More_Badass
Member
This. There's a distinct visual difference between the grounded realism of BF and the heightened adventure realism of Uncharted. In the colors and lighting and level designs
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"Realistic" Current-Gen Console Graphics Have Finally Stopped Impressing Me
- Thread starter HotHamBoy
- Start date
MoogleMan
Member
I do wish people would stop posting opinion as fact...
SixMachine
Member
I think I agree too, I like looking at extremely stylized graphics rather than ones that do try to be more grounded. I think games like Uncharted and Horizon are really impressive, there is a lot of work in there, but something like Cuphead just brings a smile to my face because it's just so creative and out of the ordinary (I know it's based on 1930's cartoons, but it's just so unique to look at these days).
Various Artists
Banned
Yeah I thought this when I saw Soul Calibur on Dreamcast. It was flawed thinking then and still is now.
Papo Swing
Member
Dishonored is a very good example of stylized realism. Bioschock too.
I think I prefer that style than when they go with full realism.
I think I prefer that style than when they go with full realism.
Bill R Boggess
Member
Uh, yes, art style, which directly influences and relates to aesthetics.
And that article you posted is a brief interview with somebody working on character models.
Nothing in that article refutes my point in regards to the stylistic choices of the game itself.
If the goal was 1:1 photo-realism, why did they employ artistic flourishes such as painting textures and oversaturation, both of which are antithetical to making something look realistic?
Lovely Salsa
Banned
Once we reach this kind of graphics, I'll stop caring as it will be perfect for me
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
There eventually comes a point where it stops mattering unless there is a radical evolution a la the change from 2D sprites to 3D polygons.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
This is still one of the only games that at times genuinely does a great job of emulating the look of CGI near constantly.I still think The Order 1886 is one of the best looking games on PS4
I seriously wish ready at dawn will continue to push their engine tech since its an absolute marvel
What he's saying applies to everything in their workflow tho. ND as a studio has made their name on making games look more like films. And everything about their new tech reflects that. The stylization has definitely been toned down a great degree and will be even more toned down in TLOU2.
eyeball_kid
Member
I think for me, increased realism of graphics has stopped having an impact on me if there's not also an increased complexity in the gameplay. I first noticed this with Alyx back in Half-Life 2. The model was impressive for the time, as was the character animation, but it was all scripted. It felt like being in the middle of a Disneyworld ride. Seeing the almost lifelike character models of the current gen is impressive, but they look like creepy mannequins because AI hasn't advanced in line with graphical improvements.
There are times when increased realism makes sense and really does impress, such as racing games, but most of the time I feel like the effort is wasted. I'm much more impressed by great art direction and great style, rather than obsession with replicating reality.
There are times when increased realism makes sense and really does impress, such as racing games, but most of the time I feel like the effort is wasted. I'm much more impressed by great art direction and great style, rather than obsession with replicating reality.
Once we reach this kind of graphics, I'll stop caring as it will be perfect for me
I mean, that shit was playable, so we reached it, more or less.
Bill R Boggess
Member
Firstly, you assume that film is aesthetically analogous with reality yet I can show you hundreds of examples that are not.
Many films look nothing like our mundane, day-to-day reality, even when shot as live action endeavors.
And regardless, you still havenÂ’t answered my question:
If the goal is full, unfettered, 1:1 realism, why are they employing techniques to purposely make the game seem less realistic?
Do you honestly believe that the concerted oversaturation of primary colors coupled with painted textures that give the game a “painted” look is accidental?
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Great displays of realism ARE a result of great art direction.
I never said that they were going for a grounded film, rather the look of an film. Uncharted 4 is made with the idea that it's supposed to look like an adventure film. And yes that includes the color tones. Which in adventure films often have the same types of OTT environments that you see in their games right down to the use of fog:
If they had the power to push it further they absolutely would.
WickedLaharl
Member
I remember reading the diminishing returns argument a decade ago and graphics still haven't come close.
Telephone Man
Member
Agreed. The environments in GT Sport's beta feel dead.
It was especially noticable in segments where there were plenty of trees, with no sense of breeze in sight. Everything was unnaturally still.
eyeball_kid
Member
There is obviously art direction and great skill in producing photorealistic assets, but it's more a result of great technical direction.
By great art direction, I meant that there is a tone and a viewpoint of the game on display that is realized through the art itself, as is done in film.
Bill R Boggess
Member
On this we agree entirely.
The Order looks like a high-end CG film.
Still impressive after three years.
dynamitejim
Member
I still think The Order 1886 is one of the best looking games on PS4
I seriously wish ready at dawn will continue to push their engine tech since its an absolute marvel
Not only is the fidelity amazing, but the overall quality is incredibly consistent. That's something other games really don't get.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
The prettiest looking games this gen ALL do this so there's no need to make the distinction.
It's consistency is mainly because the game is so incredibly controlled and linear. Compared to something like the market section in UC4 let alone the games that're open world.
Bill R Boggess
Member
Fair enough, but something looking filmic can mean many, many things.
When we speak of realism, my metric is that we have two distinct categories:
Games that are striving for the grounded photo-realism of something like Drive Club and the more stylistic realism in a game like Uncharted 4 or Horizon: Zero Dawn.
You can claim both are striving for realism in the broadest sense but I think there is a protracted difference between a game that wants to emulate reality and a game that skews towards reality but also dabbles with artistic flourishes to separate it from absolute photo-realism.
Bill R Boggess
Member
Cuphead is very impressive visually, regardless of personal preferences.
It's amazing that they were able to so perfectly emulate the look of old cartoons to such an extent that I doubt most people would know it was a videogame if you didn't tell them.
Bill R Boggess
Member
Not to take anything away from how great Cuphead looks, but I can't imagine coming away from Horizon in anything but awe.
The first time I played it, moving through the tall grass as the sun was setting, I couldn't believe this was something playable.
eyeball_kid
Member
Well, that's just not true at all. MGSV's graphics offer no viewpoint, set tone, or provide emotional perspective, nor does GTS, or GTA5, or Killzone Shadowfall, or...I could go on. The number of realistic-graphics titles which do are few and far between -- BF1, Horizon, Driveclub, and a maybe few others.
I'm always impressed by great tech. Maybe you just don't care anymore about technical details. That's a okay. But a lot of people still do care and love to see things pushing forward inch by inch.
Cuphead is great, but I have been stunned plenty of times. Hell, even Rime on PC is blowing my mind a little. Horizon is straight love even with a few flaws here and there.
Cuphead is great, but I have been stunned plenty of times. Hell, even Rime on PC is blowing my mind a little. Horizon is straight love even with a few flaws here and there.
dragonzdogma
Member
All you need (which is hard and expensive) is a KS8000 TV , PS4 pro and Final Fantasy with HDR enabled, go around duscae and Believe again.
Golgo 13
The Man With The Golden Dong
Are KS8000's hard to find or something? And are they demonstrably better than similarly priced alternatives?
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
But then we're getting back to art direction again. Realistic is something included in the art direction. Every game starts with a couple of influences. And UC4 specifically wears it's adventure film influences on it's sleeve with it's visuals since they have the tech, budget, and artists to support that.
MGSV and GTAV aren't the prettiest looking games this gen and both have a bunch of influences that they wear on their sleeve in their art design. Like hte more realistic art design of MGSV absolutely sets the tone that it's a darker, grounded, grittier tale in the context of the series, (despite the story being dogshit):
GTAV too, here's what they were going for:
Now here's GTAV:
you absolutely cannot argue that these games don't set a tone with their visuals. You can dislike the games but the visuals are incredibly purposeful.
pretty done
Member
I think people flocked to KS8000 and X800D because they're good for the price but more importantly they both have pretty low input lag.
vanDoughnut
Member
You value "unique and well executed aesthetics" but can't appreciate Uncharted: the Lost Legacy.
Smh that's unique and well executed aesthetics: the game. Uncharted the series, in general is.
I appreciate all types of visuals and styles, definitely pixel art. Man how cool would Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite look if Capcom had their act together and just made some top tier pixel art?
But there's lot to appreciate in visuals that are considered more "realistic" as well. I just don't like the notion that games that aren't completely stylized are somehow considered inferior or lacking in art style; or won't hold up (just give it time I tell ya!).
Smh that's unique and well executed aesthetics: the game. Uncharted the series, in general is.
These games will be surpassed but they're still gonna hold up and be appreciated lol
I appreciate all types of visuals and styles, definitely pixel art. Man how cool would Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite look if Capcom had their act together and just made some top tier pixel art?
But there's lot to appreciate in visuals that are considered more "realistic" as well. I just don't like the notion that games that aren't completely stylized are somehow considered inferior or lacking in art style; or won't hold up (just give it time I tell ya!).
Bill R Boggess
Member
You act as if art direction and aesthetics arenÂ’t intrinsically linked. The aesthetics of any game will be largely determined by the art style and clearly, Uncharted 4 is opting for something different than stark, photo-realism.
If they wanted the game to look more like actual reality they would tone down the colors and do away with the painted textures. They clearly wanted their game to have a CG-like appearance, which is why they utilized such vibrant colors and other flourishes to distinguish the visuals.
IÂ’ll give you an older example:
Conan by THQ uses a form of realism but blends that aesthetic with a more painterly visualization to emulate the work of artist Frank Frazetta.
So yes, Conan is striving for realistic proportions but it is also doing so while implementing artistic flourishes that keep it from being an attempt at true photorealism. (Which wasnÂ’t doable regardless given the technology at the time)
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
How many times does it have to be stated that their intention isn't mundane photorealism but rather the explicit photorealistic look of an adventure film? That was their intent. That's what they strived for. And part of looking like a film is making sure the characters look much more like actual people instead of heavily stylized. Thus, they went much farther away from the direction of older UC games and aimed for something much more realistic.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
We have both. And no, the gap isn't getting smaller. There are a metric fuckton of ways visuals can improve.
hydragonwarrior
Member
Realistic is still awesome for backgrounds but we're still pretty far away from perfecting realistic faces. Maybe three gens?
Yeah Horizon is gorgeous but I'm one of those people that also takes framerate into account when it comes to the technical aspects. And while Horizon does a good job with 30fps, it doesn't floor me as something like it running 120fps would.
Nah. I just played through Uncharted Lost Legacy on my original PS4 and still thought it looked insane, and that's after playing PC games with my 1070.
What a lot of people are calling "realistic" though... isn't. It's just the look of Hollywood movies. Games like Uncharted and most big shooters have very intentional visual styles with their colors and effects, as has been shown off by people in this thread. I honestly don't think we have enough games with lighting, effects, and colors presented with a "natural" or "true-to-life" tone. Mostly you see it in simulators like Gran Turismo because they actually are going for realism. MGSV might be the biggest example of a mainstream action game with lighting closer to natural realism.
What people are "tired of" isn't a focus on realism, it's a focus on pushing more and more advanced technical effects and graphics systems until we can reach photorealism. I think it's good that developers are still trying to push towards it, and I think once we actually get there -- once we actually get to a point where any small indie dev can make photo-real graphics, people might care about it less.
What a lot of people are calling "realistic" though... isn't. It's just the look of Hollywood movies. Games like Uncharted and most big shooters have very intentional visual styles with their colors and effects, as has been shown off by people in this thread. I honestly don't think we have enough games with lighting, effects, and colors presented with a "natural" or "true-to-life" tone. Mostly you see it in simulators like Gran Turismo because they actually are going for realism. MGSV might be the biggest example of a mainstream action game with lighting closer to natural realism.
What people are "tired of" isn't a focus on realism, it's a focus on pushing more and more advanced technical effects and graphics systems until we can reach photorealism. I think it's good that developers are still trying to push towards it, and I think once we actually get there -- once we actually get to a point where any small indie dev can make photo-real graphics, people might care about it less.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Small indie devs can make photorealistic graphics if they have the time, talent, and budget.
The wish to move forward and push the envelope is what drives progress. There are very creative people who work hard to develop new technologies and keep making things more realistic because it is something they want to do.
The idea that graphics will ever be 'good enough' and that the focus should be on other things is kind of a disservice to people who actually put the time and effort into this.
What's stopping me from saying "all the games out right now cover all my gameplay wants and needs. it's time to have prettier games instead of trying to alter gameplay any further than what's already available."
PleaseDontBanMe
Banned
Wait.... We can't even play games maxed out in 4k on a damn 1080ti?I tried putting Hellblade at full settings to on 4k to see if my 1080 Ti could run it.
It couldnt and stuttered badly, but jesus christ it looked amazing
Personally I'm still impressed by how wow visuals can get. I havnt played TLL yet but was impressed with UC4. Battlefield less so - muddy looking game. Art direction is counting for a lot more as the sheer polygons alone fail to impress.
"Realistic" graphics never have impressed me and still don't today. I'm not about realism in my videogames. I would rather a game be realistic with a flair like OW. Realistic human proportioms with stylized gear and a bright pallet. I much prefer something like BotW or Mario Odessey over anything considered realistic.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Depends on the game.
Something games don't get right a lot of the time is characters' eyes, either. Wolfenstein: The New Order nailed this perfectly.
Someone put a lot of work into BJ's eyes. (and every other character's as well, of course) But BJ's stand out spectacularly. In the above screenshot, you can see the unfocused nature BJ is currently in, even without any facial animation present since it's a still image, in the actual game the sound design during this scene also helps ram in the point that he's not focused on what's currently happening at all.
In this screenshot, you can see the pain, fear, and regret present in his eyes and his facial expression.
Wolfenstein decidedly goes for the "realistic" style, but doesn't go all the way in that regard because it isn't really trying to be photo realistic. It's not at the cutting edge of photo realism, but the animation of the characters as well as the work people put into modeling the faces and eyes of these characters is nothing short of amazing.
I'll throw in a screenshot of a character other than BJ for comparison as well:
Someone put a lot of work into BJ's eyes. (and every other character's as well, of course) But BJ's stand out spectacularly. In the above screenshot, you can see the unfocused nature BJ is currently in, even without any facial animation present since it's a still image, in the actual game the sound design during this scene also helps ram in the point that he's not focused on what's currently happening at all.
In this screenshot, you can see the pain, fear, and regret present in his eyes and his facial expression.
Wolfenstein decidedly goes for the "realistic" style, but doesn't go all the way in that regard because it isn't really trying to be photo realistic. It's not at the cutting edge of photo realism, but the animation of the characters as well as the work people put into modeling the faces and eyes of these characters is nothing short of amazing.
I'll throw in a screenshot of a character other than BJ for comparison as well:
No. True 4k is EXTREMELY taxing. A lot of people don't realize just how much more horsepower you need to actually run high level graphics at that resolution.
It's the reason why PS4 Pro can really only do fancy 4k upscaling and I'm not all that hype about the Xbox One X either.
Just_myles
Member
I prefer attention to detail(character texturing and world architecture). As long as I have that i'm good.