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[Krauser Kat]

numbers on false accusations.

Furthermore, in the most detailed study ever conducted of sexual assault reports to police, undertaken for the British Home Office in the early 2000s, out of 216 complaints that were classified as false, only 126 had even gotten to the stage where the accuser lodged a formal complaint. Only 39 complainants named a suspect. Only six cases led to an arrest, and only two led to charges being brought before they were ultimately deemed false. (Here, as elsewhere, it has to be assumed that some unknown percentage of the cases classified as false actually involved real rapes; what they don’t involve is countless innocent men’s lives being ruined.)
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20100418065544/homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs05/hors293.pdf

since records began in 1989, in the US there are only 52 cases where men convicted of sexual assault were exonerated because it turned out they were falsely accused. By way of comparison, in the same period, there are 790 cases in which people were exonerated for murder.
http://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Pages/browse.aspx

only between 2% and 10% of all reports are estimated to be false.
https://icdv.idaho.gov/conference/handouts/False-Allegations.pdf

 

[SheSaidNo]

According to RAINN, 9 of every 10 rape victims are women.

But yeah go ahead cut off your penis because you think its unfair that men are suspected to be guilty of rape when a woman presses charges

The 9 out of 10 statistic is a little misleading because rape was defined as penetration for a long time and not having coercive sex or being made to penetrate. It might still be defined by penetration actually, i'm not sure

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

The moral of the story is, do not fuck a stranger who is completely wasted.

 

[superbeau]

You might want to re-read the conversation, because he is agreeing with you.

yup, thanks.

 

[Charles Brandon]

Haha no. That line of thinking is what gets a lot of people in the states in a lot of trouble. Men can absolutely be raped.

OK what I meant was, if a man and a woman have sex and there is no penetration of the man by the woman, which is usually the case (but not always, agreed), then it doesn't matter was in control or who was the aggressor, the rape can only happen one way, if at all. At least that's how it is in the UK. You may lay a charge of sexual assault against a woman in that situation but it wouldn't be rape.

 

[pokeystaples]

The moral of the story is, do not fuck a stranger who is completely wasted.

I feel like people really miss this very important moral.

 

[RDreamer]

You're seeing things you want to see at this point. I asked a question, you're trying to turn this into a petty discussion about my character, which is not surprising in these threads quite often. There is a tendency to see dubious intent everywhere, even when a question is asked out of curiosity but such is the nature of the beast.

When the word benign is used, it is of course to point out that there's a varying level of gravity attached to the act in itself. I fully concede that I was wrong about catcalling and that was unfortunate, even though I was not looking for a precise term, which people have pointed out.

Example: Groping is not the same as penetrating someone forcefully. It simply is not. But there is a tendency to conflate the two when you categorize it as sexual assault and pile it on.

Women have grabbed my ass out of the blue in clubs, I'm never gonna equate that to someone forcing me to engage into a sexual act.

Yes it's not the same, but they're both sexual assault.

In any case I'm fairly certain the statistic he was pointing out doesn't actually include groping or at least might not depending on the circumstances.

According to RAINN:

11.2% of all students experience rape or sexual assault through physical force, violence, or incapacitation (among all graduate and undergraduate students).

Among graduate and professional students, 8.8% of females and 2.2% of males experience rape or sexual assault through physical force, violence, or incapacitation.

Among undergraduate students, 23.1% of females and 5.4% of males experience rape or sexual assault through physical force, violence, or incapacitation.

Since some of these statistics are gotten by survey the categorization of their own sexual assault probably depends on their own mindset. Some people might feel like you that a grope might not constitute "physical force, violence, or incapacitation" whereas some might feel their situation did fit that description. Even groping can have have many different scenarios that aren't the same.

 

[Sabercrusader]

The point is there's more evidence of consent than there is evidence to the contrary.

The only evidence of rape is her word and there is verifiable evidence of consent.

Okay, even though that video only really shows suggestive hand gestures and her letting him into her dorm, that doesn't mean that he's off the hook. She could have revoked consent after getting inside the room. I'm not saying he definitely raped her, but he isn't in the clear just because she ended up inviting him into her dorm room. It's a little bit of a tough case because there's not really a way to verify if she revoked her consent after getting in the dorm room.

I can see why they dropped the case but that video is far from proving he isn't at fault.

 

[Mesoian]

That twisted line of thought is the very reason people don't take die-hard "liberals" or "progressives" serious. And they definitely shouldn't.

Telling one person straight to the face that he is likely to murder someone is not nothing. I know it's a statistical ploy to make a point, a weak one, nonetheless, but come on. That's not how you have a discussion. And if you want to talk statistics, then bring credible statistcs instead of insinuating stuff.

So basically, to sum the hard-core perspective up: Men could always be falsely accused of rape and if there is no video evidence, then they are guilty by default. And women who lie about that (that number is not around 0) cannot be punished for destroying someone's life permanentely. And that is okay, because males are males? Or is there another reason for that?

1.) We're talking about statistics. If you are getting personally upset about statistical analysis, you have larger problems you need to inflict upon. And to ignore it because YOU PERSONALLY wouldn't do that is laughable. That's like saying the police don't have a problem with violence against minorities because you have 1 black friend and 1 friend who's a cop and they're both swell guys.

2.) No one is saying that false accusations from women stick 100% of the time but you. No one is saying that men beat rape allegations either. No one is saying that women have never lied about being raped or vice versa. I honestly don't know how you got any of that from this thread.

Okay, even though that video only really shows suggestive hand gestures and her letting him into her dorm, that doesn't mean that he's off the hook. She could have revoked consent after getting inside the room. I'm not saying he definitely raped her, but he isn't in the clear just because she ended up inviting him into her dorm room. It's a little bit of a tough case because there's not really a way to verify if she revoked her consent after getting in the dorm room.

I can see why they dropped the case but that video is far from proving he isn't at fault.

Sure. But it's more evidence than most. There's nothing about this entire situation that's air tight.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

The moral of the story is, do not fuck a stranger who is completely wasted.

Completely wasted is such a shit barometer though, especially if they are a stranger and you are also wasted. It just isn't smart to engage in those levels of intoxication.

I feel like people really miss this very important moral.

Yah, but when you too are completely wasted you aren't exactly the best at judging who is also wasted. It is just an exceptionally dangerous place to put yourself in, don't get wasted guys/gals.

 

[timetokill]

According to RAINN, 9 of every 10 rape victims are women.

But yeah go ahead cut off your penis because you think its unfair that men are suspected to be guilty of rape when a woman presses charges

Like most statistics about this particular thing, this is pretty misleading because men are exponentially less likely to believe they've been raped if they have been, and exponentially less likely to report a rape, and exponentially less likely to be believed if they do report it.

 

[Zonar]

Yes, the justice system needs a lot of work.

But why go into a thread about a POC actually getting justice and shit it up without clearly having read the story in the OP.

I read the story and watched the video. It's just a touchy subject for me that even WITH video coverage, people still can't get a conviction. This happens to be a rare exception but it has not been the norm. I am very happy he got off. I am just so fucking sad and tired, of such a high bar to overcome to be proven innocent.

 

[crisdecuba]

There should be a ban on stories of false accusations until we have a better handle on putting real rapists in jail. all this does is cast doubt on people who admit to being sexually assaulted. WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT, the criminal justice system is lenient on rapists and those who commit rape not the other way around.

Banning stories as a solution is misguided.

 

[Puck Beaverton]

Completely wasted is such a shit barometer though, especially if they are a stranger and you are also wasted. It just isn't smart to engage in those levels of intoxication.



Yah, but when you too are completely wasted you aren't exactly the best at judging who is also wasted. It is just an exceptionally dangerous place to put yourself in, don't get wasted guys/gals.

Yeah that will never happen.

 

[Charles Brandon]

Rape is an act of power, for god sake.

rape is penetration without consent, that's all it is.

 

[MastaKilla]

wasn't this a show on HBO

 

[Zonar]

Banning stories as a solution is misguided.

what about withholding names or something like that? a gag order?

 

[Charles Brandon]

And the rest of your post is ignored. Holy shit.

That remark was badly phrased. I did not mean that it was literally impossible for a man to be raped, I meant that, in the context of 'traditional' (for want of a better word) sexual relations between a man and woman i.e no penetration of the man, the woman cannot be said to have raped the man, whatever the circumstances are.

 

[QuantumBro]

There should be a ban on stories of false accusations until we have a better handle on putting real rapists in jail. all this does is cast doubt on people who admit to being sexually assaulted. WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT, the criminal justice system is lenient on rapists and those who commit rape not the other way around.

Okay Trump.

 

[GeordieMark]

Gonna need a lot more than some secondhand stories if you're going to expect anyone to take you seriously, considering every statistic out there says that rape goes underreported.

That's a different issue. Trying to find reliable stats is practically impossible. Most of the studies are flawed in some way. Yeah, my story was anecdotal and you can ignore it if you like. I believe the person that told me, as they didn't really have any reason to lie in the context in which they brought it up. None of this means I'm under any illusions about the number of rapes that are unreported or that some withdrawn accusations were genuine complaints. It's a very complicated situation.

 

[Geist-]

He's actually quite correct.

Remember, "you" is not you, "you" is the male populous. And yes, she is dramatically more likely to end up dead than coming back to accuse you of rape. That is the risk that women take in our society. It sucks.

Women are far more likely to be raped than men, but...

Men are far more likely to be murdered than women. Like, 9/10 of rape victims are female, but 8/10 of homicide victims are male.

Still, the danger women face from being raped can't be ignored.

 

[Nerazar]

Banning stories as a solution is misguided.

Yeah, I mean... why not dropping all charges against women in every case, because reasons? Obviously there are women out there who lie and who want to take revenge or whatever their motives are. That is what humans do. And that is also a crime and even if it's "just" 10% (some sources put that up to 30% as an estimate, because it's very hard to track), it's madness to defend that. Or even downplay it or even wanting to censor it.

And yes it's more than unfair to look at males and conclude "murderer" or "rapist". That is called sexism and that has to be called out. And if you bring statistics, then, please, bring in the full range: How likely is a person of color to be criminal? How likely is a transgender person to suffer severe mental problems or commit suicide, even after adjusting the gender? Bring in the numbers and then we can start talking. But the hardcore "progressives" wouldn't like the results.

 

[dinoric]

OK what I meant was, if a man and a woman have sex and there is no penetration of the man by the woman, which is usually the case (but not always, agreed), then it doesn't matter was in control or who was the aggressor, the rape can only happen one way, if at all. At least that's how it is in the UK. You may lay a charge of sexual assault against a woman in that situation but it wouldn't be rape.

The UK law is wrong and should be changed.

 

[Lonewulfeus]

I can't parse this. Are you comparing men rape stats to women's?

No I was trying to say...

If both people are equally intoxicated, then they both have equal agency of consent. There shouldn't be any gender bias in how the law is applied in these kinds of cases. Period.

But he put it way better.

 

[gaiages]

You're seeing things you want to see at this point. I asked a question, you're trying to turn this into a petty discussion about my character, which is not surprising in these threads quite often. There is a tendency to see dubious intent everywhere, even when a question is asked out of curiosity but such is the nature of the beast.

When the word benign is used, it is of course to point out that there's a varying level of gravity attached to the act in itself. I fully concede that I was wrong about catcalling and that was unfortunate, even though I was not looking for a precise term, which people have pointed out.

Example: Groping is not the same as penetrating someone forcefully. It simply is not. But there is a tendency to conflate the two when you categorize it as sexual assault and pile it on.

Women have grabbed my ass out of the blue in clubs, I'm never gonna equate that to someone forcing me to engage into a sexual act.

Please use better vocabulary next time, as the definition of 'benign' is 'harmless'. It ruins whatever argument you're trying to make.

 

[superbeau]

OK what I meant was, if a man and a woman have sex and there is no penetration of the man by the woman, which is usually the case (but not always, agreed), then it doesn't matter was in control or who was the aggressor, the rape can only happen one way, if at all. At least that's how it is in the UK. You may lay a charge of sexual assault against a woman in that situation but it wouldn't be rape.

It was (and still may be) that way in many states. There was the NY cop that raped a teacher in public in daylight hours with witnesses. However at the time NY defined rape as penis in vagina, and this was sodomy, he had to be convicted of Sexual Assault of such and such degree. (unless, I'm way wrong)

Also...

But a Manhattan jury made up of highly educated professionals refused to convict Officer Michael Pena of rape for a startling reason — the victim could not recall the color of a car parked by the courtyard where she was forced to her knees, sources told The Daily News Thursday.

“If she doesn’t remember these details, how does she know she was penetrated,”

 

[Sabercrusader]

Sure. But it's more evidence than most. There's nothing about this entire situation that's air tight.

That's true. The entire situation is sketchy. There's more evidence than most rape cases, but that evidence still doesn't lock down whether it was truly rape or not because it's still missing the key part of the story, what happened in the dorm room. No one can say for sure whether it was or wasn't rape.

 

[Charles Brandon]

The UK law is wrong and should be changed.

Having looked it up, it is also the law in the US

The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.

 

[Lionel Richie]

Regret is not rape, to be sure. But the likelihood of you being accused of rape when basic, consensual sex was all that happened is just so low. Her ending up dead by your hand is, statistically, something like 40-70% more likely.

According to which statistic?

 

[Charles Brandon]

It was (and still may be) that way in many states. There was the NY cop that raped a teacher in public in daylight hours with witnesses. However at the time NY defined rape as penis in vagina, and this was sodomy, he had to be convicted of Sexual Assault of such and such degree. (unless, I'm way wrong)

Also...

Yeah I looked it up, it was changed to the quote in my previous post in 2012. Doesn't need to be PIV anymore.

That quote in your post though...wow.

 

[nekkid]

Sadly this won't get the same publicity as when he was accused.

 

[Zonar]

Yeah, I mean... why not dropping all charges against women in every case, because reasons? Obviously there are women out there who lie and who want to take revenge or whatever their motives are. That is what humans do. And that is also a crime and even if it's "just" 10% (some sources put that up to 30% as an estimate, because it's very hard to track), it's madness to defend that. Or even downplay it or even wanting to censor it.

And yes it's more than unfair to look at males and conclude "murderer" or "rapist". That is called sexism and that has to be called out. And if you bring statistics, then, please, bring in the full range: How likely is a person of color to be criminal? How likely is a transgender person to suffer severe mental problems or commit suicide, even after adjusting the gender? Bring in the numbers and then we can start talking. But the hardcore "progressives" wouldn't like the results.

I'm not quite sure what you mean, and I don't mean to be argumentative but you have to be careful about using one set of statistics without using the whole range of statistics. For example, if you asked how likely is it for a person of color to be a criminal, you also have to ask how likely is it that people forced into poverty would be criminal. Or how likely is it for a person to be a criminal when police are not prevalent in the community? Or how likely is it a person to be a criminal if arrested at a higher rate for false crimes? It's just a slippery slope when you only picked the statistics that fit your need instead of looking at the whole picture.

 

[HiredN00bs]

Yah. It's not just talking to a cop for an hour and filling out a form. It's a full day of interviews, accusatory to the alleged victim I might add. You tell the story to multiple people who attempt to find any holes in your story, so sometimes they intentionally try to confuse you. Then a doctor will swab your entire body including your cavities. Then a cop will escort you (in the back of their squad car) to your home to collect the items you wore if you've changed. Then they drive you to the alleged perpetrators dwelling and ask you to point out their home. Then it's back to the station for a final interview. Not something many people will do because they regret a drunk decision.

You will probably spend multiple days going over it with the police. And that's not even including the work to get a restraining or peace order against the accused. By the end of the whole process, a real victim may simply decide it's not worth prosecuting.

 

[Krauser Kat]

Yeah, I mean... why not dropping all charges against women in every case, because reasons? Obviously there are women out there who lie and who want to take revenge or whatever their motives are. That is what humans do. And that is also a crime and even if it's "just" 10% (some sources put that up to 30% as an estimate, because it's very hard to track), it's madness to defend that. Or even downplay it or even wanting to censor it.

And yes it's more than unfair to look at males and conclude "murderer" or "rapist". That is called sexism and that has to be called out. And if you bring statistics, then, please, bring in the full range: How likely is a person of color to be criminal? How likely is a transgender person to suffer severe mental problems or commit suicide, even after adjusting the gender? Bring in the numbers and then we can start talking. But the hardcore "progressives" wouldn't like the results.

Where did you get that 30% shit from. Fuck your whataboutism and your bullshit stats.

You have a very nihilistic view of people who lie to the police. Every investigation should begin with the victims story being believed. Everyone else is innocent until a court proves otherwise. Just because a court cannot prove it doesnt mean a victim was lying or being malicious intent to ruin someones life.

 

[prag16]

numbers on false accusations.

Well, I mean, playing devil's advocate, that doesn't seem to include the number of cases in which a man was falsely accused, convicted, imprisoned, and served out (or is serving out) his sentence. Though it's obviously impossible to get accurate statistics on that.

Unless you're somehow sure that number is zero?

 

[Ketkat]

: How likely is a person of color to be criminal? How likely is a transgender person to suffer severe mental problems or commit suicide, even after adjusting the gender? Bring in the numbers and then we can start talking. But the hardcore "progressives" wouldn't like the results.

When it comes to who commits the most crime, you should be looking at income levels which I would hope is obvious. As for the trans number, the only "severe mental problems" afterwards are the ones that everyone has. Transitioning makes people way happier, but it doesn't somehow solve all of life's problems. And yes, the "hardcore progressives" would like the results because they're not in your favor despite what you think.

Your 30% number is also super bullshit.

A multi-site study of eight U.S. communities including 2,059 cases of sexual assault found a 7.1 percent rate of false reports (Lonsway, Archambault, & Lisak, 2009).

A study of 136 sexual assault cases in Boston from 1998-2007 found a 5.9 percent rate
of false reports (Lisak et al., 2010).

Using qualitative and quantitative analysis, researchers studied 812 reports of sexua lassault from 2000-2003 and found a 2.1 percent rate of false reports (Heenan & Murray 2006)

 

[Dude Abides]

Sadly this won't get the same publicity as when he was accused.

Yep. It will probably get more.

 

[Moose Biscuits]

Don't have drunk sex with people you don't know.

Actually, don't have sex with people you don't know, period. Solves the majority of these worries.

Never have sex, and you'll never have to worry about this problem ever again.

 

[Sephzilla]

numbers on false accusations.

up to 10% is still a significant enough number.

 

[benicillin]

up to 10% is still a significant enough number.

If you look at what those numbers represent when you talk about "false claims" not really.

 

[Snkfanatic]

It was (and still may be) that way in many states. There was the NY cop that raped a teacher in public in daylight hours with witnesses. However at the time NY defined rape as penis in vagina, and this was sodomy, he had to be convicted of Sexual Assault of such and such degree. (unless, I'm way wrong)

Also...

I.....I have no words for that quote in your post. Disgusting

 

[alexthekid]

Almost the same thing happened to an old friend of mine, and during the whole affair I actually thought he was guilty. I was so ashamed of myself after the truth came out.

numbers on false accusations.

All that says is that in the same way that rape is hard to prove, so is consent.
Edit: actually I might have misread

 

[ApharmdX]

up to 10% is still a significant enough number.

When you consider how rape is severely under-reported, 5-10% of false rape reports aren't that significant.

I mean, it's absolutely heinous when an innocent person's life is ruined, don't get me wrong, and false allegations of rape should be punished harshly, but there are few incidences of that overall.

 

[BlazinSkatinAxel]

There are two ways to avoid this:

Don't get wasted.

Be Mike Pence.

 

[Sephzilla]

When you consider how rape is severely under-reported, 5-10% of false rape reports aren't that significant.

I mean, it's absolutely heinous when an innocent person's life is ruined, don't get me wrong, and false allegations of rape should be punished harshly, but there are few incidences of that overall.

Yeah good point regarding how under reported it is.

 

[E92 M3]

Up to 30% of women are sexually assaulted before graduating from college.

The burden should always be on the men. As I say in all of these threads, there is a real problem with rape in this country that doesn't get nearly enough exposure or attention.

INNOCENT until proven guilty. The burden of proof always falls on the prosecution.

 

[blakep267]

I feel like people really miss this very important moral.

They were both drunk.

 

[Crazyorloco]

In the video you can see her dragging him out of the bar pretty forcibly.

Yeah it sounds like she was definitely the aggressor. Even the cab driver stated she was all over him.


They were both really drunk and did it.

 

[Mesoian]

According to which statistic?

2015
2009

 

[NJSlay]

I saw this happen a lot growing up. Even know a girl who caught an std and lied to her parents saying she was raped at a party because she was still a minor and needed to see a doctor. Guy did time, too 😑