Self High Five
Member
lol no offense op, but the thread title kinda gave it away.
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PS5 seems more balanced than Xbox One Series X
- Thread starter Bankai
- Start date
lol no offense op, but the thread title kinda gave it away.
The CPU doesn't need RAM that fast and as far as i'm aware I don't believe there would be any benefit at all in the RAM having a higher bandwidth.
Also, if the CPU and other tasks are only using 2.5GB of the slower ram and the GPU actually needed more than 10GB, for example, the GPU would only be using 1GB of the slower RAM. Assuming that this calculation makes sense technically (and the fact that any slower ram is being used at all doesn't mean something more), then the average speed of the 11GB of total RAM being used is actually 540 GBS ((560*10+336*1)/11)
However, is needing 11GB of RAM for the GPU going to be likely? That is as much as the 2080ti has, however, MS talked about including changes to the pipeline to have RAM be used more effeciently (less redundant texture loading) and the level of RAM on the 2080ti needs to be approrpiate for PC's without SSD's as fast as the nex gen consoles will have, which will reduce the need to load textures in advance.
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Psykodad
Banned
MS is playing Mandingo while Sony pulls out the Kama Sutra.
LordKasual
Banned
If it's 2x faster than Xbox's which is like 50x faster, i guess that means it's approaching 100x faster. But again that's just one metric. There's only so much the SSD can help with as far as pushing visuals goes. For game concepts and design, yes it's significant, but both consoles have access to the same benefits.
I imagine we'll see some truly crazy applications of this superior streaming in next-gen open world titles in the future. PS5 will likely excel at them, but, again, it's still a bit weaker at pushing actual visuals.
And i don't remember reading anywhere that XSX has slower ram.
PS5 has 6GBs that are faster than XSX's, but the remaining 10 on XSX are the same amount faster than PS4's. Don't know exactly how this math plays out, but in a situation where ALL of the memory is being used, PS5 and XSX should be equal in RAM....but in probably like 80% of cases and for all intents and purposes, XSX has much faster RAM.
Now, whether or not PS4's custom SSD solution helps make up this difference, i have no idea. But no matter how fast it is, it's not going to be as fast as dedicated RAM.
So again, honestly, it's not going to matter for the majority of situations.
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it_wasn't_me
Banned
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Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
More balanced the the PS4 hopefully.
LordKasual
Banned
The PS5's SSD is significantly fast enough that comparing the two honestly isn't worth much.
The reason is because the Xbox's SSD is already EXTREMELY fast.
PS5's extra speed alone is impressive, but how much of an edge it gives without diminishing returns is something that is pretty much impossible to speculate without at least some kind of practical tech demo.
But the point is, even at XBSX's SSD speeds, current-gen games would receive a head-turning boost to loading speeds.
Easiest way to visualize this isn't by looking at PS5 vs XSX, but PS5 /XSX vs. current gen. PS4's SSD speed is 50-100MB/s. XSX's is 2.4-5Gb/s. You don't need to double that number for it to look insane.
The real difference will come when we have Next-gen assets being squeezed through these holes. The 2x speed architecture of the PS5 will likely offer better loading performance and extreme concepts that work better than XSX, but again speculating is really hard without some kind of benchmark to demonstrate it.
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splattered
Member
Last gen Sony came out and surprised everyone with a last minute Ram upgrade... I wonder if MS could or even WOULD do something similar this gen?
Sony seems pretty maxed in what they can improve now save the amount of Ram but at a slower speed.
What if MS decided to throw a couple extra gigs of high bandwidth Ram in the machine before launch?
Something like that even possible?
*Not to mention so far everything has shown the XsX being cool and whisper quiet, could they upclock their specs even higher to sacrifice a bit of heat and noise if they wanted?
Sony seems pretty maxed in what they can improve now save the amount of Ram but at a slower speed.
What if MS decided to throw a couple extra gigs of high bandwidth Ram in the machine before launch?
Something like that even possible?
*Not to mention so far everything has shown the XsX being cool and whisper quiet, could they upclock their specs even higher to sacrifice a bit of heat and noise if they wanted?
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Old Empire.
Member
According to Eurogamer, the Sony GPU might not be complete feature RDNA2. They're not sure yet till they look at the internals and performance. I have awful feeling Sony ray tracing will not be same as Microsoft.
MS implies they have dedicated hardware AC in the box that offloading the ray tracing and shading/lighting changes are not done on the GPU.
MS claiming a performance of 25 teraflops with ray tracing on. Claim right now till we see for real!
MS implies they have dedicated hardware AC in the box that offloading the ray tracing and shading/lighting changes are not done on the GPU.
MS claiming a performance of 25 teraflops with ray tracing on. Claim right now till we see for real!
THEAP99
Banned
Honestly I’m not a spec guy so if all this stuff is true about ps5 being such a great console, Sony need to be out here demoing games right now and releasing developer interviews explaining why it’s so great for them. Cus the narrative is currently being set & stone that it’s very weak and it’s not good a look. They aren’t even talking about the revealed specs or promoting them anywhere
I was wondering where you got that figure, but now i've worked out it is based on a game using the 16GB of total system RAM for just the GPU. Nothing for the OS and nothing for the CPU.
I think winning the Teraflop war is enough for MS. They'll ride with what they've got at this point.
Kacho
Member
Man, a couple extra gigs of RAM would be amazing. Pretty sure it's too late for that though. If anything they'll unlock a gig or two from the available pool like they did with the X. They could even clock things up a bit if the cooling is acceptable. They're in a good spot to respond at this point and that might be in the cards.
it_wasn't_me
Banned
On ERA. And nobody said a word against it. 13.5 is for the games ( split 10-3.5 ). not 16. 6 GB of slower RAM is for the audio, CPU tasks ( if more thab 10 GB isn't used ) . If more than 10 GB is used for games , out of 6GB, 3.5 is for GPU too, but it's still slower bamdwidth. 2.5 GB is the for OS.
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Sure, the 3.5GB is avaiable the GPU, if it needs it, and if the CPU and other non-gpu related tasks are not already using it. I really don't think they are expecting it to need it though, and if anything it will be the CPU needing to use some of the faster pool.
KlickKlack
Banned
Please here me out!
I am a PS pro owner and really wanted PS5 to come out on top from, spec-wise in raw power. I was disappointed at first as well: 12.2 flops (Xbox Series X) is more than 10.3 tflops (PS5). Also, the Xbox has faster RAM (10gigs of it, 6 gigs is slower), a faster CPU and isn't variable in its performance.
But then I read/watched some more on the topic of the SSD and -here it comes- the obvious bottleneck in the Xbox design: RAM
- The Xbox has 16gigs of GDDR6, with a portion of it being used for OS and such. 10gigs of it is even faster than its PS5 counterpart (6 gigs is slower though).
- The Xbox SSD is a lot slower than the PS5's: roughly 4.8Gb/s VS 8.5Gb/s
In theory, the SSD on PS5 could just about act as a pool of "extra RAM". At least, that is what is speculated now. I thought about the PS3 days, when the CPU was amazing, but the system was kinda gimped by a weaker GPU (= no balance). I also remembered that XBox360 was praised, mainly because of it being a balanced system: RAM, CPU and GPU were working great in tandem with eachother. No real obvious bottleneck = the key.
10gigs of its total pool of GDDR6 is superfast on Xbox, but.. will it be enough for nextgen games? Reminds me of the eDRAM sistuation with XboxOne, where a relatively small portion of memory was supposed to eleviate all problems, but turned out to be a horrible bottleneck (which was fixed with Xbox One X). PS4 was praised form the beginning for having 1 big pool of GDDR5, just like they are doing now with PS5: 1 big pool of 1 type of GDDR6.
In raw performance the Xbox Series X will undoubtedly be the faster system. Still, I think the PS5 is more balanced, because it's all about removing bottlenecks. All custom chips and its SSD design were built towards reaching that goal.
I'd love to hear developers talk about this, because I have no idea which of the two would be preferable. But the topic of possible bottlenecks and resolving them by design really fascinates me.
oh boy read this and be silent:
XSX has:
Sampler Feedback Streaming (SFS) –
A component of the Xbox Velocity Architecture, SFS is a feature of the Xbox Series X hardware that allows games to load into memory, with fine granularity, only the portions of textures that the GPU needs for a scene, as it needs it. This enables far better memory utilization for textures, which is important given that every 4K texture consumes 8MB of memory. Because it avoids the wastage of loading into memory the portions of textures that are never needed, it is an effective 2x or 3x (or higher) multiplier on both amount of physical memory and SSD performance.
Mesh Shading –
Mesh shading will enable developers to dramatically improve the performance and image quality when rendering a substantial number of complex objects in a scene. As an example, mesh shaders could enable the player to experience asteroid belts and fields of flowers in more pristine detail without seeing a loss in performance.
DirectStorage –
DirectStorage is an all new I/O system designed specifically for gaming to unleash the full performance of the SSD and hardware decompression. It is one of the components that comprise the Xbox Velocity Architecture. Modern games perform asset streaming in the background to continuously load the next parts of the world while you play, and DirectStorage can reduce the CPU overhead for these I/O operations from multiple cores to taking just a small fraction of a single core; thereby freeing considerable CPU power for the game to spend on areas like better physics or more NPCs in a scene. This newest member of the DirectX family is being introduced with Xbox Series X and we plan to bring it to Windows as well.
What has Ps5 beside of fast SSD?
NOTHING
Self High Five
Member
Well to be fair, 2.23ghz is the main clock and only downgrades to a 2% drop in frequency for a 10% drop in power draw when needed. Meaning it is pretty much locked at 10 TF.
To the OP, no need to spin what this is. While PS5 does have some advantages (SSD speed, audio, etc) overall, the Series X is a stronger machine. Two caveats to make you feel better:
1) It will probably end up $100 cheaper than Series X
2) The power difference is smaller than PS4/Xb1 & Pro/XSX
For $399 in 2020, it's a pretty good machine all things considered.
pr0cs
Member
Where are those "BALANCE" memes from 2013?
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Balanced seems to be a cover-up for weaker, if I'm being honest
vito_don_corleone_
Banned
Forza 7 runs 4k60fps on Xbox One X. It has 6TFLOPS in GCN architecture. PS5 is 10TFLOPA in RDNA2. It will run games in 4K60FPS for sure...
Bankai
Member
Balanced.
And just like that op, you created a meme that will haunt this forum for the whole generation. Congrats
Wow thanks
HahaPanajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
By the same brilliant math we can deduce that something else CPU/GPU/RAM cannot be used to the max due to that less powerful SSD
.We have two strong consoles that have made many differentiating choices and are still in close proximity of each other in some metrics. Be happy about the potential such compute performance brings developers, especially the ones making exclusive XSX games in a year or so, and maybe think twice before your desire for total enemy obliteration pushes you to find the strengths of the other product and try to diminish them any way possible
.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
3.5GB of the game RAM is not ‘slow’, it’s just slower than the rest. It’s performance is about the same of that in the Xbox One X, which can clearly do 4K 60fps with high quality textures etc. Plus a chunk of it will be used by the CPU which doesn’t need the full bandwidth anyway.
Its actually a clever cost saving exercise with negligible performance penalty. They save a bit of silicon space with using a smaller BUS, and also save on GDDR6 chips. Maybe shaved 25+ dollars off the build cost, or even more.
Its actually a clever cost saving exercise with negligible performance penalty. They save a bit of silicon space with using a smaller BUS, and also save on GDDR6 chips. Maybe shaved 25+ dollars off the build cost, or even more.
Old Empire.
Member
Microsoft GDDR6 memory disruption is interesting .Dedicated 10 gigs of GGDR6 memory to feed the GPU at higher clock frequency of 560gb/s.
Sony running all 16 gigs at 448gb/s, no split.
Six gigs are dedicated to the Microsoft CPU cycles, at a slower clock.
10 gigs at higher clock allows MS to pile more assets in the game is my thinking right now?
Just like on PC cards, giving the GPU dedicated memory so everything runs smoothly and don’t have to tone down the graphics due to lack of memory.
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Neur4lN01s3
Neophyte
DunDunDunpachi
Banned
What does "balanced" even mean?
Devs are the ones who will (or won't) squeeze the power out of the thing, balance be darned.
Devs are the ones who will (or won't) squeeze the power out of the thing, balance be darned.
Slayer-33
Liverpool-2
Sony does no wrong, their wrongs get twisted into positives and wishful thinking, it would be funny to see the clobbering that XSX would have gotten if the roles were reversed.
There's sudden popularity in SSD speeds and sound! Boy oh boy!
vito_don_corleone_
Banned
I agree with one exception, the difference between PS4 Pro and One X was nearly 50%. And you could see it in most multiplats (1800p Vs 4K).
Here the difference is only 20% and I doubt many Devs will make an effort to present any noticeable difference.
I say it again, if PS5 hits 4K60FPS (looks like it easily will) people will be "content". I recommend watching latest Digital Foundry video, they explain "trickery" which could somehow help PlayStation close the gap...
Fun Fanboy
Banned
Is this what us Xbox fans sounded like at the start of this gen? Let me apologize then. Because this shit is nauseating!
Dee Dah Dave
Member
It’s not really split RAM, it’s still unified architecture like past consoles. Just the slower memory addresses are used for OS, CPU, and the less demanding game tasks.
Bankai
Member
I am spending hours on the internet playing "Mental masturbation"? This is great, you just keep believing you know the person on the other end of the interwebs interacting with you through a forum man.
What the fuck are you on about man? I'm discussing next-gen specs on this forum and you're trying to make it into something it is not.
iJudged
Banned
yes indeed shit was pathetic as is this nowIs this what us Xbox fans sounded like at the start of this gen? Let me apologize then. Because this shit is nauseating!
LordKasual
Banned
Checkerboard rendering? I wager most people can't tell the difference.
If they can checkerboard upscale titles then they can probably save an absurd amount of power and still achieve 4k60fps
Like predicted: the roles have flipped !
Bryank75
Banned
With X having expandable custom ssd cards..... no way.
This thing is a fiasco, like the PS Vita cards. How stupid are they to make them proprietary... LOL
Bo_Hazem
Banned
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Honestly in the long run the XsX SSD expansion will probably be simpler and cheaper though. The custom cards required for PS5 might not even be available at launch and will be expensive as fuck
Xaero Gravity
NEXT LEVEL lame™
This is something Reggie level spin
MaximusPayne
Member
lol...reaching
aren't Sony's flops overclocked also....whew
aren't Sony's flops overclocked also....whew
And that’s why Sony being defensive and silent was not a smart move.
Old Empire.
Member
We still don’t have the hardware acceleraltion procedure for the PS5. That’s MS secret sauce for switching from the shaders. If the PS5 has a similar approach it might not be as bad that guys claims- the PS5 gpu not completing the work- it is passed off to dedicated hardware on the RDNA2 chip. There will be still low level shading on the GPU, but ray tracing will run alongside the shaders on dedicated hardware on the chip.
sonomamashine
Member
Lol stop asking logical questions.
Bryank75
Banned
They're not custom cards..... the PS5 ones are off the shelf but have to fit the port....