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[Dust-by-Monday]

Okay, hear me out....

If you own a 1080p TV/Monitor, you might not benefit from supersampling in all games. Some games automatically detect the PS4's output resolution and forces the game to run at a native 1080p instead of 1440p or 4k.

This problem COULD be solved if Sony gave 1080p users another output mode which is effectively 1080p Supersampled mode. Once set to this mode at the system-level, every game that supports a 4k display will automatically use the 4k resolution.

Basically, you could trick the game into thinking you're connected to a real 4k display (even though the actual pixels are 1920x1080)

I started playing Firewatch yesterday and I wish I could play the higher resolution mode because it really cleans the image up a lot and in my opinion, that's more important than slightly smoother shadows for example. Supersampling in games like Tomb Raider and Infinite Warfare have really spoiled me and it sucks that not every game lets you play at the highest resolution.

Tomb Raider for example: On my 1080p monitor, 4k mode is sharper and has more detail than both Enriched Mode and Frame Rate Mode. It's also amazing how you don't see jaggies on things like grass and trees in the distance.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

It was mentioned in one of the leaked slides, so hopefully it comes.

 

[Izuna]

inb4 onQ/thelastword tell you how it isn't as simple as it actually is

 

[timmyp53]

It was mentioned in one of the leaked slides, so hopefully it comes.

Link?

 

[BradleyLove]

inb4 onQ/thelastword tell you how it isn't as simple as it actually is

That's true, though. You don't want your UI elements supersampled. So when supersampling is added to the PS4 SDK, games will still need some work to make them compatible. Or in other words, UI rendered native and everything else supersampled as applicable.

 

[Truant]

It also needs a system wide 30/60hz lock and unlocked GPU/CPU performance.

If the game is intended to run at 30fps, then the system will cap it at that and let the user have access to all dat powah.

 

[Harp]

Why so comparison websites can put out click bait articles about performance. I think each game needs to be looked at my its development team and they should determine how to optimize there games.

 

[Oneself]

It probably won't happen. But I'm pretty sure most devs took notes when they saw ROTTR and future games will most likely include similar options.

 

[DarkestHour]

It also needs a system wide 30/60hz lock and unlocked GPU/CPU performance.

If the game is intended to run at 30fps, then the system will cap it at that and let the user have access to all dat powah.

Yeah, I don't understand the argument still of not unlocking the power and just setting a 60hz refresh rate or a frame limiter. Do games even exist that run higher than 60FPS that this would effect?

 

[RedAssedApe]

Yeah, I don't understand the argument still of not unlocking the power and just setting a 60hz refresh rate or a frame limiter. Do games even exist that run higher than 60FPS that this would effect?

cerny claims compatibility. someone smarter than myself would be probably be able to argue for and/or against that though...although the main comparison would be "xbox one s does it and doesn't seem to break anything on old games" and of course if scorpio automagically boosts performance across the board

 

[EmiPrime]

It needs that and an option to use the Pro's additional power on older games that don't enable the Neo flag.

 

[UnNamed]

PS4 PRO needs 21:9 support!

 

[onQ123]

inb4 onQ/thelastword tell you how it isn't as simple as it actually is

The hell are you talking about? I was the one who showed people that it was mentioned in the PDF that in a future SDK the down scaling would be part of the SDK & not the game engine.

 

[Izuna]

Why so comparison websites can put out click bait articles about performance. I think each game needs to be looked at my its development team and they should determine how to optimize there games.

I think you misunderstand

That's true, though. You don't want your UI elements supersampled. So when supersampling is added to the PS4 SDK, games will still need some work to make them compatible. Or in other words, UI rendered native and everything else supersampled as applicable.

Eh, I don't think this is as big of an issue as you're claiming. People who use DSR on PCs don't have an issue with this. Output resolution should not be changing the internal one. It should never happen.

 

[mattp]

i still can't believe this shit wasn't just baked into the firmware from day one

 

[EvB]

This could also be solved by TVs having a downsamplomg mode built in

 

[Ferr986]

It also needs a system wide 30/60hz lock and unlocked GPU/CPU performance.

If the game is intended to run at 30fps, then the system will cap it at that and let the user have access to all dat powah.

Yeah, I don't understand the argument still of not unlocking the power and just setting a 60hz refresh rate or a frame limiter. Do games even exist that run higher than 60FPS that this would effect?

I don't think this is possible.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a game should be developed with 30 and 60 compatibility in mind, they can't just do it system level because it could fuck up things.

Like for example, DS1 PC version is developed at 30 fps, and although you can play it at 60 fps with DSFix and it works fine, it introduces some bugs like jump distance or ladders not working.

That doesn't mean every game will have glitches if set up to unlock framerate, a lot will not, but Sony and devs rather have perfect compatibility than risk having a game running with new glitches because of it.

 

[Izuna]

i still can't believe this shit wasn't just baked into the firmware from day one

It is in terms of outputting 720p still gets you "supersampling", if we're hell-bent on that term.

But they decided that pro patches should only activate if the system is set to 4K, because, well, Sony I guess.

MS better not make this mistake.

Any game with multiple modes should not be switching between them based on output resolution.

This could also be solved by TVs having a downsamplomg mode built in

Honestly, I think they will in the future. Like how a lot of 768p TVs would accept a 1080p signal.

But at the same time, the PS4 should be doing it (and can, actually. The PS4 has no problems with it.)

 

[EvB]

The hell are you talking about? I was the one who showed people that it was mentioned in the PDF that in a future SDK the down scaling would be part of the SDK & not the game engine.

What good would be being in the SDK but NOT in the game?

 

[Izuna]

The hell are you talking about? I was the one who showed people that it was mentioned in the PDF that in a future SDK the down scaling would be part of the SDK & not the game engine.

Are we talking SDK update, as in being a tool for future releases, or an overall OS update that would effectively remove all the 1080p modes?

Because neither are as ideal as the simple solution to stop having these modes change based on what your set the output to be.

 

[BradleyLove]

I think you misunderstand



Eh, I don't think this is as big of an issue as you're claiming. People who use DSR on PCs don't have an issue with this. Output resolution should not be changing the internal one. It should never happen.

This depends if the game knows it's being downsampled, or whether it's using a brute-force approach. Maybe it's not that much of an issue? Dunno. But a UI designed for 4K might not be useable at 1080p?

 

[BradleyLove]

What good would be being in the SDK but NOT in the game?

Devs wouldn't have to spend time developing their downsampling solution. The SDK would provide access to a system-level solution.

 

[ps3ud0]

Only way Sony will get me to buy a PS4 Pro in the short-term, not looking to move away from 1080p for a long time so would definitely be a (system) feature Id want

ps3ud0 8)

 

[Kinyou]

It's silly that this isn't part of the OS from the start.

 

[DieH@rd]

It was mentioned in one of the leaked slides, so hopefully it comes.

If this is true, then it will come in the next big update. Sony does two notable updates per year, usually set 6 months apart.

It's silly that this isn't part of the OS from the start.

There was no reason for it to be present until now. Users with 720p monitors had it, but now there is a reason why they should add this for 1080p TV owners.

 

[Izuna]

This depends if the game knows it's being downsampled, or whether it's using a brute-force approach. Maybe it's not that much of an issue? Dunno. But a UI designed for 4K might not be useable at 1080p?

Downscaling a UI from 4K to 1080p is a non-issue. These guys are making sure their UIs work on 480p-720p etc.

2D looks great downscaled (when properly done).

 

[Shari]

It probably won't happen. But I'm pretty sure most devs took notes when they saw ROTTR and future games will most likely include similar options.

Sure mate, lol.

 

[Kill3r7]

Agreed.

 

[Backfoggen]

This depends if the game knows it's being downsampled, or whether it's using a brute-force approach. Maybe it's not that much of an issue? Dunno. But a UI designed for 4K might not be useable at 1080p?

I doubt console games will have UIs designed for usage at full 4K. Most people don't want vast TVs.

I personally think they need to get rid of the weird 1080p mode. There should be one version (with graphics options if necessary).

 

[BradleyLove]

I doubt console games will have UIs designed for usage at full 4K. Most people don't want vast TVs.

I personally think they need to get rid of the weird 1080p mode. There should be one version (with graphics options if necessary).

What's the weird 108 mode?

 

[Oneself]

Sure mate, lol.

Believe!

 

[Dunkley]

This depends if the game knows it's being downsampled, or whether it's using a brute-force approach. Maybe it's not that much of an issue? Dunno. But a UI designed for 4K might not be useable at 1080p?

TV 4K games would still require to roughly have a UI size similiar to the 1080p. The only reason PC gets away with it, when it does have a smaller UI at 4K, is because it's a lot easier to read it being right in front of the screen rather than being at the usual viewing distance from a TV.

Honestly tho even in cases where the UI would be too small to properly read after downsampling from 4K, for all other instances it'd be great for the brute force approach for all the other games that don't suffer from such issues but do in fact not offer downsampling option in 1080p mode.

edit:

I doubt console games will have UIs designed for usage at full 4K. Most people don't want vast TVs.

I personally think they need to get rid of the weird 1080p mode. There should be one version (with graphics options if necessary).

You mean that it internally runs in 4K mode at all resolutions? I mean that could work, but the issue there is that it would dissatify the people who just want enhanced 1080p instead of downsampling and those switching to 1080p mode because 4K mode performance isn't good enough for them.

I think overall what they should do is just that, add a 4K downsampling mode, but also add a 1080p to 4K upscaling mode (for instances like the Last Guardian where people want the 1080p mode performance but don't wanna leave upscaling to the TV without having to change the settings on each launch). That would be fantastic, and really would underline the Pro in the console's name.

 

[Max_Po]

well its okay out for 2 months ? hopefully things will keep getting better.

TitalFall 2 so far is the star on 1080p for me... I havn't gone back to any other game....

 

[LabouredSubterfuge]

Idk, I prefer it when devs can just take away features whenever they want tbh. They know best.

 

[Head.spawn]

inb4 onQ/thelastword tell you how it isn't as simple as it actually is

onQ talked about them possibly implementing this like a month ago.

Putting him in the same sentence as thelastword is absurd.

 

[Backfoggen]

What's the weird 108 mode?

Just the 1080p mode alone is weird.

edit:



You mean that it internally runs in 4K mode at all resolutions? I mean that could work, but the issue there is that it would dissatify the people who just want enhanced 1080p instead of downsampling and those switching to 1080p mode because 4K mode performance isn't good enough for them.

I think overall what they should do is just that, add a 4K downsampling mode, but also add a 1080p to 4K upscaling mode (for instances like the Last Guardian where people want the 1080p mode performance but don't wanna leave upscaling to the TV without having to change the settings on each launch). That would be fantastic, and really would underline the Pro in the console's name.

Yeah, that's what I meant with "graphics option if necessary". There can still be a 1080p high detail mode.

 

[Kinyou]

There was no reason for it to be present until now. Users with 720p monitors had it, but now there is a reason why they should add this for 1080p TV owners.

I mean part of the OS from the PS4 pro. Supersampling was something Mark Cerny talked about as benefit for 1080p owners at the reveal irrc

 

[JamesJoyce1882]

Yes, I fully agree. One should be able to select a desired output resolution independent of render resolution.

 

[paperspace]

⁣

 

[Freshmaker]

It was mentioned in one of the leaked slides, so hopefully it comes.

That slide doens't actually promise a system wide option. It just says that devs would like a one mode option which is possible. Still requires dev support tho.

 

[Liabe Brave]

Sure mate, lol.

Considering that ~90% of Pro games already support downsampling, laughing at the idea just makes you look uninformed.

 

[Dust-by-Monday]

Yes, I fully agree. One should be able to select a desired output resolution independent of render resolution.

Exactly! Just like 720p! Launch any game on a base PS4 and the game will still run at the standard 1080p, but then supersample down to 720p if that's what your display is set to.

I don't see why they can't do that for 1080p. The only difference is, the options within the game can still set the game to native 1080p or you can set it to higher resolution (like Rise of the Tomb Raider).

I think it's silly to have this beast of a machine that can output a 1440p or 4k signal, only to have the game make the choice for you that it should run at native 1080p. From what I've seen, higher resolution always looks better than native (infamous, tomb raider, infinite warfare, ratchet and clank, uncharted) but then you have games like Dishonored 2 which has no visual differences if running at 1080p... only 4k TV owners will see the high res mode.

 

[Dust-by-Monday]

Considering that ~90% of Pro games already support downsampling, laughing at the idea just makes you look uninformed.

The following games don't support supersampling:

The Last Guardian
Last of Us
Firewatch
The Witness
Dishonored 2
Black Ops 3

 

[adamsapple]

The following games don't support supersampling:

The Last Guardian
Last of Us
Firewatch
The Witness
Dishonored 2
Black Ops 3

6 out of the 60~70 + ? I think that makes it even higher than 90%

Thanks for proving the point right.

On topic, I agree, there should be a universal system level setting for this. Surprised they haven't done this yet. 4K TV owners like myself probably don't have an issue but the bigger majority of console gamers still have a 1080p TV, so it's strange it's been neglected so far.

 

[Dust-by-Monday]

6 out of the 60~70 + ? I think that makes it even higher than 90%

Thanks for proving the point right.

On topic, I agree, there should be a universal system level setting for this. Surprised they haven't done this yet. 4K TV owners like myself probably don't have an issue but the bigger majority of console gamers still have a 1080p TV, so it's strange it's been neglected so far.

Well, I'd still like for those games to completely eliminate aliasing.

 

[Shari]

Considering that ~90% of Pro games already support downsampling, laughing at the idea just makes you look uninformed.

Considering the original quote was speaking about multiple graphic options to select from your reply looks like you just dont get the point and you needed to reply something when you thought something bad of Pro was being said.

Unsurprising considering your profile in this forum.

 

[DavidDesu]

It's a huge factor on why I'm not that fussed about owning a Pro yet. Seems like a 4K TV is the only real reason to get one. ALL games with resolutions running more than 1080p should automatically have a supersampled output to 1080p tv's, madness it doesn't yet. MUST be fixed.