

One of my big questions was why there hasn't been much development on that side of the PS3 while Android and iOS have been kicking butt. The answer turns out they have been waiting for CairoGL rather than develop their own SVG engine & library. They have been waiting for standards and hardware to develop before they released their PS Suite and SVG rewrite/standard for Sony platforms & ecosystem.

Best quote from an article on what Web 2.0 means and worth the read, applies to Sony also
Google doesn't try to force things to happen their way. They try to figure out what's going to happen, and arrange to be standing there when it does. That's the way to approach technology—and as business includes an ever larger technological component, the right way to do business.
An example1: Xbox was the first to support DLNA and soon afterward Sony released DLNA for the PS3. It appears to those (included me) not plugged in that Sony released DLNA on the PS3 in response to Xbox. The truth is Sony created the DLNA standard (started it and was a part of the project and standards) and always had plans to include it in the PS3.

Example2: Sony and 4 others started the Marlin group in 2005 to produce DRM standards for the entire industry. The current ultraviolet adaptive streaming DRM enabled Gstreamer player used in the PS3 came out of that standard. Sony's name pops up in multiple organizations creating standards for the CE industry.

This is nearing the stage where it will become self-evident or I get my head chopped off because my neck is sticking out so far <grin>. (PS3 SVG rewrite & Gstreamer)

"making sure to get the blessing of either Google or Mozilla." The timing of the Mozilla talk may have had Sony talking to Mozilla about supporting not only HTML5 <video> with Gstreamer (already being done) but to support Gstreamer with Cairo bindings which had not been done by that date but had been proposed by Collabora a year earlier. Edit: It appears that Collabora was in collaboration with Firefox and may have been working for/with Sony at that time.

One of the themes in thread arguments seems to be that Sony is following Google's lead when I think it's a two way street with Sony having input on many issues.

That the Cell has 6 vector processing SPUs and Sony is now going Scalable Vector Graphics is not a coincidence (SVG has been a web standard since 1999) . In my opinion Collabora and Sony have a long relationship and Google, Opera and Mozilla (Firefox) have been talking/working with Sony for a long time on WebGL (the only standard that Microsoft will not support) and WebGL is going to include (the demos I posted in this thread) many trick SVG & webGL Gstreamer with Cairo bindings features.

Everyone appears to have it backwards, Sony is in part directing WebGL development not insuring that they follow standards set by Mozilla, Opera and Google.

*****The PS3 webkit port is based on the GTK+ webkit port.*****

For the why Sony is going with GTK read the following two PDF files. Be sure to notice the company names and technologies mentioned.

Watch this 2007 GTK PDF on the History and future of Webkit Hildon UI @ April 2007: Nokia N800 and Browsing on the N800
2008 GTK+ Lecture PDF has features now used by PS3 and Mentions the Hildon UI library with examples (Listed in PS3 Webkit library)

The Hildon UI will be in the NGP and possibly the PS3 along with full screen mode. Look at the examples in the above PDFs.

Below is a thumbnail clip of a Nokia800 browser with Hildon UI elements around the web page. This may be the closest we can get to a guess as to how the NGP browser front end may look and possibly the PS3. Larger images are in both PDF files above. Combining Hildon SVG UI elements with Sony custom Cairo SVG UI element scripts for POSIX calls (GTK SVG UI replaced with Sony SVG UI) for the front end. This I guess for a common GUI theme across all Sony platforms.



Libraries listed in PS3 LGPL webkit disclosure:

$(CAIRO_LIBS) \ Cairo SVG library*
+ $(COVERAGE_LDFLAGS) \
+ $(ENCHANT_LIBS) \...............Front end API for a spell checker and more
+ $(FREETYPE_LIBS) \...............SVG default Font Library
+ $(GAIL_LIBS) \
+ $(GEOCLUE_LIBS) \.....No need for this on the PS3, NGP will use! Requires a GPS chipset.
+ $(GLIB_LIBS) \
+ $(GSTREAMER_LIBS) \ Gstreamer AV library *Gstreamer with Cairo bindings
+ $(GTK_LIBS) \
+ $(HILDON_LIBS) \ Hildon SVG UI library see pictures in PDF above
+ $(JPEG_LIBS) \
+ $(LIBSOUP_LIBS) \
+ $(LIBXML_LIBS) \
+ $(LIBXSLT_LIBS) \
+ $(PANGO_LIBS) \ International Fonts Cairo-pango = example gallery
+ $(PNG_LIBS) \
+ $(SQLITE3_LIBS) \
+ $(UNICODE_LIBS) \
+ $(XT_LIBS) \
+ $(WINMM_LIBS) \
+ $(SHLWAPI_LIBS) \
+ $(OLE32_LIBS)

Other applications using Hildon UI library:
http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2007/06/nokia-pushes-hildon-upstream.ars
https://live.gnome.org/Hildon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo

Hildon UI elements around the application/desktop screen




RANT: The above information has been available since Sony disclosed Feb 2011 with just a Google search. Apparently only Androvsky and I are actually digging for information.

The Hildon SVG UI can also be animated. The above and other Hildon UI examples include desktops for various embedded platforms. PS3 or NGP using something like these examples for the XMB or NGP desktop is open to discussion; IE will the XMB be redesigned and what features should be added.

Thanks for the comments from those that appreciate our posting information.

We now know the coming webkit browser will work like a Firefox backend and the above are examples of the UI elements that may make up the NGP and PS3 webkit front end. Newsworthy?

Background information somewhat Off topic but interesting:

Gstreamer development History Visualization Only 4 programmers worked on the core can be OEM or LGPL depending on what the owner of the code wishes. Opinion
Gstreamer Daemon overview
Gnome 3 shell development history video

There is a connection between Gstreamer-Collabora-GTK+-Gnome3-Hildon_Lib-Cairo SVG-Maemo in part in the past sponsored by Nokia, Intel, Texas Instrument. Looking at information for GTK+, Hildon and Gnome might give us an idea as to where Sony programmers are going with Webkit, the NGP and PS3.

 
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Schrade said:
Keep it up, Jeff. I'm silently reading along with your discoveries :)
Please understand I am an outsider looking at multiple web sites to GUESS at what Sony is and might be doing. I cite to allow others to correct me if I am wrong. In many cases my posts are logical trains of thought (speculation) and should not be considered Facts. The thread devolves when comment's like Massa's point out a hole (No LGPL disclosure for Gstreamer in PS3). That might have been answered but it still bothers me.

It may be too soon to accept this as fact but here goes:

http://n4g.com/news/746564/portal-2-this-is-steam-on-ps3/com
User comment:
also keep in mind that this steam-overlay consumes some of the PS3 RAM, the 360 version has no steam in-game thus no RAM-loss for the 360

and yet the PS3 is equal to the 360 version(or maybe even better? less blurry on the PS3?).

This is a whole other story than the orange box on the PS3, where the lack of instant reload was omitted on the PS3 due to RAM limitations.
No RAM limitations compared to Xbox360 version; Virtual memory or dynamic kernel?

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, there was talk last October about implementing Dynamic and flat tree model Kernel in embedded systems at a Linux hackfest in Europe sponsored in part by Gstreamer/Collabora. This would be a way to manage the potential larger size of the kernel with the added G-libC and webkit tools required for Web access in games. This might also allow cross game chat. Then again it could be Portal 2 properly managing resources. As I said too soon to know for sure.

Portal 2 release may explain the Sony PS3 LGPL disclosure for webkit before the "Webkit browser" is released on the PS3 (Portal 2 may be using more than the HTML5 Javascript engine previously disclosed (Nov 2010)).
 
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mr_nothin said:
Whoa, it's like the Matrix up in this bitch! lol
I love reading threads like this...too bad it's about a browser though. Keep up the investigation.
Thanks, reread bottom of message 352 above, pictures of what the Browser front end may look like. This may also apply to application UIs on all Sony platforms.

Open Office has now forked, it's SVG based also; http://www.libreoffice.org/download/new-features-and-fixes/
 
Feb 10, 2009
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jeff_rigby said:
Please understand I am an outsider looking at multiple web sites to GUESS at what Sony is and might be doing. I cite to allow others to correct me if I am wrong. In many cases my posts are logical trains of thought (speculation) and should not be considered Facts. The thread devolves when comment's like Massa's point out a hole (No LGPL disclosure for Gstreamer in PS3). That might have been answered but it still bothers me.

It may be too soon to accept this as fact but here goes:

http://n4g.com/news/746564/portal-2-this-is-steam-on-ps3/com
User comment:

No RAM limitations compared to Xbox360 version; Virtual memory or dynamic kernel?

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, there was talk last October about implementing Dynamic and flat tree model Kernel in embedded systems at a Linux hackfest in Europe sponsored in part by Gstreamer/Collabora. This would be a way to manage the potential larger size of the kernel with the added G-libC and webkit tools required for Web access in games. This might also allow cross game chat. Then again it could be Portal 2 properly managing resources. As I said too soon to know for sure.

Portal 2 release may explain the Sony PS3 LGPL disclosure for webkit before the "Webkit browser" is released on the PS3 (Portal 2 may be using more than the HTML5 Javascript engine previously disclosed (Nov 2010)).
The reason why Portal 2 looks sharper on PS3 is different method of anti-aliasing - PS3 version uses clean MLAA while Xbox 360 version uses edge detect + blur filter. It has absolutely nothing to do with RAM management.
 
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jeff_rigby said:
Please understand I am an outsider looking at multiple web sites to GUESS at what Sony is and might be doing. I cite to allow others to correct me if I am wrong. In many cases my posts are logical trains of thought (speculation) and should not be considered Facts. The thread devolves when comment's like Massa's point out a hole (No LGPL disclosure for Gstreamer in PS3). That might have been answered but it still bothers me.

It may be too soon to accept this as fact but here goes:

http://n4g.com/news/746564/portal-2-this-is-steam-on-ps3/com
User comment:

No RAM limitations compared to Xbox360 version; Virtual memory or dynamic kernel?

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, there was talk last October about implementing Dynamic and flat tree model Kernel in embedded systems at a Linux hackfest in Europe sponsored in part by Gstreamer/Collabora. This would be a way to manage the potential larger size of the kernel with the added G-libC and webkit tools required for Web access in games. This might also allow cross game chat. Then again it could be Portal 2 properly managing resources. As I said too soon to know for sure.

Portal 2 release may explain the Sony PS3 LGPL disclosure for webkit before the "Webkit browser" is released on the PS3 (Portal 2 may be using more than the HTML5 Javascript engine previously disclosed (Nov 2010)).
And with this, I realize that the thread is nothing more than a madhouse, :lol.
 
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Lagspike_exe said:
The reason why Portal 2 looks sharper on PS3 is different method of anti-aliasing - PS3 version uses clean MLAA while Xbox 360 version uses edge detect + blur filter. It has absolutely nothing to do with RAM management.
also keep in mind that this steam-overlay consumes some of the PS3 RAM, the 360 version has no steam in-game thus no RAM-loss for the 360

and yet the PS3 is equal to the 360 version(or maybe even better? less blurry on the PS3?).

This is a whole other story than the orange box on the PS3, where the lack of instant reload was omitted on the PS3 due to RAM limitations.
Steam Overlay = webkit or partial webkit plus support libraries either part of Portal 2 or supplied by the PS3 OS.

The point was not the AA being used but that the PS3 with 256 megs of RAM was running essentially the same program + webkit that the Xbox does with 512meg without webkit.

Webkit can be just the Javascript engine (7 megs) + minimal DOM (guess 2 megs) or the full webkit (guess 27 megs) but that doesn't include the includes like the OpenGL library, GlibC or Cairo or Fonts, those are normally part of the System and not counted toward the memory webkit or browser requires.

Too soon to tell if Portal 2 is managing memory and using virtual memory or if the PS3 is using a different kernel model. Point is that if Portal 2 can do it other programs can.

And loosely, if the PS3 Portal 2 version looks sharper then shortcuts, to use less shader and game assets (Collada) because of memory limitations, were not taken.

All PS3 models have a hard disk thus virtual memory and dynamic kernel should have been part of the PS3 OS since day one (it wasn't). The Xbox360 on the other hand has or had models without hard disk so making VM or Dynamic kernel a feature in the Xbox OS does not make sense thus the NEED for more memory.

4 Gig of virtual memory was added to the PS3 several years after release. The PS3 has used a fixed "Snapshot Kernel" (one for the game side and one for the Multi-media and application side) since nearly day one and that MIGHT have changed.
 
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MrPliskin said:
And with this, I realize that the thread is nothing more than a madhouse, :lol.
Some of it true because people are people. Some of this thread is pointing out the OBVIOUS and finding facts using the information given us by Sony in their legally required disclosure.

IF you distrust the opinions and speculation of others, use the cites to create your own. That's the point of my disclaimer.....do your own research to confirm....be part of the discussion. You might give a different viewpoint that would be appreciated.
 
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Latest news on Sony S1 and S2 as well as the PSN attack.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13193891


The S1 and S2 as they are currently named, will be running on Android Honeycomb OS and although details are a little sketchy at the present time, we do know that the media based S1 will include a 9.4-inch single screen and the S2 will incorporate a dual-screen clamshell design with 5.5-inch displays, Tegra 2 SoC and so on.
 
Feb 10, 2009
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jeff_rigby said:
Steam Overlay = webkit or partial webkit plus support libraries either part of Portal 2 or supplied by the PS3 OS.

The point was not the AA being used but that the PS3 with 256 megs of RAM was running essentially the same program + webkit that the Xbox does with 512meg without webkit.

Webkit can be just the Javascript engine (7 megs) + minimal DOM (guess 2 megs) or the full webkit (guess 27 megs) but that doesn't include the includes like the OpenGL library, GlibC or Cairo or Fonts, those are normally part of the System and not counted toward the memory webkit or browser requires.

Too soon to tell if Portal 2 is managing memory and using virtual memory or if the PS3 is using a different kernel model. Point is that if Portal 2 can do it other programs can.

And loosely, if the PS3 Portal 2 version looks sharper then shortcuts, to use less shader and game assets (Collada) because of memory limitations, were not taken.

All PS3 models have a hard disk thus virtual memory and dynamic kernel should have been part of the PS3 OS since day one (it wasn't). The Xbox360 on the other hand has or had models without hard disk so making VM or Dynamic kernel a feature in the Xbox OS does not make sense thus the NEED for more memory.

4 Gig of virtual memory was added to the PS3 several years after release. The PS3 has used a fixed "Snapshot Kernel" (one for the game side and one for the Multi-media and application side) since nearly day one and that MIGHT have changed.
PS3 has 512 MB of RAM (256 MB of XDR + 256 MB of VRAM).

The fact that Portal looks identical on both platforms even with Steam doesn't mean anything. It's possible that Valve targeted for example 450 MB of RAM, added Steam on PS3, while leaving it empty on 360. And I really, really doubt Steam had a major RAM effect.
 
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Lagspike_exe said:
PS3 has 512 MB of RAM (256 MB of XDR + 256 MB of VRAM).

The fact that Portal looks identical on both platforms even with Steam doesn't mean anything. It's possible that Valve targeted for example 450 MB of RAM, added Steam on PS3, while leaving it empty on 360. And I really, really doubt Steam had a major RAM effect.
Quite possible and too soon to tell if it means anything RE: dynamic kernel or how Sony is going to support Webkit on the game side or if it impacts XMB cross game chat.

Point is it's the first to use webkit and this issue is in my opinion worth discussion and it's a far cry from "I realize that the thread is nothing more than a madhouse".

Post from 2007
It should be remembered that the PS3 makes 256MB of main memory available for applications (and 256 for VRAM/textures, etc..).

"First, the base memory footprint of the PS3 OS in main memory has been reduced from 56 MB to 52 MB. These values will lead to some confusion, as we’ve previously reported that the memory footprint was 64 MB. 8MB of memory was given back to developers sometime before Christmas, and now a further 4 MB has been returned. Currently, as of SDK 1.60, the PS3 operating system takes up 52 MB of main memory and 32 MB of graphics memory (84 MB total). As a comparison, the Xbox 360 still only uses 32 MB of shared memory for all its system utilities."

"We have also learned that processing-wise, games are expected to maintain at least 30 frames per second, regardless of how much CPU time is used by the OS. Specifically, there is a Sony technical requirement that states that titles cannot rely on the CPU processing speed. There is no explicit ceiling set on how much processing time the OS can use through its higher priority threads."

"Full support of the NP Friend List utility is currently a staggering 24MB of extra memory (on top of the 8MB needed for the startup). This utility provides the support of the NP friend’s list, allowing players to add, remove, block and communicate with their friends along with the corresponding GUI interface. The extraneous demand on memory has been met with with concern from developers." (And here Cairo and webkit tools could replace this code with possibly a net -0- change in memory useage.)

...
All this may explain why PS3 games seem to be lagging 360 titles at the moment. With "NP friend list" support, the PS3 is down to (256-52-24-8 = 172) 172MB of main RAM (which should still be heaps for most applications).

Still - that number is much lower than the (512-32 = 480) 480MB of main memory available for use on the 360 (although this is shared with textures/VRAM, etc..).

This also sounds to me like development on the PS3 is in its "early" stages, and that the console will be significantly better in 2-3 years time.
There is an on-going effort by Sony to reduce the size of the PS3 OS usage especially on the Game side. Adding webkit and support libraries is going to exacerbate that issue. How that's handled is worth discussion. The Cairo rewrite alone, going from bitmap graphics (pictures) to vector graphics (descriptions) for GUI & Font libraries will reduce in size and might result in a net gain in free memory but Webkit and includes is going to reduce free memory.

http://research.scee.net/files/presentations/acgirussia/Hardware_Overview_ACGI_09.pdf
2009 Figures
• Local Memory
–249MB usable (256MB – 7MB reserved by OS)
• System Memory
–213MB usable (256MB – 43MB reserved by OS)
–RSX™ usable through memory mapping by application
in 1MB blocks
So the PS3 still uses 18 megs more memory than the Xbox which I assume is just for the game side of the PS3. The multi-media application side of the PS3 has the Theme which uses an additional 4-8 megs, the media players (multiple) and more.
 
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It appears that PSN will be up for us after a PS3 firmware update on Tuesday. We will be required to choose another password when we sign on for the first time.

Edit: No new store GUI was mentioned in the article, I goofed. All other (Slightly edited) speculation is correct but may be premature.

Some time after the Webkit update we will have a New PSN Store GUI. Old Screenshot of Store below.



I suspect that the new store GUI is going to be using the new Webkit & Cairo SVG. If R3 and then R2 Zoom out, L2 Zoom in this new Store GUI then we will have our answer.

A KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) common User interface theme is an important part of an ecosystem and I suspect that the new store GUI will reflect coming changes to the PS3 GUI.

The right and left arrows at either edge of the screen or the headers at the top of the window take one to screens stacked beside each other similar to the XMB. VUDU and others use a similar arrangement.

The "Home" Client that runs under Lua with Cairo bindings (my opinion since 1.4) has been updated already with version 1.5. You can download that now by attempting to sign onto Home.

The move to SVG graphics for PSN sites would have any PS3 that hasn't updated to the latest PS3 firmware unable to view or use the PS Network. IT will also make the older Hacked Firmware & Hacked PS3s less desirable when Applications start coming for the PS3 after the Webkit upgrade and Cairo rewrite.

SVG graphics will reduce Server load and speed up the entire PSN experience, everything will be faster.
 
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As long as they make the text and game icons bigger. It's damn near impossible to read anything on my 32" SDTV from anywhere but within 5' away. (It's fine on my HD, but bigger text is always welcome.)
 
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Blimblim said:
Yes it's the old UI. But now it's WEBKIT BASED so it's awesome.
Well probably Zoomable and easily changed on the Fly. Probably multiple versions will be user selectable. There might be a Netflix type testing phase to find the most liked UI. They may go nuts with automatic Zooming, I would <grin>. Moving a mouse cursor over a window and it zooms out (a small amount) automatically to indicate it's selected. Greater Zoom with R3.
 
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jeff_rigby said:
It appears that PSN will be up for us after a PS3 firmware update on Tuesday. We will be required to choose another password when we sign on for the first time.

After the update we will have a New PSN Store GUI.



I suspect that the above new store GUI is going to be using the new Webkit & Cairo SVG. If R3 and then R2 Zoom out, L2 Zoom in this new Store GUI then we will have our answer.

A KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) common User interface theme is an important part of an ecosystem and I suspect that the new store GUI reflects coming changes to the PS3 GUI.

The right and left arrows at either edge of the screen or the headers at the top of the window take one to screens stacked beside each other similar to the XMB. VUDU and others use a similar arrangement.

The "Home" Client that runs under Lua with Cairo bindings (my opinion since 1.4) has been updated already with version 1.5. You can download that now by attempting to sign onto Home.

The move to SVG graphics for PSN sites would have any PS3 that hasn't updated to the latest PS3 firmware unable to view or use the PS Network. IT will also make the older Hacked Firmware & Hacked PS3s less desirable when Applications start coming for the PS3 after the Webkit upgrade and Cairo rewrite.
What's the source on there being a new store GUI after the update next week?

I do enjoy reading this thread though, I think you've found some useful information jeff_rigby.
 
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Withnail said:
What's the source on there being a new store GUI after the update next week?

I do enjoy reading this thread though, I think you've found some useful information jeff_rigby.
http://www.product-reviews.net/2011/04/28/new-ps3-firmware-update-may-2011-down-to-psn-outage/

Before anyone else says it, It appears I didn't read the article carefully enough and no new store GUI was announced. The article had a picture of the old GUI and was referencing the leak of PSN information.
 
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Withnail said:
That doesn't say there will be a new store GUI. It just says there will be a firmware update next week which we already knew because Sony mentioned it in their latest FAQ on the PSN problems. For some reason that site is illustrating the article with a picture of the old store interface.
Jumped the gun, new PS3 Firmware was mentioned.

With all the issues that Sony has with the PlayStation Network we have now learned that there is to be a new PS3 firmware update for May 2011, which is down to the PSN outage. This will also mean that users will finally be allowed on to their accounts. We would’ve advised that you change your password on your PSN account, but the PS3 update will force you to do so.
In other sites Sony is quoted as saying a week from last Tuesday as to when PSN will be up again. Tuesday is a typical Firmware update day of the week.

We will be required to choose a new password.

And this is true also; The move to SVG graphics for PSN sites would have any PS3 that hasn't updated to the latest PS3 firmware unable to view or use the PS Network. IT will also make the older Hacked Firmware & Hacked PS3s less desirable when Applications start coming for the PS3 after the Webkit upgrade and Cairo rewrite.

SVG graphics will reduce Server load and speed up the entire PSN experience, everything will be faster.

There are multiple advantages for Sony to move to SVG as soon as possible. Small projects like the PSN Store are ideal as webkit first steps in the PS3.
 
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jeff_rigby said:
Jumped the gun, new PS3 Firmware was mentioned.
.
Yeah no worries, I must say it took me a while to recognise it as the old interface.

Sony did say that the new FW would force a password update. There's a new SDK going out to developers as well according to Gamasutra yesterday.
 
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Withnail said:
Yeah no worries, I must say it took me a while to recognise it as the old interface.

Sony did say that the new FW would force a password update. There's a new SDK going out to developers as well according to Gamasutra yesterday.
I normally read and reread articles to insure I have correctly understood what it's saying. I was excited to finally have an answer as to when PSN would be up again and seeing the Store GUI + PSN update, I posted what I expected would be the next step made by Sony in the use of Cairo and webkit.

1) Hulu and other IPTV sites are the first use of a partial webkit (Javascript engine with CairoGL bindings)
2) Portal 2 First possible use of full Webkit; Javascript engine and possibly the Core DOM using CairoGL

Next step might be:
PSN Store, second use of GTKWebkit Webview http://www.atoker.com/webkit/webkitgtk-fosdem08.pdf

Introducing WebView
Write a browser in a dozen lines
import gtk This is in the Webkit disclosure (GTK_Lib)
import webkit
view = webkit.WebView()
sw = gtk.ScrolledWindow() (or fixed PSN Store window with different call)
sw.add(view)
win = gtk.Window(gtk.WINDOW_TOPLEVEL)
win.add(sw)
win.show_all()
view.open("http://planet.gnome.org/")
gtk.main()WebView modes

The inclusion of the GTK & GAIL librarys in the webkit port may mean that Gnome3 Linux desktop applications are easily portable to the PS3.

$(CAIRO_LIBS) \ Cairo SVG library*
+ $(COVERAGE_LDFLAGS) \
+ $(ENCHANT_LIBS) \...............Front end API for a spell checker and more
+ $(FREETYPE_LIBS) \...............SVG default Font Library
+ $(GAIL_LIBS) \
+ $(GEOCLUE_LIBS) \.....No need for this on the PS3, NGP will use! Requires a GPS chipset.
+ $(GLIB_LIBS) \
+ $(GSTREAMER_LIBS) \ Gstreamer AV library *Gstreamer with Cairo bindings
+ $(GTK_LIBS) \
+ $(HILDON_LIBS) \ Hildon SVG UI library
+ $(JPEG_LIBS) \
+ $(LIBSOUP_LIBS) \
+ $(LIBXML_LIBS) \
+ $(LIBXSLT_LIBS) \
+ $(PANGO_LIBS) \ International Fonts Cairo-pango = SVG international fonts
+ $(PNG_LIBS) \
+ $(SQLITE3_LIBS) \
+ $(UNICODE_LIBS) \
+ $(XT_LIBS) \
+ $(WINMM_LIBS) \
+ $(SHLWAPI_LIBS) \
+ $(OLE32_LIBS)

The Sony SNAP developer program (applications for Sony Networked Platforms) was put on Hold before it was even completed. NO GUI toolkit or theme was developed. While Glib, Gstreamer and Cairo are included in all 2011 networked platforms and the PS3, (Assume NGP gets the same libraries) only the PS3 has Webkit and GTK toolkit libraries. Sony TV's and Blu-ray players have Opera browsers and can support Opera widgets. The PS3 and NGP will not support Opera widgets but can support WebkitGTK widgets and possibly Gnome3 desktop applications/widgets and maybe more.

Native language applications can still be supported with SNAP but a different toolkit/GUI would seem to be needed with the schism between TV-Bluray and PS3-NGP . It will be harder to support all SNAP platforms with the same code. So as speculated something changed after the initial Posting of SNAP in April 2010.

Did Sony get wind of Microsoft and MANY Silverlight 5 applications coming for the Xbox and/or the coming Wii 2 and felt that the above which could give the PS3 many applications and possibly a mini-Linux (like Maemo) Sony flavor of a Linux Matchbox desktop & applications on the PS3 was needed? Xwindows support is not needed in the GTKwebkit. All speculation and biased by hope.

http://matchbox-project.org/screenshots.html

Notice the Sugar UI in the above link and Picture below looks like the NGP screen. This was given as an example of a Linux Matchbox but it doesn't use Xwindows. Icons arranged in a circle. That doesn't mean much just that the same Open source software authors that designed the Sugar interface influenced the NGP (it's in GTK PDFs above) WebKit and OLPC (One Laptop Per Child) WebKit/GTK+ Sugar activity done by Dan Winship (Red Hat) in one day. It's about as KISS as you can get, designed for age 6-12 third world. <Ouch>



In the above link to Matchbook examples, Maemo matchbook does use Cairo SVG, Pango, Gstreamer, Hildon_Lib, webkit and GTK_lib (or QT can be used) which are in the PS3 webkit disclosure. Xwindows is also needed which is NOT in the disclosure. Many of the screenshots give examples of what applications on the PS3 and NGP may look like, just delete the pure Xwindows features.

Nokia was behind QT toolkit development but has signed with MS to offer Windows 7 on it's phones Several months ago. Maemo can be built with either the QT or GTK+ toolkit. It appears that GTK+ has the better webkit implementation due to Alp Toker's (Gstreamer/Collabora) Webkit/Cairo Gstreamer with Cairo bindings innovation. Again, the PS3 webkit port is based on the latest GTK+ webkit.

I keep seeing some of the same names associated with these projects. It's hard to pin down what that means for us. I'm getting and I hope readers are getting an idea of where the coming PS3 & NGP Webkit and tools are coming from. What Sony does with the tools is a big open question.

The webkit tools appear to give Sony a lot of potential. Designing an ecosystem with a common KISS GUI theme with multiple controllers and platforms is, I would think, a big job; probably equal to actually porting the tools. Getting Ideas from those already using the tools is I think probable.
 
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For the NGP Sony has used ideas from other open source projects like the Sugar UI from One Laptop Per Child. For the S1 probably the Meego remote control for TV. So ideas from Maemo, Meego, Sugar UI (All Matchbox Linux and suited for limited resource and Embedded platforms.) and others I may yet still find using the GTK Toolkit, Hildon GUI icons and GTK webkit.

I believe the PS3 is going to get GUI changes. The S1 and PS3 may be closer to each other in GUI features sharing as they do Multi-media control and presentation (play). The hard disk in the PS3 and connection to the living room TV will play a major part in the ecosystem with all Sony platforms and I believe it is the key and will get many interesting applications.

Watch OLPC video, One Laptop Per child. Explains the features in this $100 laptop (actual cost $188 and dropping).

http://one.laptop.org/about/hardware You will recognize some NGP features, written with the same webkit and toolkit coming to the PS3 and NGP.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/olpc/3027607025/

Software applications
Click on the Icons for these 32 OPEN SOURCE applications. READ them *Important* Some may come to the PS3 and NGP.

a basic home screen with a stick-figure icon at the center, surrounded by a white ring. The entire desktop has a black frame with more icons. This runic setup signifies the student at the middle. The ring contains programs the student is running, which can be launched by clicking the appropriate icon in the black frame. All applications run full screen with the black GUI menu frame only appearing when the cursor moves off screen or at magic spots on the screen.



When the student opts to view the entire "neighborhood" -- the XO's preferred term instead of "desktop" -- other stick figures in different colors might appear on the screen. Those indicate schoolmates who are nearby, as detected by the computers' built-in wireless networking capability.

neighborhood =Near
The Neighborhood view displays all the connected XO laptops within a child's community, and their shared activities. This provides a great space for discovering new things and making new friends.

friends groups
The Friends Groups view shows the people closest to the child, enabling interaction with their friends and the ability to join their shared activities. The Icon in the center represents the activity and the Icons around that activity represent the children engaged in that activity.


And below the NGP screen with the same functionality seen above in the OLPC Sugar interface. Just better icons in the NGP.


***********************
http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2011/01/29/hirai_ngp_details/ said:
Internally, NGP uses an original games-oriented operating system, revealed Hirai. It's not Android. Different from the PSP, the OS has a modern framework akin to a PC.
OLPC is a eLinux educational games oriented OS which uses the same GTKwebkit the PS3 is getting and Sony has said that the PS3 and Vita are going to share libraries. Gtktoolkit & webkit plus support libraries gives the PS3 and Vita, if I am correct, a modern framework akin to a PC.

***********************

Information from Sugar that may apply to us: 1) It's built using Python by a Red Hat software engineer in one day. The Vita may have as a core OS webkit and support libraries and a Python interpreter. Edit: Mono could be used instead of Python.

The laptop's hardware limitations have led to much clearer and simpler user interface design, harking back to the early days of the computer. The project's stated goal is to "avoid bloated interfaces", and "limit the controls to those immediately relevant to the task at hand".[4] Applications run full screen; there is no double clicking; and menus are iconic.
http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/01/the-sugar-ui.html
The frame menu makes perfect use of the infinite width at the edges of the screen.
It abandons files and folders as an organizing concept.
The start page, a ring of running tasks around a student, is a type of pie menu, which is a no-frills version of mouse gestures.
The seamless integration of collaboration and sharing-- with or without the internet-- is very Web 2.0.
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Making_Sugar_icons
Scalable Vector Graphics
Icons designed for Sugar must use the SVG file format. This Scalable Vector Graphic format allows Sugar to dynamically scale and color the icons without any degradation in quality. Thus, variably sized representations of particular icons may exist depending on their context in the interface. Additionally, this provides support for dynamic coloring of activity and object icons based upon a child's chosen XO colors, imbuing them with identity.
 
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The Coming PS3 webkit browser will support HTML5, webGL and SVG.

Possibles:

1) 3D from within the browser
2) WebGL games
3) Remote PC desktop

http://www.supportsmith.com/ThinVNC/HTML5-VNC.aspx

ThinVNC is pure-web Remote Desktop solution. The remote computer can be accessed from any OS platform through any HTML5 compliant browser (Firefox, Google Chrome, Safari, etc.).

ThinVNC takes advantage of the latest web technologies like AJAX, JSON and HTML5 canvas to deliver a high-performance Remote Desktop access over the web, using HTTP and SSL protocols.

Without the need for any plugin, add-on or any kind of installation on the client side, ThinVNC is the optimum way to ensure that you can connect to your remote computer from any place.

ThinVNC is free for non-commercial use. It works on Windows 2000/XP/2003/Vista/Win 7/Windows Server 2008. While accessing remotely on a pure-web mode, ThinVNC is compatible with any Operating System and any HTML5 compliant browser.
4) Remote Linux desktop
http://www.techworld.com.au/article/345260/need_desktop_access_over_web_try_some_guacamole/
A new open source project dubbed Guacamole allows users to access a desktop remotely through a Web browser, potentially streamlining the requirements for client support and administration.

Guacamole is a HTML5 and JavaScript (Ajax) VNC viewer, which makes use of a VNC-to-XML proxy server written in Java.

According to its developers, Guacamole is almost as responsive as native VNC and should work in any browser supporting the HTML5 canvas tag.
Pasteboard and clipboard functions appear to be supported in the webkit (posix area of PS3 DIFF file) which would make the above very usable on a PS3.

Libraries included (in addition to Webkit to support webkit): On closer examination many of the libraries below can't be for the PS3, Android or NGP ; there are Linux desktop (Gnome = GAIL_libs and Xwindows= XT_LIBS) and Windows support libraries. The library names don't match repository names so they are Sony internal libraries. I'm at a loss for them to be included in the PS3 LGPL disclosure. Extreme oversight or are they going to be used for something? Sony Ecosystem accessories or is Sony planning on providing their own browser on all POSIX platforms that they sell, Vaio laptops (WINDOWS), LINUX (Sony does have a line of Linux notebooks), PS3, NGP, Android and eventually TVs and Blu-ray players so they can support webkit related open source programs.

The inclusion of the GTK & GAIL librarys in the webkit port may mean that Gnome3 Linux desktop applications are easily portable to the PS3. These and other applications I believe coming for the PS3 would be LGPL and would need to be disclosed so I expect more disclosures @ http://downloads.snei-opensource.com/pub/webkit/ over the coming months.

There will be a set of desktop applications from Sony free and then Sony and third party applications for Sale in the PSN store. (Sony SNAP developer). The PS3 is not an open system; best we can hope is that applications will be inexpensive and plentiful.

$(CAIRO_LIBS) \ Cairo SVG library
+ $(COVERAGE_LDFLAGS) \
+ $(ENCHANT_LIBS) \...............Front end API for a spell checker and more. Needed because of multiple language spell checker backends
+ $(FREETYPE_LIBS) \...............Default Font Library & Pango is supposed to be included in latest version
+ $(GAIL_LIBS) \......................GNOME Accessibility Implementation Library
+ $(GEOCLUE_LIBS) \...............No need for this on the PS3, NGP will use!
+ $(GLIB_LIBS) \......................low level C cross platform lib (needed for just about everything webkit & cairo & Gstreamer)
+ $(GSTREAMER_LIBS) \...........Gstreamer AV library *
+ $(GTK_LIBS) \.......................GTK toolkit library Implements many of the Xwindows GDK wrapper functions without needing Xwindows or GDK
+ $(HILDON_LIBS) \..................Icons and control panels (touchscreen
+ $(JPEG_LIBS) \......................Jpeg compression picture library (Video too?)
+ $(LIBSOUP_LIBS) \................HTTP library
+ $(LIBXML_LIBS) \
+ $(LIBXSLT_LIBS) \
+ $(PANGO_LIBS) \...................International Fonts Cairo-pango = SVG international fonts eventually to be part of Freetype above.
+ $(PNG_LIBS) \.......................PNG picture library
+ $(SQLITE3_LIBS) \.................Data Base Library

+ $(UNICODE_LIBS) \
+ $(XT_LIBS) \.........................Xwindows libraries?
+ $(WINMM_LIBS) \..................Windows Multi-Media library or following conventions the mm = C++ so C++ Windows library?
+ $(SHLWAPI_LIBS) \ wrapper functions convert the Unicode input string parameters to ANSI and call ANSI versions of functions
+ $(OLE32_LIBS)

Supporting some of the above speculation: Job opening Webkit Software engineer 4/22/2011

The above date probably puts speculation on a PS3 Webkit release date off a few months. It's not just webkit, it's the front end, applications and ecosystem GUI. With webkit, GTK tools, Hildon library and GAIL (Gnome Application Interface) in the PS3, writing Webkit related Open source programs is MUCH easier. IE the OLPC Sugar activity written in one day (NGP Near) and opening a HTML5 application window on the PS3 with 7 lines.

Sony Network Entertainment Inc.
Position Title: Senior Software Engineer-WebKit
Department: Device Software Development
Locations: San Jose, CA, USA and San Francisco, CA, USA

Job Summary: The Sony Network Entertainment Senior Software Engineer-WebKit will join a dynamic team of experienced engineers developing WebKit and related open source software for the Playstation3, Sony Android devices, and other Sony consumer electronics products.

BS or higher in Computer Science or Engineering.
Five or more years of relevant software development experience.
Knowledge of Web standards; HTML, CSS, JavaScript, DOM.
Open source software development experience.
Software development using Linux and GNU toolchains.
Expert at C/C++ programing.

Desirable:

HTML 5 and/or JavaScript programming experience.
WebKit, Cairo, or Pixman internals experience.......(Much Pixman code in Cairo)
Graphics programming with OpenGL or similar experience.
Software optimization work; Vector and/or graphics optimizations a plus.
Programming vector processors; Cell Broadband Engine and SPUs a plus.
Software development using Playstation3 dev-tool and PS3 SDK.
Just in case you want to look for yourself the parent link on the Sony server is: http://downloads.snei-opensource.com/

Possibly SNAP was put on hold because PS Suite for Games and Applications requiring native language performance and Webkit widgets and/or Hybrid HTML5 & native language for all other applications eliminates the need for SNAP.
 
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jeff_rigby said:
Quite possible and too soon to tell if it means anything RE: dynamic kernel or how Sony is going to support Webkit on the game side or if it impacts XMB cross game chat.

Point is it's the first to use webkit and this issue is in my opinion worth discussion and it's a far cry from "I realize that the thread is nothing more than a madhouse".

Post from 2007
There is an on-going effort by Sony to reduce the size of the PS3 OS usage especially on the Game side. Adding webkit and support libraries is going to exacerbate that issue. How that's handled is worth discussion. The Cairo rewrite alone, going from bitmap graphics (pictures) to vector graphics (descriptions) for GUI & Font libraries will reduce in size and might result in a net gain in free memory but Webkit and includes is going to reduce free memory.

http://research.scee.net/files/presentations/acgirussia/Hardware_Overview_ACGI_09.pdf
2009 Figures
So the PS3 still uses 18 megs more memory than the Xbox which I assume is just for the game side of the PS3. The multi-media application side of the PS3 has the Theme which uses an additional 4-8 megs, the media players (multiple) and more.
http://www.computerandvideogames.co...turn-with-cross-game-chat-in-game-video-chat/

Sony's PlayStation Network could return following recently enforced down time with a number of heavily requested user features.

In what would appear to be a bid to appease consumers over the service's outage, the platform holder may be planning to introduce cross-game chat and even in-game video chat "to name a few" new features.

That's according to an Engadget forum poster claiming to be a Sony Computer Entertainment employee.

"As we are rebuilding the network, we are taking into consideration in implementing features such as cross game chat and in-game video chat to name a few," they wrote on the site in response to user queries about the PSN down time.

"I cannot confirm any new features at this time but expect a massive update when the network is restored.

While this should be taken with a pinch of salt for now, the forum user in question has been posting reliable PlayStation news and info on Engadget for a number of months."
Dynamic kernel or some method to free up more memory to allow Cross game chat and in game video chat. I noticed that during a recent firmware update the hard disk activity light was flashing rather quickly for an extended amount of time. This could have been a search for illegal software or an indexing for dynamic kernel. That plus the required webkit LGPL disclosure for use by Portal 2? Webkit Tools ready for use by Chat applications in 3.61?

As I've said before, a move to SVG and other OS changes will probably make older firmware PS3s unable to function with the new PSN without updates.
 
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the psych ward
www.twitch.tv
jeff_rigby said:
http://www.computerandvideogames.co...turn-with-cross-game-chat-in-game-video-chat/

Dynamic kernel or some method to free up more memory to allow Cross game chat and in game video chat. I noticed that during a recent firmware update the hard disk activity light was flashing rather quickly for an extended amount of time. This could have been a search for illegal software or an indexing for dynamic kernel. That plus the required webkit LGPL disclosure for use by Portal 2? Webkit Tools ready for use by Chat applications in 3.61?
I call bullshit. It has specifically been said Sony hasn't implemented cross game chat due to certain developers (EA) not wanting it. Even if that's not the case though It won't happen this gen. It's too close to being over for them to do it. I think at best we'll see it next gen from the start.

badcrumble said:
In-game video chat is pretty much a tip-off that that person was a liar.
Yup.
 
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PsychoRaven said:
I call bullshit. It has specifically been said Sony hasn't implemented cross game chat due to certain developers (EA) not wanting it. Even if that's not the case though It won't happen this gen. It's too close to being over for them to do it. I think at best we'll see it next gen from the start.

Yup.
I believe that it was said that the EA games recently released (Over a year ago now) would not work with the cross game Chat method that Sony was proposing at that time. EA kicked up a fuss and Sony dropped the idea.

It's now more that a year later and now Sony has/had a reason to try to fit webkit tools into the PS3 Game side of the PS3. IF they could do that then they might have also enabled cross game chat without impacting the free memory on the PS3 game side.

It's possible so while I won't consider this more than a rumor I won't call Bull*hit.

You missed the PS4 statements from Sony....more features for the PS3 to make it last longer.

There are several confusing issues.

1) Game chat be it video or Audio has to be implemented by the game and is possible now with a SDK released by Sony for the method of game chat.

2) XMB cross game chat is totally implemented by Sony and is supposed to work with all games using a method that is compatible and does not take any resources away from the game. Having video support for this is very doubtful.

The Video chat feature I expect might be a cross platform video chat not cross game video chat and only in the Applications side of the PS3. (There could be some confusion in the reporting). That's something that I expected with the coming Sony ecosystem. That could be released earlier and fit with the quoted statements (released early to appease us).

http://www.collabora.co.uk/projects/

Telepathy (Uses Gstreamer)
Telepathy is an open-source, real-time communications framework that is developed primarily by Collabora Ltd. Using Telepathy, businesses can build applications that can discover and communicate with users' contacts. Telepathy provides an abstraction over the underlying communications protocols and provides provides services such as text chat, voip and video, file transfers, and geolocation. Furthermore, the Telepathy Tubes API provides a simple and powerful mechanism for application-specific protocols to be used through Telepathy. "to provide multiplayer support in various GNOME games," Telepathy was used as the foundation for the activity sharing features of the One Laptop Per Child device. Using Telepathy Tubes and link-local XMPP, activies on the OLPC can easily locate nearby people and initiate collaborative activies with them.
Several messages above the Sugar Activity section in OLPC is the same as NEAR in the NGP. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=27486287&postcount=384 Which means that the NGP is using Telepathy by Collabora.

EDIT: From functionality the NGP is using Telepathy. This is normally too weak an argument to make an absolute statement like this. Telepathy requires gstreamer and integrates with Gstreamer in the PS3. Any other code used for this feature does not make sense. From low level to higher level: LibnICE - Telepathy - Gstreamer - Farstream - Chat program front end

Looking at the features in Telepathy do you think it would be useful for a Remote Desktop feature between Sony platforms? " to enable collaborative editing in the AbiWord word processor." That's essentially a multi-user for one word-processor where everyone sees the same thing. Remote desktop is just a short extension of this.

Does anyone start to see the connections between Collabora - Gstreamer - Sony - Alp Tolker of Collabora - WebkitGTK+ .

Farstream (Uses Gstreamer)
Collabora is the founder and maintainer of Farstream, an audio and video conferencing framework. With Farstream, businesses can easily create a multi-platform, multi-user audio/video conference solution that supports a wide range of codecs. Simply put, Farstream (formerly Farsight) is an advanced VoIP/video streaming engine capable of dealing with all known audio/video conferencing protocols.
http://gnomedesktop.org/node/4072
Empathy is an instant messaging client build on top of Telepathy. Currently it supports presence, chatting (both p2p and chatrooms), voice and video calling for a variety of protocols, including but not limited to XMPP, link-local XMPP, MSN, SIP, Yahoo, ICQ etc. Empathy uses GStreamer, Farsight and Telepathy to support VoIP and video calling.
From lower level to upper level: LibnICE - Telepathy - Farstream2 - Empathy

Programs to connect Sony platforms to ANY standard Instant Messaging or VOIP & video protocol. Total cross platform support from Sony in their ecosystem (and possibly outside it) and Media support via Qriocity to all platforms.
 
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*******************Important*************************************

Alp Toker lecture Sept 2007 GTK+ webkit with Gstreamer and Cairo This may have been the lecture that resulted in a PS3 DEV kit being sent to Collabora. Sony may have decided 9/5/2007 to go with the GTK+webkit and were waiting for a Webkit release (March 2011) and Cairo release that supported WebGL (Feb 2011) before porting it to the PS3.

Edit: CEA -2014 Web-based Protocol and Framework for Remote User Interface on UPnP Networks and the Internet (Web4CE) STANDARD published 07/01/2007 by Consumer Electronics Association. The FCC in 2010 mandated that all cable companies must implement it by June 2014. It's been updated to use HTML5 & HTML5 <video> (video element) with CEA-2014B in 2011 and became DLNA CVP2.

Three years ago, this was posted about the above lecture: http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2007/12/html5-video-support-in-gtkwebkit.ars
The GTK port of the WebKit HTML rendering engine has gained support for the HTML5 <video> video element. The media backend, which uses GStreamer, was implemented by Pierre-Luc Beaudoin of Collabora. Developer Alp Toker integrated the backend with GTk/WebKit's Cairo graphics pipeline, making it possible for the video content to be embedded in SVG and manipulated with CSS and JavaScript.

Plans for GStreamer-based HTML5 video support in GTK/WebKit were initially revealed by Toker in September, when he published slides from his presentation at LinuxConf Europe.

As some of you may recall, support for the HTML5 video element was implemented experimentally for Firefox back in August.

The GTK/WebKit port appears to be maturing rapidly and offers some unique advantages over Firefox's Gecko rendering engine in certain contexts. GTK/WebKit is lightweight and less resource intensive than Gecko, which makes it a particularly good choice for mobile and embedded environments. GTK/WebKit will also eventually be a very good solution for GTK and GNOME applications that want lightweight embedded HTML rendering.
Collabora developer given PS3 Dev kit Nov 2007
Back at the office I am admiring the PS3 Devkit Sony has sent us, the thing is quite big, but not as big as I feared. Tim will be starting hacking on it in the very near future to see what we can do.

Tim-Philipp Müller Co-founder Collabora Multimedia. He quickly became one of the most prolific contributors to key elements of the GStreamer stack, often taking on the role of ensuring that contributed elements and code reached production level quality.

In his day-to-day work at Collabora Multimedia, Tim often integrates GStreamer into applications and devices,
Sony and others have been funding the development of open source software and creating organizations to create standards.

Collabora and Google cooperated in bringing the WebM codec to Gstreamer plugins. Any platform using a Gstreamer core or Browser using Gstreamer can have WebM support and automatic switching from H.264 or any other supported codec to WebM by just including the new plugin. Opera uses Gstreamer, Firefox uses both Gstreamer and Cairo.

If you look into the Events sponsored or attended by Collabora at: http://www.collabora.co.uk/events/ and follow the links you can access slideshows and lectures on Linux and embedded platform developments that might make their way into Sony platforms.
 
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Browser Based Games Coming To PS3? Sony Patents BBGs For DualShock, Move
04/19/2011 Written by Sebastian Moss
I guess the link is to a site that NeoGAF considers so unreliable that they will not allow a link. In this case with this writer he properly cites and his conclusion is I believe accurate.

In a recently published patent that was filed back in 2009, Sony Computer Entertainment America have patented plans to specifically customise browser games to work with the DualShock 3 and/or PlayStation Move (called here the “Wand”), rather than a normal mouse.

Interestingly, another part of the patent offers an example of how these specially made browser based games would be found through the PS3 (or even PSP): A store or search function that would include games from Sony:

Of course, the current PlayStation 3 browser is incapable of effectively portraying some websites, let alone full blown browser games, so the browser would need an upgrade – something that has recently been rumored.
So Sony had plans for WebGL games and a new browser for the PS3 as early as 2009. That they are publishing patents now probably means they are providing this information for News articles like this one to prepare us for an announcement of a WebGL browser on the PS3, E3 anyone. Edit: The publishing of the WebGL games patent follows the release of the WebGL standard for games, this may be the only reason to publish.

Access the patent page, it has information on everything. This patent alone has enough information for several threads (11 pages with pictures).

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20110086706.pdf

Figure 1 has handheld, PS3 and PC playing games through the network.
Figure 2 has a flow chart with the Web browser being the element that interacts with the network.
Figure 6 has a drawing of a web page which is the personal page of a user with favorite games, stats, saved games and suggested games.
Figure 8 drawing of a web page for Web game search by friends, category or provider.
Figure 10 drawing of various game controllers and how they interface with the PS3

Figure 12 shows multiple video conferencing sessions in game (already been implemented with Sony High stakes poker).

All the above was in the 2009 patent and is just now being published.
 
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Jeff your dedication to this particular topic is astounding to me. I hope you don't take it wrong when if I ask you why you care so much. I mean no offense I am genuinely interested.
 
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Mr_Elysia said:
Jeff your dedication to this particular topic is astounding to me. I hope you don't take it wrong when if I ask you why you care so much. I mean no offense I am genuinely interested.
Multiple reasons. All this information is available from the internet but it's hidden in the mass of information that is now available on the internet. You have to track it down with key words, but what to use as keys. It's a puzzle that takes little effort until you have to understand articles to choose the proper key words to expand the search. So while solving a puzzle I learn. Posting allows others to correct my incorrect assumptions.

Second, early on, nearly 2 years ago I posted speculation that Sony would support webGL games with a new browser and speculated on the various ways this could be done. Almost every post in response to that speculation stated that it wouldn't happen and gave reasons. I stuck to my beliefs and kinda got a need to prove what everyone bashed.

Third, I like to know how things work. That is the major driving force and I assume, maybe incorrectly, that other have a need to know also.
 
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Cold-Steel said:
Very cool news. One can hope that the browser gets a huge upgrade!
Hope????

Where have you been? <grin> A PS3 webkit browser is in the testing phase. Beyond that in this thread (start at page 6) we are providing information on how it might look and work based on legally required Sony disclosures.

Sorry if I sound over the top....this has not been picked up and reported properly and many do not know about the webkit browser unless they read this thread. I'm astonished at the poor job being done by reporters.

Just goes to show how isolating the web can be if not used properly. You can't rely on Sony to inform you and as stated above the press are't doing their job.

EDIT: I'd add only one thing here, the coming browser is using many of the same open source libraries that Firefox uses. The GTK+ webkit supports SVG, HTML5 and WebGL and in the Sony port is hardware accelerated as it's using (guess) CairoGL and Gstreamer which, if I'm correct, has been in the PS3 since 2008 and is fully integrated with Sony written video codec Gstreamer plugins and adaptive streaming Gstreamer player with Marlin ultraviolet DRM.

For Sony's webkit port to support webGL games as the above published patent seems to indicate, Gstreamer and Cairo have to be hardware accelerated and fully integrated into the PS3 OS.