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Punch-Out!! Kickstarter (Book)

H

Hero_of_the_Day

Member
@MUWANdo said:
http://www.hyrulehistoria.com/

Knock yourself out, son.
Click to expand...

Isn't that just some timeline bullshit for the fiction? I guess I don't know enough about it. But, this book looks interesting to me for the pictures of things I've never seen before like the merchandising and magazine articles:

Xwbzw.jpg


4HkL4.jpg
 
R

rainking187

Member
I thought this from his FAQ was somewhat amusing:

If I tried to get permission before starting, the book would not exist. Nintendo would have refused and/or the delays would have deterred me.
Click to expand...

It seems like it would have saved himself a lot of time and effort by having Nintendo refuse this before he did all this work. He also seems to believe that by starting a Kickstarter without permission he has increased his chances of getting this approved by Nintendo. Seems really unlikely to me, but whatever.
 
A

Anustart

Member
rainking187 said:
I thought this from his FAQ was somewhat amusing:



It seems like it would have saved himself a lot of time and effort by having Nintendo refuse this before he did all this work. He also seems to believe that by starting a Kickstarter without permission he has increased his chances of getting this approved by Nintendo. Seems really unlikely to me, but whatever.
Click to expand...

I believe he's stated that he'll allow people to purchase it at the 165$ per book for a single print of the book. I believe the reason for the kickstarter is to try and get that bulk discount for those who want it.
 
IrishNinja

IrishNinja

Member
^so he'll sell it without permission then? kinda lost there, part of me thinks it's such a small run maybe he should've just put it out there & tried to stay under the radar in the process.
 
M

Mario

Sidhe / PikPok
rainking187 said:
It seems like it would have saved himself a lot of time and effort by having Nintendo refuse this before he did all this work. He also seems to believe that by starting a Kickstarter without permission he has increased his chances of getting this approved by Nintendo. Seems really unlikely to me, but whatever.
Click to expand...

He has actually put Nintendo in a position where they need to defend their IP, from a minimum at the trademark level. They are COMPELLED to defend their trademarks by law.

So, he actually made the situation worse.
 
A

Anustart

Member
IrishNinja said:
^so he'll sell it without permission then? kinda lost there, part of me thinks it's such a small run maybe he should've just put it out there & tried to stay under the radar in the process.
Click to expand...

Don't quote me, but that's my understanding. If he doesn't get the permissions it'll still be made available, just at higher cost since the KS will have to be cancelled, and thus no bulk discount.
 
Amory

Amory

Member
I'm sitting here seriously considering dropping the $125 for this book. It's flat-out gorgeous, and Punch-Out!! was probably my favorite NES game.

Is the general consensus still that this is never going to happen? Even with the positive press in the gaming community he's managed to drum up? Because if there's no shot, I'd rather not have my money tied up for several months hoping I get refunded.
 
E

exmachina64

Banned
Aw hell, why not? I can't afford the $125 level because of my contributions to various Kick starters, but I can afford $10. Not a big fan of the franchise because the original was before my time, but it seems like a decent fan project. Besides that, I love gaming history. If it is able to be released, I'll have a nice PDF to read on my tablet.
 
V

Visualante2

Member
One hundred and twenty five dollars. $40 for the Sensible Software book is a fucking bargain in comparison, and that project is for profit.
 
M

Mandoric

Banned
Visualante2 said:
One hundred and twenty five dollars. $40 for the Sensible Software book is a fucking bargain in comparison, and that project is for profit.
Click to expand...

Printing is exceedingly, horrifically expensive in America, and this dude seems to have just gone down the premium option list ticking every box. Doesn't really amaze me.
 
R

RomanticHeroX

Member
That seems totally reasonable for a good, comprehensive book like that. Problem is he'll never get permission from the license holders and I wouldn't risk $125 on the premise of I promise I'll totally give this back if this doesn't work. If this book were already finished and printed I'd buy one right now.
 
Amory

Amory

Member
Is there any legal reason he'd have to give back the money if he can't get permission from Nintendo?

No, right?
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
I think the Metroid book is close to shipping, if it hasn't shipped already, so I don't think Nintendo cares.
Although I guess that was fair-use "parody" instead of straight up screen grabs or whatever.
 
P

Portalbox

Member
Honestly, Kickstarters are getting kind of ridiculous, especially these ones that cross the line between what's legal and what's not. $125 for a limited-print book?
 
S

Suzzopher

Member
As good as that book looks, there is no way I would pay that much to secure a print copy. I think £50 would be my absolute limit.
 
IrishNinja

IrishNinja

Member
firehawk12 said:
I think the Metroid book is close to shipping, if it hasn't shipped already, so I don't think Nintendo cares.
Although I guess that was fair-use "parody" instead of straight up screen grabs or whatever.
Click to expand...

i got soooo hyped when i read this, cause id love a Metroid book done in this manner...but you mean the comic one, dont you? its nice too, just...ah well
 
Mitsurux

Mitsurux

Member
The book looks amazing... but i feel that the cost is a little high, and what are the possibilities that Nintendo would even licsense this officially? (what about Tyson himself?)
 
M

mackattk

Member
I would like to get the hardcover book, but $125 is too rich for my blood at this time in my life. Might get the ebook though, but I hate reading graphical ebooks on the computer.

On a sidenote, did anybody click and hold on the images down the page to enlarge them? Neogaf's quoted images are rubbing off on me, lol.
 
H

Hakai

Member
This book is looking awesome, but it is too expensive. A shame that we can't get Offical material like this.
 
H

Hobbun

Member
I love Punch Out! and it looks like a lot of care went into this book. I really wish him the best. However, unfortunately I just don't see Nintendo green-lighting this.
 
T

tokkun

Member
If he doesn't get Nintendo's approval and has to return the pledges, what about the cut that Kickstarter takes?
 
F

Fuzzy

I would bang a hot farmer!
KMD said:
Sinister1 is streaming a book reading it seems. More information for those who have kicked in.

Book reading.
Click to expand...
I never paid attention to how big the book was until he held it up. I have no excuse either because there's a pic with it behind a NES on the kickstarter page.
 
A

Anustart

Member
Project Update #12: Funding Cancellation Pending
Posted by Daniel Lanciana Like

After a lot of consideration and discussion with everyone involved with the book (e.g. editors, Matt Turk, Sinister1), I've decided not to take your money...yet! Whilst disappointing it is the best and most rational decision and we ask for your understanding.

The main reasons for doing this are:

-Too many unknowns: Nintendo are slow to respond, nothing from Tyson, and Pix'n Love Publishing is still a possibility. I chose a tight deadline because it was the actual anniversary of the book and I stick by that decision.

-Legal advice: Still in conversation with a copyright lawyer on my options and liabilities should I not hear back from Nintendo at all (e.g. unofficial, free digital version).

-Book costs: If the quality of China printing is good enough (has not yet arrived), it could mean significantly cheaper books and the possibility of a softcover version. It's easier to take new payments than try and adjust existing Kickstarter pledges.

-No risk: I will still pursue permission for the next 3 months as promised. If successful, the Kickstarter backers will be given first opportunity to get the book.

-Refunds: If unsuccessful in 3 months, I don't have to waste my time (especially) and money issuing refunds.

-Page lives on: The Kickstarter page will continue to exist and will allow me to post updates.

-Kickstarter is not a store: I was pretty naive when creating the project and in hindsight would have done things a bit differently. The last thing Kickstarter needs is another project that "failed to deliver to expectation."

Whilst it's unfortunate the project will continue outside of Kickstarter (as they have provided amazing publicity, marketing and opportunities while proving there is a market for the book), it has introduced a number of new people who may back other projects.

I will leave the Kickstarter running as long as possible to collect any last-minute backers then send a private post to collect your email addresses so I can contact you if/when the book becomes available. Keep an eye on the blog for constant updates.

Thanks to everyone who pledged as it was an amazing and rewarding experience to reach the funding goal. If I was allowed (i.e. not liable) to give you all a free digital copy, I absolutely would. This may change in the future!

Cheers, Daniel.
Click to expand...

Still hope, however slim.
 
R

RomanticHeroX

Member
Good on him for cancelling it. It really looks like something he's trying to do from a place of genuine passion for the game, but it must also be tempting enough to take the money and run.
 
D

djblackice

Member
New update:

http://pixelperfectbooks.wordpress.com/2013/03/07/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/


The Good

Thanks to the contributions of MTPO experts, Matt Turk and Sinister1, I’ve been updating the book approximately 2 hours per week
Edits have primarily focused on strategies and are almost complete (up to Super Macho Man)
There have been new strategies discovered for consistently faster times and higher scores, which have been added
These edits have added an extra layer of polish to the book
I was briefly contacted by the organisers of PAX Australia 2013 about the possibility of a Q&A session about my experience making the book. Currently waiting for a follow-up to go over the details.
The Bad

After continued attempts to contact Nintendo:
Emails to NOA and Goldie Marketing (licensed distributor)
Physically sent a copy of the book to NOA headquarters with a cover letter, which was returned with a generic message, phone number and reference
Followed up call to Nintendo, but the reference number did not work (and the call went nowhere)
Investigating personally giving Mike Tyson a copy of the book during his nationwide speaking tour (VIP ticket entitles a meet-and-greet)
Today I finally received an email response (names removed):
Thank you for your inquiry regarding the Punch Out book. We’re all very impressed by the amount of passion you have for the project.

Unfortunately, due to the complex rights and ownership issues involved with licensing the “Mike Tyson’s Punch Out” IP, we’re not able to consider an official license grant at this time. While we appreciate your enthusiasm and the demand from the fanbase, there are a number of insurmountable intellectual property hurdles that would prevent us from moving ahead with this project.

My apologies for the delay in responding to your inquiry. I wanted to ensure I thoroughly understood the issues surrounding your request, and it took some time for my own inquiries to reach the proper personnel within Nintendo.

Thank you again for your interest. I regret that I could not offer you a more affirmative response but do wish you all the best in your future endeavors.

With Kind Regards,

Nintendo of America Inc.
Merchandise Licensing

The Ugly

The response from Nintendo dashes any hope of an official release
I have responded asking about the possibility of either:
An unofficial release; or
Giving the book away for free (digitally)
If I can’t even give the book away for free without repercussion the book will most likely never see a public release.
This would be a shame, but the world moves on! I really enjoyed the journey of making the book and have started preliminary scouting for a second book (hint: arcade)…
Stay tuned for future updates.

Cheers, Daniel.

Update!

A very quick reply to my inquiry around unofficially publishing or giving it away for free.

I’m sorry that it took so long for someone to get back to you—we get hundreds of these kinds of inquiries a week and sometimes it takes a while for things to make their way to the correct person. I’m glad I can be responsive, if nothing else.

Regarding your follow-on inquiry: Unfortunately, the only answer I can give to you is to suggest you speak to an intellectual property attorney. Nintendo vigorously defends its intellectual property rights, so it’s important to consult a professional to ensure you don’t infringe. Since IP law is complex and confusing, it is best to explain your particular case to someone who specializes in these matters and get a professional opinion.

Again, I’m afraid I’m not being terribly helpful, and I’m very sorry for that. It is clear that a lot of care went into your project, so I wish I could be of more assistance. Whatever the outcome, I hope very much that it’s a positive one for you.

I’ve informally spoken to an IP lawyer in the past and they like to play it safe, which is bad news for a public release. Considering almost everything in the book was freely sourced from the web, if I’m infringing then a lot of people are infringing.

I will look to speak properly with an IP lawyer in the coming months. If anyone is or knows an IP lawyer and would like to volunteer their services, please let me know!

To be clear, I am only concerned with Nintendo infringements at this stage. If I can clear that hurdle I’ll tackle fan-created content, which will be much less of an issue as I am more than happy to remove/replace — new content is created everyday!
Click to expand...
 
O

Ocaso

Member
This is the first I've heard of the book, and though I'm not a lawyer, I honestly don't see how publishing this in an unofficial format would be in any way different from the myriad of unofficial NES strategy guides that cropped up in the 80s or, to give an example from a different industry, unofficial guides to Disney World. Maybe the cover art and format might need to be changed so as to more clearly be unofficial, but otherwise the use of images of the works they're chronicling would seem to fall under fair use and, provided he didn't plagiarize any of the actual text, I see no insurmountable hurdle with the content.

Edit: Scans of the manuals would obviously not be allowed and the layouts appear to rely too much on official artwork. There probably is a way to make a book like this without running foul of IP law but I'm not sure it's the book the authors were actually interested in creating.
 
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