Cymbal Head
Banned
How is it not fan service? The moment only lands properly if you already a) know what the Millennium Falcon is and b) have at least some awareness of its iconic status.
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Red Letter Media - The Star Wars Awakens Review
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How is it not fan service? The moment only lands properly if you already a) know what the Millennium Falcon is and b) have at least some awareness of its iconic status.
Not necessarily, considering later on in the movie after they follow up with the whole "This is the Millennium Falcon?! You're General Solo!" bit which actually brings up the fact that the Falcon is a pretty iconic ship (that also looks like a hunk of junk).
Plus, seriously, it's the seventh Star Wars movie - are we not allowed to have referential jokes? Is it possible to have a moment that's both good and have a bit of fan-service?
From an objective standpoint, I really don't see how one can argue that either TPM or AotC are better or equal films.
Speaking of fan service.. out of anything anyone has ever done in the SW universe, I don't think there's a worse offender than showing Yoda flip around in CGI with a lightsaber. THAT is pandering.
It's definitely fan service (just the good kind that works well), but using the Falcon in the way they did felt like it served a purpose instead of just being included for the sake of doing so. It feels right in the film. It serves the purposes of advancing the story, providing character development for the main characters (ie Rey's force powers), and reintroducing Han Solo back into Star Wars.
Tom Nook Sawyer
Member
It really was. It annoys me because they chose some really dumb complaints (if you can even call them that) instead of legitimate problems the movie had.
I guess MIke just really did like it too much for it to be a good Plinkett review.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
The problem isn't quite about the reference in particular (although I still think it stands out as particularly brash), it's about the over-accumulation of them in the aggregate by the end of the movie.
I don't mind the Millennium Falcon being in the movie but I think part of me wishes it was handled just a little more "sparingly" for lack of a better word.
It's hard not to look back at how it's inclusion was just kind of... convenient I suppose? For one thing; why is it so conveniently located on the planet of our protagonist? Plinkett already brings up how it doesn't really make much sense for the First Order to do a bombing run on Jakku when they really want to recover BB-8. Scout units/ships would make sense to send but not so much combat ships. It creates a really contrived reason for the Millennium Falcon to come back into the picture and have an action sequence considering Rey and Finn don't require that additional urgency to leave the planet - the former already wants to deliver BB-8 to the Resistance and the latter already wants to get far away from the First Order. Also the Millennium Falcon being introduced so early creates kind of a uh, clumsy way to introduce the fact that Kylo Ren is Solo's kid, though I suppose you could argue they wanted to get that one out of the way quick since it's the most obvious Star Wars "twist" they could reuse.
I think it would have been much more "earned" if, once Rey and Finn met up with Han in their quest to get to the Resistance, the Millennium Falcon is only mentioned in passing conversation - much like how Luke questioned Obi-Wan about the Clone Wars and being a Jedi etc., Rey/Finn could be talking about how Han is the legendary pilot who flew the Millennium Falcon and fought alongside Luke. Han could talk about how he lost the ship or whatever and it'd introduce a chekhov's gun. Newcomers to the series would be informed about how that might be a big deal moving forward and veterans would probably feel a slight sense of nostalgia but also a bit of a disheartening feeling knowing how the Star Wars universe has moved on with the iconography... until the third act assault on the Starkiller Base, when they mention they need a ship to break the defenses, and when the Resistance might reveal that they succeeded in recovering the Falcon - maybe something Leia had the Resistance do as a sign of affection to show that she still really cares about Han. The newcomers can get excited about that one object mentioned in passing finally getting payoff and the fans get excited to finally see that awesome ship get brought back in a purposeful capacity and a potentially cool action sequence somewhere in there. One last rodeo, before Han inevitably kicks it.
I think I would have liked that just a little more than what we got, really.
It's hard not to look back at how it's inclusion was just kind of... convenient I suppose? For one thing; why is it so conveniently located on the planet of our protagonist? Plinkett already brings up how it doesn't really make much sense for the First Order to do a bombing run on Jakku when they really want to recover BB-8. Scout units/ships would make sense to send but not so much combat ships. It creates a really contrived reason for the Millennium Falcon to come back into the picture and have an action sequence considering Rey and Finn don't require that additional urgency to leave the planet - the former already wants to deliver BB-8 to the Resistance and the latter already wants to get far away from the First Order. Also the Millennium Falcon being introduced so early creates kind of a uh, clumsy way to introduce the fact that Kylo Ren is Solo's kid, though I suppose you could argue they wanted to get that one out of the way quick since it's the most obvious Star Wars "twist" they could reuse.
I think it would have been much more "earned" if, once Rey and Finn met up with Han in their quest to get to the Resistance, the Millennium Falcon is only mentioned in passing conversation - much like how Luke questioned Obi-Wan about the Clone Wars and being a Jedi etc., Rey/Finn could be talking about how Han is the legendary pilot who flew the Millennium Falcon and fought alongside Luke. Han could talk about how he lost the ship or whatever and it'd introduce a chekhov's gun. Newcomers to the series would be informed about how that might be a big deal moving forward and veterans would probably feel a slight sense of nostalgia but also a bit of a disheartening feeling knowing how the Star Wars universe has moved on with the iconography... until the third act assault on the Starkiller Base, when they mention they need a ship to break the defenses, and when the Resistance might reveal that they succeeded in recovering the Falcon - maybe something Leia had the Resistance do as a sign of affection to show that she still really cares about Han. The newcomers can get excited about that one object mentioned in passing finally getting payoff and the fans get excited to finally see that awesome ship get brought back in a purposeful capacity and a potentially cool action sequence somewhere in there. One last rodeo, before Han inevitably kicks it.
I think I would have liked that just a little more than what we got, really.
Agreed. I think that fan service should have some sort of quality attached to it.. and the Falcon stuff definitely does. Of all fan service/pandering examples from the TFA, this is one that really works in a meaningful way for both the film and the franchise, IMO.
I don't know. I feel like just about any previous material they included would have been shredded. I can't even think of one that really stands out as terrible. The trash compactor one worked particularly well for me, even if that scene was a little too jokey.. and combined with Phasma's uselessness, I definitely think it could have been reworked.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
I finally watched it, didn't hate it but it was quite weak as a critique certainly. The part about sex was a head scratcher although the montage of "sexual moments in the original trilogy" was hilarious.
Watching the review it's clear he doesn't hate it at all really.
I mean, even Plinkett admits in-character that he enjoyed it and that the way the movie employs throwbacks and George Lucas' whole thing about poetry actually works, but that it works only for this movie.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I like this.
While it's inevitable that we'll have these kind of returning elements given the story and setting, I think this is probably right. I thought the Falcon reveal was actually the best handled of the returning character/ship reveals - Rey dismissing it as "garbage" was so apt given how everyone else perceived it. The dumbest callbacks in the film were Finn picking up the floating ball thing and holding it up to the camera for a second, and bumping the holographic game on for another. Those were blatant, "hey guys remember this?!" moments. Folding the Falcon into the story made sense given the story they had to tell.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Same issue with the repeating plot points, really. None of them are individually a problem, but it's too much in aggregate. I'd be more inclined to interpret all the callbacks and recycled elements more favorably if this wasn't coming from the man who brought us Star Trek Into Darkness.
heliosRAzi
Banned
The Falcon should have been destroyed.
Out with the old, in with the new.
Out with the old, in with the new.
yes and the new should have been called the Centurion hawk!! *wink*
orthodoxy1095
Banned
HA, I had totally forgotten about that sequence. That was definitely a nudge, nudge nostalgia scene.
Agreed with this as well.
heliosRAzi
Banned
No, the Epoch Eagle.
Adam_Vania
Banned
then they reveal a half-built Millennium Falcon 2!
worked for Return of the Jedi's second Death Star. callbacks/nostalgia/"laziness" has pretty much always been a part of Star Wars
Monocle
Member
Eh.
The MF looks cools when it flies through narrow gaps. That's my reason for keeping it around, and I say it's a good one!
The one that had all it's innards picked apart by scavengers?
Feels a lot like I've walked into an opposite universe.
I especially don't get the AotC comparisons. TFA doesn't actually bore you to tears unlike AotC's middle two hours.
This is just so surreal
It mightn't have bored you, but I was well finished with the film by the 3/4ths mark. Complete recycled mess of a film IMO.
I was very disappointed in TFA. Complete waste of my time.
Also the ridiculous contrivance of it all. How it got on Jakku in the first place. how quickly and conveniently Han found it in the vastness of space. I mean how long were they out of Jakku space 10 minutes before Han found the Falcon on "his scanners?" Was he looking for it in perpetuity? Did he just happened to be traveling through that system? So dumb
Yeah. They could have just used the force.
I felt like it went incredibly hard and dense on the fanservice and recycled tropes because it was setting up episode 8 to be the proper sequel (the one where shit will really happen) while proving that this, episode 7, was a true return to the series, trying to move past the general nightmare of episode 1-3. TFA felt like a natural flow back into Star Wars to me - although of course I have reservations about it (some of Rey/Fin's forced dialogue was horrible and the 'map battle plan' scene is heinously badly edited, yadda).
I understand the criticisms and understand your viewpoint. I love TFA but it's nowhere near perfect. But comparing it poorly to Episode 1 and 2 seems absolutely batshit crazy to me.
Lifejumper
Member
JJ had the toughest job of them all. The next directors have a solid foundation to work with. You dont choose Rian Johnson when you want a 'safe' movie.
Agreed. And holy shit I didn't know Rian was on the next one. Now I'm legit excited.
It should have blown up with all the original cast in it
I too am dissapointed in TFA. as a movie alone it is really good.
But unfortunately it's part Seven of a series, and I was unable to suspend my disbelief at "The same stuff is happening 30 years later, essentially the exact same stuff is happening to a different character in the exact same setting"
It felt like a bad anime sequel. Shouldve been a full reboot.
But unfortunately it's part Seven of a series, and I was unable to suspend my disbelief at "The same stuff is happening 30 years later, essentially the exact same stuff is happening to a different character in the exact same setting"
It felt like a bad anime sequel. Shouldve been a full reboot.
Its just bad in different ways. I'd quite happily watch intergalactic politics and great light sabre duels and pod racing of 1 and 2 than sit through he fan service, dullness and parody humour of TFA.
There is no doubt the acting from the main characters was better in TFA, but that it in my opinion.
Each to their own I suppose.
Harlock
Member
A bit too long and some unnecessary parts, but good review. The hugging thing remind the hover hand meme. So afraid of doing something more. Hugging was the hover hand in TFA.
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/hover-hand
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/hover-hand
So I finished it after watching it bit by bit over the week.
It had a lot of good segments and some jokes that made me laugh, but it definitely pales in comparison to the trilogy reviews and won't nearly be as rewatchable. I see a lot of people complaining that it takes so long to get to the review, but his segment on what has happened with Star Wars since Disney bought it was entertaining. He did go on way too long about the PT ring theory. He spends so much time simply explaining what it is, and even afterwards it doesn't feel like it merits much critique. I don't know why he wasted so much time with it.
As for TFA review, I think Plinkett can have entertaining reviews for good movies. I liked his Star Trek (The Star Trek) review, and Titanic. I think he completely missed the point about diversity though. He had a basic idea: TFA's diverse cast is due to producers trying to make the movie more inclusive not for any artistic or personal desire, but to make Star Wars appeal to more demographics in order to make money. I feel that is definitely true in part. I mean the white male audience is already sold on a new Star Wars with the words "Star Wars." For women and minorities, there's nothing there on the surface level that's enticing. But if with a black man and a woman in major roles, that at least garners some interest in those demographics. White guys don't care because STAR WARS THERE'S A NEW STAR WARS.
As for kids not caring, they may not express it, but subconsciously they do. I thought his reasoning using the ad of a black kid playing with Obi Wan was pretty ridiculous. It was an advertisement. And why do they think they cast a black kid? Probably because they wanted black people to buy their toys. This sounds cynical, but every element of advertising is calculated and not "just cuz."
I don't get what his overall point was. I mean he says the film incorporates diverse characters into the story effectively and says there is no problems with diversity in films as a whole. Was it that it was too cynical? Pointless? He might not have thought it benefited the film, but it certainly didn't harm it.
As for the whole SEX thing... I do think honestly it's a bit cliche to have the two leads fall in love. Although Luke showed some attraction to Leia in the first movie (ew) as did Han, it wasn't a major part of the first film at all. No one rides off into the sunset with the girl or is even hinted at starting a relationship. Since the sequel trilogy is actually planned out as a trilogy opposed to the sacred OT, we will probably understand why they didn't go with the direction of Rey and Finn falling in love once we know more about their story arcs. I mean even Luke did not end up with anybody in the entire trilogy. He had hero's journey things to do. Rey looks like she will follow a similar path. I can see Finn or Poe having a romantic subplot in the future (no, not with each other), but Rey is going to do some jedi shit like training in the first jedi temple or fusing with the force or something ridiculous.
It had a lot of good segments and some jokes that made me laugh, but it definitely pales in comparison to the trilogy reviews and won't nearly be as rewatchable. I see a lot of people complaining that it takes so long to get to the review, but his segment on what has happened with Star Wars since Disney bought it was entertaining. He did go on way too long about the PT ring theory. He spends so much time simply explaining what it is, and even afterwards it doesn't feel like it merits much critique. I don't know why he wasted so much time with it.
As for TFA review, I think Plinkett can have entertaining reviews for good movies. I liked his Star Trek (The Star Trek) review, and Titanic. I think he completely missed the point about diversity though. He had a basic idea: TFA's diverse cast is due to producers trying to make the movie more inclusive not for any artistic or personal desire, but to make Star Wars appeal to more demographics in order to make money. I feel that is definitely true in part. I mean the white male audience is already sold on a new Star Wars with the words "Star Wars." For women and minorities, there's nothing there on the surface level that's enticing. But if with a black man and a woman in major roles, that at least garners some interest in those demographics. White guys don't care because STAR WARS THERE'S A NEW STAR WARS.
As for kids not caring, they may not express it, but subconsciously they do. I thought his reasoning using the ad of a black kid playing with Obi Wan was pretty ridiculous. It was an advertisement. And why do they think they cast a black kid? Probably because they wanted black people to buy their toys. This sounds cynical, but every element of advertising is calculated and not "just cuz."
I don't get what his overall point was. I mean he says the film incorporates diverse characters into the story effectively and says there is no problems with diversity in films as a whole. Was it that it was too cynical? Pointless? He might not have thought it benefited the film, but it certainly didn't harm it.
As for the whole SEX thing... I do think honestly it's a bit cliche to have the two leads fall in love. Although Luke showed some attraction to Leia in the first movie (ew) as did Han, it wasn't a major part of the first film at all. No one rides off into the sunset with the girl or is even hinted at starting a relationship. Since the sequel trilogy is actually planned out as a trilogy opposed to the sacred OT, we will probably understand why they didn't go with the direction of Rey and Finn falling in love once we know more about their story arcs. I mean even Luke did not end up with anybody in the entire trilogy. He had hero's journey things to do. Rey looks like she will follow a similar path. I can see Finn or Poe having a romantic subplot in the future (no, not with each other), but Rey is going to do some jedi shit like training in the first jedi temple or fusing with the force or something ridiculous.
the problem is that anything new is poisoned by the immersion breaking insincerity of the world they take part in. if you have some nice ideas in your reference obsessed fan fiction, those ideas are going to be ultimately meaningless.
that hulk quote is such a perfect one sentence summary of all its core problems: it's not a star wars movie, it's a movie about star wars.
was properly looking forward to plinkett's review because while the prequels were just shit films, the TFA is a far more insidious expose of all the nostalgia/pop culture mining dead ends that modern filmmaking has taken. shame he missed an open goal.
No, I'm pretty sure it's a Star Wars movie, champ
Pop culture mining? TFA is good and the prequels are shit. Who gives a damn about reasons? Why not judge by the quality of the actual movie?
FlashbladeGAF
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