Support NeoGAF

[Leonidas]

And how has that worked out for them? The compute isn't there yet for it to be anything beyond tech demoing.

That remains to be seen.
No one knows how it's going to turn out but the fact is Nvidia and next-gen consoles have hardware ray tracing, and 2019 Navi doesn't. RX 5700 series is already obsolete in that sense.

Might as well disable RT on 2070S and below, you aren't getting any decent performance with it on

That's speculation based on few examples.

 

[CyberPanda]

Next year should be very interesting in graphics tech. Especially with Intel Xe joining the party.

 

[Denton]

Might as well disable RT on 2070S and below, you aren't getting any decent performance with it on
Whats the point outside of a cool tech demo/showcase

Do you think consoles will have stronger gpus than 2070S? I doubt it, and yet they will have HW RT support.

Maybe, just maybe RT will be perfectly doable in this perf range.

 

[SonGoku]

Do you think consoles will have stronger gpus than 2070S? I doubt it, and yet they will have HW RT support.

Maybe, just maybe RT will be perfectly doable in this perf range.

Maybe slightly better (expect RTX2080 levels)
Consoles have the benefit of devs targeting a fixed spec so devs will use RT sparingly where it makes sense so the performance hit wont be as notorious, an APU also seems to have inherit advantages for RT because of the low latency communication between CPU/GPU.

AMD RT patent is different from nvdias, which is why i have my doubts console optimizations will apply to low/mid tier RT enabled cards currently out.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

This is a flatout poorly thought out post because the 2070 Super is $50 more expensive, also the 5700 XT is not the fastest 5700, there's the 5700 XT 50th which has yet to be benched.

You're also not considering the power differences, ironically AMD's cards seem to be more power efficient than Nvidia's this time around. Also no one gives two shits about Ray Tracing outside of 2080 Ti ownership, plainly put the other cards just can't handle it and even the 2080 Ti barely can.

In terms of DLSS AMD has Radeon Image Sharpening so that's also a bunk point, it's the same thing.

I'm looking forward to the TechPowerUp and other Nvidia shill-site reviews where power draw suddenly isn't so important because AMD shockingly has the lead there.

On that review it was cringey as fuck. W1zzard (main TPU reviewer) gave a review summary where there were like 10 positives and only 2 trivial negatives for the 2070 Super. Like it's one of the best products released for years!

 

[Larogue]

As much as I try to support AMD. Their offering is disappointingly underwhelming.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

I'm looking forward to the TechPowerUp and other Nvidia shill-site reviews where power draw suddenly isn't so important because AMD shockingly has the lead there.

On that review it was cringey as fuck. W1zzard (main TPU reviewer) gave a review summary where there were like 10 positives and only 2 trivial negatives for the 2070 Super. Like it's one of the best products released for years!

The only site I trust and have since I can't even remember when is Guru3D.

 

[Screamer-RSA]

Oh look, just a little bit of competition and nVidia releases faster cards for the same price. People bought RTX, could barely RT and now they feel burned lol.

Well done AMD, hopefully their card prices drop further down the line. Imagine paying $50-100 more for 5 fps and RTX demos.

 

[Leonidas]

Oh look, just a little bit of competition and AMD decides they need to cut prices before launch.



Well done NVidia Super. AMD knows they can no longer rip off gamers as much as they were hoping.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Published by "accident"

Nothing to see here, though. Nvidia keeps winning by doing hardly anything. SUPER is just to crush AMD, that's why it's such a relatively small refresh over original Turing.

 

[llien]

So, $379 5700 by AMD matches "$400 performance king" by nVidia, did I read it right?


And power consumption beats nVidia:

drop that shit down 50 bucks AMD... now!

Please don't, AMD.

But make attractive discounts "all AMD" bundles with Ryzen 3xxx.

 

[R600]

Yea AMD is definitely the one that has been ripping of gamers with their GPUs and CPUs...Jesus.

 

[Leonidas]

Yea AMD is definitely the one that has been ripping of gamers with their GPUs and CPUs...Jesus.

AMD fanboys should thank Nvidia for Super. If it wasn't for Super AMD fanboys would have to pay crazy prices for Navi, now it is a little less overpriced.

 

[SlashBringingHasher]

their CPUs have been good and their next cpus will beat Intel. their GPUs on the other hand. eh, thats a diff story. I'd wait for next year to see their next gen GPUs. these ones arent great.

 

[Ovek]

Oh look, just a little bit of competition and AMD decides they need to cut prices before launch.



Well done NVidia Super. AMD knows they can no longer rip off gamers as much as they were hoping.

Looks like AMD are reducing the cost of the 5700XT by $50 and the standard 5700 by $25 to round it down to $349.

 

[Xyphie]

$349 would certainly be a lot better for the 5700 and a good deal. Hopefully those are actual prices you can buy the cards at and AMD isn't pulling another $199 RX 480 or $399 Vega 56/$499 Vega 64 shenanigans.

 

[sircaw]

That performance at those prices, surely that's excellent for the consumer.
I did not expect Navi to be that great to be honest but they seem really, really solid.

 

[Tesseract]

stay frosty amd, you'll get there some day

lmao

 

[Evilms]

Seriously,

RX 5700 XT 50th Anniversary: $499 449
RX 5700 XT: $449 399
RX 5700: $379 349


That's what I told you yesterday, and this price reduction before the launch only confirms it and proves me right.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Published by "accident"

Nothing to see here, though. Nvidia keeps winning by doing hardly anything. SUPER is just to crush AMD, that's why it's such a relatively small refresh over original Turing.

They're old GPUs being sold at a premium. The '2070 Super' is literally a 2080 with shader count lowered and not based on 2070's TU106. Same PCB, same cooler. Begs the question of why Turing werent released at these prices to begin with. But those Nvidia shareholders want record profits each quarter.

 

[llien]

AMD fanboys would have to pay crazy prices

.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Seriously,

RX 5700 XT 50th Anniversary: $499 449
RX 5700 XT: $449 399
RX 5700: $379 349


That's what I told you yesterday, and this price reduction before the launch only confirms it and proves me right.

At those prices Navi is the better buy for sure. Dont listen to the usual trying to paint Navi as an unthinkable choice, which is absurd. Look at the leaked benches, 5700XT is right there with the overpriced and power hungry 2070 Supes.

 

[sircaw]

Seriously,

RX 5700 XT 50th Anniversary: $499 449
RX 5700 XT: $449 399
RX 5700: $379 349


That's what I told you yesterday, and this price reduction before the launch only confirms it and proves me right.

What resolution are these cards meant to be targeting, That looks like its 1080p. I am not an expert on these things but aren't these cards meant to be mid range cards.

Besides the Doom Demo at 2 k the 5700 seems to beating the 1660 ti by a lot.
Shadow of the Tomb raider is 14 frames better on the 5700.
Farcry 5 at 2k is 26 fps better on the 5700.

I think its fair to say when they also get better coolers and drivers mature that's going to increase a fair good amount.
I am trying to run my head around what people are saying, are you saying these awful cards cos that's not what i am seeing in those benchmarks, could you clarify please.

 

[Tesseract]

this thread is a dream come true, i cannot wait to savor the hater flavor of the amd cult train

 

[R600]

AMD fanboys should thank Nvidia for Super. If it wasn't for Super AMD fanboys would have to pay crazy prices for Navi, now it is a little less overpriced.

[="Tesseract, post: 254779366, member: 47470"]
this thread is a dream come true, i cannot wait to savor the hater flavor of the amd cult train
[/QUOTEd

Seriously,

RX 5700 XT 50th Anniversary: $499 449
RX 5700 XT: $449 399
RX 5700: $379 349


That's what I told you yesterday, and this price reduction before the launch only confirms it and proves me right.

I mean you are using absolute worst case scenario in comparing the two.

Another video with more games points at 10% advantage or XT over 2070 (8% without Metro), and 8% deficit over 2070S (4% without Metro).

So, its far from bad as you want to paint it out. Its a good card for good (not great price).

I know you guys would like AMD cards to release with better perf, better TDP and 50% of Nvidia price so that you can buy Nvidia again when they lower their prices (as was the case with HD48XX series).

 

[Ascend]

AMD has a lot of leeway to lower prices. 7nm is supposedly slightly cheaper than 16nm now, according to TSMC, which means that with their 255 mm2 chips, they still can drop a lot and make profit.

 

[llien]

Explanation on DX12/Vulkan fluke:

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

Maybe slightly better (expect RTX2080 levels)
Consoles have the benefit of devs targeting a fixed spec so devs will use RT sparingly where it makes sense so the performance hit wont be as notorious, an APU also seems to have inherit advantages for RT because of the low latency communication between CPU/GPU.

AMD RT patent is different from nvdias, which is why i have my doubts console optimizations will apply to low/mid tier RT enabled cards currently out.

They aren't going to be close to 2080 levels.

 

[thelastword]

Yea AMD is definitely the one that has been ripping of gamers with their GPUs and CPUs...Jesus.

Well everytime AMD has good value in the market Nvidia fans begin to spread FUD, they keep trying to reiterate every negative and false campaign against AMD...…"Drivers", "AMD never had the most powerful card", "Powerdraw is an issue, my current bill Ahhhhh" …….

The funny thing is, many of the folk who are the biggest proponents of NV here, did not buy the overpriced Turing cards they are selling. Instead they fight this senseless war online filled with lies, speaking of RTX with the same level of enthusiasm they spoke of DLSS, yet, we all know how that turned out and how the market received those features on a overpriced GPU product line. I guess these guys are seeing the writing on the wall.....

Looks like AMD are reducing the cost of the 5700XT by $50 and the standard 5700 by $25 to round it down to $349.

And here it is, I always told folk that AMD has much more wiggle room in the pricing department......They baited Nvidia is rushing out a Super lineup where regular RTX cards should have been at that price or even cheaper in the first place...

I told folk that AMD would play Nvidia like a puppet on a string...….NV's super is just not powerful enough for the move they did, 5700 XT on 40 CU's is still up there with 2070 Super, it's a smaller die, cheaper to produce and will get even cheaper in a minute, So AMD can go low and even lower and continue to play that price reduction game, they know 5700 has similar performance and lower power draw...…AMD can do this all day, can Nvidia? who is obviously desperate, because Turing "aint" selling.......


Now mark my words, when AMD releases 5800 and 5900 on 350-400mm2, watch Nvidia decrease the price of 2080ti which NV fans said was more than worth it, due to (RTX and DLSS, I keed you not), watch NV drop the price of the 2080ti to $600.......I think about now, Turing buyers are feeling lots of remorse, (So they will just rush to go buy more Turing Super cards) ….because that's what they do, they just have money to burn......They will never get the Memo...…


Yet, I keep hearing AMD is a nonfactor in the market. NV can do what they want...........Well not anymore.......Guess what, success breeds success....Ryzen is going to wallop Intel, Navi looks pretty solid, that mindshare is now going AMD's way.......They can bundle Ryzen and Navi and give good deals there, they have the performance, the lower prices, the lower powerdraw, they're basically hitting all the high points.......Nvidia is now in panic mode due to low Turing sales, they sense the tides turning, I would not want to be reporting to Jensen Huang right now, should be cursing his underlings like a sailor right about now.....

Didn't the rumors say that Navi would offer GTX 1080 performance for $250-300~, well 5700 fits that mold now innit? Nvidia's setting the price high, all AMD has to do is to keep themselves a notch above them for the price to perf value......

People forget that AMD is offering both CPU and GPU solutions, they need the cash, we had no problem giving Nvidia exorbitant amounts for 2080, 2080ti, 2070, when the people pushing the envelope in trying to give us good products at good prices, we try to shut them down........AMD needs the money and they will get it from their new gen Ryzen, Navi is a good start for a new architecture, really good if I'm honest, so they have the foundation to compete at the high end.......The money they get from Ryzen and Navi will make them make RDNA2 even better...…People want to give Nvidia $700 for a 2080, $1200 for a 2080ti, but cry foul when they have to give AMD $350 for a 5700, it's shameful really......

 

[LordOfChaos]

drop that shit down 50 bucks AMD... now!

Yarp

AMD to lower the price of Radeon RX 5700 series ahead of launch - VideoCardz.com

We have just received a word from two sources that AMD will lower the price of Radeon RX 5700 series ahead of the launch. AMD RX 5700 to be cheaper For the record, we still don’t know the exact new pricing for RX 5700 series. Even we did, it would require a good confirmation, as […]

videocardz.com

 

[PaNaMa]

My question is: How well do the 5700XT cards overclock? A small OC and it's right there, ya know?

 

[llien]

My question is: How well do the 5700XT cards overclock? A small OC and it's right there, ya know?

On one hand power consumption is formidable so there should be quite a bit of a headroom.
On the other, it's a new microarch, so who knows.

 

[LordOfChaos]

If the initial prices were jebait for Nvidia all along, LOL

 

[sircaw]

If the initial prices were bait for Nvidia all along, LOL

You have to applaud AMD for that, that sure is a line and sinker moment.

 

[CJY]

I really don't understand why AMD don't release some enthusiast aspirational cards at $1000+ in limited quantities. I believe it's well within their ability to do so and while it wouldn't be so worth it from financial perspective, it would be a good thing to do from a PR one.

 

[LordOfChaos]

I really don't understand why AMD don't release some enthusiast aspirational cards at $1000+ in limited quantities. I believe it's well within their ability to do so and while it wouldn't be so worth it from financial perspective, it would be a good thing to do from a PR one.

I mean, Frontier Edition didn't go particularly great. If they don't have the mix of transistor budget and architecture to make a part worthy of 1000 dollars it could end up being a PR backfire.

 

[Ascend]

People want to give Nvidia $700 for a 2080, $1200 for a 2080ti, but cry foul when they have to give AMD $350 for a 5700, it's shameful really......

 

[CJY]

I mean, Frontier Edition didn't go particularly great. If they don't have the mix of transistor budget and architecture to make a part worthy of 1000 dollars it could end up being a PR backfire.

Yes, sure, it's all predicated on making a worthy product in terms of what you mentioned plus the real world performance needs to be there. Easier said than done of course... but what AMD's strategy with Navi's pricing and positioning is now, and in the long term is still unclear to me.

 

[thelastword]

Seriously,

RX 5700 XT 50th Anniversary: $499 449
RX 5700 XT: $449 399
RX 5700: $379 349


That's what I told you yesterday, and this price reduction before the launch only confirms it and proves me right.

Receipts, what game is that? Is it some Fortnite like Joint? Or a game laced with Nvidia's QUOTE and QUOTE "features".....I guess you like bringing up the worse case scenarios and ignore the rest of the benches where 5700 beats the 2060S...…..

It's like your Final Fantasy benches as proof that Super would wallop the 5700 series, where a 1660 Ti beats a Radeon 7, that tells you all you need to know about gameworks in that title...….Yet even in that cherry picked screen you just posted, I willd take the 5700 over the 1660 ti in that game, look at the minimums on the 5700, it's higher and over 100, which means smoother performance on AMD's card......And that's an AIB Asus 1660ti OC'd vs a regular 5700 with a blower cooler and early drivers......In a game which favors Nvidia, I'm thinking......

My question is: How well do the 5700XT cards overclock? A small OC and it's right there, ya know?

Well the Anniversary is already OC'd a bit with 10 more watts added over XT...…..What you need to ask is how well these cards will undervolt…...With a good undervolting you might be able to OC even more and push the XT pass 2000Mhz, whilst not pushing powerdraw too much. I'm thinking, that should be a good boost, even more so with better coolers...…..For some reason, I think waterblocks will make a surge on AMD GPU's this generation......

If the initial prices were jebait for Nvidia all along, LOL

Well I called it, I realize this was what AMD was doing all along, Nvidia is in panic mode......Yet the more I listen and hear about Herkelman, the more I like this guy....The fact that he knows the term "jebaited" means this man is a real gamer, he loves SFV and follows the scene, which I do as well...….I mean, who knows how to bait a player more than Jebailey...

Yes, sure, it's all predicated on making a worthy product in terms of what you mentioned plus the real world performance needs to be there. Easier said than done of course... but what AMD's strategy with Navi's pricing and positioning is now, and in the long term is still unclear to me.

1.) Lead the mid range with the best perf per dollar...….5700 XT+ Anniversary vs 2700 Super and 2700...…...5700 vs 2060 Super and 2060...……..They will keep pricing these cards one step ahead of Nvidia's cards...

2.) Launch the 5600 line which will beat the 1660 ti, 1660, 1650......A 5500XT at 75 watts will offer RX 580 performance in the $149 range...If 1650 wasn't dead, it's "deader".....

3.) Late this year or early next year, launch the 5800 and 5900 line, bigger dies, higher CU count......This line will offer performance that beats the 2080 Super and 2080ti at ($500-600). Nvidia will have no choice but to lower the price of the 2080ti and 2080 Super.....

Remember, the plan is to equal or better performance at a lower price than Nvidia, that's the only way this industry will be sane again...AMD will force Nvidia's hand to lower their prices across the board, from low end to high end. Nvidia's profit will plummet, Lots of folk would rather go all AMD since they will bundle Ryzen 3000 + Navi for marketshare, and these products will have great performance....... AMD will have the mindshare and momentum, since everyone is going AMD now in the business world etc...As for Navi, AMD will always be ahead in price to perf with Navi against Turing...….So you ask, will people rush to buy RTX 2080 TI at $600? No, why would you when AMD will offer a better product with lower powerdraw at a cheaper price with good performance and you can also get the best CPU's on AMD too.....People will transition to an all AMD Rig, most will.


4.) In late 2020 or in early 2021 when consoles have RT and RT will be in the purview of all developers...AMD will launch Infinity Fabric GPU's with Raytracing at 5nm -3nm...…..(2-4 GPU cores), that is when the hardware will be enough to run raytracing without having to play at 1080p and much lower framerates.....

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Oh look, just a little bit of competition and AMD decides they need to cut prices before launch.



Well done NVidia Super. AMD knows they can no longer rip off gamers as much as they were hoping.

I do actually agree with you here. Nvidia charging high prices gave AMD this false impression that they can charge higher prices.

 

[SonGoku]

They aren't going to be close to 2080 levels.

They might even surpass it depending on how things play out
But let's not derail the tread, if you are interested head over to next gen ot to discuss

 

[Screamer-RSA]

The nVidia groupies on here don't seem to want competition. They want nVidia to continue to do what they want and raise prices relative to the previous gen., because "Woe is me the die size is soooo big, and look you can run RT demos!"

Can't wait for the crocodile tears when a 3070 is $699 because its as fast as a 2080.

 

[thelastword]

I do actually agree with you here. Nvidia charging high prices gave AMD this false impression that they can charge higher prices.

What false impression? AMD just baited Nvidia in lowering prices for all, whilst they lower theirs even further...It's their strategy to lower prices overall, so who is benefitting from that? It's gamers/consumers...….You think if AMD wasn't offering a good and competitive product in Navi that Nvidia would ever lower their prices? They are now offering GTX 2080/1080ti performance for $500, when before they asked for $700, because they knew NV fannmaidens would defend these high prices (not you obviously)……..

At least I can respect you, as you put your money where your mouth is and bought what you wanted, the 2080ti, but most of these guys here saying AMD cards are not cheap or powerful enough are not even going to buy the 2060S and 2070S at these cheaper prices as the NV fans they tout themselves to be, $500 and 400 is still too high for them.....Last I heard (Leonidas was on a RX 580), maybe he wants to upgrade to Vega 56 or even better 5700, 2060S levels, but don't have the funding for it, so he is knawing and fighting online.....

The truth is, I'd rather give AMD my money, persons who want to give NV their money, I have no qualms, but don't assume that AMD has to give consumers similar performance to Nvidia at chump change, whilst people justify Nvidia's prices all day long.....At least AMD is trying to push the envelope on features (brand new arch, Fidelity FX, Anti Lag, Radeon Chill etc, many non proprietary features that's moving the industry forward), whilst all NV is trying to do is to charge $1200 for a $400 BOM on the 2080ti, ream their consumers sans Vaseline whilst said consumers ask to bleed some more......They blame AMD for the reaming they're taking......

Yet, they must be greatful to AMD, because had it not been for AMD...…..2080FE would still be at $800 and 2070FE at $600...

The nVidia groupies on here don't seem to want competition. They want nVidia to continue to do what they want and raise prices relative to the previous gen., because "Woe is me the die size is soooo big, and look you can run RT demos!"

Can't wait for the crocodile tears when a 3070 is $699 because its as fast as a 2080.

Yet the lot of them just talk online, they don't buy these cards, it's just a debate, but the GPU and CPU landscape is changing and they're still unawares, still blinded...….Here were they talking about RTX and DLSS for the longest while, Tom's hardware wrote a fellatio piece on RTX, (just Buy it).......Gamers aren't blind, their eyes are open now, people didn't listen to these guys, they're not buying Turing, but some folk want to give you a false impression that 5700 has no chance in the market and that NV can't be touched, the lie detector proved, (that was a lie)....It's the same way they tried to impress people that Navi was having many problems, it's on the same GCN, powerdraw will be through the roof, it won't compete with Super...Just FUD at the highest order.....They sense "the fall of an empire"...Panic ensues....

 

[DemonCleaner]

drop that shit down 50 bucks AMD... now!

Yarp

AMD to lower the price of Radeon RX 5700 series ahead of launch - VideoCardz.com

We have just received a word from two sources that AMD will lower the price of Radeon RX 5700 series ahead of the launch. AMD RX 5700 to be cheaper For the record, we still don’t know the exact new pricing for RX 5700 series. Even we did, it would require a good confirmation, as […]

videocardz.com

ok, since AMD is finally listening to me:

don't hold back your stuff AMD and release the 64CU 5800XT this september!

 

[Vasto]

Well played AMD.

 

[PhoenixTank]

Oh look, just a little bit of competition and AMD decides they need to cut prices before launch.



Well done NVidia Super. AMD knows they can no longer rip off gamers as much as they were hoping.

I don't disagree but this does goes both ways, y'know?: Well done Navi for getting Nvidia to release better midrange RTX cards, too. Competition

 

[CrustyBritches]

What choice do they have, a $399 2060S oc is right on the 5700XT's ass and everybody is shitting on the inclusion of the blower fan.

Shades of RX 480 where all they had at launch was the reference blower model and Nvidia dropped a wave of $250 AIB GTX 1060s on top of them to spoil the party.

Still waiting for Sapphire AiB, or even PowerColor. I have a good case and don't want a crap blower.

 

[R600]

What choice do they have, a $399 2060S oc is right on the 5700XT's ass and everybody is shitting on the inclusion of the blower fan.

Shades of RX 480 where all they had at launch was the reference blower model and Nvidia dropped a wave of $250 AIB GTX 1060s on top of them to spoil the party.

Still waiting for Sapphire AiB, or even PowerColor. I have a good case and don't want a crap blower.

Wouldnt say that, as 5700 looks to be very close to 2060S for 329$.

We'll see but it seems lile AMD found alot of perf/watt with new arch. Onyl reason they where no where in comparison to Nvidia is because they where broke, and they put all their money into Ryzen.

 

[Pimpbaa]

Do people really buy nvidia or amd branded cards? I always waited for board partners to make a card with much better coolers. Plus sometimes they make much better boards too compared to the reference designs. Nvidia upped their game a bit with their recent cards, but they were making really shit coolers for a long time too. If i was getting any card right now (from either amd or nvidia), it would be something with a 3 fan design.

 

[ethomaz]

The nVidia groupies on here don't seem to want competition. They want nVidia to continue to do what they want and raise prices relative to the previous gen., because "Woe is me the die size is soooo big, and look you can run RT demos!"

Can't wait for the crocodile tears when a 3070 is $699 because its as fast as a 2080.

Sure... but where is the competition? The fact AMD is making consecutive drops in prices for a card that did not even launched yet just shows they can't compete with that cards.

Do people really buy nvidia or amd branded cards? I always waited for board partners to make a card with much better coolers. Plus sometimes they make much better boards too compared to the reference designs. Nvidia upped their game a bit with their recent cards, but they were making really shit coolers for a long time too. If i was getting any card right now (from either amd or nvidia), it would be something with a 3 fan design.

Depends.... FE > AIB... so for nVidia I will choose their own branded cards.