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Rain World |OT| Concrete Jungle
- Thread starter More_Badass
- Start date
More_Badass
Member
Here's a really good in-depth interview from last year. Talks about the game's origins (early code was written in Seoul and Ghana), how it evolved, the challenges of making it. Plus you get a good sense of the devs and their attitudes/personality
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpGb42-6svI#t=2m01s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpGb42-6svI#t=2m01s
LurkerPrime
Member
eyeball_kid
Member
Read the RPS review and the dev reactions. Unfairness is not something I worry about in a game with a dynamic and complex AI ecosystem. But imprecise controls is. And while I'm glad the dev is willing to look into improving the controls "once we know what to look for", I find it odd that they aren't already aware of them if they are as sloshy as the reviewer makes them sound.
I've been waiting on this game for years and have it paid off. I'm really excited but then again, I hate brutal/hard but fair games. So it can end up being a game I really love or one I totally despair.
Also I wish I hadn't seen that gif with the machine gun on the first page. All those gifs are a bad idea. Would have rather discovered that for myself.
Nice OP by the way.
Also I wish I hadn't seen that gif with the machine gun on the first page. All those gifs are a bad idea. Would have rather discovered that for myself.
Nice OP by the way.
lol don't worry, the spoiler tags say it's an april fools joke
I have some complaints about the controls/physics too but that guy is exaggerating quite a lot
Antilurker77
Member
I'm wondering if maybe the joystick controls just aren't up to snuff. Maybe getting the precision you need is easier with arrow keys / dpad. Are most of the reviewers playing with a gamepad?
So you're saying he's wrong about the way you hold/throw objects in regards to both controls and priority? Because that sounds like a huge pain.I have some complaints about the controls/physics too but that guy is exaggerating quite a lot
ChosenPredator
Banned
same the amount of work they put into the AI is really an inspiring thing
More_Badass
Member
A little insight
In this post, "I" means from the perspective of a creature
The main tracker in a RW creature's AI is simply called the Tracker. This one basically keeps track of what creatures I know of, and where I think they might currently be (a notion that might be correct if I'm currently looking at them, and various degrees of incorrect if it was a while since I saw them). Each creature I know of has a representation in the Tracker, and this is sort of the UR representation for that creature, other modules refer to this one when thinking about a creature.
Other trackers such as PreyTracker and ThreatTracker has a reference to the creature representation in the Tracker, as well as some other module-specific data regarding that creature, such as how yummy it looks or whatever might be relevant.
The relationship tracker keeps goes through the representations in the Tracker, asks the AI what relationship it currently has to the creature in question, and if necessary moves stuff around to where they're supposed to be. For example, if I am only hunting the slugcat within a specific area, but the slugcat just exited that area, the slugcat representation needs to move from my PreyTracker to some other module.
This stuff is all pretty much just logistics. The cool stuff is an "internal state" for each tracked creature that is kept inside the RelationshipTracker. An internal state is a mini data structure which keeps track of some relevant stuff. Let's make a simple example: I'm a cicada - I want to cause a slugcat trouble. Unless the slugcat is holding a spear, in which case I want to get away.
So the slugcat is on the ground, no spear, and its representation in my cicada head is comfortably within my AgressionTracker. Now the slugcat runs over and picks up the spear. Now the thing is that we're doing this thing where RW creature don't know what they can't know. So say that the spear and the slugcat are out of my sight as the weapon is equipped. Every frame I (the cicada) ask my RelationshipTracker what relationship I have to the slugcat. The RelationshipTracker can't access the data about whether or not the slugcat is holding a spear directly, it has to go ask the internal state representing the slugcat. The internal state has a bool which represents the slugcat holding a spear or not.
woops I meant to say 60fps on PS4, any idea?
why is it so hard to find an answer to this on Google x.x
More_Badass
Member
Crab Milk Mickey
Member
Very curious to see how much of these review complaints are legitimate - like how Rain World is allegedly "impossibly unfair" - and how much of them are the usual press suspects kneejerk bellyaching (in typical fashion) about anything remotely difficult, unorthodox or non-explanatory for the umpteenth time.
Nomadic Sparks
Banned
Gonna be hard choice between this or Turok 2 D:
Chance Hale
Member
It's out on steam.
Pestilence11
Member
Apparently it's mostly 60 on PS4. I saw More_Badass post it, but it must've been in the other thread.
I think part of it is your dedication to spreading info (in a genuinely non-biased manner, for the record) and your passion towards the game. I know you mentioned in an indie thread that this KS and journey was what first got you into indie gaming, and I honestly would not have bought two copies of this (one for Steam and one for PS4) without the info you provided.
It's people's opinions, they're all legitimate lol.
Not sure if Turok 2 still has the 43.75% off for owners of the first game, but if you like Turok 2, this may be the best time to pick it up.
More_Badass
Member
Huh, went to a different second region than most streams seem to go
Most streamers seem to head up to Industrial, I headed down and found the entrance to Drainage System
The Illiterati
Member
My first complaints after a half hour are thus:
1)I don't know the mechanics of jumping and hanging off poles. Sometimes it seems to work, sometimes not. I can't tell if I have to hit a button to grab on or not.
2) Clarity of graphics versus functionality is at war here. what's that on the ground? A rock? A brick? A bat? Grass? There's tiny black objects mixed in with the floor everywhere. I don't understand why the colors have to be the exact same.
1)I don't know the mechanics of jumping and hanging off poles. Sometimes it seems to work, sometimes not. I can't tell if I have to hit a button to grab on or not.
2) Clarity of graphics versus functionality is at war here. what's that on the ground? A rock? A brick? A bat? Grass? There's tiny black objects mixed in with the floor everywhere. I don't understand why the colors have to be the exact same.
More_Badass
Member
Do you mean while falling towards a pipe? Hold up to grab on
Should I post some moveset tips? Some might not be apparent if you dont already know about them
That'd be great, struggling a tiny bit with controls
Chance Hale
Member
Area is hard and losing my
rank
Edit: And now back to square one.......what a system
More_Badass
Member
You're meant to go up, really. The game guides you that way. This other particular area is harder, and you skip some tutorial tips. Dont go that way if you're new to the game
That's the major point of contention listed in most of the reviews - the checkpoint system is at odds with the rest of the game's design.
It's not apparent because nothing in the game tells you to do that ...
I don't mind hard games, but I'm just not sure about this one. The controls just don't feel precise in any manner on the PS4. And, the fact that a single mistake can get you killed before you can even get a handle on the controls on top of the fact that you have no time to figure them out because you're constantly pushed forward by the rain mechanic. I'm just not really feeling it. I'll give it another chance tomorrow, but I had a lot more fun with Snake Pass, even though I died just as much trying to get those darn coins lol
Maybe I'm just too tired and the game was too taxing for my state of mind ... Like I said, I'm giving it another chance when I wake up.
The Illiterati
Member
I would have absolutely never figured that out.
Net_Wrecker
Member
I think the point of the checkpoints/rank system isn't so much to act as a means of gating the player (though they do), but to really put the focus on acquiring knowledge, making smart decisions, and keeping the intensity high because every "run" counts. I'm still pretty early, but already I've gotten into a rhythm of making a note of hunting grounds where bats tend to hang out, and deciding right away whether or not that "day" will for forward progress, or used to get a sense of direction and gather enough food to go back and rest before trying again. These aren't just checkpoints, they're a sort of temporary home you squat in while venturing out a little more every run before finally leaving it behind. Sometimes you just have to bank your progress and return to your hole instead of pushing blindly with <25% of the day left, risking everything. Once you know where you're going, the subsequent runs are much faster.
Also, I don't think the rain is necessarily pushing you forward, it's just pushing you to move quickly, whatever you decide to do..
____
That feel when asshole predators are blocking your only path forward and you have to make risky moves x_x
Also, I don't think the rain is necessarily pushing you forward, it's just pushing you to move quickly, whatever you decide to do..
____
That feel when asshole predators are blocking your only path forward and you have to make risky moves x_x
B-B-Bomba!
Member
Tonight is going to be Rain World night.
I'm not put off by the negatives highlighted so far. As others have said, I'm in for the AI and the believability (verisimilitude?) of the experience.
I'm still not done with Horizon but I think actually the two will go very well together. And also the reason I'm still not done with Horizon is the same reason I think I'll get on very well with RW, which is that I'm taking my sweet time and soaking up as much as possible of the simulation that that game offers of 'being there'.
Personally that's such a major part of what attracts me to games, I'm realising. With Horizon I'm neither grinding out sidequests nor racing through the plot. I'm playing as Aloy, in that world, as realistically as I know how. And the open world of that game offers so much opportunity for genuinely emergent experiences. Even though the next main quest is an important objective - well so is getting past those Rocbreakers in one piece.
Anyway, Christ, enough about a completely different game!
The point was I think this approach will get the best out of Rain World. Also that I think the two will complement each other very well - prey simulator and Huntress simulator - each as a palette cleanser for the other.
I'm not put off by the negatives highlighted so far. As others have said, I'm in for the AI and the believability (verisimilitude?) of the experience.
I'm still not done with Horizon but I think actually the two will go very well together. And also the reason I'm still not done with Horizon is the same reason I think I'll get on very well with RW, which is that I'm taking my sweet time and soaking up as much as possible of the simulation that that game offers of 'being there'.
Personally that's such a major part of what attracts me to games, I'm realising. With Horizon I'm neither grinding out sidequests nor racing through the plot. I'm playing as Aloy, in that world, as realistically as I know how. And the open world of that game offers so much opportunity for genuinely emergent experiences. Even though the next main quest is an important objective - well so is getting past those Rocbreakers in one piece.
Anyway, Christ, enough about a completely different game!
The point was I think this approach will get the best out of Rain World. Also that I think the two will complement each other very well - prey simulator and Huntress simulator - each as a palette cleanser for the other.
Stopping by to say I'm really digging this so far. Though the difficulty hasn't ramped up yet. Trying my best to get an idea of what is around. Going to have to call it soon though. School is getting in the way.
Edit: Couldn't help but play a bit more. Decided to try and find the next shelter and succeeded thanks to some of the observers pointing me in the general direction of the next one. Got to it just as the rain started to fall. Haven't died yet though I had a couple of closeish calls. Don't know if it's my playstyle, luck, or a bit of both but this really doesn't seem too difficult so far. I'm hoping I'll eat those words soon.
Edit: Couldn't help but play a bit more. Decided to try and find the next shelter and succeeded thanks to some of the observers pointing me in the general direction of the next one. Got to it just as the rain started to fall. Haven't died yet though I had a couple of closeish calls. Don't know if it's my playstyle, luck, or a bit of both but this really doesn't seem too difficult so far. I'm hoping I'll eat those words soon.
Net_Wrecker
Member
Wtf, a lizard just carried me for like 3 minutes, but when he got attacked the slugcat got free and was still alive?!
I mean I totally blew it and died a few minutes later because I had no idea where I was but still.
I mean I totally blew it and died a few minutes later because I had no idea where I was but still.
bender
What time is it?
Played for a few hours The animation work is outstanding. Not loving the controls yet, especially the long jump, but maybe they'll grow on me.. Movement just isn't fluid enough for my liking and I think that has a lot to do with standing vs crouching and letting you enter pipes backwards. I think I understand the decision for holding up to grab ledges but boy do I find myself making the same traversal mistakes and having to re-climb the room to re-attempt jumps. The decision to allow you to enter dead-end pipes is frustrating. I quit after glitching through a platform and having my character get stuck in a hanging animation after a long jump. I'm not sure where my feelings will end up on this but that Limbo comparison that one reviewer mentioned seems really odd.
fake edit: they need to speed up the animation for the door opening to the safe room.
fake edit: they need to speed up the animation for the door opening to the safe room.
gingerbeardman
Member
I'm surprised the difficulty and control issues were not picked up during play testing.
I'm assuming this was play tested by people other than the developers.
I'm assuming this was play tested by people other than the developers.
It was playtested quite a bit once it had a publisher. You can thank this testing for the hint text and the helper hologram.
gingerbeardman
Member
My guess is that it was initially at 60Hz but they slowed it down to make things easier. One quick change rather than having to re-balance every object in the physics world.
Great news
Sure, but why not 30Hz then?
I've had my eye on this game for a while now, although have not yet played it. The difficulty is somewhat concerning, as I love everything I've seen from the setting to the slugcat to the variety of enemies. How does this compare to Hollow Knight in that regard (if they're comparable at all)? Because that's the other platformer I was really looking forward to, only to find it pretty challenging, which resulted in it being put on the back burner as I go through Horizon.
Turin Turambar
Member
Does it matter? Is it important that the physics rate isn't a multiple of the refresh rate?