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[Zen]

Really now Jeff that whole post\site seem like bullshit .
Right now even Intel is having problems at 22nm and there are also wide know problems with GF/TSMC at 28nm .
Lol the whole site is about bashing Sony and calling out fan boys on neogaf what a waste of a click .

Is it related to the now dead PCvsConsole website run by 'Chairman Steve'? Sounds like that places MO.

 

[Lord Error]

Fuck post-processed AA, the "blue filter" employed on PS3 games this generations was a MAJOR turn off... at least let us disable that crap in the settings I want a razar sharp image not a blur fest.

Some of the games that used MLAA or its variations were GoW3, Uncharted 3, LBP2... Those games looked blurry to you? MLAA implementation on PS3 specifficaly analyzes where the edges are on the image and applies processing just there, almost never affecting textured surfaces in any way.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Is it related to the now dead PCvsConsole website run by 'Chairman Steve'? Sounds like that places MO.

I have no idea but the site seem kind of crazy .

 

[Reiko]

Some of the games that used MLAA or its variations were GoW3, Uncharted 3, LBP2... Those games looked blurry to you? MLAA implementation on PS3 specifficaly analyzes where the edges are on the image and applies processing just there, almost never affecting textured surfaces in any way.

MLAA looked blurry here

 

[jeff_rigby]

I did but i don't see it being ready in time but we will see.

That was the question I had, is it going to be used for the Xbox 720 and PS4? There are two posts that support it, Mistermedia and the seronx information on next generation GPU being FULL HSA which is VI and VI is at 20nm.

I found these posts early this morning and have been trying to confirm. It's a shock to me as I assumed 28nm also until early this morning. I started questioning the Full HSA assumption and 2014 design a few weeks ago when information on Volcanic Islands @20nm came out.

 

[KageMaru]

Some of the games that used MLAA or its variations were GoW3, Uncharted 3, LBP2... Those games looked blurry to you? MLAA implementation on PS3 specifficaly analyzes where the edges are on the image and applies processing just there, almost never affecting textured surfaces in any way.

Pretty sure UC3 doesn't use MLAA but instead a custom PPAA done by ND and it sucks IMO. It would have been better to go with FXAA but I wonder if they couldn't spare the GPU time.

 

[tinfoilhatman]

Some of the games that used MLAA or its variations were GoW3, Uncharted 3, LBP2... Those games looked blurry to you? MLAA implementation on PS3 specifficaly analyzes where the edges are on the image and applies processing just there, almost never affecting textured surfaces in any way.

Uncharted and Killzone looked great but if you played multi-platform games on PS3 and then played the 360 version without MSAA the difference in clarity\sharpness was HUGE.

I will never buy games on a platform that uses this AA tech when I can get it for the competitors platform using a more traditional AA method.

Just give us an option to disable it in the settings......problem solved.

 

[gofreak]

I think Sony would need a substantially more powerful GPU to compete with MS next gen. I just don't see Sony touching MS in providing tools, especially tools for parallel processing. Parallel processing is why I believe MS is going with the setup its going with.

They'll both have a very similar programming interface for heavier parallel lifting (compute shading).

I'd have few concerns about the software stack getting in the way of exploiting the hardware.

On a slightly higher level than tools and the OS stack, Sony has an extremely talented pool of developers sharing knowledge on best practise. It showed on PS3 where 'software' often saved the day over hardware limitations.

I remember there being some handwaving a few years ago at the thought of massively parallel CPUs, and how we'd need a big leap in compiler technology to cope with this etc. But on the CPU side that doesn't seem to be materialising with the new consoles.

 

[RoboPlato]

Some of the games that used MLAA or its variations were GoW3, Uncharted 3, LBP2... Those games looked blurry to you? MLAA implementation on PS3 specifficaly analyzes where the edges are on the image and applies processing just there, almost never affecting textured surfaces in any way.

Sony's MLAA is pretty good at not blurring but sometimes doesn't work too well, particularly with high contrast edges. BF3 didn't benefit from it too much either. I hope we see SMAA take over FXAA as a reasonable solution. The coverage it provides at 1080p would provide a great IQ on consoles, wouldn't be anywhere near as blurry, and also has a very low power cost.

 

[Lord Error]

MLAA looked blurry here

That's an upscaled 1080p screenshot of a game that renders natively in 720 or sub-720p, can't remember. That's why the screen looks blurry, not because of MLAA. If anything MLAA can leave parts of the image too sharp, the complaint about it is that it doesn't do enough in certain scenarios, never that it does too much.

Sony's MLAA is pretty good at not blurring but sometimes doesn't work too well, particularly with high contrast edges. BF3 didn't benefit from it too much either. I hope we see SMAA take over FXAA as a reasonable solution. The coverage it provides at 1080p would provide a great IQ on consoles, wouldn't be anywhere near as blurry, and also has a very low power cost.

SMAA is really great, especially at 1080p and higher, I agree.

 

[Reiko]

That's an upscaled 1080p screenshot of a game that renders natively in 720 or sub-720p, can't remember. That's why the screen looks blurry, not because of MLAA. If anything MLAA can leave parts of the image too sharp, the complaint about it is that it doesn't do enough in certain scenarios, never that it does too much.

Motorstorm Apocalypse = 1280x1080 (dynamic) 2D, 1024x720 3D (MLAA)

Same res as GT5 (Which was sharp). It's blurry.

 

[Proelite]

Thru my filter, the 22nm part is believeable. Matches info that Microsoft was sent the Chip for testing. GloFlo is going to be 22nm and TSMC is 20nm.

MisterXMedia. Paul Ryan of Xbots.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

MisterXMedia. Paul Ryan of Xbots.

That is what i am saying kind of hardware to take jeff links serious when a site look that way .

 

[Lord Error]

Motorstorm Apocalypse = 1280x1080 (dynamic) 2D, 1024x720 3D (MLAA)

Same res as GT5 (Which was sharp). It's blurry.

While that does look blurrier than any other game for which I know that it does use MLAA, I think most of the blurriness comes from horrible JPEG quality, low res textures, and upscaling from 1280 to 1920. Even that screen that you posted, if you scale that down to 1280x720, IQ looks pretty good.

 

[waypoetic]

Everytime i enter this thread i hope for leaked screenshots..

:/

 

[Mindlog]

The only way the dev kit is 22nm if it's using the newest Intel Xeons (I don't think it is, though - I think they are older ones).

The Jaguars will be 28nm, as will the GCN GPUs.

GF/TSMC is struggling enough currently with 28nm yields, and widespread issues with smaller processes are well known in their immaturity and price. Die shrinks are not going to be much of a factor next gen, imo, hence the importance of initial pricing.

By industry standards I wouldn't even label their current delays as 'struggling.'
I'd consider them to be impressive progress.
There's no way some exotic process is going to arrive at such a time that Q2 2014 becomes the bellwether of exotic advanced console hardware.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

This guy is legit. There is a reason no one has second guessed him so far with the exception of thyself.

So which is it?

I've heard you hint that the PS4 is looking beastly and more powerful than the 720, yet this guy's story says the opposite

 

[Respawn]

So which is it?

I've heard you hint that the PS4 is looking beastly and more powerful than the 720, yet this guy's story says the opposite

Let us see what his answer is since you've called him out.

 

[sweetvar26]

AMD announces 15% layoffs at work officially today. Sucks

 

[El_Chino]

AMD announces 15% layoffs at work officially today. Sucks

Hope your friend is okay, I know the feeling of getting laid off.

 

[specialguy]

So which is it?

I've heard you hint that the PS4 is looking beastly and more powerful than the 720, yet this guy's story says the opposite

proelite changes his opinion on the consoles power more than he changes his underwear.

 

[Globox_82]

proelite changes his opinion on the consoles power more than he changes his underwear.

yup. but not his fault, fault of his source...lol

 

[specialguy]

Is it related to the now dead PCvsConsole website run by 'Chairman Steve'? Sounds like that places MO.

site was a good npd resource though. blast from the past, i just googled for that site this morning.

 

[specialguy]

yup. but not his fault, fault of his source...lol

story will come out xbox is powerful

proelite: I told u guys, beast

story will come out Xbox is weak

proelite: i knew it, ps4 is going to blow the shitty xbox away

He's went through this cycle like 40 times I think

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Some of that makes no sense unless i reading wrong .

 

[McHuj]

SIMD Counts and CLock speeds.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I'm drinking beer man, but checking this stuff out is really tiring, so much to go through, especially with the fact that it is too technical for me and I do not know much.

Just post it and let GAF wade through it

 

[Lord Error]

"Scalar" ALUs or "Shader" ALUs?

320 seems really low for shader ALU. 7750 I think has 512.

But it adds up. SIMD units are as far as I know same thing as CU, and each CU has 64 ALUs, so 5x64 = 320.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Okay i figure out some stuff but it can't be right so will wait for some other gaf tech heads to come so we can discuss stuff .

 

[i-Lo]

"Scalar" ALUs or "Shader" ALUs?

320 seems really low for shader ALU. 7750 I think has 512.

But it adds up. SIMD units are as far as I know same thing as CU, and each CU has 64 ALUs, so 5x64 = 320.

Sounds like PS4 may turn out to be a true weak sauce. Nonetheless, things change and not to mention Proelite's reaction about PS4 has been much more positive.

 

[McHuj]

Looks like this is just part/submodule in the APU because only 5 SIMDs @ 800 MHZ would be really weak. I don't think this tells us anything.

BTW, Milos is a Greek volcanic island.

 

[Lord Error]

Sounds like PS4 may turn out to be a true weak sauce. Nonetheless, things change and not to mention Proelite's reaction about PS4 has been much more positive.

This could be just a GPU portion of the APU part. Well, hopefully that's it.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I must be behind on my Acronyms but for the Texture Units 5TCP/2TCC .
What does TCP and TCC stand for .

 

[Barkley's Justice]

hai guyz whatcha doin in here? speculating for days on end? neat!

 

[sweetvar26]

Looks like this is just part/submodule in the APU because only 5 SIMDs @ 800 MHZ would be really weak. I don't think this tells us anything.

BTW, Milos is a Greek volcanic island.

Yeah but I couldn't find any evidence of it being Volcanic Islands. So can't really say that. I don't know.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Some of these have to be old. Open CL is at version 1.2 right now.

Yep Open CL version 1.2 came out last year November .

 

[specialguy]

http://www.vgleaks.com/world-exclusive-ps4-in-deep-first-specs/

the vgleaks ps4 specs put the gpu at 800 mhz, same as sweetvar

other than that i cant make much of it, other than that the first set of specs appears to be an apu (presumably would be in conjunction with a discrete gpu)

this could be old info too.

 

[specialguy]

Hmm, google fu-ing.

AMD starsha and Sony starsha not getting anywhere BUT...

"GPP-PCIE" does get somewhere such as...

This slide above is from 2008. Maybe something to do with 2010 info? Or just general stuff.

Seems to simply stand for PCIe graphics port? Does seem to be an AMD specific term though, at least all the hits seem to come from AMD products only

Dont know why you'd be talking about pcie in a console. Maybe this info is unrelated to PS4.

Will poke around more later

Hmm, notice in the above slide it seems to refer to 5ghzX4 GPP Pcie, and sweetvars post says something similar in format

5x8 GPP PCIE cores

Seems like a "north bridge" on motherboards or something. Would a console even have a north bridge?

It seems to just be referring to PCIe slots. Doesn't make any sense as "cores" or really in a console that I know of.

 

[RaijinFY]

Well looks like it's a wait & see i guess...

 

[Meelow]

So what does this all mean exactly?

 

[specialguy]

seems like uvd 4.0 relates at least to southern islands.

eg, a southern islands gpu feature for what it's worth.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

seems like uvd 4.0 relates at least to southern islands.

eg, a southern islands gpu feature for what it's worth.

Man i got to give credit for trying to figure out stuff .
Especially since it seem old and out of place .

 

[specialguy]

GNB north bridge also yields something...hmm, these are all AMD related so it matches up

http://jobs.climber.com/jobs/Information-Technology/-US/ASIC-Layout-Design-Engineer-2/22682226

About Our Department
At AMD the future is "Fusion"! By joining AMD's Fusion Graphics Northbridge (GNB) Department you will be given an opportunity to work on the next generation Fusion processors aimed at providing a single chip solution that encompasses the CPU, GPU, Display and IO Interconnect components. The GNB department is responsible for the integration of several multi-media IPs such as GPU, Display and UVD into the GNB sub-system and owns the IP development for several IPs such as PCIE, IOMMU, I/O Controller and Micro Controller. The Design Verification Group within the GNB department is responsible for developing the methodologies, flows, test benches and test plans for the verification both the GNB sub-system and IPs.

Position Outlines:
We are currently looking for ASIC Design Engineers who will be involved in all aspects of AMD's next generation Fusion. This includes create circuits for CPU interface which require extensive knowledge of clock domain crossing. Apply low power design to existing logic and maintain overall system performance. Understand virtualization in computer system to implement hardware accelerated hypervisor. Also focus on timing, LINT and CDC closure to ensure high quality RTL. Designer will be involved in verification and debug of the ASIC through out various stages of the project. Strong Verilog/HDL language is required. Good understanding of C/C++, system verilog, OVL would be beneficial for testbench/simulation debug. During bring up, Some lab work with logic analyzer and oscilloscope might be required.

Education Requirements
Bachelor/Master in Electrical/Computer Engineering/Engineering Science or Computer Science.

Experience/Knowledge
- 2+ years of experience in ASIC Design, ASIC Design Verification or FPGA Development
- Strong knowledge of Verilog or VHDL language
- Expertise in ASIC architecture and the digital design design/flow concepts
- Understanding of hardware and software interaction within a system.
- Understanding of PC Architectures and industry standards such as PCI, PCIExpress, HyperTransport and Virtual Machine.
- Working knowledge of UNIX, Linux, Windows.
- Strong analytical thinking skills, excellent attention to detail, and good coding skills are required.

Languages
. Verilog/VHDL/System Verilog
. C/C++/PERL

Fusion related?

 

[XtremeXpider]

So what does this all mean exactly?

30% more power than Wii U xD

Just kidding...

 

[Napalm_Frank]

I have no idea about technical stuff but posts saying PS4 will be ''weaksauce'' make me depressed. I really hope next gen jump is a good one. I should stay out of these threads lol.

 

[Meelow]

I have no idea about technical stuff but posts saying PS4 will be ''weaksauce'' make me depressed. I really hope next gen jump is a good one. I should stay out of these threads lol.

At least the PS4 didn't get (or yet) a random website lying about the console just to get views (AKA GamingIndustry website Wii U April fiasco)

 

[charsace]

This card is a custom 7800? I was looking at stream processors and this card would have the same amount of stream processors as a 7870?

 

[RaijinFY]

This card is a custom 7800? I was looking at stream processors and this card would have the same amount of stream processors as a 7870?

Which one?

 

[specialguy]

dce 7.0? could be related to this? http://www.doublersolutions.com/dce/dce.htm

Secure Distributed Enterprise Computing

Double R Solutions is able to provide and support the full line of Entegrity DCE and DFS product suite, the most widely accepted solution for developing and deploying secure distributed computing applications enterprise-wide. We are commited to providing DCE products for current supported platforms as well as new platforms needed by our customers so that their DCE infrastructure can remain supported.

DCE Benefits

Security - The Entegrity DCE Security Server authenticates all users and servers, ensuring that people, servers, and applications are who they claim to be. Entegrity DCE authorization capabilities can protect distributed resources from unauthorized use.

Lower maintenance costs - The use of formal interface definitions by DCE RPC allows any number of programmers to write applications that communicate correctly, while keeping versions and configurations in sync. The interface definition can be maintained and versioned, and the version number compiled into the application will ensure that each client finds a compatible server.

Scalability and availability - The use of replication for both security and directory servers aids in network response time, as well as service availability. Entegrity DCE installations in the tens and hundreds of thousands of users operate successfully today.
Reduced risk - DCE is a proven technology, which has been successfully deployed for years at hundreds of large organizations in the Global 2000. Entegrity DCE is the world's foremost implementation of DCE for the desktop, and is in use at some of the largest enterprises in the world today.

Some security crap in PS4? Or in AMD's servers that this stuff is on? Or could be unrelated.

 

[RaijinFY]

Conclusion, wait & see.