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Reddit AMA with Xbox One dev
- Thread starter nhlducks35
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They did mention the offline playability included digital downloads, and they didn't say the family sharing plan was removed specific to discs.
Yes, why would they agree to it? My theory is that, they didn't have to agree with such a plan anyway, as the plan was not what they are trying to make it look like. The plan wasn't implementable, that's why they also "removed" it from digital downloads. My theory was and still is, that this plan never existed in the form that it actually didn't
Neuromancer
Member
You can, but this is a thread about a 'Reddit AMA with Xbox One dev'. As the title suggests.
There's going to be a lot of discussion about the consoles and other industry stuff coming up as we get closer to launch, and its not always going to be pretty. If you want to stay out of it that's pretty easy to do.
Wickerbasket
Member
I've been in the Killer Instinct thread, even commented about how I thought it looked awesome, and I agree that Xbox One game threads should be devoid of the general xbox hate but you can't expect people in this thread to allow people to post lies.
If people post bullshit then they're going to get call out for it.
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
CBOAT has been wrong before, Arron Greenburg, Major Nelson, and this Developer have confirmed it wasn't a one hour demo, and the One Hour demo itself does not fit the description Microsoft gave on Family Sharing.
AND Microsoft already said that Family Sharing might return, the odds are stacked in favor of it NOT being a One Hour demo, I'm beliving Family Sharing was between 10 people, 2 at max. The proof all leads to that conclusion.
Yep. He didn't even mention any benefits himself, even though he had the chance in being anonymous.
Whiteshirt
Member
The problem is reversing the DRM doesn't change the fact that they tried to fuck you only a few weeks ago and only changed their policy because their console was preordering like shit compared to the PS4.
Its no surprise people are so against the Xbox One and are very wary of Microsoft's actions at this point. If a political party announces some policy to fuck workers by giving power to the employer then does a 180 because everyone hates it, do you automatically forgive and forget? No you don't because you know that they planned and are very willing to implement these changes.
Manmademan
Member
It's easy to say anything about a feature when you're no longer obligated to deliver it.
Lol at the kinect cost (in no way it's something like 200-300$)
Here's what UBM TechInsights estimated for Kinect 1.
http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1257872
And that was 3 years before the XBox One launch.
Here's what UBM TechInsights estimated for Kinect 1.
http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1257872
And that was 3 years before the XBox One launch.
This is what happens when people in the gaming industry don't pretend to be politicians.
If you admit your loses along with your strengths, people can appreciate the system much more. "Yeah, we aren't as powerful as the PS4, but we think we've reached a solid level, tons of RAM for developers, DX11, and Kinect. We'll have a different experience, but comparable."
-MD-
Member
Ouch.
Manmademan
Member
there's no way the BOM is anywhere close to the XboxONE. but we don't know what MS spent on R&D for it. R&D for the One is probably pretty low, since they were using pre-existing designs from AMD, rather than something designed from the ground up.
Yes, why would they agree to it? My theory is that, they didn't have to agree with such a plan anyway, as the plan was not what they are trying to make it look like. The plan wasn't implementable, that's why they also "removed" it from digital downloads. My theory was and still is, that this plan never existed in the form that it actually didn't
Sorry if I wasn't clear before, I didn't think anything for digital was announced before the 180. when they announced the family plan and said it was specific to discs I assumed that it was never intended for digital downloads.
Yep i do get that but i'd rather look at it like they told us their policies, gamers didn't want those policies so they listened and changed them, i know theres probably only a small amount of truth in that but its a 'positive' way of looking at it you know?.
Its just going to be such an exciting time for us gamers in the coming months and it will be a shame if there is constant negativity around.
EDIT: Having said that, people can moan as much as they want about Kinect, i'm right there with you! he he.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
What proofs besides PR talk? They just said "full games", trials are full games. They never said you would be able to play a game to start to finish. Only when DRM was discarded they said it was not time limited. Maybe it wasn't time limited, maybe you would be allowed to play until you reached certain point...so hey, is not time limited!!
The continuous ambiguous messaging from PR people indicates that consumers and posters here were just wishful thinking the best case scenarios (10 free games!) and MS was interested to not wake up people to the reality.
Why they never showed in full detail how it worked? Why they didn't published a video showcasing such an amazing feature if it worked like you people keep thinking? Why publishers would agree to such thing just to stop second hand sales?
Adding to these questions we had leaks from trusted sources that it was time limited. People should just accept the reality, DRM or not it never existed, it wasn't logical seeing how the industry worked from the las 20 years and it never made any sense that a company were so adamant to destroy physical copies and second hand market to improve benefits and start giving away 10 free games.
Absolute top comment there.
The DRM was always only part of the problem.
Kinect is still required and unnecessarily driving up the cost.
Your comment is laughable.
The specs have been known before the reveals, this is the first time they admit it (they've been lying from the getgo on almost everything), and they're continuing to lie about the family plan to save face.
WrenchNinja
Member
There is very little he has been wrong about. These others are microsoft execs, employees and pr people who have obsfucated and lied their way through this whole debacle. Why should I believe anything they say after they already scrapped it? They can say anything they want.
You can believe what you want, its hard to take you seriously after all of the damage control you've been doing defending online drm since the adam orth incident, which was before the family share plan was even mentioned.
That's not a good indicator for the cost of the new Kinect. Kinect 1 was built to be cheap. they used a completely different technology and reportedly removed a chip to save costs. The new Kinect uses the time-of-flight approach and special hardware (I believe at least the audio chip is built with Kinect in mind).
Never, ever, underestimate human stupidity.
Ok, seriously, their massive "failure" to explain it properly could be attributed to their incredibly incompetence or that it wasn't that great to begin with.
Under normal circumstances, the first one is really, really hard to believe, but plausible under the massive disaster that this console revelation was. On the other hand, the second one seems far more simple and believable. Specially, considering MS's behavior during the time. I mean, it's easy to see MS wanting to keep the final terms as ambiguous as possible since the speculation would help the X1 far more than having the potentially "meh" feature fully exposed.
This is another possibility. Interesting enough, I wouldn't be surprised if the 180 thingy was cemented when several key publishers refused to participate on it.
Fuck, someone beat me... and in a waaaay better way.
DAMN YOU hesido!
Yeah i agree fully, its almost a deal breaker for me to be honest, i simply don't agree with having it forced on us. I don't think Microsoft helped themselves by having it a seperate device that plugs in, if it was built into the system then people would just have to accept it.
Vestal
Gold Member
this remains to be seen. I can see why it was removed due to what happened since they have to re-engineer how the Xbone deals with games on an OS level.They did mention the offline playability included digital downloads, and they didn't say the family sharing plan was removed specific to discs.
Yes, why would they agree to it? My theory is that, they didn't have to agree with such a plan anyway, as the plan was not what they are trying to make it look like. The plan wasn't implementable, that's why they also "removed" it from digital downloads. My theory was and still is, that this plan never existed in the form that it actually didn't
let me explain, originally all games would be treated as 1 type since physical games were just there to install the game. So they never really had to deal with maintaining two separate environments for games within the OS. With the change that occurred you now have to go back and rewrite how you classify and handle games from an OS level.
Add to that, that now you have to re-convince publishers to pull the trigger on digital sharing and you need more time than
what's left before launch to implement it.
BlastProcessing
Member
There is no evidence that this is true. Online-DRM games on PC, like Assassin's Creed, were widely pirated.
That's not an agenda.
Attacking poster instead of points raised; tactic 101. *yawn*
Facts are the facts. You can either deal with them or you can complain about the person making them. Either way the facts remain the facts and you'll have to live with it.
If a person cannot be listed in different families (which I think would have been the case) it does restrict the amount of people, but even then it still is very exploitable. How will family list be prepared is a mistery, who will have a say in letting someone join, for example. Even then, the thing could be abused really efficiently, for example, a boy would share with her sister only, no need to share it with his dad. He could find 4 friends who share with their siblings only, and form a very viable family of 10 buying different games.
The incentive to keep it digital would be, well, simply pushing digital against the really "bad" old system. Making it vastly more convenient than discs would be good for everyone, if their model was indeed better for both consumers and publishers alike. So there's still incentive as the digital would compete the disc distribution, as digital distribution is where the market can be controlled extensively by publishers and the platform holder alike, unlike the classic disc based DRM.
Whiteshirt
Member
The problem is that thinking like that is almost delusional because there was already significant backlash from leaks, the whole Adam Orth scandal, etc. etc. Microsoft knew that people hated their policies but still trucked along with the whole TV TV TV reveal, then pushed out tonnes of games during E3 so people would change focus, then kept muddling the deck until no one knew what the fuck their policies are/were except that it probably wasn't good for a lot of people.
I don't even know if I can trust their family sharing plans because a lot of it right now smells of "oh sorry, you could have had this but you stupid consumers railed against it". If Micorsoft explained the policy when it wasn't some half baked thing to make the Xbox One not look like shit, then maybe it could be accepted. Or maybe they were teasing it but why would you tease something like that when you're getting hammered by the press?
Looking at it positively is like the old "Remembering Reagan" cartoon. "He supported apartheid but he was always personable and had such charisma!", Granted, video games and politics are completely different in terms of scale but the idea is the same. What is the point at looking at their platform positively when they tried to fuck a large segment of the consumer base and have shown that they weren't listening to anyone but preorders?
Wickerbasket
Member
A lot of people laugh at this post, but it echoed the general sentiments of a lot of people who were around at the time. Bear in mind that Sony, at the time, were losing a lot of third party exclusives to multiplatform while continually fucking up PR. They did eventually claw back into the lead, but not without doing a lot of work.
What I like about Amirox posts is that he says what a lot of people are usually thinking, but aren't rude enough to actually say. He's blunt and to the point, and it can be frustrating to argue against because he's usually right.
I can't understand how it is the better choice for "GAMING" microsoft. I just can't.
Now for "ADVERTIZING" microsoft, sure, I agree 100%, I can see that it would really rock their world if they could pull what they envisioned: your personal ad manager, but for reals! and with 100% foul-proof feedback!
the only problem in this "plan", is that they arbitrary picked up the 70 million number, which correspond to GAMERS, and try to pull this number by force to their newer business activity, which is ad sales and ad consulting.
it wont fly. it just wont.
The only reason ms will try to keep the kinect, has to do with ADS.
As I said before, I believe there is no chance in hell that EA or UBI (or anybody) sue them for removing it.
Then,
We all saw the freakin' best new kinect game they where planning, RYSE.
does even ONE person has the balls to come here and say that a completely kinect-driven ryse would be even worth this discussion for the game-benefits of kinect?
I dont think so..
do you really, but really-really think that what they had in the back of their minds was to make our games more ..awesome with kinect? if yes, then somebody show me where is the awesome?
now, they have a situation like 80-20 against them, they dont offer the best hardware, AND they have a big price difference, that they can eclipse if half rumors about the multi-camera cost are correct.
yet they dont do it, and rumors say that "if they dropped kinect, they would be ..sued". with this, I can only smile.
one plus one equals two. the customer base knows it. time for some ms suits to do the math.
phosphor112
Banned
Why would you want the game to be "snapped" in the small window?
Sushen
Member
I would guess this guy a fake dev. He sounds too much like trained PR dude; the way he answers and the language. Nice try.
MS can say whatever the hell they want about the Family Plan now since it will never be released. They've lied and obfuscated since day one; their credibility is shot, so why should I believe them over someone with a ~10 year career leaking info who has a >98% success rate?
It's all about multi-tasking*!
* Only works with what we allow.
These MS execs have said a lot in the past.... And a lot of it was BS.
SlowRevolution
Member
Any real proof to this? Like aside from /r/xboxone moderators?
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
it's the kind of common wisdom you find on gaf which is hyperbole. we're seeing with xbox one now.
really then why is sony still around? lol
that makes him, not right
also, FFXIII blew , so im really not sure what that accomplished anyways so.....pretending that a forward comment is foresight is.....not valid
metalslimer
Member
I really don't see how people are defending a peripheral that isnot necessary for games driving up the price of the system by a vast amount and are willing to quickly forget how hard ms wanted to screw people
You're right I don't have any proof of this; the system is not out yet. (EDIT: should read "the system will not come out, so we won't know") but Assasins creed on the PC is an open system, and I'm assuming the pirating used a cracked executable to tell it not to phone home. In the X1 it's the system phoning home to check your account to make sure you have rights to play it.
I'm not a microsoft employee but I've seen their track record. they went to the "genuine advantage" system with XP and implemented activation of their OS and saw their piracy rates drop because of a (not mandatory) online check-in. I think they would know how to implement this so it works better. Edit: I think the reason they were going to this was for adding a level of security to the DRM, so I think they believed it would be better.
As it stands now, if I were a developer I'd be wary of a platform with a last minute disc based DRM shoehorned in. Fast work isn't always bad work, but it is more likely.
While I think it'd be silly to not think of a simple flag beforehand, even simply for support purposes to know whether the game was downloaded or installed from disc, this is quite a rational explanation. But if this is the case, I'm expecting the family share plan come back within a few years. If not, it never happened
@d0min0 : MS's system made the dics act like a digital download, so I think the plans were universal. And their plans being universal may indeed explain the removal from digital downloads, but of course it doesn't explaing how publishers were fine with the system, the way I see it.
In any case, I'm at a loss as to how publishers would be fine with this system, I believe it is too good to be true and more damaging than 2nd hand sales.
So basically this is : "My insider source is better than your insider source"
Fact is that the "they can say whatever they want about a canceled feature" argument swings both ways.
Everyone saying they have facts because of their anonymous source squeaks something out is fooling themselves. Its hearsay at best.
Facts:
PS4 hardware is more powerful than X1.
X1 requires Kinect.
Both systems operate offline now.
Both have exclusive games.
Prices are PS4: $399; X1: $499
Both have online paywalls.
Almost everything else (I'm sure I missed a few) is fanboy horseshit and speculation.
Fact is that the "they can say whatever they want about a canceled feature" argument swings both ways.
Everyone saying they have facts because of their anonymous source squeaks something out is fooling themselves. Its hearsay at best.
Facts:
PS4 hardware is more powerful than X1.
X1 requires Kinect.
Both systems operate offline now.
Both have exclusive games.
Prices are PS4: $399; X1: $499
Both have online paywalls.
Almost everything else (I'm sure I missed a few) is fanboy horseshit and speculation.
Fair enough and a good point. I think I need to leave this thread before my headache gets worse.
Wickerbasket
Member
That comment back then was hyperbole, but it echo'd what a lot of people felt; that's all I'm saying.
The term 'developer' is thrown around pretty loosely, nowadays. He could really be anyone in that team.
Except, they're not facts. Are they? They're conjecture.
Me too
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