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[Justin9mm]

IKR?

I also love the other argument about PCs being so versatile (aka workstation) vs shitty consoles.

I mean, come on, I already use a PC for 99% of my browsing/posting. I rarely use mobile devices for that and I NEVER use console browsers. Who are they trying to preach exactly?

Each machine has a very specific role for me. PC is a workstation, mobile is for mobility and a console is for playing video games. Nice and clean, nothing to argue about.

Yep!

There is a thread about Modern Warfare PC Version and issues where the game is not working with certain drivers for the 2080 GPU and such and having crashing issues etc.. Literally some poster said I'm over this PC shit with modern games, basically saying its always so difficult to get a game to work and run properly sometimes with his high end gaming rig.

This is where console comes in, ok yeah I have to download games and have constant patch updates, its not always just turn on and play immediately but I don't have to play around tweaking every setting like shadows, textures, aliasing etc. Dealing with stability issues because my settings aren't right. I actually have a mid tier gaming rig that can pretty much run all modern games at 1440p 60fps but I still choose to play on my X and Pro because I like sitting and relaxing in front of my big screen TV and I like my Dynamic 4K gaming and I don't have to mess with anything. Some PC Gamers don't understand that people are different and some just prefer other ways to play their games.

 

[Azurro]

IKR?

I also love the other argument about PCs being so versatile (aka workstation) vs shitty consoles.

I mean, come on, I already use a PC for 99% of my browsing/posting. I rarely use mobile devices for that and I NEVER use console browsers. Who are they trying to preach exactly?

Each machine has a very specific role for me. PC is a workstation, mobile is for mobility and a console is for playing video games. Nice and clean, nothing to argue about.

They also don't take into account the user experience. I use windows every single day at work, I don't want to go home and sit down on my desk to play a videogame. You can connect it to a big TV, but the mouse and keyboard suck when sitting on the couch and they haven't been able to replicate the streamlined simplicity of operating a console and I like my dual shock. Steam's TV mode is simply not able to reproduce this, and if you want to use a Dual Shock, the experience is pretty janky.

 

[Chairman Tickles]

I guess that you didn't do good at Developing 101

Umm, an x86 pc running games using AMD's Vulkan api, which runs natively on windows. So, I stand by my statement. It's how linux users can play most non-linux supported pc games on linux. Hell they can even make directx12 titles work. Os doesn't matter much anymore.

 

[Negotiator]

Umm, an x86 pc running games using AMD's Vulkan api, which runs natively on windows. So, I stand by my statement. It's how linux users can play most non-linux supported pc games on linux. Hell they can even make directx12 titles work. Os doesn't matter much anymore.

Doesn't look like a x86 PC to me:

|OT| - Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

Exactly. Well, it's not a full proper answer, but will be and the end of 2020. I just want to be more careful about the info nothing more. No problem. I disagree, but I'm willing to wait for further confirmation.

www.neogaf.com

 

[Freeman76]

Point is, it doesn't matter how powerful consoles are, devs will still target 30fps 80% of the time.

I think you are wrong here, time will tell though, neither of us can predict the future.

 

[psorcerer]

There is a clear obsession with fps on the "masterrace" camp.
The reasons are simle:
1. PC ports of console games can be differentiated only by fps and slight iq changes. Quantative differences only. Justifies higher price point.
2. PCs are notoriously bad at frame pacing. Mostly because of fat apis and hw abstraction. And if the target is a 16ms frame it's a lot less noticable.

 

[Stuart360]

I think you are wrong here, time will tell though, neither of us can predict the future.

Of course we cant say with 100% certainty either way, but we literally have this same conversation before every new gen, and every new gen is the same. Majority of the games being 30fps, with 10-20% being 60fps.

 

[Stuart360]

There is a clear obsession with fps on the "masterrace" camp.
The reasons are simle:
1. PC ports of console games can be differentiated only by fps and slight iq changes. Quantative differences only. Justifies higher price point.
2. PCs are notoriously bad at frame pacing. Mostly because of fat apis and hw abstraction. And if the target is a 16ms frame it's a lot less noticable.

As a PC gamer, i'll give you that one. 30fps often looks terrible on PC due to bad frame pacing. Thankfully i did a ton of testing and messing about 3 or 4 years ago, and found a way to get a perfectly framepaced 30fps on most PC games, not all unfortunately, but most.
I do think you are being a little unfair though in regards to 60fps. You may be fine with 30fps on console, i may be fine with 30fps on some PC games, but there is no denying that 60fps not only looks a hell of a lot better, but plays a hell of a lot better as well.

 

[psorcerer]

As a PC gamer, i'll give you that one. 30fps often looks terrible on PC due to bad frame pacing. Thankfully i did a ton of testing and messing about 3 or 4 years ago, and found a way to get a perfectly framepaced 30fps on most PC games, not all unfortunately, but most.
I do think you are being a little unfair though in regards to 60fps. You may be fine with 30fps on console, i may be fine with 30fps on some PC games, but there is no denying that 60fps not only looks a hell of a lot better, but plays a hell of a lot better as well.

1. I would say that you can get to perfectly paced 30fps if your PC can do >>20ms/frame in the same game (that's how I played Witcher 3 on PC, for example). But it will be hard to get a perfectly paced 30 fps game if you are around 30ms per frame.
2. 60 fps looks and plays nice, but for example 30 fps with a full motion blur will probably look much better just because that's how most Holywood movies are made.

 

[Freeman76]

Of course we cant say with 100% certainty either way, but we literally have this same conversation before every new gen, and every new gen is the same. Majority of the games being 30fps, with 10-20% being 60fps.

I think thats starting to change with greater awareness of tech etc, but as you say, no way of knowing yet

 

[Shadowstar39]

I like consoles. I have a pc but nothing has pushed pcs since crysis. So even my old gtx970 set up can run modern games

Sure, some games have a higher res or higher frame rate but its not worth the trade off of comfort and convenience?

Yeah this is what holds me from upgrading. I'm still running a i3 3ghz from 2011. I only upgraded my 7870 because it died. I'm on a 1060gtx now and it runs everyrhing

. Crysis and never winter nights2 had me go to a 8800gts and then that held me til Ati7870. Nothing after crysis has pushed pcs and I don't own 4k so it's just 1080p I need. My ps4 handles my multiplatform needs. If devs would target pc like they used to I would more inclined. Where the hell is half life3, a new Stalker game, something. No today it's just multiplatform, indies, and freemium on pc. We don't even get rts games anymore

 

[diffusionx]

They also don't take into account the user experience. I use windows every single day at work, I don't want to go home and sit down on my desk to play a videogame. You can connect it to a big TV, but the mouse and keyboard suck when sitting on the couch and they haven't been able to replicate the streamlined simplicity of operating a console and I like my dual shock. Steam's TV mode is simply not able to reproduce this, and if you want to use a Dual Shock, the experience is pretty janky.

I actually find Steam BPM more intuitive to use than Xbox's OS, which somehow, after six years and tons of updates is still a disaster. And once I'm in the game, it's the same experience, except the games look and run better. I find it strange people are still making the comfy couch argument honestly.

I will grant that PCs are more complicated and can be more finicky, but that's the price you pay for a higher ceiling. To me, consoles getting "close" to a PC is just a fool's errand, it will never happen because that's not the point of consoles. Consoles are supposed to be about pick up and play, convenience, and simplicity, and I actually think they lost a lot of that this past gen.

 

[Romulus]

One thing I was considering earlier. This is probably the closest to X360 we've come in terms of well rounded consoles. Even on the lower end estimates there's no jaguar level or ps3 gpu/memory tier nonsense.

That doesn't mean 4k 60fps across the board of course, but I've noticed console devs slowly targeting higher/more stable fps. 360 and ps3 was god awful in terms of performance, whereas this gen we've seen "performance" mode options and games that target 30fps are much more stable overall. That's considering the cpu was pretty terrible in ps4/xb1.


What really excites me is thinking about what developers like Japan Studio will be able to do with an Astrobot sequel. The first game is gorgeous inside the headset with a rock solid 60fps.

 

[adamosmaki]

Close to what PC exactly? Base ps4 is close to pc, a shitty one but none the less close to a pc

 

[ResilientBanana]

Close to what PC exactly? Base ps4 is close to pc, a shitty one but none the less close to a pc

Honestly, the next-gen thread believes we will be getting $2,500 PC's in a $500 box.

 

[adamosmaki]

Honestly, the next-gen thread believes we will be getting $2,500 PC's in a $500 box.

People will be disappointed when they will get what essentially will most likely be a 5700 series Gpu ( If MS and Sony feel a bit generous they stick the full fat XT without cutbacks there but i doubt ) and a low clocked 6 core ryzen 2 cpu at best

 

[Negotiator]

Honestly, the next-gen thread believes we will be getting $2,500 PC's in a $500 box.

Proof or it didn't happen.

People will be disappointed when they will get what essentially will most likely be a 5700 series Gpu ( If MS and Sony feel a bit generous they stick the full fat XT without cutbacks there but i doubt ) and a low clocked 6 core ryzen 2 cpu at best

WTF? Did you miss the memo?

 

[adamosmaki]

Proof or it didn't happen.


WTF? Did you miss the memo?

What memo? The rumor that it will be 8core? Even if they stick an 8 core do you actually believe it will be the full fat £300 ryzen 3700x paired with a £400GPU? Yes i know MS and Sony buy in bulk and certainly wont cost them that much but how much of a low price you think AMD will sell them those parts ?

 

[ResilientBanana]

Proof or it didn't happen.


WTF? Did you miss the memo?

When the GPU is being compared to a 2080ti, there’s an issue. As for proof, just go to the thread.

 

[Negotiator]

What memo? The rumor that it will be 8core?

It's not a rumor, it's a confirmed fact (8C/16T).

Just admit you were wrong about the 6 cores.

When the GPU is being compared to a 2080ti, there’s an issue. As for proof, just go to the thread.

It saddens me when people think 2080 Ti truly costs $1199.

Even $1000 iPhones don't cost more than 300-400 tops.

For reference:

 

[nkarafo]

I have a PC, will it be close to mine?

No wait, i have 3 PCs actually. Which one will be close to?

 

[Lister]

It's not a rumor, it's a confirmed fact (8C/16T).

Just admit you were wrong about the 6 cores.


It saddens me when people think 2080 Ti truly costs $1199.

Even $1000 iPhones don't cost more than 300-400 tops.

For reference:

I'm pretty sure given the ray tracing tech, the 2080ti is probably closer to manufacturing costs than those older cards. Plus manufacturing costs aren't the whole story.

Even if you were to argue that Sony could essentially rob AMD and get their top line GPU for 45% of retail price (which won't happen), that's still a $300 GPU to somehow fit into a $400 console, plus the fact that AMD still doesn't compete in the high end in terms of performance with Nvidia, plus the thermal requirements of a console, plus the limitations of a SoC.

It's still pretty delusional to think Sony is going to fit a high end gaming PC into a console.

But that's what console gamers ALWAYS believe near the start of a new console gen. Last time around the PS4 was going to have 780ti's in SLI and secret sauce CPU. And then a 750ti beat its performance for the first 2 years of life.

I do think this gen the console will be stronger out of the gate. Last time they were still adjusting to switching over to what is essentially customized PC hardware, but no you're not getting $1,500 gaming performance in your $400 console.

 

[adamosmaki]

It's not a rumor, it's a confirmed fact (8C/16T).

Just admit you were wrong about the 6 cores.


It saddens me when people think 2080 Ti truly costs $1199.

Even $1000 iPhones don't cost more than 300-400 tops.

For reference:

So what if its confirmed is an 8 core? Again that tells us nothing how it compares to something like a ryzen 3700x
No one told you that a 2080ti costs 1200 to AMD to make but again how much low of a price do you think AMD will sell a GPU that will have 2080ti performance to Sony in order to be possible to put it in a $500 console? Let alone AMD doesnt have anything anywhere close to a 2080ti. It doesnt even have something close to a vanilla 2080
Do you actually believe the ps5 with a $500 price tag will have a top of the line CPU and a gpu akin to an 2080ti performance wise ?
Now if Sony will make an $800 console i might believe it will have top of the line performance ( and even that will be a bit hard to achieve )

 

[Lister]

So what if its confirmed is an 8 core? Again that tells us nothing how it compares to something like a ryzen 3700x
No one told you that a 2080ti costs 1200 to AMD to make but again how much low of a price do you think AMD will sell a GPU that will have 2080ti performance to Sony in order to be possible to put it in a $500 console? Let alone AMD doesnt have anything anywhere close to a 2080ti. It doesnt even have something close to a vanilla 2080
Do you actually believe the ps5 with a $500 price tag will have a top of the line CPU and a gpu akin to an 2080ti performance wise ?
Now if Sony will make an $800 console i might believe it will have top of the line performance ( and even that will be a bit hard to achieve )

Yeah if Sony is willing to up the ante and make a $800 console, then I can see it being pretty damn high end.... but they won't.

 

[ResilientBanana]

It's not a rumor, it's a confirmed fact (8C/16T).

Just admit you were wrong about the 6 cores.


It saddens me when people think 2080 Ti truly costs $1199.

Even $1000 iPhones don't cost more than 300-400 tops.

For reference:

It saddens me when people live there lives in Delusion, pulling out BOMs without thinking about the marketing costs, packaging costs, R&D Costs, Distribution costs, tariffs, taxes, overhead and so on that took those components and so on.

 

[Negotiator]

It saddens me when people live there lives in Delusion, pulling out BOMs without thinking about the marketing costs, packaging costs, R&D Costs, Distribution costs, tariffs, taxes, overhead and so on that took those components and so on.

So you're saying $1199 is justified for 2080 Ti? Is that why nVidia had less profits with Turing last year? Hell, even Apple had to slightly drop their prices this year.

I never said they should sell PC parts at cost (unlike consoles), but you have to understand there's something called price gouging. Intel is also guilty of that.

If Mr. Leather JacketMan has convinced you these are normal prices, then I don't know what else to say. Ignorance is bliss.

I'm pretty sure given the ray tracing tech, the 2080ti is probably closer to manufacturing costs than those older cards. Plus manufacturing costs aren't the whole story.

That's a dumb take. Ray tracing isn't a new tech.

You could argue that what drives the cost up is the huge 754mm2 die, but you didn't even say that, sooooo...

hint: RT cores take less than 15% of the die space. It's not the culprit.

Even if you were to argue that Sony could essentially rob AMD and get their top line GPU for 45% of retail price (which won't happen), that's still a $300 GPU to somehow fit into a $400 console.

I'll give you 2 examples from AMD to understand why there's no price gouging in consoles:

1) OG XB1 APU (363mm2) $110

2) AMD Ryzen 5 2400G (210mm2) $149

Please explain how consoles get nearly double the amount of die space for less money.

And then a 750ti beat its performance for the first 2 years of life.

You're highly ignorant if you don't know why that happened with the infamous i3/750 Ti combo (how does it run newer games? where's the longevity?).

Educate yourself about single-threaded old engines vs multi-threaded engines with GPU compute. Personally, I've done my homework long time ago. Maybe you should do the same.

 

[Kenpachii]

i3 4130 and 750 ti seems to run control at 30 fps at 1080p, PS4 does not. So i would say he's right.

 

[ResilientBanana]

So you're saying $1199 is justified for 2080 Ti? Is that why nVidia had less profits with Turing last year? Hell, even Apple had to slightly drop their prices this year.

I never said they should sell PC parts at cost (unlike consoles), but you have to understand there's something called price gouging. Intel is also guilty of that.

If Mr. Leather JacketMan has convinced you these are normal prices, then I don't know what else to say. Ignorance is bliss.

I repeat, you will not get a $2,500 PC in a $500 console.

 

[Negotiator]

i3 4130 and 750 ti seems to run control at 30 fps at 1080p, PS4 does not. So i would say he's right.

PS4 runs this game at 1080p 60 fps. You guys know jackshit about multi-threading and GPU compute. Proper Demoscene-style coding.

Also this one (post #48):

So the xbone has surpassed the i3 + 750 ti combo. (Rise of the tomb raider) - PC

For PC on the PC, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "So the xbone has surpassed the i3 + 750 ti combo. (Rise of the tomb raider)" - Page 5.

gamefaqs.gamespot.com

I repeat, you will not get a $2,500 PC in a $500 console.

You're repeating a strawman argument.

$500 consoles are supposed to match $1000 PCs (double cost vs consoles). 2080 (Ti) will be a mid-range GPU next-year (Ampere RTX 3060-3070). I guess you don't know how hardware evolution works via die shrinks (12 -> 7nm).

 

[Kenpachii]

PS4 runs this game at 1080p 60 fps. You guys know jackshit about multi-threading and GPU compute. Proper Demoscene-style coding.

Also this one (post #48):

So the xbone has surpassed the i3 + 750 ti combo. (Rise of the tomb raider) - PC

For PC on the PC, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "So the xbone has surpassed the i3 + 750 ti combo. (Rise of the tomb raider)" - Page 5.

gamefaqs.gamespot.com

You're repeating a strawman argument.

$500 consoles are supposed to match $1000 PCs (double cost vs consoles). 2080 (Ti) will be a mid-range GPU next-year (Ampere RTX 3060-3070). I guess you don't know how hardware evolution works via die shrinks (12 -> 7nm).

Keep dreaming bro. Go google any comparison and PS4 gets outperformed by a 750 ti in 95% of the titles.

The 750 ti and that shitty i3 where a meme build to showcase people how weak the PS4 really was on top of it, anybody with already years of older mid level hardware would trump that performance of that PS4 easily.

I have no clue what you are trying to proof here, it aint working thats for sure.

The PS4 was this almighty 8 core beast of a super pc architecture with instant access as everything was on the same soc directly connected that would perform like high end pc's.
With 8 gb of v-ram that's double that of top end pc gpu's with a modern GPU architecture that has some muscles behind it that would with the cpu easily push 60 fps in all games at next gen graphical fidelity because optimisation and sony magic and even more magic, so much magic its just magical. blablabla.

Everybody praised it even devs like witcher 3.

Yet when the games hitted it ran them barely on playable frame rates with barely hitting 1080p, witcher 3 , ac unity, watch dogs. at a mix bag of settings.

Then the 750 ti and i3 combo popped up as a meme to showcase how this turd of a pc combo outperformed a PS4 that was oh so special.

U mentioned how that setup lasted. well it runs control at ~30 fps with dips to 25 vs PS4 at lower resolution at ~25fps and dips to 10 fps. See how that goes.

Why control? last released most demanding title out there.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Umm, an x86 pc running games using AMD's Vulkan api, which runs natively on windows. So, I stand by my statement. It's how linux users can play most non-linux supported pc games on linux. Hell they can even make directx12 titles work. Os doesn't matter much anymore.

A computer architecture is much more than its CPU and GPU architectures.

Then the 750 ti and i3 combo popped up this turd of a pc combo that outperformed a PS4 that was oh so special.

Have you tried to play FarCry 3 on it? because whatever the detail level that game wasn't playable on my i3

The 750 ti and that shitty i3 where a meme build to showcase people how weak the PS4 really was on top of it, anybody with already years of older mid level hardware would trump that performance of that PS4 easily.

The i3 is shitty, but it<s not as good was what is in the PS4, certainly not in Doom 2016, the video shown above, that you fake not understanding, or did not bother watching, runs at some really bad frame rates. frame rates so low that I would just not play an FPS at all with this setup.

Same for the witcher 3, it just works apparently in the same performance range.

 

[Negotiator]

A computer architecture is much more than its CPU and GPU architectures.

Have you tried to play FarCry 3 on it? because whatever the detail level that game wasn't playable on my i3

The i3 is shitty, but it<s not as good was what is in the PS4, certainly not in Doom 2016, the video shown above, that you fake not understanding, or did not bother watching, runs at some really bad frame rates. frame rates so low that I would just not play an FPS at all with this setup.

Same for the witcher 3, it just works apparently in the same performance range.

It's pointless to try to educate PCMR peeps (otherwise known as neo-PC gamers). I bet they don't even know what Demoscene is. Most of them got a PC during the last decade.

At least old school PC gamers (long before Steam became a trend) were far more knowledgeable and appreciated low-level/assembly programming:



Shame Remedy (aka Future Crew) isn't as good as they used to be.

 

[IbizaPocholo]

PS5’s SSD and Zen 2 CPU Will Be An Evolution, Not A Revolution – Eastshade Developer

gamingbolt.com