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[SantaC]

AMDs 7000 GPU series is upon us and we still dont know what it is about. AMD has been incredibly tightlipped about it, but Nvidia is definitely fearing it by launching 4090 first.



I am liking Redtechgaming a lot for rumors. He was spot in for RDNA2 and he is pretty good at explaining things.

So what he is hearing about N31:

• Targeting 3 - 3.3 Ghz
• 4 times faster than N10 (5700XT)
• ~73 TFLOPS
• 6 MCD (6nm) paired with 1 GCD (5nm)
• GCD is 308 mm² in size while each MCD is 37.5 mm².
• 24GB of GDDR6 at 384bit bus

 

[Crayon]

In before people start crying about this youtuber.

 

[SantaC]

In before people start crying about this youtuber.

He was the one that broke infinity cache for RDNA2.

 

[FingerBang]

AMDs 7000 GPU series is upon us and we still dont know what it is about. AMD has been incredibly tightlipped about it, but Nvidia is definitely fearing it by launching 4090 first.



I am liking Redtechgaming a lot for rumors. He was spot in for RDNA2 and he is pretty good at explaining things.

So what he is hearing about N31:

• Targeting 3 - 3.3 Ghz
• 4 times faster than N10 (5700XT)
• ~73 TFLOPS
• 6 MCD (6nm) paired with 1 GCD (5nm)
• GCD is 308 mm² in size while each MCD is 37.5 mm².
• 24GB of GDDR6 at 384bit bus

Both him and MLID get a lot of shit but having followed them for years, on graphics cards they've been spot on. RDNA 3 being chiplet based, the lineup for the 4000 series, RDNA 2 etc.

They have reliable sources, but people just love to hate on them because they don't get things 100% right. People in the industry know that things can can change quickly.

I think the 4080 12 GB "unlaunch" was done exactly because they're afraid of AMD. We know already they can compete in raster performance and we know that with the chiplet based approach (though it's the first iteration for a GPU) they have price and flexibility on their side. I believe they not only will be able to compete with the 4090, they might destroy them in the price to performance race.

But they will still lag behind when it comes to technology. Fingers crossed they'll be able to offer a hardware based FSR like Nvidia since personally I'm not sold on DLSS3 yet after the coverage of both DF and HU. I think it's a technology that will be great for 240/360/480hz displays, but with the monstrous power of the 4090 4K/120hz with RTX on is fine without it.

 

[BennyBlanco]

I’m just curious about how these perform with raytracing. Rasterization will be juicy I’m sure.

 

[Crayon]

He was the one that broke infinity cache for RDNA2.

I think he's solid. There is only so much you can get right when you are trying to wrangle rumors of products that aren't even finished.

Anyway... the main rumor. There are conflicting things about the pricing, and that's what everyone wants to know. Are they going to do the token undercut or go back to actual sane pricing. Nvidia is on track for a.... $600? ... 4060. Is AMD going to make the 7700xt $579 like some bullshit or are they going to be able to do it for $500? On one hand, nvidia is in a shitty spot and amd can go for the throat. On the other hand, amd might be a lot more concerned about their margins than marketshare and follow nvidia's higher prices. The one thing that sounds credible either way is that amd is getting a little financial edge with the small gcd chiplets.

I'm on the edge of my seat to know the pricing on this 7800xt!!! C'mon AMD, find your balls and take a bite out of this shit.

 

[Skifi28]

Both Nvidia and Intel have revealed their hands. What's the point of staying silent so close to launch? To me this doesn't bode well. Wouldn't they be shouting from the rooftops right now if the product was great?

 

[Crayon]

Both Nvidia and Intel have revealed their hands. What's the point of staying silent so close to launch? To me this doesn't bode well. Wouldn't they be shouting from the rooftops right now if the product was great?

Intel is a blip at the moment. They are only waiting a month after nvidia. Enough time to see what the public reception is to a $1,200 3080.

 

[ANIMAL1975]

...
So what he is hearing about N31:

• Targeting 3 - 3.3 Ghz
• 4 times faster than N10 (5700XT)
• ~73 TFLOPS
• 6 MCD (6nm) paired with 1 GCD (5nm)
• GCD is 308 mm² in size while each MCD is 37.5 mm².
• 24GB of GDDR6 at 384bit bus

Yeh but can it run crysis 2 and 3 remastered?!

 

[Black_Stride]

Its a physically smaller chip than AD102 on the same node.
It does have a larger cache than AD102 but dont expect miracles.


I actually think some of the leaks have Nvidia breathing a sigh with relief.
Theyve even decided just to cancel the Ada Titan cuz they likely know the 4090 and 4090ti are in a different league to big big Navi.

The only thing I care about is the pricing.
If AMD can price their 7900XT(?) well below the 4080'16G then Nvidia are gonna be sweating.

I think the 4070 and 4060 are gonna be near DOA cards, they will be fighting against Ampere and AMDs 7700XT and 7600XT.
All of which will likely match or beat them both in performance and in price.

 

[Neo_game]

AMDs 7000 GPU series is upon us and we still dont know what it is about. AMD has been incredibly tightlipped about it, but Nvidia is definitely fearing it by launching 4090 first.

They should have intentionally leaked some benchmark if they had a faster card. Intel did something similar about their 13th gen cpu before AMD launch. AMD is dead silent and giving Nvidia free press for weeks which is not a good sign.

 

[Crayon]

Its a physically smaller chip than AD102 on the same node.
It does have a larger cache than AD102 but dont expect miracles.


I actually think some of the leaks have Nvidia breathing a sigh with relief.
Theyve even decided just to cancel the Ada Titan cuz they likely know the 4090 and 4090ti are in a different league to big big Navi.

The only thing I care about is the pricing.
If AMD can price their 7900XT(?) well below the 4080'16G then Nvidia are gonna be sweating.

I think the 4070 and 4060 are gonna be near DOA cards, they will be fighting against Ampere and AMDs 7700XT and 7600XT.
All of which will likely match or beat them both in performance and in price.

I also don't think amd are gunning for the 4090. Or at least, not anymore. They might be better off letting nvidia have that and focusing on beating the 4080. If they can do 7900XT for 999 like 6900XT then they are on track. And also agree that I have no idea how the 4060 and 4070 turn out without having a $600 price gap to the 4080 and only a 4070ti to put in between.

They should have intentionally leaked some benchmark if they had a faster card. Intel did something similar about their 13th gen cpu before AMD launch. AMD is dead silent and giving Nvidia free press for weeks which is not a good sign.

This line of thinking does not make sense. If the only reason to announce later was to hide a worse product, then nobody would ever do it because it signals they have the worse product. I'm sure there is more than one factor in deciding when to reveawl.

 

[GHG]

AMD I ask just one thing of you. Fix your shitty performance in VR when paired with Oculus headsets.

 

[Neo_game]

This line of thinking does not make sense. If the only reason to announce later was to hide a worse product, then nobody would ever do it because it signals they have the worse product. I'm sure there is more than one factor in deciding when to reveawl.

IMO AMD should always release their card first irrespective of performance. But if they had better numbers than 4090 there is no reason not get the word out via some leak at least. These stupidly expensive cards are only for bragging rights very few % gamers buy them anyways.

 

[RoboFu]

I’ll take 3!! Or 1

 

[playsaves3]

I think he's solid. There is only so much you can get right when you are trying to wrangle rumors of products that aren't even finished.

Anyway... the main rumor. There are conflicting things about the pricing, and that's what everyone wants to know. Are they going to do the token undercut or go back to actual sane pricing. Nvidia is on track for a.... $600? ... 4060. Is AMD going to make the 7700xt $579 like some bullshit or are they going to be able to do it for $500? On one hand, nvidia is in a shitty spot and amd can go for the throat. On the other hand, amd might be a lot more concerned about their margins than marketshare and follow nvidia's higher prices. The one thing that sounds credible either way is that amd is getting a little financial edge with the small gcd chiplets.

I'm on the edge of my seat to know the pricing on this 7800xt!!! C'mon AMD, find your balls and take a bite out of this shit.

Imagine a world where the 7900xt is 800 and the 7950xt is 1k I know that wouldn’t happen but I definitely think amd would win the generation if that happened

 

[Crayon]

IMO AMD should always release their card first irrespective of performance. But if they had better numbers than 4090 there is no reason not get the word out via some leak at least. These stupidly expensive cards are only for bragging rights very few % gamers buy them anyways.

Oh I see. That's the thing, I don't think they have anything to go toe-to-toe with 4090. Otherwise, it would probably be a good idea to spoil it. Seems like it's easy enough to let nvidia take the super-premium crown at $1,500+. Having the fastest card under four figures would be a good consolation brag.

 

[Crayon]

Imagine a world where the 7900xt is 800 and the 7950xt is 1k I know that wouldn’t happen but I definitely think amd would win the generation if that happened

Depends on what you mean by win. They would win in my heart lol. Even that would have a hard time swaying a lot of buyers from nvidia. If RDNA3 is really good, that makes 3 in a row. RDNA2 was actually really good, but there was not a single comparison I've ever seen that did not mention DLSS and RT performance.

I just got my first game with FSR2.1 and it looks fuckin great. So it works. They need to get that in as many games as possible and there mostly goes the DLSS selling point. In RT.... ehhhh they still have a few years before it's totally critical so I think they can afford to still be a little behind. But not so far behind that it's a joke like it is now.

 

[playsaves3]

Depends on what you mean by win. They would win in my heart lol. Even that would have a hard time swaying a lot of buyers from nvidia. If RDNA3 is really good, that makes 3 in a row. RDNA2 was actually really good, but there was not a single comparison I've ever seen that did not mention DLSS and RT performance.

I just got my first game with FSR2.1 and it looks fuckin great. So it works. They need to get that in as many games as possible and there mostly goes the DLSS selling point. In RT.... ehhhh they still have a few years before it's totally critical so I think they can afford to still be a little behind. But not so far behind that it's a joke like it is now.

This is my first pc so I’m just looking forward to everything

 

[FingerBang]

Oh I see. That's the thing, I don't think they have anything to go toe-to-toe with 4090. Otherwise, it would probably be a good idea to spoil it. Seems like it's easy enough to let nvidia take the super-premium crown at $1,500+. Having the fastest card under four figures would be a good consolation brag.

There's no reason for AMD to spoil anything since the amount of 4090 Nvidia will be able to sell being on the market a few weeks early is nothing in the big scheme of things.

Being secretive about it, on the other hand, can be a great strategy to make sure Nvidia can't react fast enough.

That said, 2 things:
1) Don't expect the same pricing as before. Nvidia's pricing is insane, but 5nm chips are more expensive to produce. Expect at least $100 extra on the mid/high range
2) Just like Nvidia, AMD has tons of cards on the market to get rid of. They're obviously delaying their middle/low range like Nvidia but their bigger competition will be their previous lineup. Price the new cards too competitively and no one is going to buy the old one. Raise too much the price of the new ones and get ready to unlaunch them.

 

[playsaves3]

Oh I see. That's the thing, I don't think they have anything to go toe-to-toe with 4090. Otherwise, it would probably be a good idea to spoil it. Seems like it's easy enough to let nvidia take the super-premium crown at $1,500+. Having the fastest card under four figures would be a good consolation brag.

Im still confident 7900xt will be 5-10% faster than the 4090 in pure raster but we will see

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

In before people start crying about this youtuber.

There was no goofy face in the thumbnail, so I deemed it too boring to watch.

 

[Kazekage1981]

Is rumored to support Display Port 2.1 which NVIDIA 40RTX cards do NOT support

 

[PhoenixTank]

They should have intentionally leaked some benchmark if they had a faster card. Intel did something similar about their 13th gen cpu before AMD launch. AMD is dead silent and giving Nvidia free press for weeks which is not a good sign.

I much prefer silence to the "Poor Volta" shenanigans.

 

[Tams]

Both Nvidia and Intel have revealed their hands. What's the point of staying silent so close to launch? To me this doesn't bode well. Wouldn't they be shouting from the rooftops right now if the product was great?

Launch venue and everything will have been paid for. The event will have been all prepared for the 3rd November.

Why waste all that?

 

[Hot5pur]

Just a little over two weeks left, should be interesting.
No plans to replace my 3080 in the next 2 years, but still interesting to see what they come up with.
Nvidia has a lot of cash to hire a lot of high quality engineers, so I don't expect AMD to just blow them up like they did with Intel - don't think AMD dedicates those kinda resources to their GPU devision since core business is processors.
Still, RDNA2 was a nice surprise for many, hope they do it again and light a fire under Nvidia's butt.

 

[Corndog]

I think he's solid. There is only so much you can get right when you are trying to wrangle rumors of products that aren't even finished.

Anyway... the main rumor. There are conflicting things about the pricing, and that's what everyone wants to know. Are they going to do the token undercut or go back to actual sane pricing. Nvidia is on track for a.... $600? ... 4060. Is AMD going to make the 7700xt $579 like some bullshit or are they going to be able to do it for $500? On one hand, nvidia is in a shitty spot and amd can go for the throat. On the other hand, amd might be a lot more concerned about their margins than marketshare and follow nvidia's higher prices. The one thing that sounds credible either way is that amd is getting a little financial edge with the small gcd chiplets.

I'm on the edge of my seat to know the pricing on this 7800xt!!! C'mon AMD, find your balls and take a bite out of this shit.

Depends on yields. If they can’t produce a lot of chips they will definitely price high. If they have plenty of supply it seems smart to push that.

 

[Crayon]

Depends on yields. If they can’t produce a lot of chips they will definitely price high. If they have plenty of supply it seems smart to push that.

They should be doing good on that front with the chiplet approach.

 

[TheRedRiders]

People here are quick to defend RGT and MLiD. There leaks are very much hit and miss and lets not forget that a large chunk of their info is based on Angstronomic’s RDNA 3 leak (who has an extremely good track record).

I still remember months ago when RGT said Lovelace would struggle to compete with RDNA 3 in ray-tracing performance, a claim which is looking pretty laughable now.

Now both RGT and MLiD are being super coy on discussing the RT performance of the RDNA 3 cards…yet they seem to know every other metric.

I don’t want to completely dismiss them but I do think we should approach their leaks with a healthy amount of skepticism.

As for the RDNA 3 performance…I’m personally split between getting a 4080 or a 7800 XT, if it manages to compete with the 4080 in rasterisation and RT at a lower TDP then it’ll be a very attractive option, I still think the 4080 will edge it out on RT.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I just want them to apply pressure to nvidia. Make them sweat. 1200 for the 4080 is bonkers.

We need some competition here!

 

[Xyphie]

Both him and MLID get a lot of shit but having followed them for years, on graphics cards they've been spot on. RDNA 3 being chiplet based, the lineup for the 4000 series, RDNA 2 etc.

They have reliable sources, but people just love to hate on them because they don't get things 100% right. People in the industry know that things can can change quickly.

Here's MLID on Navi 3x lineup from just a few months ago. I screenshotted them because the guy has a habit of deleting his old videos when he's just completely wrong about stuff. Assuming Angstronomics specifications are correct (a leaker with an actual good track record so far) basically everything that's specific about them are wrong. Thinking that hardware can change in a matter of months is absurd, making a GPU these days is like a half-decade endeavour from conception to shipped product.

 

[GymWolf]

Just gimme a 7800 that perform like a 4080 16gb for 800-900 euros and we have a deal.

 

[Black_Stride]

Im still confident 7900xt will be 5-10% faster than the 4090 in pure raster but we will see

Why would you think that?
Ada and RDNA3 are on the same node.
AMD doesnt have the node advantage anymore.
Both are gonna be boosting to 3000Mhz what could AMD possibly do to actually take that the lead from Nvidia?

Beating the RTX 4090 even in pure raster will be a tall order.
Maybe in those AMD favoring titles like Valhalla and FarCry, but in general and on average the 4090 isnt losing this battle.

 

[Zathalus]

So RDNA3 is a smaller chip on a worse process node and is likely using worse memory? Sounds like best case scenario then is they match the 4090 in rasterization while being worse in RT and ML.

 

[winjer]

Both him and MLID get a lot of shit but having followed them for years, on graphics cards they've been spot on. RDNA 3 being chiplet based, the lineup for the 4000 series, RDNA 2 etc.

They have reliable sources, but people just love to hate on them because they don't get things 100% right. People in the industry know that things can can change quickly.

I think the 4080 12 GB "unlaunch" was done exactly because they're afraid of AMD. We know already they can compete in raster performance and we know that with the chiplet based approach (though it's the first iteration for a GPU) they have price and flexibility on their side. I believe they not only will be able to compete with the 4090, they might destroy them in the price to performance race.

But they will still lag behind when it comes to technology. Fingers crossed they'll be able to offer a hardware based FSR like Nvidia since personally I'm not sold on DLSS3 yet after the coverage of both DF and HU. I think it's a technology that will be great for 240/360/480hz displays, but with the monstrous power of the 4090 4K/120hz with RTX on is fine without it.

No they are not.
They just throw every rumor and guess until something is right.
Like the saying goes, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

 

[crackajack]

NVidia came from 8nm Ampere to 4nm Lovelace. AMD already was on 6 or 7nm and just goes down to 6+5? That should be real trouble and can't offer the same improvement. The performance per dollar on the 4090 is sort of acceptable in an unhinged market, but its best feature is that performance per watt seems much improved, especially undervolted. They went crazy with 600W targets and huge coolers, especially from partners, while the card seems to be run fine/best at around 350W and supersilent with the probably still too big relatively small founders edition cooler.
We need competition to get the prices down, but I guess AMD should aim at the lower tiers and leave high end to nVidia. Attack nVidia right below 40series, where nVidia left the market with their old series.

 

[SantaC]

Why would you think that?
Ada and RDNA3 are on the same node.
AMD doesnt have the node advantage anymore.
Both are gonna be boosting to 3000Mhz what could AMD possibly do to actually take that the lead from Nvidia?

Beating the RTX 4090 even in pure raster will be a tall order.
Maybe in those AMD favoring titles like Valhalla and FarCry, but in general and on average the 4090 isnt losing this battle.

AMD is on MCD. Nvidia isnt.

 

[Black_Stride]

AMD is on MCD. Nvidia isnt.

Do MCDs make the GCD faster?

 

[SantaC]

Do MCDs make the GCD faster?

It is a chiplet based architecure. We'll see how good it will be

 

[ToTTenTranz]

Is there anything new in redgamingtech's video that wasn't already in Skyjuice's article at Angstronomics?

Do MCDs make the GCD faster?

Chiplets allow for smaller dies that concentrate less power so higher clocks should be possible. Also, it seems that AMD's architecture is better tuned for higher clocks, considering the new 4nm Ada GPUs aren't clocking mich higher than AMD's 7nm RDNA2.

NVidia came from 8nm Ampere to 4nm Lovelace. AMD already was on 6 or 7nm and just goes down to 6+5?

4nm is actually just a half node of 5nm and performance should be similar.

 

[Black_Stride]

It is a chiplet based architecure. We'll see how good it will be

The GCD is still monolithic:

The GCD is using the same node as Ada and is physically smaller.
What black magic are you assuming the MCDs are gonna do to make up for that lost physical space.

Disaggregating the whole chip isnt a magic bullet for performance, its a cost cutting measure as it curtails waste and allows for multiple nodes to be used on in the same product.

 

[SantaC]

 

[Black_Stride]

Is there anything new in redgamingtech's video that wasn't already in Skyjuice's article at Angstronomics?



Chiplets allow for smaller dies that concentrate less power so higher clocks should be possible. Also, it seems that AMD's architecture is better tuned for higher clocks, considering the new 4nm Ada GPUs aren't clocking mich higher than AMD's 7nm RDNA2.




4nm is actually just a half node of 5nm and performance should be similar.

I fully expect 3000Mhz on RDNA3 to be easy work.
But I still dont see them taking the overall crown if they havent done some other black magic with ML and RT.

People will still gravitate towards Nvidia because of the feature set.
Doubling Raster performance should take the 7900XT(?) to be trading blows with the 4090 in certain titles, but if theyve only doubled RT performance that will still leave them in the dust.
Remember the 6900XT was already trading blows with the 3090 but that didnt really help it gain adoption.
Its selling for like 600 - 700 dollars new.....in theory it should be selling like hot cakes.

I am glad they are going for a 384bit bus that plus a huge Infinity Cache, it should eat through current 4K titles.
But the 7900XT isnt the most interesting of cards.

The 7800XT, 7700XT and 7600XT are the real stars cuz Nvidia probably dont have anything to really match those cards.
If the RT performance can atleast keep up with a 3080.

 

[GymWolf]

But they will still lag behind when it comes to technology. Fingers crossed they'll be able to offer a hardware based FSR like Nvidia since personally I'm not sold on DLSS3 yet after the coverage of both DF and HU. I think it's a technology that will be great for 240/360/480hz displays, but with the monstrous power of the 4090 4K/120hz with RTX on is fine without it.

Someone need to check the bench for plague tale requiem...the first "big" game released after the 4090.

People thinking that a 4090 is gonna be enough for everything at 4k120 without dlss are in for a REALLY rude awakening...

Like i say every single time, heavy (or in this case fucking broken) games are still gonna be released in the future, and requiem doesn't even have rtx...

 

[b0uncyfr0]

Requiem needs more optimising first before we can use it as a benchmark.

 

[daninthemix]

I love the tension of these wars. There's always the undercurrent of lurking console fans eyeing up the AMD offering, even though it won't possibly fit - in terms of size or power draw or cost - into a console product.

 

[FingerBang]

Someone need to check the bench for plague tale requiem...the first "big" game released after the 4090.

People thinking that a 4090 is gonna be enough for everything at 4k120 without dlss are in for a REALLY rude awakening...

Like i say every single time, heavy (or in this case fucking broken) games are still gonna be released in the future, and requiem doesn't even have rtx...

Heavy and unoptimized games are still going to be released, yes.

You can lower the settings and use DLSS/FSR to reach that refresh rate. I'd rather do that than use DLSS3 with the added latency.

 

[SantaC]

I fully expect 3000Mhz on RDNA3 to be easy work.
But I still dont see them taking the overall crown if they havent done some other black magic with ML and RT.

People will still gravitate towards Nvidia because of the feature set.
Doubling Raster performance should take the 7900XT(?) to be trading blows with the 4090 in certain titles, but if theyve only doubled RT performance that will still leave them in the dust.
Remember the 6900XT was already trading blows with the 3090 but that didnt really help it gain adoption.
Its selling for like 600 - 700 dollars new.....in theory it should be selling like hot cakes.

I am glad they are going for a 384bit bus that plus a huge Infinity Cache, it should eat through current 4K titles.
But the 7900XT isnt the most interesting of cards.

The 7800XT, 7700XT and 7600XT are the real stars cuz Nvidia probably dont have anything to really match those cards.
If the RT performance can atleast keep up with a 3080.

Actually RDNA3 is rumored to only have 96MB infinity cache, less than 128MB.

 

[SScorpio]

For all the talk of the 4090, I feel most people are forgetting that over 90% of card sales are the 50/60 midrange models.

Having the best is prestigious, but having more sales can bring in more revenue.

It was lack of DSLL and ray tracing that has kept AMD back. If they can complete now, Nvidia will need to cut prices.

 

[adamosmaki]

Its a physically smaller chip than AD102 on the same node.
It does have a larger cache than AD102 but dont expect miracles.


I actually think some of the leaks have Nvidia breathing a sigh with relief.
Theyve even decided just to cancel the Ada Titan cuz they likely know the 4090 and 4090ti are in a different league to big big Navi.

The only thing I care about is the pricing.
If AMD can price their 7900XT(?) well below the 4080'16G then Nvidia are gonna be sweating.

I think the 4070 and 4060 are gonna be near DOA cards, they will be fighting against Ampere and AMDs 7700XT and 7600XT.
All of which will likely match or beat them both in performance and in price.

Amd doesn't even have to beat 4080 16gb. If they can deliver an 800-900 7900xt with similar raster performance to 4080 and 80% the rt performance and can also deliver mid range products that undercut nvidia by 100-150 they will be in a good spot