The_White_Rose
Member
If all the investors back out, what happens?
If all the investors back out, what happens?
Aren't they locked in at this point?
Aren't they locked in at this point?
If all the investors back out, what happens?
No. the investment amount was based on investors "reserving" an investment.
The investors have no obligation to make that investment and can back out if they want to. The investment in Wasteland 3 works the same way and although $2.2 has been reserved by investors, none of that money will be collected until the offering is approved by the SEC and investors actually submit the money (could take 9 months if it takes the same time as psychonauts 2).
Forgive me if this has already been explained...but
The funding amount currently displayed on the Fig website for Psychonauts 2 (like $3.8 mill). Is that everything they've collected or does that include the investment "promises"?
That includes investment promises of $2M which have not yet been collected. So about 50% of the money still needs to be collected and there's a good chance most of it won't be.
so a cool method for gamers to invest that might die because it started on a very niche game
I don't really understand why people are freaking out. It's an investment, and all investments come with risk. You have the data, make a decision on your own based on it. Who knows, it could end up being the next GOTY - highly unlikely - but that's what putting your money where your mouth is all about.
I plan to buy it at full price when it launches. Tim & Co. deserve that from me.
So, I don't know if this has been asked, but is it a bit shady that they changed the terms of the investment in the 9 months while this SEC stuff was finalised? I mean, on the emails sent out to smaller investors who'd reserved a 'spot' so to speak, is it clearly marked that the terms of investment have changed, or that there is a screen where you have to review the minutiae of the deal before it is finalised?
I don't really understand why people are freaking out. It's an investment, and all investments come with risk. You have the data, make a decision on your own based on it. Who knows, it could end up being the next GOTY - highly unlikely - but that's what putting your money where your mouth is all about.
I plan to buy it at full price when it launches. Tim & Co. deserve that from me.
You misunderstand why some people invest. You're starting with the assumption that investing means you're looking to profit. The people who choose to be an investor on fig are the type of investors who back passion projects with the goal of seeing the person or groups passion project completed. With Kickstarter, you only have rewards. However, just because an investor paid into a project doesn't mean they actually want the product. They just wanted to fullfill somebody's dream. Fig offers traditional crowdfunding rewards, but, for those people who dont actually want the games, they can choose to invest instead and maybe get some money back.
This post is bizarre. That's not what investment is about. I guess some people might actually invest with that mindset, but I'm absolutely sure they are the vast minority. Why wouldn't they donate then, if their main goal is "fulfilling passion projects"?You misunderstand why some people invest. You're starting with the assumption that investing means you're looking to profit. The people who choose to be an investor on fig are the type of investors who back passion projects with the goal of seeing the person or groups passion project completed. With Kickstarter, you only have rewards. However, just because an investor paid into a project doesn't mean they actually want the product. They just wanted to fullfill somebody's dream. Fig offers traditional crowdfunding rewards, but, for those people who dont actually want the games, they can choose to invest instead and maybe get some money back.
They will have less funds than anticipated and they'll need to either:
1) Reduce the scope of the game
2) Increase the funding coming from Double Fine
3) Increase the funding coming from the unnamed Large investor
4) Seek an alternative source of funding
5) Cancel the game
But even if Fig and Double Fine can reach those many hundreds, perhaps thousands of investors who reserved the right to purchase shares in the project, those individuals are under no obligation to actually pay up.
That’s why Fig has promised to provide that money itself, if need be.
"We have agreed to fund an amount to Psychonauts 2 regardless of collections," Fig founder and CEO Justin Bailey told Polygon during a telephone interview yesterday. It’s the same promise Fig has made to other teams, including the one behind Consortium: The Tower, which raised nearly $350,000 via Fig in May.
No. the investment amount was based on investors "reserving" an investment.
The investors have no obligation to make that investment and can back out if they want to. The investment in Wasteland 3 works the same way and although $2.2 has been reserved by investors, none of that money will be collected until the offering is approved by the SEC and investors actually submit the money (could take 9 months if it takes the same time as psychonauts 2).
5) Cancel the game
Signed on as an investor and did not think they were gonna ask for $60 a unit 😱
I signed up for wasteland 3, but I was iffy with the process and the return (if any). I didn't pledge any yet...
Question: Can existing investors back out? Is there any monetary loss?
No. the investment amount was based on investors "reserving" an investment.
The investors have no obligation to make that investment and can back out if they want to. The investment in Wasteland 3 works the same way and although $2.2 has been reserved by investors, none of that money will be collected until the offering is approved by the SEC and investors actually submit the money (could take 9 months if it takes the same time as psychonauts 2).
They will have less funds than anticipated and they'll need to either:
1) Reduce the scope of the game
2) Increase the funding coming from Double Fine
3) Increase the funding coming from the unnamed Large investor
4) Seek an alternative source of funding
5) Cancel the game
They could also resubmit their SEC filing with revised terms that doesn't clearly give Fig investors a small residual claim of cash flows. I highly doubt the break even for the developer and private investor are that low. I understand that they maybe shouldn't be at the same level due to substantial risks that the other investors bear, but this is a joke.
Funny enough, it mentions in that disclosure that 0% of funds from DLC and expansions will go to the investor pool.same goes for the planned VR Psychonauts game or any Psychonauts 2 sales on VR platforms.They should just lock a quarter of the game's content behind a 50$ season pass and give any money from that to investors.
Using UE4 probably cut a lot of costs already while giving us amazing visuals. Also they are getting some money from an outside investor.Find ways to lower that number. Lower production cost, find ways to get sponsors, work out deals, and so on. It doesn't need to look like Uncharted 4.
Reading the original article, isn't the ROI 60% (300 profit on a 500 investment)? That still seems well above general market returns for it to be a realistic outcome (or so high risk that a 60% ROI is what makes it worthwhile). Either way, it's poor form to change the information presented in a discreet manner like that.
I don't really understand why people are freaking out. It's an investment, and all investments come with risk. You have the data, make a decision on your own based on it. Who knows, it could end up being the next GOTY - highly unlikely - but that's what putting your money where your mouth is all about.
2 million copies at 60 bucks? In what universe does anyone think that is going to happen?
My guess would be they need to get to $30 in order to get some decent sales on this type of game. Especially because most of the die hard Psychonauts fans already backed this and thus already have a copy.
The average price for the game when all is said and done will probably be around $15. That means they need to sell....6 million copies? And that is just for investors to get their initial investment back? Yikes.
This is not a risky investment. This is the equivalent of funding a Uwe Boll movie. The only reason to do this is for tax purposes.
(Also posting this in the reddit thread since the author of this thread referenced it but left out the detail about 30% being a minimum on dividends, which is a pretty fundamental omission to his analysis) You can find that post here, but there are also inaccuracies in that math.
I'd love to respond in more detail, but we're heavily regulated and everything has to go through a process, so it makes responding on forums kind of difficult. For instance, I can't respond about tax questions, then I'm giving tax advice - I can't make certain statements about financial analysis, because they could be viewed as investment advice, or could be used later as a forward looking statement. Anyway, it makes having an active dialog very limited and delayed.
I can tell you that the 30% is a minimum that's there to give investor confidence that we intend to pay at least that amount, and we're not limited to that, we can pay more. I can't be more detailed than that because it then needs to go through the process, filed with the SEC, etc. I can tell you that we have been actively evaluating how to communicate/illustrate this more concisely, and that solution could potentially include altering the minimum for other games, since we have to use the minimum in all our illustrations, and that seems to be causing a lot of confusion on this point.
I would encourage anyone starting detailed threads regarding new business models and filings to also examine other filings and compare them to our statements. Without that context, it's easy to draw conclusions and arguments that are largely based on hyperbole.
And also, to echo other's comments, our aim is to give people an option to invest larger amounts of money (instead of just donating them), and in so doing help us support a game. In return, they get the opportunity for a return based on the financial performance of that game. We think that's what's missing from the current ecosystem and we're proud to provide another alternative to developers and gamers.
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An offering statement relating to Fig Publishing, Inc.’s Fig Game Shares - PSY2 has been filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission and has been qualified. Prior to any investment in Fig Game Shares - PSY2, you should review a copy of the offering circular included in such offering statement by clicking on the following link: Fig Game Shares - PSY2 offering circular, or by requesting a copy by phone at 415-689-5789 or by writing to Fig at 599 Third St., Suite 211, San Francisco, CA 94107. No offer to sell any securities, and no solicitation of an offer to buy any securities, is being made in any jurisdiction in which such offer, sale or solicitation would not be permitted by applicable law.
Says it will fund "an amount". They need to be up front with specific amounts. Because if they don't completely make up the difference to $3.3 million then the project should be canceled and all backer money refunded.
The bottom line is that Double Fine will receive every single one of the dollars due to it after its successful $3.83 million Fig campaign. Additionally, anyone who would like to purchase available, outstanding, non-accredited shares of the project can do so starting today.