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News PS5's HDMI 2.1 is currently capped at 32Gbps bandwidth.

What TV you would get or have for it?


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Elias

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Looks like the series x outputs 4k 120fps at 12bits. Nice little future proofing.https://youtu.be/UIXsTq6_OfY
 
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Bo_Hazem

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Base PS4:



Which was rated first as HDMI 1.4 but HDMI 2.0-ready in 2013! Yes, future proofing:

Rigby guessed last year that the PlayStation 4's HDMI controller is HDMI 2.0 compatible—meaning, it had been developed with higher bandwidth than the HDMI 1.4 spec required, and it just needed an official update via firmware to unlock and unleash that potential. Now, House has confirmed that it's coming, because anything rated for HDR specifications is technically also ready for 4K resolution.

 

Venuspower

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Ok, source? Please post the model number of that Panasonic HDMI chip here, or a screenshot.
The chip is not the problem.
PS5 is using a Panasonic chip with the model numer: MN864739.
PS4 PRO used Panasonic MN864729 and PS4 this one: MN86472A

Which means that the PS5 does indeed have a newer chip.

But that does not change the fact that the PS5 does out output at 40 Gbps or 48 Gbps.
At least not at the moment. Right now PS5 is limited to 32 Gbps. This is why PS5 is
not able to output 4k@120@444 and has to "downgrade" to 4k@120@422.

This can also be spotted if you are connecting your PS5 to a 2020 Denon or Marantz AVR
with the latest firmware since it can tell you the max. FRL bandwidth of the connected device.
At the moment this value you can spot there is 32 Gbps for PS5 and 40 Gbps for Series X.

Since Sony claimed support for 8K I hope this is just a temporary "downgrade".
While 8K could run with 32 Gbps it would be capped at 30 Hz. I do not think that
Sony would advertise such a product as 8K. However, there is still a chance
that the PS5 does indeed does not go above 32 Gbps.
 

Bo_Hazem

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The chip is not the problem.
PS5 is using a Panasonic chip with the model numer: MN864739.
PS4 PRO used Panasonic MN864729 and PS4 this one: MN86472A

Which means that the PS5 does indeed have a newer chip.

But that does not change the fact that the PS5 does out output at 40 Gbps or 48 Gbps.
At least not at the moment. Right now PS5 is limited to 32 Gbps. This is why PS5 is
not able to output 4k@120@444 and has to "downgrade" to 4k@120@422.

This can also be spotted if you are connecting your PS5 to a 2020 Denon or Marantz AVR
with the latest firmware since it can tell you the max. FRL bandwidth of the connected device.
At the moment this value you can spot there is 32 Gbps for PS5 and 40 Gbps for Series X.

Since Sony claimed support for 8K I hope this is just a temporary "downgrade".
While 8K could run with 32 Gbps it would be capped at 30 Hz. I do not think that
Sony would advertise such a product as 8K. However, there is still a chance
that the PS5 does indeed does not go above 32 Gbps.
What is your source for this crap?
 

RoadHazard

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My next TV will definitely be a Sony OLED with 2.1 support. Currently have a Sony LCD that's 2.0 but great other than that. The LGs seem very nice too, but I just don't want to give up Android TV. Also, I keep hearing about people having HDMI-CEC issues and resorting to turning it off, but for me all that works flawlessly in my Sony-only setup (PS4 Pro, Sony receiver, Sony TV).
 
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CobraXT

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You know that model number is HDMI 2.0 chip used on PS4, right? So you and the genius that fed you this crap are the only ones in the world who know this? And how did you even read the numbers?
So why the PS5 force the output resolution to 1080p of you choose 120fps mode in DMC5 ?
i did test my XSX and it can do 4K/120fps signal, until there is a proof that PS5 can do the
same i am still convinced its indeed sub 40Gbps hdmi bandwidth

 
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Bo_Hazem

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People with a PS5 and a 2020 Denon AVR.
Feel free to go to AVSForum.com and ask overe there.
Yes maybe you better stop listening to randos. Receivers having problems with Xbox Series X as well, if you were following the news:


So don't rely on that Denon AVR reading as problems seem mutual. Also:

 
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Bo_Hazem

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People with a PS5 and a 2020 Denon AVR.
Feel free to go to AVSForum.com and ask overe there.
Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Xbox Series X HDMI 2.1 ISSUES | No 4K120 HDR or 8K60





Seems those receivers are hindering the signal. Hope this clears things up.

Didn't get the OLED as I was worried about burn in because it's just for gaming.
What model do you have, mate?
 
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Venuspower

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Yes maybe you better stop listening to randos. Receivers having problems with Xbox Series X as well, if you were following the news:
Yes. With Series X, but not with PS5 and NVIDIA 3000-series GPUs (*).
Maybe you want to do your research before posting.
There are around 60000 FRL patterns. Only 12 are bugged
in the HDMI 2.1 chip from Panasonic Solutions. Unfortunately
the Series X is also using those while PS5 and NVIDIAs latest GPUs do not.

(*) NVIDIA GPUs are working just fine when connected to a Denon AVR
even though it was first mentioned that they also would not work. But
this has been proven false. The only problem left with NVIDIA GPUs is
a bugged Hot Plug Detect. But this is a NVIDIA problem that
will be fixed in a future drive update. Usually the HPD should occur every
time you trigger a new handshake. But the 3000er series only does this HPD
one single time. This is "deadly" for AVRs.
Which is why you are getting issues after triggering a handshake
when a 3000er series GPU is connected to such an AVR.

tl;dr
No, PS5 is working just fine when connected to a Denon AVR.

Edit:


As can be seen in this picture 120 Hz is only supported with YUV422 engaged.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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Yes. With Series X, but not with PS5 and NVIDIA 3000-series GPUs (*).
Maybe you want to do your research before posting.
There are around 60000 FRL patterns. Only 12 are bugged
in the HDMI 2.1 chip from Panasonic Solutions. Unfortunately
the Series X is also using those while PS5 and NVIDIAs latest GPUs do not.

(*) NVIDIA GPUs are working just fine when connected to a Denon AVR
even though it was first mentioned that they also would not work. But
this has been proven false. The only problem left with NVIDIA GPUs is
a bugged Hot Plug Detect. But this is a NVIDIA problem that
will be fixed in a future drive update. Usually the HPD should occur every
time you trigger a new handshake. But the 3000er series only does this HPD
one single time. This is "deadly" for AVRs.
Which is why you are getting issues after triggering a handshake
when a 3000er series GPU is connected to such an AVR.

tl;dr
No, PS5 is working just fine when connected to a Denon AVR.
Yeah I would stick to TV reading for now, and so far Techradar showed 48Gbps bandwidth, and waiting for Vincent.

Well, that's interesting. According to social media the Xbox Series X was the only console capable of outputting to Dolby Vision? What's going on here?
This TV doesn't do Dolby Vision at 4K@120Hz. Not sure if there is another TV that supports it as Dolby Vision, the hardware based, is pretty taxing even at 4K@60Hz. That's why you have a dedicated Dolby Vision 4K@60Hz mode.
 
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Venuspower

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Yeah I would stick to TV reading for now, and so far Techradar showed 48Gbps bandwidth, and waiting for Vincent.
I really do not know if those guys are credible.
To me it looks like that an editor has not done his homework.
Which is why he believes that HDMI 2.1 = 48 Gbps. Which is not true.

Even in the video you posted you can clearly see that the PS5 is limited to 4K@120@420 or 4K@120@422.
Which simply means that the PS5 does not reach 40 Gbps at all. Thus confirming the readouts (32 Gbps) from
Denon and Marantz AVRs.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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I really do not know if those guys are credible.
To me it looks like that an editor has not done his homework.
Which is why he believes that HDMI 2.1 = 48 Gbps. Which is not true.

Even in the video you posted you can clearly see that the PS5 is limited to 4K@120@420 or 4K@120@422.
Which simply means that the PS5 does not reach 40 Gbps at all. Thus confirming the readouts (32 Gbps) from
Denon and Marantz AVRs.
That's not PS5, but the TV itself. Although the TV supports 48Gbps as well and proved by Vincent, it still has no VRR, ALLM support yet. So they are in parallel you may say.

I'll wait for HDTVTest to confirm it though.
 
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Venuspower

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That's not PS5, but the TV itself.
It is.
You get the same result when
your PS5 is connected to a LG C9 (only 422 since it does not support 420) or a CX.

Here is another picture from a C9 user:



Source:

He also mentions something like "he is only getting 4K@60 when connected to a X4700H".
But this only means that he forgot to change the input to "8K Enhanced" (which is required in order
to get 4K@120 or 8k@60 to work).
 
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Bo_Hazem

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It is.
You get the same result when
your PS5 is connected to a LG C9 (only 422 since it does not support 420) or a CX.

Here is another picture from a C9 user:

Then it'll be patched later, just like XH90 started with only HDMI 2.0 with a chipset that's 48Gbps rated.
 

Inviusx

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It is.
You get the same result when
your PS5 is connected to a LG C9 (only 422 since it does not support 420) or a CX.

Here is another picture from a C9 user:



Source:

He also mentions something like "he is only getting 4K@60 when connected to a X4700H".
But this only means that he forgot to change the input to "8K Enhanced" (which is required in order
to get 4K@120 or 8k@60 to work).
Yeah same as mine. C9 user here. It's 4k 120hz but only YUV 422.
 
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Venuspower

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Then it'll be patched later, just like XH90 started with only HDMI 2.0 with a chipset that's 48Gbps rated.
The XH90 already got his update to unlock the full bandwidth of 48 Gbps.
This has been confirmed by Vincent Teoh himself with his Muridio signal generator.
Which means that it can do 4K@120@444 just fine. Well... except the bug where the TV internally
downscales the image. But that does not prevent the source device from sending a 4K@120@444 signal.

But I also think that Sony will add support for 40 Gbps or maybe even 48 Gbps later on.
At the moment I think (or let's say hope) that they have limited the HDMI chipset to 32 Gbps
in order to get a higher compatibility with TVs and HDMI cables (at the moment there are still no certified "HDMI 2.1" cables on the market). Otherwise people would start to complain over black screens etc.. Now they should not run in to that many complaints regarding black screens.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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The XH90 already got his update to unlock the full bandwidth of 48 Gbps.
This has been confirmed by Vincent Teoh himself with his Muridio signal generator.
Which means that it can do 4K@120@444 just fine. Well... except the bug where the TV internally
downscales the image. But that does not prevent the source device from sending a 4K@120@444 signal.

But I also think that Sony will add support for 40 Gbps or maybe even 48 Gbps later on.
At the moment I think (or let's say hope) that they have limited the HDMI chipset to 32 Gbps
in order to get a higher compatibility with TVs and HDMI cables (at the moment there are still no certified "HDMI 2.1" cables on the market). Otherwise people would start to complain over black screens etc.. Now they should not run in to that many complaints regarding black screens.
Makes sense. Thanks for the details.
 

Jigga117

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Where the fuck did you bring this FUD from? You know that 36.4Gbps is DP 1.4 bandwidth? Bring a solid source and cut the crap. And yes, PS5 has a full bandwidth of 48Gbps as reviewed by Techradar, and waiting for HDTVTest (Vincent) to clear it out. It shouldn't be less than 40Gbps in the worst case scenario, but it's most likely 48Gbps to support Sony's 8K Bravia TV's like ZH8 at upscaled 8K@60Hz.




So back off of this fucking FUD.
It doesn’t need to be 48Gbps to support 8k@60 because 40.1Gbps is capable for 8k@60. We jumped from HDMI 2.0 18Gbps to 40.1/48Gbps.
 
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Jigga117

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Looks like the series x outputs 4k 120fps at 12bits. Nice little future proofing.https://youtu.be/UIXsTq6_OfY
It drops it down to 8bit. And you can see this real time with an LG OLED. 12bit was selectable on previous Xbox consoles which does nothing. The Xbox can’t do 4k@120hz 12bit because it is only 40.1Gbps. 10bit is going to be better for any 10bit panel. The PS5 being 48Gbps doesn’t guarantee we are going to get games that are 12bit. The content has to be made for it to benefit. Just selecting it as an option isn’t enough.
 
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Elias

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It drops it down to 8bit. And you can see this real time with an LG OLED. 12bit was selectable on previous Xbox consoles which does nothing. The Xbox can’t do 4k@120hz 12bit because it is only 40.1Gbps. 10bit is going to be better for any 10bit panel. The PS5 being 48Gbps doesn’t guarantee we are going to get games that are 12bit. The content has to be made for it to benefit. Just selecting it as an option isn’t enough.
If you actually watched the video, you would see it doesn't drop down to 8bit when paired with a 48gbps tv set.
 

Duellist

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So was the HDMI cable that came with ps4 pro a 2.1 cable? It's got the exact same markings as the ps5 one? I figured they were the same and just used the old ps4 pro one.
 

Jigga117

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If you actually watched the video, you would see it doesn't drop down to 8bit when paired with a 48gbps tv set.
When I get a chance I would be happy to show a video that shows the internal change in the tv itself. You can select 12bit. It will show 12bit on the Xbox. It will not be 12bit internally on the tv. It isn’t capable for one and the Xbox has been able to choose 12bit since he Xbox 360. It does nothing at the end of the day.
 
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BGs

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I don't know why there is so much doubt, but I think things have always been clear.


Will PS5 support 4K at 120Hz modes?

Yes, PS5 supports the HDMI 2.1 specification. HDMI 2.1 supports 4K 120Hz, but HDMI 2.1-compatible 4K TVs have not yet fully penetrated the market.

Click here for more information.
In any case, obviously, to be able to enjoy certain resolutions, it is necessary to have the appropriate configuration in all the components (screen or tv, cables, correct configuration of all the components, firmware, source (game or movie), etc ... ) and above all do not use any of the components that are known to cause problems, such as certain AVs.

At the hardware level, PS5 is not the problem.
 
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Moogle11

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I bought a 65” Sony X900h for $998 in early October. I’ve been super pleased with it, still waiting on my PS5 from Coscto though so haven’t been able to test that.

From other sites there’s apparently issues with blurriness in 4k120 for PC users. Haven’t checked back to see if it’s also an issue with PS5. I do t much care personally as I don’t play many of the types of games that will prioritize 120 and more often play in graphics modes rather than higher frame rates anyway since I mostly play cinematic single player games.

X900H was just a great 65” TV for that price to finally upgrade to 4K/HDR and I wanted a full array local dimming LED as having zero worries about image retention is a must for me as that tv really only gets used for gaming and sports. The good for gaming OLEDs are more expensive than I’m willing to pay for a TV as someone who’s not an A\V enthusiast and who rarely watches movies etc anyway.
 
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Moogle11

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PS5 was announced to feature VRR.

I assume they just didn't have time to have everything ready for launch and VRR is one of these things to be included a few weeks later via a firmware update, like to store PS5 games on external storage or the web browser. Or in case of Series X, Quick Resume support for all games.
The Sony X900H TVs also don’t support VRR yet. That wasn’t part of the first firm ware update that enabled some of of the HDMI 2.1 features last month. That and ALLM are supposed to be added sometime next year. So seems like Sony is a bit behind in the 2.1 stuff in general.

To be fair, it seems like pretty much every TV and receiver with 2.1 support has some kind of issues or limitations currently. Just the way it is in the early days if a new standard with lots of links to work out I guess.
 
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Venuspower

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with the latest firmware since it can tell you the max. FRL bandwidth of the connected device.
At the moment this value you can spot there is 32 Gbps for PS5 and 40 Gbps for Series X.
I just got my PS5 today.
Just to prove it once again:


My setup:
- AVR: Denon X6700H
- TV: LG OLED C9
- Source: PS5 connected to the Denon X6700H.

As can be seen next to "FRL Bandbreite" (german for "FRL bandwidth")
the PS5 outputs at 32 Gbps.

Let us hope that this is just a temporary limitation.

Do not be confused by "Max. FRL Bandbreite". This is the maximum bandwidth my LG C9 supports.

Edit: Before someone asks: I took this screenshot from the Webinterface of the X6700H.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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I just got my PS5 today.
Just to prove it once again:


My setup:
- AVR: Denon X6700H
- TV: LG OLED C9
- Source: PS5 connected to the Denon X6700H.

As can be seen next to "FRL Bandbreite" (german for "FRL bandwidth")
the PS5 outputs at 32 Gbps.

Let us hope that this is just a temporary limitation.

Do not be confused by "Max. FRL Bandbreite". This is the maximum bandwidth my LG C9 supports.

Edit: Before someone asks: I took this screenshot from the Webinterface of the X6700H.
Thank you for the details. Have mentioned that in the OP on Saturday and now gonna add your post.
 
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Raging_Rooster

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I've just discovered some kind of bug that results in system level HDR calibration seemingly reseting upon launching a new game. It's painfully obvious in Black Ops Cold War as when it disregards your calibration settings the game has a washed out haze look.

It will persist with this error until you close the app and redo the calibration again. Not sure what triggers it but somethings not right.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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I've just discovered some kind of bug that results in system level HDR calibration seemingly reseting upon launching a new game. It's painfully obvious in Black Ops Cold War as when it disregards your calibration settings the game has a washed out haze look.

It will persist with this error until you close the app and redo the calibration again. Not sure what triggers it but somethings not right.
I figured out that PS5 only outputs 12-bit, so my current HDMI 2.1 4K HDR TV can't do it so it drops from 4:4:4 to 4:2:2. Strangely, even at 120Hz it prioritize 12-bit although dropping to 4:2:2 instead of 10-bit 4:4:4. But it seems to force it to 8-bit on screen although the signal itself is 12-bit. It's still capped at 32Gbps and should get 40-48Gbps in a future update including VRR.
 

DeepEnigma

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I figured out that PS5 only outputs 12-bit, so my current HDMI 2.1 4K HDR TV can't do it so it drops from 4:4:4 to 4:2:2. Strangely, even at 120Hz it prioritize 12-bit although dropping to 4:2:2 instead of 10-bit 4:4:4. But it seems to force it to 8-bit on screen although the signal itself is 12-bit. It's still capped at 32Gbps and should get 40-48Gbps in a future update including VRR.
Which TV?
 
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Bo_Hazem

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2016 Sony XD70 4K HDR. Old already. Seen XH90 in person and that shit looks as close as it gets to OLED which is mind-blowing for only 32 local dimming zones. Only shows that Sony are masters of processing and algorithms.

Getting XH90 after 1-3 months when my financials are settled as buying Sony a7S III which is fucking expensive.
 
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Kerlurk

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Looks like the series x outputs 4k 120fps at 12bits. Nice little future proofing.https://youtu.be/UIXsTq6_OfY
It's nice to know that there are people in the world who think that 1 billion colors is not enough!

Can't wait for 12-bit content.

Just what the world needs, 68 billion colors!!! :rolleyes:

We're all going to get superior eye implants in the future in order to see it.
 
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