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[mocolostrocolos]

"The game's length is beyond 6 hours"

"But there is a youtube proof that..."

"Distorsion time field".

 

[witchedwiz]

The issue is that not many people want to pay $60 for a 5-10 hour game, especially one extremely cutscene heavy. If you do, then go for it, but I would much rather get at least 20 hours of gameplay if I drop sixty bucks.

This summarize the view of many posters..
the quality of the game might even be good anyway, but if the game takes like 5 hours to complete, i'd rather bring my full price purchase to a fully flashed game with GAMEPLAY time matching my money investment..
i understand and respect different views that other games are short (but ppl are forgetting that they were much cheaper to buy too...) but some of us feel this way, sorry

 

[ViciousDS]

It's an in-house engine too, developed from the ground up.

which basically means this is just the beginning for them, most of development probably went into creating that engine. Give them a chance to use a full dev cycle on another game and I'm pretty sure it will be much, much longer.

Anyone pm me the link where you are watching that playthrough?

 

[erawsd]

I watched 6 chapters of that YouTube playthrough last night which ran to about 90 minutes. The amount of cut scenes in those 6 chapters was insane, there was maybe 25/30 mins of gameplay and the guy playing was not rushing (he certainly died a few times during the QTE stealth kills)

I want to play the game as I love the aesthetic and its steam punk vibe, but I'm not sure I want to pay £50 for a game in which most of the time I wont actually be doing anything.

This is why I dont really consider this the same as ICO or even Metal Gear. Those games have 6hrs of actual gameplay. From the way things sound, The Order is 6hrs total and half of it is cutscenes, meaning theres only around 3 hrs of actual gameplay.

 

[G_Berry]

Fuck it. Just play through it the weekend and trade it in on the Monday. You'll get at least half your money back which can go towards Bloodborne that's what I'll probably end up doing anyway. Unless the games story and atmosphere floors me that much then I'll keep it just as a sort of memento to play every once in a blue moon.

Im doing this. Trading evolve for the order.

At EB games in Australia, you can return the game within 7 days of purchase and get all your money back!

The order will be traded for a battlefield preorder the next day lol.

 

[EventHorizon]

I watched 6 chapters of that YouTube playthrough last night which ran to about 90 minutes. The amount of cut scenes in those 6 chapters was insane, there was maybe 25/30 mins of gameplay and the guy playing was not rushing (he certainly died a few times during the QTE stealth kills)

Yea people keep acting like the 5.5 hour play through was some kind of speed run. It was normal everyday type play and we can confirm that by actually watching the video. That's why it keeps getting quoted.

Every time I've heard someone mention 10+ hours it is followed by an admission that they were searching every corner of every room in search of collectibles. If that's how you expect to play then great. I expect you'll get 10+. For the rest of us, that 5.5 hour video looks a lot closer to how we play games.

 

[Bornstellar]

Wow someone spent 5+ hours on youtube watching an entire playthrough from start to end? I hope he didn't do it just to prove the point.

I had to fix up some meshes for a mod and needed something to keep me entertained whilst working on them.

 

[WordsintheWater]

I know what you mean. It happens that often times people refuse to look at the other side of an argument, and are usually rather unreasonable in their stance, especially when they're on the "negative" side of things. While I reserve my right to an absolute judgement until I get my hands on it personally, I'll say that I've often been disappointed by very short games. If I can pop in the game and beat it in an afternoon, that's not okay at a $60 price point. Some of these Metroid, MGS, and RE comparisons are kind of crazy to me, because I spent well over a day playing those games.

But I think a lot of it comes back to the whole "cinematic experience" business, of wanting to make a movie rather than a game. I personally feel that if that's the way a developer chooses to make their game, that's fine, but expectations should be tempered and set from the very beginning. There should be no two ways about it. If you know that's the type of game you're making, you should do your part to tell people about it.

Anyway, it's a rather difficult discussion to have in the first place. Everyone has their own idea of what they want from a game and what they expect for their money. Ultimately, as you said before, people will vote with their wallets. I'll be sad if that vote is skewed due to some people being "tricked", but hopefully the reviews will come out soon enough and people will know what they're getting into before they make the decisions.

I agree with you, and from what I have seen they have been pretty upfront about what kind of game they were making, by saying that the story will drive the gameplay and that it would be a cinematic experience. Of course all that stuff doesn't make it into the marketing of the game and the general public probably doesn't exactly know what to expect.

 

[Arjen]

For me, a singleplayer only game that is <10 hours is not worth full price for me.

 

[Sodding_Gamer]

Im doing this. Trading evolve for the order.

At EB games in Australia, you can return the game within 7 days of purchase and get all your money back!

The order will be traded for a battlefield preorder the next day lol.

Haha nice one! I'll at least get half back if not more and I paid 36 pound for The order. With searching for collectibles, playing on hard and taking in the sights, the game will probably clock around 8 hours which is fine for me. If I plat it the weekend then I will most definitely trade it in and get a pre-order down for Bloodborne.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

If you don't understand the MW comparison then your reading comprehension is terrible.

It´s a horrible comparison because the main point of MW was the multiplayer. $60 for a 5 hour game with no MP is ludicrous, and greedy.

 

[KainXVIII]

Well of course we don't know, it hasn't been released

But some people already compares it with cult classic which is a little premature

 

[KingSnake]

Apparently it wasn't obvious to you because you said "where is the response?" Even though there is one and it's bolded right at the top for you.

There is a response, but no answer to the issue. And I will stop here, as I see you are going after all the opinions that are not fitting yours in this thread.

 

[Carn82]

For the rest of us, that 5.5 hour video looks a lot closer to how we play games.

Fair enough. I'm sure that The Order can be finished in a decent afternoon + evening. But like with a good piece of steak, I'dd rather take my time enjoying it instead of trying to clean my plate as fast as possible. The steak might have been expensive, and you could've gotten a heap of grounded meat as well for the same price, but man, nothing beats a nice piece of steak. Unless you're a vegetarian, then you're just silly

 

[Bornstellar]

It´s a horrible comparison because the main point of MW was the multiplayer. $60 for a 5 hour game with no MP is ludicrous, and greedy.

Again, it depends on the quality of experience. I can say definitively that from an audio-visual standpoint, the Order is worthy. From a gameplay / narrative standpoint... I'll defer judgment.

 

[Forkball]

I think you are genius if you can beat Super Metroid in 5 hours in the first try.

No way was Super Metroid 5 hours long.

lern2speedrun

Ok maybe I was exaggerating. I don't remember my Super Metroid time since it was years ago, but How Long to Beat has the main story as 7.5 hours. It's not a very long game for sure.

But why would you rather have 20 hours just 'because'? If Super Metroid is one of the best games ever and is 5 hours long, it is still one of the best games ever. Why artificially limit yourself based on length?

Games are an interesting medium in that the length is a major selling point. No one really cares if a movie is 90-150 minutes. People aren't going to complain that a book is 300 pages opposed to 700. However, movies and books aren't $60. People don't want to pay that amount for something they can beat in a day or two. It is just an intrinsic aspect people consider when buying video games. I mean, Portal is a great game that can be beaten in two to three hours. But would you pay $40 for Portal? I think most people would not. Maybe The Order is an excellent game and will be lauded years from now as a classic title, but at this current point in time when it is $60, it's understandable that people would be less than anxious to buy it if they aren't going to get enough hours after it. Think about it, if movies are two hours, and let's say it's ten bucks a ticket, you can watch 2.5 movies for $25 in the amount of time it takes to beat The Order.

 

[TGO]

Im doing this. Trading evolve for the order.

At EB games in Australia, you can return the game within 7 days of purchase and get all your money back!

The order will be traded for a battlefield preorder the next day lol.

See this I can understand, I just don't understand watching it on YouTube
Why ruin it for yourself, it becomes pointless even getting when the price drops because you've spoilt it by watching the play through.

 

[Cyborg]

This a mess.

Yup........

 

[CanUKlehead]

The engine they created probably took the most time

In the vein of 'Watch Dogs 2 should be awesome' I'm now looking forward to The Order 2 (uh...1887??).

Edit: This has definitely been messy since at least E3, if I recall correctly, with outlets saying it was quite boring and unoriginal.

 

[On Demand]

Alien Isolation- It's too long. They should of made it shorter.

The Order- It's too short. Not worth $60.

Can't win.

 

[danowat]

My guess is, some people want this game to fail, because it's one of these "cinematic" games. And... you know... these "cinematic" games are kiling all the other ordinary games.
So "cinematic" games are teh evil.

All this hate that some of these "cinematic" games are gettin' ... it's hilarious.
You could think one of these games killed Super Mario.

So it's the PS4 version of Ryse?

I know it's been said before, but I see just as much value in a (short) 5-10hr game, as I do in a long 40+hr game that has a 5-10hr story and 30+ hours of open world padding.

 

[King_Moc]

Yea people keep acting like the 5.5 hour play through was some kind of speed run. It was normal everyday type play and we can confirm that by actually watching the video. That's why it keeps getting quoted.

Every time I've heard someone mention 10+ hours it is followed by an admission that they were searching every corner of every room in search of collectibles. If that's how you expect to play then great. I expect you'll get 10+. For the rest of us, that 5.5 hour video looks a lot closer to how we play games.

It does seem a bit odd to me that people are saying they'll get more hours due to collectibles. As if searching the floor for shiny objects is a valuable gameplay experience. Resident Evil 4 came out over a decade ago. Ever since then, 5 and a bit hours became an unacceptable length for single player only action games.

 

[WordsintheWater]

There is a response, but no answer to the issue. And I will stop here, as I see you are going after all the opinions that are not fitting yours in this thread.

I'm having a good discussion with someone who feels differently about games than I do, not going against anyone, we're just talking.

 

[John Bender]

For me, a singleplayer only game that is <10 hours is not worth full price for me.

I'm disappointed with you, Arjen.
You made 2 great goals two days ago and now this ;(

So it's the PS4 version of Ryse?

Wasn't Ryse's campaign 1.5 - 2 hours long?

I know it's been said before, but I see just as much value in a (short) 5-10hr game, as I do in a long 40+hr game that has a 5-10hr story and 30+ hours of open world padding.

Exactly! I'm a single-player gamer. Love the stories, hate multiplayer.
The Order: 1886, TLOU, Uncharted, God of War, Resident Evil, Silent Hill, etc. ... I LOVE THESE GAMES!

 

[Alucrid]

This is a straight up lie. Quality of experience aside, I just watched the thing beginning to end in 5 and a half hours, dude playing died plenty and spent his time too.

So you can watch an entire game on youtube but can't read the fourth sentence of an article?

 

[matrix-cat]

Alien Isolation- It's too long. They should of made it shorter.

The Order- It's too short. Not worth $60.

Can't win.

If only there was some middle ground between 5 and 20 hours...

 

[Sodding_Gamer]

Fair enough. I'm sure that The Order can be finished in a decent afternoon + evening. But like with a good piece of steak, I'dd rather take my time enjoying it instead of trying to clean my plate as fast as possible. The steak might have been expensive, and you could've gotten a heap of grounded meat as well for the same price, but man, nothing beats a nice piece of steak.

This pretty much sums up this game in a nutshell. From what I've seen it looks like a well polished, atmospheric game that you just want to savour and enjoy over a weekend. And I'm cool with that. People who are worried about the length, just trade it in when you're done. Or just get it when it's in the bargain bin in a few months. I don't see the problem here. You don't need to pick it up day 1. And if you have gone to the trouble of watching it on youtube why are you still complaining on here about it?! There is no point for you to play it now lol.

 

[Ashkeloth]

Not a great response, certainly. It just seems like a a combination of question dodging, indirect answers and bad comparisons, but it does raise bigger questions regarding the worth of a game, at least to me. Specifically, how long does a game need to be in order to justify purchasing it at full retail value and does a game being short, even if it's great (not that I know if it is. or isn't), significantly affect its sales?

A lot of games seem unnecessarily padded out, at least in my experience, but if we have people avoiding games because they're not worth the money due to being "too short", then complaining about tacked on multiplayer modes or pointless game extending sections like fetch quests or areas that overstay their welcome seems a little hypocritical.

Ultimately, it's not a huge issue to me, since I was almost certainly not going to pick up the game at release and maybe not at all, but having slogged through most of Dragon Age Inquisition over the last few days with all of its time-wasting fetch quests, seeing a developer needing to justify the length of their game that looks to focus on its strengths grates on me a bit.

If it's too short to justify buying at full price, then waiting a while until its value proposition is more fitting to your circumstances looks like a good idea to me.

 

[big_z]

I would have cancelled my preorder already if I didn't fear best buys incompetence would end up cancelling my bloodborne preorder in the process.

if reviews are good ill look into getting the game when its in bargain bins or on ps+

 

[WordsintheWater]

It does seem a bit odd to me that people are saying they'll get more hours due to collectibles. As if searching the floor for shiny objects is a valuable gameplay experience. Resident Evil 4 came out over a decade ago. Ever since then, 5 and a bit hours became an unacceptable length for single player only action games.

Depends what those shiny objects are, if they add to the lore and story than of course that's a valuable gameplay experience. I believe the game has newspaper clippings and audio logs to listen to. The audio logs in the Batman games definitely had value, hoping it's the same here.

 

[zeromcd73]

I'm A-okay paying full price for a short game if it's a really good one. It's just that 5 hours is a bit too short and considering how much of that is cutscenes makes it worse

 

[WordsintheWater]

I would have cancelled my preorder already if I didn't fear best buys incompetence would end up cancelling my bloodborne preorder in the process.

if reviews are good ill look into getting the game when its in bargain bins or on ps+

haha I wouldn't be surprised at all if that happened, Best Buy has got to be one of the worst places to preorder games, I've had so many issues with them and in store pickup.

 

[SensibleSucker]

So it's the PS4 version of Ryse?

I know it's been said before, but I see just as much value in a (short) 5-10hr game, as I do in a long 40+hr game that has a 5-10hr story and 30+ hours of open world padding.

This is precisely what I was going to mention. A technical showcase, but short single player game.

This isn't a criticism necessarily either. I loved Ryse.

Even the games I really liked this gen, I have found myself wondering "when is this game going to finish? It seems a bit long.". I include Sunset Overdrive in this and GTA V, which was one of the best games I've ever played.

 

[dracula_x]

I don't understand. First, people complain about backlogs all the time and that they have no time for it, now they complain about the short length of games.

 

[masteratt]

There is no trend I hate in gaming at the moment more than this poisonous belief that value comes from the play time.

I guess Ready At Dawn should have made some fetch quests where you go from one end of the level to the other on every level. 20hours gameplay. Day 1. /smh

 

[Visceir]

The short game and ending leads me to believe that they bit off more than they could chew, had to make compromises and had to leave things out of the game.

 

[SensibleSucker]

I'm disappointed with you, Arjen.
You made 2 great goals two days ago and now this ;(


Wasn't Ryse's campaign 1.5 - 2 hours long?


Exactly! I'm a single-player gamer. Love the stories, hate multiplayer.
The Order: 1886, TLOU, Uncharted, God of War, Resident Evil, Silent Hill, etc. ... I LOVE THESE GAMES!

http://howlongtobeat.com/game.php?id=14345

My God, there's a website for everything these days.

 

[danowat]

Even the games I really liked this gen, I have found myself wondering "when is this game going to finish? It seems a bit long.". I include Sunset Overdrive in this and GTA V, which was one of the best games I've ever played.

There is no artistic merit in padding, there is too much of it these days, and it skews peoples perceptions of perceived value based on length.

According to my tracked stats, I have put 20hrs into Ryse, and I haven't finished it yet............

 

[King_Moc]

Depends what those shiny objects are, if they add to the lore and story than of course that's a valuable gameplay experience. I believe the game has newspaper clippings and audio logs to listen to. The audio logs in the Batman games definitely had value, hoping it's the same here.

I've not heard what they are tbh, my head just naturally assumes it'll be similar to the ones in Gears Of War since, well, it plays like Gears. Hopefully it'll be more like TLOU in that respect. That actually felt worthwhile.

 

[TheAssist]

I think games like the Order need a different business model. More like the old Playstation Now (?) model where you pay x amount of money to get access to a game for y amount of time.

20 bucks for 1 week. Enough to play through a 5 hour game. The customer doesnt feel ripped of and the potential playerbase is higher.

If it doesnt have MP and inherent replay value I dont see the point in not waiting for a price drop. Of course some people will buy it full price and Sony counts on that, but it wont be a far spread game in its early months. And word of mouth is always powerfull if your game is good.

So yeah, rental is probably the way to and many people, including me, have done exactly that with console games that were single player only. Right now I could rent that game for 4,90 euros and keep it a week at my local rental store.

The pricepoint for digital rental is up to Sony, but I just assume it would be higher compared to "offline rental". And the lazyness is strong enough in people to accept that.

 

[statham]

So it's the PS4 version of Ryse?

I know it's been said before, but I see just as much value in a (short) 5-10hr game, as I do in a long 40+hr game that has a 5-10hr story and 30+ hours of open world padding.

Ryse atleast has multiplayer mode.

 

[El_Cinefilo]

This pretty much sums up this game in a nutshell. From what I've seen it looks like a well polished, atmospheric game that you just want to savour and enjoy over a weekend. And I'm cool with that. People who are worried about the length, just trade it in when you're done. Or just get it when it's in the bargain bin in a few months. I don't see the problem here. You don't need to pick it up day 1. And if you have gone to the trouble of watching it on youtube why are you still complaining on here about it?! There is no point for you to play it now lol.

Exactly!, For me £45 for a less than six hour game with little replay value is too much, But if people are ok with that then fair play to them, I hope they enjoy it, Me? I'll wait until it's sub £25 in a few months, I've got plenty of other games to be playing until then.

 

[mrklaw]

Fuck it. Just play through it the weekend and trade it in on the Monday. You'll get at least half your money back which can go towards Bloodborne that's what I'll probably end up doing anyway. Unless the games story and atmosphere floors me that much then I'll keep it just as a sort of memento to play every once in a blue moon.

this is my plan of attack. If the game somehow grabs me I'll keep it, if not I'll trade it in sharpish and turn the credit into PSN vouchers towards bloodborne.

 

[danowat]

Ryse atleast has multiplayer mode.

Barely, it's was a tick the box addition for microtransactions.

 

[GHG]

There is no trend I hate in gaming at the moment more than this poisonous belief that value comes from the play time.

I guess Ready At Dawn should have made some fetch quests where you go from one end of the level to the other on every level. 20hours gameplay. Day 1. /smh

Yep.

Then they would make a thread about how the game doesn't value their time though.

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=983846&page=1

Ryse atleast has multiplayer mode.

You've got to be kidding me...

 

[MattKeil]

The original god of war was only 6 hours.....and was one of the best $60 i ever spent.


Edit: nvm they were $50 back then

Adjusted for inflation, $50 in 2005 is about $60 in 2014 money, so your point stands.

 

[kurahador]

I don't understand. First, people complain about backlogs all the time and that they have no time for it, now they complain about the short length of games.

Yeah. Reminds me of the complain about DA:I being too long.
Guess we'll go back to that complain come Witcher 3.

 

[Radec]

Ico
Vanquish
Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance
Metal Gear Solid

All full price. All "short". All great.

Wat.

 

[Stimpack]

I agree with you, and from what I have seen they have been pretty upfront about what kind of game they were making, by saying that the story will drive the gameplay and that it would be a cinematic experience. Of course all that stuff doesn't make it into the marketing of the game and the general public probably doesn't exactly know what to expect.

I can see why people would be upset about a game being "condemned" purely because of the length of the game. I agree that playtime most certainly is not everything, and while I don't think a good game and a long game are mutually exclusive, I don't think a game has to be long to be good. Personally, I think it's the price that has most people up in arms. It'll be a damn shame if the game is good, but the price ends up blacklisting it.

While I've been somewhat harsh with my comments and anti-cinematic views, I'll say that I don't want this type of game to fail, but rather that the developers learn from the experience and market things differently in the future. I felt this way when reading some of the comments in the interview regarding social gaming, movies, and Call of Duty. Those things are all very different, and they're marketed differently. Call of Duty is short on the campaign, but long in the multiplayer. Social games are typically short and casual, but are often free or cheap to buy into, and movies are... well, they're movies. Just as all of these are marketed differently, I feel that "cinematic" games need to be marketed differently as well. Especially considering that the cinematic connotations often denote shorter playthroughs and a lack of replayability.

You just have to know what you're making, where it fits, and how to sell it. But anyway, I'm getting long in the tooth over a game that I've neither played nor seen much of outside of trailers. That's NeoGAF for you, I guess.

 

[CanUKlehead]

What I don't understand is (and really not being snarky) if you're interested in a single player game enough--any of them--but feel like the value isn't there because of the play time, why not just rent it, or wait til it drops in price?

That's my plan. It may be anecdotal, but this is all research for me, and my conclusion is basically No Day One Buy, especially due to my backlog.

What's the harm in waiting if you don't feel like it's worth paying full price for? Just let it go, no?