Was there not any gameplay of this game? Have you gotten excited about any games you saw at E3 but haven't played?
Okay, what game DOES have tighter mechanics between the two games I mentioned?
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Puppeteer out Nintendo's Nintendo.
- Thread starter MercuryLS
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Was there not any gameplay of this game? Have you gotten excited about any games you saw at E3 but haven't played?
Okay, what game DOES have tighter mechanics between the two games I mentioned?
Riposte
Member
Yeah... that's a major problem with how people talk about videogames in general.
What I find weird is that people are putting Nintendo's reputation for fresh gimmicks above their reputation of having a history of solid design. It has always been more about the latter.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
It can be both floaty and stiff. I suppose what I mean is that you gain virtually no distance by jumping in this game because it looks like there is no momentum (and maybe that's just the demo), meaning it looks stiff. But you also stay in the air longer than probably necessary, so it also looks floaty. Looking at it again stiff is probably a better word overall than floaty, though.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Yeah, it's like they forgot that their games are like that.
I mean yeah, their showing with the Wii has been terrible because of Wii Fit and Wii Music, but outside of that the platformers they released there have been really tight.
DKCR pretty much controls like a SNES game. Rayman suffers from terrible jumping physics. Then there's also level design - at most it is much recommended not to give an "angled" look at platforms to make sure the platforms are easily defined, but DKCR gives an angled look but at the same time made the platforms easy to see. RO is less than that.
You gain distance by building momentum e.g. running like this. We've never seen the main character run/build momentum by himself. And I still haven't found merit in any complaints.
Davey Cakes
Member
I can't think of a single true cash-in, honestly. Maybe NSMB2? But, I didn't play it.
NSMB Wii and NSMBU aren't really cash-ins because, well, they're REALLY GOOD. It's obvious that a lot of care when into the stage designs and in making the controls just right. Just because these games aren't artistically revolutionary doesn't mean they're shit. NSMBU especially is the best 2D Mario since the 90's.
And literally NONE of Nintendo's other platformers have any hint of "cash-in."
I disagree with you completely. Played through both, Rayman felt tighter and like I was more in control. I guess it is subjective after all.
Did we change the word cash-in to the word bad and not tell me?
Carpe Libertatem
Member
How much of the game are you on the flamango? Much of the jumping shown with it is mostly the result of the balloons which - as far as I can tell - clearly boost you up.
You may not like solid jumping mechanics in platformers and are okay with baby jumps, but I do because that determines how the entire game plays. To each their own, I suppose.
TheRedSnifit
Member
It's implied, hence why "cash-in" is used as an insult.
Don't be fooled. "Originality" mostly means setting and themes which is code for graphics and production. Think about it like this, 2d Mario has had an incredible run of being the forefront in design tropes that have been carried across the industry. The chances of making a Mario-like game (Rayman Origins) and not stepping on ground Mario has already thread is highly unlikely (and the game didn't by the way). I don't see how Rayman is anymore creative than a New Mario Bros title when they both heavily draw from the house that Mario built. Its just that Rayman puts a new coat of paint on it.
Hazelhurst
Member
I forsee alot of perfect review scores for this.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
I sure as shit haven't put Nintendo in the ground off of a game I haven't played.
Nothing matters more in a jnr than how it controls. Nothing.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I'd say it's not a cash-in when it's expected to have one NSMB per system at least. Until they churned out more NSMB per system, then it's safe.
But I did give objective merits on the controls though. It's not something about "feels", which what I was getting. I mean, there are plenty of people in GAF who think "LBP platforming is fine" but from a technical stand point that's obviously not the case.
Davey Cakes
Member
That's what I took from it, sort of.
Cash-in implies a lack of investment and quality in trade for a quick cash return.
Even at their most derivative, certain Nintendo games (NSMB, which is what people usually think of while ignoring all of Nintendo's other output) are still high-quality labors of love and don't feel like they were made for a quick buck. NSMB2 may be the only exception but I can't say for sure since I never played it.
Releasing NSMBU and NSMB2 within like three months was not a good idea, regardless of their platforms.
That's true, I really think NSMB2 killed NSMBU's chances of becoming a good system seller for WiiU. But it doesn't change the fact that one game per system is hardly overkill, just think about it, the next NSMB game will happen on the 3DS' successor.
Davey Cakes
Member
I think pretty much everyone will agree with this.
Once we knew about NSMBU, NSMB2 was highly redundant.
But, NSMBU is wonderful and so was its Wii predecessor. Not revolutionary but just very solid and fun and well-designed. Also, in the case of U, just brimming with content.
Compare them, then. The initial jump in the demo I linked to is farther than those in the trailer. Who knows how much of the game is straight platforming.
Sure I like them. If I didn't, Puppeteer wouldn't be my thing. But personal attacks are always the go-to thing when your argument lacks basis.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Oh that's a given, and it shows what a waste NSMB2 is. It's still not a cash-in until they churned more per system though.
I honestly believe people see Mario as a single entity rather than having each sub-franchises.
ElementalMage
Banned
sorry but nintendo released like 10 platformers which were critically acclaimed this gen.....
You didn't post objective merits. You said Rayman's jump physics are terrible. How on earth is that objective? And about the level design, I don't see how one angle is easier to see than another:
And, in regards to your last point, LBP's platforming is not bad from a technical standpoint. You may not like the floaty jump physics, but the game was designed around that mechanic and the platforming was tuned to that. It was a design choice.
So it 'only' took you nearly 30 years to find a platformer which you think puts Nintendo to shame? Good job! You've earned your rest.
I like studios surprise us out of nowhere with original and interesting stuff, and I believe Puppeteer looks to be one of such games, but let's not get silly now. Nintendo's have raised the bar for platformers many times over. It's the reason why SMB3, Mario 64 (and to some extent the galaxy series) are so revered. Nintendo have very little to prove. Also, I don't think their goal is simply to be the most original/unique every time, but rather, to create something that looks/feels fun as heck to play... and their new Mario looks to be just that.
Seriously, had you not mentioned NES/SNES, I'd have figured you to be no older than 15. I understand you're excited, but damn! Control dat!
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Go look for that grassland stage for Rayman. And it's more to do with how floaty he is especially at the peak of his jump, even without using his propellers.
And it was a flawed design choice in that the focus was less about platforming and more about building a stage then testing them out.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
Flamingo isn't bad I guess (although the E3 trailer showed about 3 seconds worth while the demo was significantly longer, so I'm more inclined to draw my impressions from the demo), but I'm skeptical that it's a significant portion of the game.
Personal attacks? You mean that I called the jumps in this game "baby jumps"? Hardly personal, I'm just describing what I see - weak jumps with no distance, momentum, and height that only serve to reach extremely close platforms. If that's your thing, more power to you.
This always happens, every time a new good looking no Nintendo platformer comes out, there is a sector of people desperately trying to prove is better than anything Nintendo has done in recent years. It happened with LBP, Rayman, Super Meat Boy and now this. The true is that Nintendo has been behind on tech and their games dont look spectacular, but controls and level design are always better than competition.
The flamingo section is from a different demo, 20 ish minutes long. Who knows what else they have. There should also be a good deal of scissor based platforming too which should be an interesting divergence from traditional platforming.
You haven't seen that much if you haven't even taken a full look at their latest press demo.
Gavin also said that it's to get increasingly (but steadily) difficult throughout the game since he did make it to play with his son. So all of this judging seems really premature to me.whatsinaname
Member
I think it definitely is subjective. I loved Rayman Origins, and it is easily one of my favourite games from the last gen, but it felt imprecise at times. I am not sure how to articulate it well it but there were times where my character's death didn't feel like something in my control. I have been playing DKCR recently and every death feels like my mistake.
As for Puppeteer, the concepts sound very intriguing. Especially the whole head switching thing which could open up a whole boat load of gameplay possibilities. But I will not pass judgement till I try it for myself.
TheOhrenberger
Banned
my thoughts exactly. Also mario 3D land is fairly new and that's really, really good. And while 3D world looks very similar to 3D land I'm sure it will still be more interesting than most other platformers. Nintendo does wonders with simple ideas. A cat suit may not sound like a lot, but the devs on these games tend to make good use of every last gameplay mechanic.
Seriously. Those trailers are flashy but there's nothing in them that would lead me to believe it's actually a good platformer. This GIF here:
shows more interesting platforming mechanics than all of what I've seen of Puppeteer combined.
Super Meat Boy is an amazing platforming game at least.
Also, it pains me to see Bit.Trip.Runner(and 2) constantly ignored in these discussions, even though it's a run-for-your-life game, it's easily the best of its kind.
Napalm_Frank
Member
40$ is cheap considering it's supposed to be 12 hours long with tons of collectibles and secrets and whatnot. I'm sold on everything with this game but indeed the biggest question is the jumping physics.
This is the game Knack wishes it was.
ElementalMage
Banned
^ cat mario baby
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
it visually interests me far more than any nintendo game. But I'm not not sure it will beat them control wise. however, if i had no experience of either and you showed me both, asking which one I'd want to play more, I'd pick the puppeteer. I believe, based on looks, so would most children.
Hardcore nintendo fans? hah. Blood and stones man. Blood and Stones.
see what I mean? It's not even worth attempting to trying to convince these people.
Hardcore nintendo fans? hah. Blood and stones man. Blood and Stones.
Seriously. Those trailers are flashy but there's nothing in them that would lead me to believe it's actually a good platformer. This GIF here:
shows more interesting platforming mechanics than all of what I've seen of Puppeteer combined.
see what I mean? It's not even worth attempting to trying to convince these people.
Seriously. Those trailers are flashy but there's nothing in them that would lead me to believe it's actually a good platformer. This GIF here:
shows more interesting platforming mechanics than all of what I've seen of Puppeteer combined.
If you think that gif of running up a wall is interesting you should play Mirrors Edge
Rodney McKay
Member
You know what? Sometimes a "new coat of paint" can do WONDERS to liven up a game. There is nothing wrong with wanting a fresh graphical take on a game, especially if the the game's look is getting tired and generic (NSMB series), no matter how strong the core mechanics are (if they've been repeated over and over and over again).
If I've been living in the same house for 20-30 years giving it some fresh paint could really make a change. Sure the house is still the same structurally, but maybe if I get some new furniture in there (ORIGINAL enemy types), paint and design each room to a brand new style (freshen up music and art direction), and maybe knock out a wall or two (add some new game mechanics to the mix) you can really start to enjoy living in this house like it was brand new!
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
Seriously. Those trailers are flashy but there's nothing in them that would lead me to believe it's actually a good platformer. This GIF here:
shows more interesting platforming mechanics than all of what I've seen of Puppeteer combined.
Wall climbing
mind blowing new mechanic
TheOhrenberger
Banned
lol dude you can't make a thread saying "x game out nintendo's nintendo" and then a few posts later say "oh no I only mean that it's better than that one mario game."
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