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PS5 seems more balanced than Xbox One Series X
- Thread starter Bankai
- Start date
MilkyJoe
Member
Some of them are former and still praise the PS5 solution. There are some 3rd party dev tweet comments in link below :
Devs react to PS5 specs - Twitter edition
To be clear Xbox's is also faster than anything out there. But PS5's is 2x that even so playstations is crazywww.resetera.com
So after it's taken 1 seconds to load a game into RAM and 2 seconds on the Xbox, you're back to raw numbers again.
SSD is the new TV TV
phil_t98
#SonyToo
I said this the other day, if they would of come out and said 9.2tf or 10.3tf or what ever it is and talked about the features like super fast ssd or audio before xbox did they would of stood on a lot better ground but they let Microsoft get there first and wow everybody with power that it underwhelmed when they talked about ps5
Coolwhhip
Neophyte
Anything to avoid real gymnastics. #gamers
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
Please here me out!
I am a PS pro owner and really wanted PS5 to come out on top from, spec-wise in raw power. I was disappointed at first as well: 12.2 flops (Xbox Series X) is more than 10.3 tflops (PS5). Also, the Xbox has faster RAM (10gigs of it, 6 gigs is slower), a faster CPU and isn't variable in its performance.
But then I read/watched some more on the topic of the SSD and -here it comes- the obvious bottleneck in the Xbox design: RAM
- The Xbox has 16gigs of GDDR6, with a portion of it being used for OS and such. 10gigs of it is even faster than its PS5 counterpart (6 gigs is slower though).
- The Xbox SSD is a lot slower than the PS5's: roughly 4.8Gb/s VS 8.5Gb/s
In theory, the SSD on PS5 could just about act as a pool of "extra RAM". At least, that is what is speculated now. I thought about the PS3 days, when the CPU was amazing, but the system was kinda gimped by a weaker GPU (= no balance). I also remembered that XBox360 was praised, mainly because of it being a balanced system: RAM, CPU and GPU were working great in tandem with eachother. No real obvious bottleneck = the key.
10gigs of its total pool of GDDR6 is superfast on Xbox, but.. will it be enough for nextgen games? Reminds me of the eDRAM sistuation with XboxOne, where a relatively small portion of memory was supposed to eleviate all problems, but turned out to be a horrible bottleneck (which was fixed with Xbox One X). PS4 was praised form the beginning for having 1 big pool of GDDR5, just like they are doing now with PS5: 1 big pool of 1 type of GDDR6.
In raw performance the Xbox Series X will undoubtedly be the faster system. Still, I think the PS5 is more balanced, because it's all about removing bottlenecks. All custom chips and its SSD design were built towards reaching that goal.
I'd love to hear developers talk about this, because I have no idea which of the two would be preferable. But the topic of possible bottlenecks and resolving them by design really fascinates me.
Just when you think you've seen everything in a console war, then someone pulls out "PS5 is more powerful than Xbox even though the hardware stayed otherwise please understand".
I finally think I've seen everything now. Thank you op.
it_wasn't_me
Banned
SSD is vastly different than what you imply with TV. But if so, better SSD than TV, TV, TV, TV, TV, TV, sport, sport, sport, water-cooler.
Nice spin btw. Surely DICE dev knows more than.....em, you.
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it_wasn't_me
Banned
2-3 of them are FORMER. Read! But of course, Xbone fans can't read
CAB_Life
Member
Thanks mr. armchair psychologist, I really needed that and feel better alreadyIt's so nice to have people on the internet telling me what's going on with me, because I am such a confused individual.
It's a console man, I - just - want - the -discussion, not a diagnosis of my state of mind. I've stated it numerous times (but I'll make it bold so you might read it) : YES THE XBOX ONE SERIES X IS MORE POWERFUL THAN THE PS5! Because I know that it is and I love MS for going all in! it is NOT the point of discussion here.
But I’m not the one spending hours on the internet playing mental masturbation with myself to try and mythically quantify numbers and properties that just aren’t there for the sake of “discussion” (read: its okayism and console envy). So maybe there is something to be said for a stranger’s appraisal of strange behaviour.
They’re all just pieces of plastic upon which myself and others will play some amazing experiences. One is simply better than the other. That is the discussion’s beginning and end point. Once we have games to look at things become more subjective.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Honestly, my sense is that Sony's design choices have been driven by a desire to create a powerful but cost-efficient system that devs will be able to do new and exciting stuff with, without driving them to PS3-era distraction with needless complication.
On the other hand SX seems driven by the singular need to be able to promote around having more "power" than the competition.
On the other hand SX seems driven by the singular need to be able to promote around having more "power" than the competition.
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
Do you write before you think? Seriously defending this shit on either side is plain stupid.
it_wasn't_me
Banned
It's even more stupid is that Xbone fans trying to put in the same basket SSD with TV, which is at least idiotic.
S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
What? This is some cope. Just call it what it is OP.
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
Not really. Sony oversells the ssd idea and Sony fanboys sucks it up blindly. Ssd is great for faster loading times etc, but let's be real. It doesn't affect much more than that.
Farawayfromhell
Member
Okay.
it_wasn't_me
Banned
Yes, really. SSD has and will have influence in games, TV, sport, water cooler not. So, Xbone fans trying to put in the same basket TV, TV, TV, TV, TV ,TV ,TV, sport, sport, sport, sport, water cooler is simple IDIOTIC.
SSD won't be just for loading times. It surely will influence game design.
What Xbone fans are trying here is really beyond pathetic and stupidity
Deliberately ignoring what Mark Cerny said yesterday about SSD
Deliberately ignoring what devs said about SSD
Deliberately trying to show PS5 as 9.2 TF console
Deliberately ignoring what Mark Cerny said yesterday about CPU and GPU that they can be both be at peak most of the time
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Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
You are clueless pal. Been saying from the start it has massive potential implications for game design.
Evil Calvin
Afraid of Boobs
Sony fanboy I see
Only enough money for one console I see.
Thank god Kleenex is still somewhat available. You need it.
Only enough money for one console I see.
Thank god Kleenex is still somewhat available. You need it.
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
Sure. I don't care, I don't have a foot in either camp as I'm a pc player.
Neur4lN01s3
Neophyte
what's the point to be balanced when you have inferior hardware? And how can you say that XSX is not more balanced?
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cookiemuffin
Member
The cope
Yes, Math is apprantely quite tricky for a lot of people i've seem posting percentages the last couple of days.
12.155 / 10.28 = 1.18239
Therefore, an 18.2% increase when calculating the same way around (the increase the larger has over the smaller) as is used for xbox one and PS4
Using the Xbox One S (rather than the original) you get 1.84 / 1.4 = 1.31428 - So only a 31.4% difference.
Additionally, the Series X will also have 20% greater RAM bandwidth for the portion that will be used by the GPU, giving a ram advantage like the PS4 has over the xbox one this gen, however, it will also have a slight CPU advantage, whereas the xbox currently has the CPU advantage this gen.
Taking the above into acocunt, and the fact that there could be slight reductions in the PS5 GPU speeds at times (I don't buy into there likely being any significant reductions), the actual difference between the next gen consoles compard to the difference between the current gen consoles (using the xbox model that has been the one sold for the last 3 1/2 years) could be quite a bit closer than people think.
Yes, the PS5 will have a faster SSD, but I don't see that giving it any graphical/FPS advantage compared to the Series X, which will already have very fast storate. As for the claim of the higher clocks providing more benefits than drawbacks which could help the PS5 close the gap, we'll need to wait and see. I feel like that is something that digital foundry will get around to testing with a couple of RDNA1 cards in the near future, if a suitable pair of cards is available to be able to achieve a similar 20ish% difference in clocks for the same TF.
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MilkyJoe
Member
Fell for that Cerney spin hook line...
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
I think 4k/60 is gonna be a struggle for the PS5 in a lot of games. I think a lot of AAA multiplats are gonna be 4k/60 on XsX and 4k/30 capped or 4k/45ish uncapped on PS5
Those flops will always matter
it_wasn't_me
Banned
Looks who's talking, a spinning TV
trikster40
Member
Having finally watched Dana Carvey’s, I mean Mark Cerny’s presentation, I do feel better about the specs. He talked about how things work, how they work together, why they are the way they are.
It may not have the most horsepower under the hood, but it seems intelligently designed with an effort to keep cost down. It could end up being $100-$200 cheaper than the XSX.
It may not have the most horsepower under the hood, but it seems intelligently designed with an effort to keep cost down. It could end up being $100-$200 cheaper than the XSX.
Xander3116
Member
If the PS5 is cheaper then the series X which it will be, it won't matter how many TFlops the Series X has as the difference will not be noticeable enough to the average consumer, Sony gets this, Microsoft still doesn't.
If Microsoft wants to compete they need to match the PS5's price.
If Microsoft wants to compete they need to match the PS5's price.
it_wasn't_me
Banned
Yes, Math is apprantely quite tricky for a lot of people i've seem posting percentages the last couple of days.
12.155 / 10.28 = 1.18239
Therefore, an 18.2% increase when calculating the same way around (the increase the larger has over the smaller) as is used for xbox one and PS4
Using the Xbox One S (rather than the original) you get 1.84 / 1.4 = 1.31428 - So only a 31.4% difference.
Additionally, the Series X will also have 20% greater RAM bandwidth for the portion that will be used by the GPU, giving a ram advantage like the PS4 has over the xbox one this gen, however, it will also have a slight CPU advantage, whereas the xbox currently has the CPU advantage this gen.
Taking the above into acocunt, and the fact that there could be slight reductions in the PS5 GPU speeds at times (I don't buy into there likely being any significant reductions), the actual difference between the next gen consoles compard to the difference between the current gen consoles (using the xbox model that has been the one sold for the last 3 1/2 years) could be quite a bit closer than people think.
Yes, the PS5 will have a faster SSD, but I don't see that giving it any graphical/FPS advantage compared to the Series X, which will already have very fast storate. As for the claim of the higher clocks providing more benefits than drawbacks which could help the PS5 close the gap, we'll need to wait and see. I feel like that is something that digital foundry will get around to testing with a couple of RDNA1 cards in the near future, if a suitable pair of cards is available to be able to achieve a similar 20ish% difference in clocks for the same TF.
You forgot that XSX has slower RAM bandwidth for CPU than PS5. And also if dev will use more than 10 GB of RAM ( in this case 13.5 for games like it says in spex sheet) average bandwidth speed falls to 476 GB/s. So, 28 GB more than PS5s. Also, PS5 RAM usage for games is still unknown thing
policestationx
Banned
Sdd sdd sdd sdd sdd audio - Mark Cerny
Iced Arcade
Member
45 seconds on the clock, hey DJ spin that shitttt
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MilkyJoe
Member
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
They spin me right round baby right round like a record baby right round
it_wasn't_me
Banned
Better SSD and audio for games than TV and sports crap
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
I'm hoping they will
Oh damn, shots fired. If the XsX really matched the PS5 price...damn...that's gonna sway me pretty hard. Hard for me to believe, honestly
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Try playing Star Citizen without a fast SSD then, see how those design decisions work for you.
LordKasual
Banned
PS fanboy here, for the most part.
The "bottleneck" talk is absolutely true, but as far as it goes for PS5 vs XBSX, BOTH consoles are removing the same bottleneck. Honestly, XBSX is the more balanced console. All of its clocks are locked and it provides extra power on a seemingly linear basis -- it's basically an Xbox One except significantly stronger. PS5 is naturally going to be much stronger than PS4 but in comparison to XBSX, to reach competitive performance it's going to have to pull more tricks most like.
The PS5's SSD is going to make a huge difference, but while it's 100% faster than the XBSX's, the XBSX's SSD is like 500% faster than most typical SSDs by itself. The XBSX also has much faster RAM.
The architecture solution for handling this in the SSD might make a difference, but outside of first-party titles i wager that the loading between XSX and PS5 will mostly be marginal.
The real thing to keep in mind here though is that although everyone is talking about TFLOPs.....the PS5 and XBSX aren't nearly far enough apart for multiplats to really experience any massive differences, and certainly not enough to hinder ports.
This is really going to be more like the difference in PS4 Pro vs. Xbox One X, but probably even less than that because of how similar the parts are.
Even in things like Raytracing, both consoles do it but will pale in comparison to actual PC GPUs, so multiplat games are likely going to target a midground for consoles that will work on both platforms.
The real show in power is going to be in exclusives....as always.
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Bladed Thesis
Member
It really is stunning how the roles have completely swapped. Like some of these posts are almost WORD for WORD Xbox One fans when the specs from both consoles were revealed.Where are those "BALANCE" memes from 2013?
The Xbox One had their secret sauce. Developers, THIRD PARTY DEVELOPERS, were excited about the cloud and DX12.
It's just too much.
Xander3116
Member
That would be huge, if they did that.
it_wasn't_me
Banned
But how much is PS5 SSD faster than than most typical SSDs? Keep in mind that XSX also has a slower RAM speed for CPU unlike PS5
iJudged
Banned
it's ok, he is getting there, only day 2.
LordKasual
Banned
I don't believe them.
If they match the price, then i might actually end up getting an xbox first this gen.
I feel like there's no way they'll get close enough to Sony to do this though.
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JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Seems like the difference is enough to make one 1800p and the other 4k, or one 60 locked fps and the other uncappd 45ish
Old Empire.
Member
Xbox series has dedicated hardware to offload the ray tracing that was omitted in their spec sheet. So the GPU actually not tasked with the Raytracing order, and not eating up the 12 teraflops of power, while running a game.
With raytracing on, argument right now till we see in action, the xbox could be over 20 teraflops of performance. The ray tracing eats up the play performance on a GPU.
According to MS the custom dedicated hardware AC has transferred that problem and produced more performance.
There some wizardry in the Xbox that needs to be seen to be believed!
With raytracing on, argument right now till we see in action, the xbox could be over 20 teraflops of performance. The ray tracing eats up the play performance on a GPU.
According to MS the custom dedicated hardware AC has transferred that problem and produced more performance.
There some wizardry in the Xbox that needs to be seen to be believed!
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Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
The xsx ram is better, full stop.
For games the xsx has:
10gb @ 560GB/s - for gpu tasks
3.5gb @ 336GB/s - for tasks that dont very high bandwidth e.g audio, physics etc
The PS5 has for games
13.5gb @448gb/s for all tasks, so the slow tasks still have to use this fast ram, and the GPU has less overall bandwidth for fast tasks.
The PS5 is less balanced because it has more potential bottlenecks.
Games will look great on both though and they are both very powerful machines so i wouldn't worry about it.
For games the xsx has:
10gb @ 560GB/s - for gpu tasks
3.5gb @ 336GB/s - for tasks that dont very high bandwidth e.g audio, physics etc
The PS5 has for games
13.5gb @448gb/s for all tasks, so the slow tasks still have to use this fast ram, and the GPU has less overall bandwidth for fast tasks.
The PS5 is less balanced because it has more potential bottlenecks.
Games will look great on both though and they are both very powerful machines so i wouldn't worry about it.
