Support NeoGAF

[TheSeks]

I bought Quake 3 on day one. I still have the tin box. Yet I play BF and COD on PS3. Fuck off with this condescending horse shit.

IAWTC. But then again it's SmokeyDave so idiotic comments can abound at times.

 

[timmy01]

I am guessing that the "Testing" mentioned by PlaystationNL is simply the "Testing" we have been hearing about since last week. I wouldn't get your hopes up.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

You act as if they wanted this to happen, or that they are just having a BBQ outside and ignoring your pleas.

No, he's acting like a consumer who is dissatisfied that his product isn't working as advertised.

 

[Gekko87]

I figure most Black Ops players on PS3 chose that platform for one or more of the following reasons, in this order of importance:

1) Their friends or clan already play the game on PS3
2) They prefer the PS3 controller over the 360 controller
3) They don't own an Xbox 360, and just aren't interested in buying one
4) They just prefer to buy their multiplatform games on PS3 for some reason... I'm sure many of these folks exist.
5) PSN is free

Fixed

 

[SolsticeZero]

No, he's acting like a consumer who is dissatisfied that his product isn't working as advertised.

What if your product is advertised as not working? Would your product then work as advertised even though it's not?

 

[Inanna]

Now that you mention it though, the community is almost certainly larger and more active on the 360. Online and FPS are kind of the 360's 'thing'. I can't say for sure though, I don't play CoD.

I don't care about CoD, but there are many online games that I play religiously. I can't imagine not playing online games and I'm a PS3 only gamer, although I do PC gaming occasionally too. But my point is that people like me do exist! I don't get why people think that only xbox360 has "hardcore" online players.

 

[SolsticeZero]

I don't care about CoD, but there are many online games that I play religiously. I can't imagine not playing online games and I'm a PS3 only gamer, although I do PC gaming occasionally too. But my point is that people like me do exist! I don't get why people think that only xbox360 has "hardcore" online players.

That's what confused me, too.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

What if your product is advertised as not working? Would your product then work as advertised even though it's not?

First of all, to your credit, I did chuckle.

Second of all, I'll gladly amend to "not working as it was pitched when the product was purchased."

 

[alphaNoid]

I sure hope its all up by E3, if not, I wouldn't want to be on that stage talking.

Even if they get PSN up before E3, its going to be terribly awkward for Sony to get on stage and try to excite consumers about anything Playstation. They could announce PS4 and people would be like .. 'oh neat.. I guess'.

People aren't going to forget this outage for a long time, and these news articles about PS3 trade in's etc.. is a clear example of that.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

You act as if they wanted this to happen, or that they are just having a BBQ outside and ignoring your pleas.

Sony and the developers are working and testing to make sure the PSN is up and secure. Even the fellows at Zipper have lent a hand:
http://www.examiner.com/ps3-in-chicago/socom-4-stats-updated-internal-psn-testing-going-on

Ah the Sony defenders never get old.

 

[SolsticeZero]

First of all, to your credit, I did chuckle.

Second of all, I'll gladly amend to "not working as it was pitched when the product was purchased."

Well, I'm glad it got a chuckle. I wasn't being serious about it, by the way. It was all just a joke. =P

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Ah the Sony defenders never get old.

Wait, let's be fair here, you were firmly in the "Sony's doing everything they can and I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt" camp until about this past weekend.

Edit:

Well, I'm glad it got a chuckle. I wasn't being serious about it, by the way. It was all just a joke. =P

I assumed as much. But still, it was a point that merited clarification!

 

[GavinGT]

And I'm guessing that the testers are all Sony employees. There's no way they'd let potential hackers be among the first to test the updated network. What if they overlooked something huge?

 

[Hanmik]

First of all, to your credit, I did chuckle.

Second of all, I'll gladly amend to "not working as it was pitched when the product was purchased."

I bought a new PS3 2 weeks ago,.. no one pitched anything to me.. No one told me PSN was down, but then again no one even told me The PS3 could use PSN when I bought it ...

 

[TheSpoiler]

No, he's acting like a consumer who is dissatisfied that his product isn't working as advertised.

Which is fine and understandable.

But if a company is actively trying to fix and correct the problem, I don't see the reason for continuous hatred. Things need time to get fixed, and they've already apologized. They are even planning compensation.

It's like going to a restaurant and complaining that they didn't give you the correct dish. That's cool, but if they are in the back making the new one for you with extra edibles and sauce, should you go back in the kitchen and scream at them to hurry up?

 

[SmokyDave]

I don't care about CoD, but there are many online games that I play religiously. I can't imagine not playing online games and I'm a PS3 only gamer, although I do PC gaming occasionally too. But my point is that people like me do exist! I don't get why people think that only xbox360 has "hardcore" online players.

Oh man. One last time. The truly hardcore, I agree with Solstice, play on PC.

Of the console gamers that are left, some of them really, really, really like CoD. We'll call them 'Alberts' for the sake of clarity. I would think 'Alberts', who love CoD enough to trade their consoles in the event of an outage, at great personal expense, would want the 'best' console to play CoD on. As far as I can tell, that console is the 360.

We're not talking about 'hardcore' players or 'online' players, only CoD fanatics.

 

[Angry Fork]

Sony's had less bumps in the road than most other platform holders and this is the thanks you show them? I've been angry about this as much as the next guy but it takes a sane person to know when to push and when to forgive. I'm going to do my part by spending $80 on PSN when it comes back up and I suggest you do the same... I suggest everyone of the 77 million users do the same. Imagine what 1.6 billion dollars can do for a company like Sony after this kind of crisis. We should all be thinking about what we can do to help. If Sony goes down, could you seriously live with all those lost jobs on your head? My friend always said people in stone glasses can't through houses. He was right in many ways even though he was wrong in the head; I knew what he meant. You could learn a thing or two about optimism from him.

I don't know if you can link a n4g article here but someone commented on the article "ps3 trade ins on the rise" with this exact comment lol. Either they copied it from him or it's the same guy.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

Wait, let's be fair here, you were firmly in the "Sony's doing everything they can and I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt" camp until about this past weekend.

Edit:

I assumed as much. But still, it was a point that merited clarification!

I was being fair. I gave Sony the rope to hang themselves. They had given us a target date and I gave them till that date. I said then once they missed that date everyone was free to unload.

Also till that time they were communicating worth a shit too. Now they aren't communicating worth a shit and they can't give us a straight fucking answer.

Which is fine and understandable.

But if a company is actively trying to fix and correct the problem, I don't see the reason for continuous hatred. Things need time to get fixed, and they've already apologized. They are even planning compensation.

It's like going to a restaurant and complaining that they didn't give you the correct dish. That's cool, but if they are in the back making the new one for you with extra edibles and sauce, should you go back in the kitchen and scream at them to hurry up?

No but you wouldn't sit around for 3 hours while they make the new dish and they keep telling you it will be out in a couple mins.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I bought a new PS3 2 weeks ago,.. no one pitched anything to me.. No one told me PSN was down, but then again no one even told me The PS3 could use PSN when I bought it ...

I don't understand your point. Regardless of why you bought the system, it was pitched as a connected device. If that connected aspect of it is an important feature to someone, that person will understandably be somewhere in the spectrum from outraged to disappointed if that feature ceases to work properly (or in this case, at all).

 

[Chris_C]

Exactly. Shutting down the entire PSN may have been a good idea for the short term to analyze the damages and the security weakpoint, but keeping the entire system down while they overhaul the entire security backbone is madness.

Or is it

Spoiler

Sparta?

Sorry, I'll leave you alone now. It's been a long day.

 

[Kafel]

It's a conspiracy, Sony planned all of this. The real reasons are still unknown.

 

[TheSpoiler]

Ah the Sony defenders never get old.

Ah, the old stand by of "YOU ARE DEFENDING SONY." This might shock you, but I'm really one of those people who just don't care either way when it comes to this FOR or AGAINST Sony business.

f they weren't doing anything, then I'd be violate and pissy. But they are, and shit like this takes time. I'm not happy that when I buy Brink, I won't be able to access probably the best feature of that game. But I'm not going to hang Sony for it. You know what I mean?

 

[Steve Youngblood]

That's cool, but if they are in the back making the new one for you with extra edibles and sauce, should you go back in the kitchen and scream at them to hurry up?

Did they say that my new dish would be ready in 20 minutes, and now an hour has passed? Better yet, let's drop the analogy entirely.

 

[JABEE]

Which is fine and understandable.

But if a company is actively trying to fix and correct the problem, I don't see the reason for continuous hatred. Things need time to get fixed, and they've already apologized. They are even planning compensation.

It's like going to a restaurant and complaining that they didn't give you the correct dish. That's cool, but if they are in the back making the new one for you with extra edibles and sauce, should you go back in the kitchen and scream at them to hurry up?

If they make me wait two and half hours for that dish I'm getting the hell out of the restaurant and going somewhere else.

 

[Kosma]

If they make me wait two and half hours for that dish I'm getting the hell out of the restaurant and going somewhere else.

Pretty much.

At least in a restaurant you don't pay upfront.

 

[Hanmik]

I don't understand your point. Regardless of why you bought the system, it was pitched as a connected device. If that connected aspect of it is an important feature to someone, that person will understandably be somewhere in the spectrum from outraged to disappointed if that feature ceases to work properly (or in this case, at all).

maybe I do not understand "your" concept of the word pitched..

but never mind me.. I´m just here for the ride untill the PSN-express makes his next stop on planet Hanmik. My New PS3 feels terribly sad not having any profiles or games on its HDD..

 

[timmy01]

Even if they get PSN up before E3, its going to be terribly awkward for Sony to get on stage and try to excite consumers about anything Playstation. They could announce PS4 and people would be like .. 'oh neat.. I guess'.

People aren't going to forget this outage for a long time, and these news articles about PS3 trade in's etc.. is a clear example of that.

I disagree on both counts.

people will forget about this once everything is back to normal, PROVIDED THAT ANOTHER BREACH DOESN'T OCCUR. Assuming that last part holds, as soon as we are back to weekly releases on the store, online gaming, etc.. people aren't really going to give a shit about this.

as for your second.. everyone has a different threshold for this annoyance. the ones who were trading their shit in on the first week or two were reactionary impulsive idiots. yes they are still demo dollars out there, but being reactionary impulsive idiots it's not too far fetched to believe that they'll be back once their whimsy turns back to a PS3 exclusive, or their 360 dies on them, or it happens to be rainy/sunny outside.

By the third week now we're definitely seeing the gradual breaking point for everyone move further and further along. Anyone taking action at this point is still a moron.. but there are probably a number of sensible people who are asking themselves "How much longer am I going to be ok with this?". And rightfully so. Sony clearly DOESN'T know what they're doing.. and we have no idea when PSN will be back. These folks are probably setting dates in their heads at this point. Two more weeks. E3. End of June. etc.

The only point at which sony is definitely screwed in the long term is if they are down long enough that they start losing these sensible gamers. Because that's when it goes from moronic whimsy to actual logical brand distrust. I definitely don't think we're at that point now.. I have a feeling if somehow we do make it to E3 with no PSN..... that's going to be a REAL turning point for the brand.

but no... the shit going on now with actual action will have no long term effect. and if it's up by say this week or next week, and back to status quo by the end of the month... there might be some mentions in E3 blogs and articles, but by fall it will be nothing more than a sentence at most in the history of gaming, and probably not even that.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

If they make me wait two and half hours for that dish I'm getting the hell out of the restaurant and going somewhere else.

Exactly. You wouldn't sit there for 3 or 4 hours and listen to the waitress coming out every couple mins going oh it'll be out in a few more mins. After awhile you'd get your ass up and take your business elsewhere.

 

[TheSpoiler]

No but you wouldn't sit around for 3 hours while they make the new dish and they keep telling you it will be out in a couple mins.

Did they really keep giving estimated times? I'm talking about their blogs, not the overblown sensationalized articles everyone wrote saying IT'S COMING or IT'S NOT COMING FOR EVA.

I DO remember them saying "a few days" once last week, but the another blog post came out saying it may take longer.

Welp, back to single player and studying for finals then.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

maybe I do not understand "your" concept of the word pitched..

I don't understand the quotation marks and italicizing utilized there that seems to draw ambiguity to my point, as I think it's pretty clear. Let's go to this site:

http://us.playstation.com/ps3/features/

There's a tab there for the Playstation Network, and there's a tab for Connectivity. Meaning, its ability to connect to the interwebs is a prominent feature of the console that they advertise, or "pitch" if you will.

 

[Proteus IV]

I do find this Socom testing thing interesting though. If you go to their leaderboards and set the time range to weekly you can see that there are 40 accounts that have been playing it, all started playing 2 days ago and at leat 10 of them have handles starting with "sp-int_temp" so it appears progress is being made.

 

[alphaNoid]

Even the GAF natives are getting restless now.

 

[JABEE]

Did they really keep giving estimated times? I'm talking about their blogs, not the overblown sensationalized articles everyone wrote saying IT'S COMING or IT'S NOT COMING FOR EVA.

I DO remember them saying "a few days" once last week, but the another blog post came out saying it may take longer.

Welp, back to single player and studying for finals then.

The first time it went down they said it would be up in "a couple days." Then in an official press release they said "this week." Now they are saying online in the "next few days." It has been at this point over three weeks since PSN has been down. The PS Store is supposed to be up in TBD. It pretty much is the waiter scenario in a metaphorical sense.

 

[Lord Error]

Exactly. Shutting down the entire PSN may have been a good idea for the short term to analyze the damages and the security weakpoint, but keeping the entire system down while they overhaul the entire security backbone is madness.

Imagine if this happened to a bank: "We're sorry that for the last three weeks you weren't able to deposit or withdraw any money. Any day now, we thank you for your patience and continued support!"

I honestly wonder at this point if PSN will recover from this and regain the same enthusiasm and user numbers it had before.

 

[Automatisch]

Sony should just cancel the PS3 too and relaunch "it stronger than ever" with this new mindset.

 

[alphaNoid]

Did they really keep giving estimated times? I'm talking about their blogs, not the overblown sensationalized articles everyone wrote saying IT'S COMING or IT'S NOT COMING FOR EVA.

I DO remember them saying "a few days" once last week, but the another blog post came out saying it may take longer.

Welp, back to single player and studying for finals then.

IIRC its been officially..

1. "It'll be up within a week!"
2. "A few more days..."
3. "Just a few more days..."

Its been over 3 weeks, approaching a month.

 

[LiK]

Even the GAF natives are getting restless now.

Already past that point. People are moving on.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

The first time it went down they said it would be up in "a couple days." Then in an official press release they said "this week." Now they are saying online in the "next few days." It has been at this point over three weeks since PSN has been down. The PS Store is supposed to be up in TBD. It pretty much is the waiter scenario in a metaphorical sense.

Exactly at first it was a couple days. I can understand changing it to a week after they found out how bad the breach was. Of course came that it's going to be a week line. Since then it was a couple more days, then soon, now a couple more days. So clearly they have moved those goal posts time and time again. The worst part is that with each time their communication is getting worse and worse.

 

[diffusionx]

By the third week now we're definitely seeing the gradual breaking point for everyone move further and further along. Anyone taking action at this point is still a moron.. but there are probably a number of sensible people who are asking themselves "How much longer am I going to be ok with this?". And rightfully so. Sony clearly DOESN'T know what they're doing.. and we have no idea when PSN will be back. These folks are probably setting dates in their heads at this point. Two more weeks. E3. End of June. etc.

I really don't think anyone who is taking action at this point is a moron. I don't get much time to play games with work and studies but it's still a semi-important part of my day (the people who are like "lol go outside" can fuck off too). It's part of my routine, I use it to unwind, so if I see Sony bumbling around for weeks with no end in sight I may decide that the $300 for another system is a wise investment.

A week? Shit happens. Two weeks? Okay that's a while but things will be righted. Three weeks and counting? Just terrible. Honestly, if they hit four they might as well not even bother.

 

[03sho]

Been posted yet?

http://www.gamersmint.com/sony-select-group-testing-psn-in-us-eu-and-japan

 

[alstein]

Like I said earlier in this thread, there will come a point where the downtime will cost Sony more than the hack did. Actually we may have reached that point a while ago.

A person who is trading in their PS3 this week clearly was willing to give Sony the benefit of the doubt (since they didn't trade it in a week or two ago), but now they are just fed up. Problem is, all those PS3s traded in are lost customers, maybe forever.

Sony needs to get the online gaming section up like, yesterday. I am sure they know this, but it's getting really bad.

I'm giving them two more weeks. I would have swapped it in this week, but I'm not going to get to play consoles at all next week anyways, so they a break on that one. It's going to be $500 total to get what I want, but I can afford the $500, and I'll be done with Sony forever if it comes to that.

I'm concerned that when PSN does come back, the fighting games folks will have left, so what's the point of hanging on at that point if there will be nothing to come back to?

 

[Interfectum]

Anyone taking action at this point is still a moron..

How do you figure that?

 

[mufraka]

I do find this Socom testing thing interesting though. If you go to their leaderboards and set the time range to weekly you can see that there are 40 accounts that have been playing it, all started playing 2 days ago and at leat 10 of them have handles starting with "sp-int_temp" so it appears progress is being made.

Yep. Here's a screenshot for one of those IDs profile:

Playing since May 10th.

BELIEVE.

 

[SolsticeZero]

I'm giving them two more weeks. I would have swapped it in this week, but I'm not going to get to play consoles at all next week anyways, so they a break on that one.

I'm concerned that when PSN does come back, the fighting games folks will have left.

As dramatic as people have made it seem, it's only a small percentage who are probably trading in their consoles. Those people will still be there.

 

[alphaNoid]

Already past that point. People are moving on.

Actually you are correct. I recall when the news first hit that PSN was down, and I remembering thinking to myself.."Oh man, if its down for a day thats REAL bad."

Spoiler

I manage data centers and site connectivity

. Around that time GAF was fairly optimistic about PSN and being patient... A lot has changed around here since then, and I think the GAF community by and large can be fairly patient and forgiving.

I never would have guessed that PSN or any other major service in the world would be down for nearly a month. I do not blame consumers, consumers who have choice and a voice with money to walk away.

The few stragglers left here defending Sony are really reaching and its starting to become entertaining. Eventually PSN will come online and a vast majority will rejoice, take their free games and go back to their online ways. But the Sony brand, the Playstation and PSN brand have been forever tarnished and people are not going to forget.

Its unfortunate for Sony but a lesson learned.

 

[Lord Error]

Of the console gamers that are left, some of them really, really, really like CoD. We'll call them 'Alberts' for the sake of clarity. I would think 'Alberts', who love CoD enough to trade their consoles in the event of an outage, at great personal expense, would want the 'best' console to play CoD on. As far as I can tell, that console is the 360.

We're not talking about 'hardcore' players or 'online' players, only CoD fanatics.

Your Albers are the same kind of people who play WoW, far from tech-hardcore that you're making them out to be. For them, there's no ostensible difference in CoD games between the two consoles. It functionally plays the same, and graphical details are not something they'll ever notice or care about. They are not the kind of people who are going to read Digital Foundry comparisons to make purchase decisions.

 

[JABEE]

Are these PSN IDs actual consumers or is this all internal testing?

 

[littleornothin]

http://magleaderboards.com shows a lot of activity the last week as well.

 

[Kagari]

I can say that we've gotten a lot of calls about the PSN AND we've gotten several trades of PS3s, black ops, and headsets. I can definitely feel the difference.

The ones trading in are a very small percentage of the userbase. As a whole, most people are just frustrated and still waiting it out. I think Pachter actually explained this best.

They'd better update us today, this is getting ridiculous.

 

[Inanna]

Oh man. One last time. The truly hardcore, I agree with Solstice, play on PC.

Of the console gamers that are left, some of them really, really, really like CoD. We'll call them 'Alberts' for the sake of clarity. I would think 'Alberts', who love CoD enough to trade their consoles in the event of an outage, at great personal expense, would want the 'best' console to play CoD on. As far as I can tell, that console is the 360.

We're not talking about 'hardcore' players or 'online' players, only CoD fanatics.

Ah, that makes sense. Although, your post that I quoted above did also sort of imply that online gamers (FPS or otherwise, along with CoD fans) in general exist on 360. Sorry for the confusion!

I'm no fangirl, though, I'll go wherever the online is free, besides PSN+PC combo has served me well!