Bryank75
Banned
Microsoft will have something similar.
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PS5 Expandable Storage - more details emerge (Update: Appears unrelated to PS5)
- Thread starter Bryank75
- Start date
Barnabot
Member
"He who foresees calamities suffers them twice over. " - Porteus,Beilby
Bryank75
Banned
People here are getting the wrong idea, from the moment you press to load a game onto your harddrive to the moment it is ready will be faster than you are able to get to the application to open it.....
So having additional drives is pointless. It makes HDD's obsolete... you wont ever need them.
The whole thing is that it does not function like a traditional drive. You have to get out of that mind-frame.
So having additional drives is pointless. It makes HDD's obsolete... you wont ever need them.
The whole thing is that it does not function like a traditional drive. You have to get out of that mind-frame.
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Aceofspades
Banned
JimboJones
Member
If it functions as a large cache kinda like Intel optane and accelerates storage I guess that would be cool.
Let us buy cheaper non proprietary stuff for the bulk of the storage though.
Also with everyone just saying delete your stuff I'm getting flashbacks to Nintendo saying clean out your Wii storage fridge
Let us buy cheaper non proprietary stuff for the bulk of the storage though.
Also with everyone just saying delete your stuff I'm getting flashbacks to Nintendo saying clean out your Wii storage fridge
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I Love Rock 'n' Roll
Member
Delete games? It's the Wii all other again? Naaa.
I hope classic HD will still be an option. Do we have any confirmation yet? The best thing would be to plug my HD to PS5 and forget about PS4 as a hardware asap.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I got over my storage pack-rat hoarding the past couple of years. 1TB has served me fine in that regards. More the better, obviously.
Gamernyc78
Banned
In Cerny "I" trust, I have a feeling this is going to be great!!! Cerny knows what he's doing and we'll get some goodies we don't know about in ps5.
vpance
Member
Maybe this cartridge is the only main source of storage. So a 256GB super fast internal SSD plus whatever base cartridge they package in at launch. Probably 1TB.
With 1 to 4TB size cartridges that'll probably be enough to discourage people to buy external HDDs. And hopefully whatever price Sony will charge is competitive..
With 1 to 4TB size cartridges that'll probably be enough to discourage people to buy external HDDs. And hopefully whatever price Sony will charge is competitive..
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
The only way this has any merit and not come off as a ripoff is if they're utilizing the cartridge as a cache similar to AMD's SSG drives. Otherwise if it's simply for more storage space (e.g 4TB/8TB) then it's worthless: 3rd-parties will eventually start making those drives themselves and they'll naturally price them to be competitive whereas Sony would have no reason to here (until alternative 3rd-party drives come along with similar capacity).
I agree with everyone saying this is like the Vita memory card situation all over again, unless it's actually some accelerated SSG-style
cache drive. I can see that being worth the endeavor (especially if it's PCM/3D Xpoint or storage-class ReRAM).
I agree with everyone saying this is like the Vita memory card situation all over again, unless it's actually some accelerated SSG-style
cache drive. I can see that being worth the endeavor (especially if it's PCM/3D Xpoint or storage-class ReRAM).
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DonF
Member
After the "openness" of the ps3 and ps4 I would be very disappointed if Sony regresses to proprietary memory. At least have a m.2 slot or something similar. Prices are bound to drop and maybe the adoption of a big console will make the standard popular, like what the ps2 and ps3 did with DVD and bluray, respectively.
Gamernyc78
Banned
As if Sony wouldnt have learned from their Vita mistakes e.g. Proprietary card fiasco, like they have definitely learned from their ps3 architecture and pricing mistake smh. Regardless if it's a proprietary situation I'm sure it'll be for a gd reason and an option. I'm sure we are all going to be pleasantly surprised by what Sony has in store with the ssd and fastness of loading. I look forward to this. As usual I'm bookmarking the hyperbolic posts saying Sony is doomed or this is a Vita situation so I can laugh later like I have been since last Gen with all the naysayers. Usually the same group of ppl I can tell by the names lol 
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ManaByte
Member
Never owned a Vita, huh?
quickwhips
Member
I hope this doesn’t mean they are going to lock storage behind a paywall. Giving me that 360 vibe which is weird as $ony is usually good about allowing the use of your own storage.
SleepDoctor
Banned
Yea.. they can keep their (most likely) overpriced memory cards.
If it ships with 2tb, that'd be good but i think even that might not be enough for next gen. Lots of these recent games are over 100gb installs.
If it ships with 2tb, that'd be good but i think even that might not be enough for next gen. Lots of these recent games are over 100gb installs.
vpance
Member
I have one. I also said hopefully, lol.
Bladed Thesis
Member
This.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
I'm going to spitball here and ask, honestly, what can these cartridges do that SSDs on the market already can't? Capacity? Well, we have 2TB internal SSDs on NVMe PCIe 3.0 x4 right now for a couple hundred bucks. Suppose these carts have twice the capacity, you really think you're getting that for $200? Maybe $150-$200 BOM cost, sure, but standalone you're probably looking at up to $300 as a peripheral storage option if not more.
Price? Well we've already covered that. If Sony's offering a 4TB storage option and it's NVMe of say 4GB/s, if current 4TB internal SSDs (at only SATA III spec) are between $250-$400 on average...what makes you think this cartridge will be priced at, say, a Dualshock 5 controller's MSRP (or have a small footprint on the system's BOM)?
Again, the only option for this to be worthwhile is if it's offering very fast speed (let's assume each of the 12 lanes are a PCIe 3.0 connection, that's 11.82 GB/s bandwidth speed) and likely a lower-than-1TB (say, 128GB or 256GB if VERY lucky) of 3D Xpoint NAND or storage-class ReRAM as a persistent memory wedged between RAM and SSD in terms of access times, read/write, byte accessibility etc. They could probably go for 128GB and keep a BOM between $70-$100 if producing at a very mass scale, and retail optional peripheral storage versions at no more than $199.99.
And a 128GB peripheral version is only really sensible if it has two such cartridge slots, otherwise it would be wiser to offer a 256GB option at that price point but only if they can get the BOM for such at $100 or lower. Granted, some of this is wishful thinking, but I'm also trying to be realistic and see the cartridge as something of genuine value, unlike the Vita memory cards.
Price? Well we've already covered that. If Sony's offering a 4TB storage option and it's NVMe of say 4GB/s, if current 4TB internal SSDs (at only SATA III spec) are between $250-$400 on average...what makes you think this cartridge will be priced at, say, a Dualshock 5 controller's MSRP (or have a small footprint on the system's BOM)?
Again, the only option for this to be worthwhile is if it's offering very fast speed (let's assume each of the 12 lanes are a PCIe 3.0 connection, that's 11.82 GB/s bandwidth speed) and likely a lower-than-1TB (say, 128GB or 256GB if VERY lucky) of 3D Xpoint NAND or storage-class ReRAM as a persistent memory wedged between RAM and SSD in terms of access times, read/write, byte accessibility etc. They could probably go for 128GB and keep a BOM between $70-$100 if producing at a very mass scale, and retail optional peripheral storage versions at no more than $199.99.
And a 128GB peripheral version is only really sensible if it has two such cartridge slots, otherwise it would be wiser to offer a 256GB option at that price point but only if they can get the BOM for such at $100 or lower. Granted, some of this is wishful thinking, but I'm also trying to be realistic and see the cartridge as something of genuine value, unlike the Vita memory cards.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
Well, there may be many issues with this, usually these "special" formats are nothing more than some parts available elsewhere repackaged in a neat box.
Now they should :
1 - make sure the console comes packed with a decent amount of storage (1TB or more I assume)
2 - the upgrade carts have some real benefits
3 - the cost per GB is comparable to the competition
If they fail at this it will have an impact on software sales, and/or games will have to adapt in size (like on the Switch) so that people can actually download them to their system.
Now they should :
1 - make sure the console comes packed with a decent amount of storage (1TB or more I assume)
2 - the upgrade carts have some real benefits
3 - the cost per GB is comparable to the competition
If they fail at this it will have an impact on software sales, and/or games will have to adapt in size (like on the Switch) so that people can actually download them to their system.
Starlight Lotice
Member
Account Sharing Memory Cards where you can download your whole saves/videos to share with friends maybe?
Or is it a revolutionary Capture Card to edit using Sony's Vega Video once put in a PC?
Or is it a revolutionary Capture Card to edit using Sony's Vega Video once put in a PC?
My issue with the proprietary storage garbage in the past is that, it wasn't actually faster than any other memory out there, just priced cripplingly high for a dirty money grab.
If they broke the mold and actually had higher performance, that'd be nice. LOL who am I kidding right?
People saying 1TB is enough are very wrong, 1TB was enough a few years ago, games are growing expoentially in size, it's like devs are so busy pumping out DLC they forget to optimize the sizes of patches and base game files. Maybe we should start being mad at devs for including DLC in their patches and the actual DLC in the gamestores are Keys to unlock the content they've already forced you to download(In some cases), yea yea compatibility with other versions, I bet it's laziness in some cases.
If they broke the mold and actually had higher performance, that'd be nice. LOL who am I kidding right?
People saying 1TB is enough are very wrong, 1TB was enough a few years ago, games are growing expoentially in size, it's like devs are so busy pumping out DLC they forget to optimize the sizes of patches and base game files. Maybe we should start being mad at devs for including DLC in their patches and the actual DLC in the gamestores are Keys to unlock the content they've already forced you to download(In some cases), yea yea compatibility with other versions, I bet it's laziness in some cases.
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
What leak are you talking about?
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
Maybe, but if that's all it's for, why not just have a microSD card handle that at SATA Express speed? They already have the storage, portability, small size, pricing etc. All they'd need to do is manage access and read/write privileges on the PS5 itself at the OS level to ensure users aren't uploading or downloading content they aren't privileged to.
Still nothing a microSD can't already do, and very well at that if discounting the bottom-of-the-barrel cards. Plus the number of PS5 owners who'd have a PC with Vega Video installed on it would be pretty small. If the card had Vega Video installed on itself, it'd be smarter to just have it as an app built into the PS5 OS and let users edit that content on the system itself (and feature support for keyboard and mouse if they want it).
Whatever the cartridge is, it has to be serving a much bigger purpose to justify its existence. I mean, I like the idea of account sharing saves/videos and editing recorded gameplay footage, no doubt. I just don't want those to be the big reasons Sony wants to do this cartridge because it'd just feel like a cash grab IMO when you consider other storage devices already on the market can serve those purposes very well.
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JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Why go away with what works now? People love the easy and accessible external hard drive usage of current consoles
Nickolaidas
Member
I know the PS5 will deliver. I have faith in Sony, though I realize they could somehow fuck this up (I don't see it, but it's a possibility).
Right now, I'm mostly interested in how PS4 games will take advantage of the PS5 hardware. Will they load faster due to SSDs? Will they have native 4K? Anti-aliasing via hardware and not software?
Will PS4 games be able to have a reduced load time like with the Spider-man exhibition? Without a need to patch things up? That will be amazing.
Right now, I'm mostly interested in how PS4 games will take advantage of the PS5 hardware. Will they load faster due to SSDs? Will they have native 4K? Anti-aliasing via hardware and not software?
Will PS4 games be able to have a reduced load time like with the Spider-man exhibition? Without a need to patch things up? That will be amazing.
Nickolaidas
Member
Because if those cartridges are M2-like SSDs, we're going back to the glorious Genesis/SNES days where games loaded in 3 seconds. I'd like that.
wvnative
Member
Guys, what on earth is your problem? This is very different from the Vita.
1. Vita could have easily used MicroSD. They just chose to be greedy.
2. PS5 games are being designed with this super custom SSD in mind, how else would you purpose they offer expanded storage? PS5 games aren't gonna run on regular HDDs
3. As soon as they announced it was this special high speed thing, it was obvious the storage space would be limited. SSDs cost a lot more let alone a propriety solution.
4. Unlike Vita, PS5 can be used without the storage expansion if you just delete older games/manage the space, this is just for insane people like me who have a 6TB drive on PS4.
1. Vita could have easily used MicroSD. They just chose to be greedy.
2. PS5 games are being designed with this super custom SSD in mind, how else would you purpose they offer expanded storage? PS5 games aren't gonna run on regular HDDs
3. As soon as they announced it was this special high speed thing, it was obvious the storage space would be limited. SSDs cost a lot more let alone a propriety solution.
4. Unlike Vita, PS5 can be used without the storage expansion if you just delete older games/manage the space, this is just for insane people like me who have a 6TB drive on PS4.
Nickolaidas
Member
This.
I also wanted to have my entire PS library on my HDDs, until I realized I never play more than 3-4 games at a time. Of course, some people have a data cap and can't download on a whim (with slow speeds of 1.4 MBs per second), so I understand those who want to download once and be done with it.
Although, truth be told, you'll be constantly downloading patches and updates if you have 500 games in your HDDs ...
People, stick to 5-10 games and delete/install accordingly. That's my advice to you.
GermanZepp
Member
Maybe this cartridges are small and with enough space to hold game. You put it in your dualshock 5 PS5 and "instant load" the game.
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demigod
Member
It's like people have gone stupid and forgot that it was announced that they would be using proprietary SSD and not your average SSD like right now.
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
what’s so different about PS5 than PCs?
I can run any PC game off my mechanical drive or my SSDs.
what would cause a game to be literally unplayable on an external HD/SSD?
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vpance
Member
Because that's slow and they want everyone to have that ultra fast loading experience they've been hyping up.
The way Cerny talked about it in the first interview made it seem like you'll only be able to have like 1 or 2 full size games in their special SSD. In that case I don't want to use any old 5400 rpm external at all. If I'm playing 4-5 random games in a month that could be a lot of loading and waiting, jumping from game to game.
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Birdo
Banned
The base Xbox One S ships with a 1TB HDD
Do you really think that next gen consoles will ship with the same storage size as last gen?
It's 2TB or over. Over 80% of games are sold digitally now.
kingbean
Member
Leak might have been the wrong word, I was falling asleep at my desk at work lol.
PS5 will use cartridges reveals unlikely new patent
Sony seem to be going old school when it comes to delivering games on the PlayStation 5, if leaked designs of the PS5 patent are anything to go by - but what is the new cartridge really for? If it wasn’t for the Nintendo Switch still using a form of cartridge, we’d worry that many younger...
metro.co.uk
demigod
Member
The base Xbox One S ships with a 1TB HDD
Do you really think that next gen consoles will ship with the same storage size as last gen?
It's 2TB or over. Over 80% of games are sold digitally now.
You might want to check the Switch specs.
I can see Sony using 1TB just to keep their losses down.
Lone Wolf
Member
Yeah a 5200RPM HDD. Doubt we get a 2TB SSDThe base Xbox One S ships with a 1TB HDD
Do you really think that next gen consoles will ship with the same storage size as last gen?
It's 2TB or over. Over 80% of games are sold digitally now.
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Nero_PR
Banned
The person might have some hoarding problems. I manage 2TB just fine with deleting the games I won't need in the long run. But this is me. I even manage space to get some highlights with in-game videos and photos. 4TB is just too little to you if you have problems with management.
Mithos
Member
Or maybe the person just have bad/slow Internet?
I mean I don't delete ANY game on my PS4/PC that I have installed that I might want to play again, since downloading 30GB+ is not an HOURS thing but a DAY/S thing when downloading.
Take Destiny 2 as an example, ~90GB on PS4, started downloading on Sept 30th, was not downloaded/Installed until Oct 2nd for me.
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
But they could just have users install actual M.2 drives themselves. Gigabyte has a drive with 5 GB/s read and 4.4 GB/s write. I can maybe see a value in the cartridge being 128 or so GB, just large enough to hold a full game, but at 8 GB/s - 12 GB/s read speeds and using some type of PCM 3D Xpoint or storage-class ReRAM (maybe just as partial amount, say 32GB; make the rest quality MLC or TLC NAND).
SSG-style cache implementation, relatively low BOM so it can be packed in with each system, MSRP for replacement and larger sizes that won't end up literally being the price of a launch Dreamcast or N64. Everybody wins.
This is something their own memory controller could facilitate, realistically speaking. The only need for a cartridge of their own would if they don't want to license the necessary software stack and drivers to 3rd parties to implement in their own drives that meet general hardware specifications.
Simply having a connection on quad PCIe 4.0 lanes through NVMe would facilitate this for the most part. The rest would come down to level of driver exposure and how exactly the drive is physically structured (and the quality of the integrated circuits). I suppose Sony would prefer not licensing out the driver software stack, and they are using their own custom one, at least for the cartridge itself. They could maybe also be using a modified implementation of NVMe 3.1 to get some extra bandwdith, if that's the case then understandably they'd want to make drives/cartridges that absolutely work with it as intended.
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Nero_PR
Banned
Yeah, I forgot about it. These days I just play two or three at a time and delete the rest. If for some reason I want to play something again, I just download it while I'm taking a shower or eating something. I've been using 200mbs (up and down) for so long now that I forgot about this (even though I live in Brazil, that doesn't have the best internet in the world). Really sorry if I offended anyone.
EDMIX
Member
I generally agree and I do the same so I always have literally hundreds of gigs of space left as I have no reason to have a game on my HDD that I'm not actually playing.
Keep in mind, next generations games will not have the exact same amount of space, it will likely be much more then what we are seeing right now, but unless games coming out at like 400 or 500GB out of the gate, I think I can make due with 2TB for a few years.
Nickolaidas
Member
Indeed.
"In another interview with Wired, Cerny revealed that an SSD will help save storage space, giving developers the opportunity to create more detailed game worlds or shrink the sizes of games and patches altogether."
Rossco EZ
Member
yeah there’s always those games you buy, play and just delete because they don’t exactly have replay value etc. i keep a few games for when friends come over if they feel like playing and then i have about 3-4 that i’m usually playing. i’ve actually just checked and i have 24 games installed (way more than i thought) and i’m using 1.01TB. also it’s been said that next gen we will be able to choose what parts of games we install right? so i guess that will reduce game sizes a bit!
i think at the time the only reason i got a 2TB HDD was because i thought there was going to be big patches on ps4 pro games but i’ve never had that so i guess it was silly
Concerns regarding over priced memory are valid. But I suspect both MS and Sony are looking for a way to expand storage without using external hard drives, because they would defeat the whole point of SSD's (without having to transfer before playing I would think, which kind of defeats the purpose).
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
I am really struggling as to how anyone sees this as a bad thing. It's at worst an inconvenience and that's an inconvenience only if they prohibit the use of an external HDD for backing up unplayed games.
The PS5 will come with storage, so it's not like additional storage will be absolutely required. From what I gather the proprietary storage will only be required if you want to run a game off of it.
Solution: delete the games you don't play anymore and there will never be a need for the proprietary storage.
As I said, it could be an inconvenience if they don't allow an external generic HDD to store games not being used, but I suspect they will.
The PS5 will come with storage, so it's not like additional storage will be absolutely required. From what I gather the proprietary storage will only be required if you want to run a game off of it.
Solution: delete the games you don't play anymore and there will never be a need for the proprietary storage.
As I said, it could be an inconvenience if they don't allow an external generic HDD to store games not being used, but I suspect they will.