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Remedy : Next-Gen consoles are a quantum leap
- Thread starter ekim
- Start date
My apologies, but I don't think that's at all obvious. You also said 'wars', not war, implying more than one, and only one Gears had been released at that time, where as you could have been playing God of War 1 and 2 with an emulator I imagine.
Metalmurphy
Member
So... you're not gonna say what were the specs of that 2004 pc?
This is what I mean:
That's a frame taken from that GIF up there. Almost all of the 186 frames look similar.
I just thought that was very strange, and wanted to know if it's common for a GIF of a video to do that.
Erm, what software did you use? There are no frames like that when I open it with photoshop.
Same frame:
God of Wars?
Oblivion on 360 sucked, is not a surprise a mid-end 2005 pc running better than on the 360
What was the graphic card?
ATI RADEON 9800 XT or a NVIDIA GeForce FX 5950 Ultra I think.
This is what I mean:
That's a frame taken from that GIF up there. Almost all of the 186 frames look similar.
I just thought that was very strange, and wanted to know if it's common for a GIF of a video to do that.
Or you can just watch the footage. I don't think SunhiLegend is in the business of touching up .gifs.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=487266&highlight=two+souls
It's at 0:55
Sentenza
Member
Well, it was reading the previous message where I named it right, but still, my mistake, not yours.
For some reason I'm very incline to mix the two if I don't pay attention.
Well, that's *almost* true, yes.
I don't think what he said was "nobody is allowed to care" - because that's obviously not the case. Hell even myself, who does most of my gaming on PC, will welcome a boost to the baseline. He even used the Wii U as an example, which as of this fall will be the most (overall) powerful console on the market, hilariously. I don't speak for him, but I think what he was trying to get at was that these arguments on "omg console power - i want the most powerful box at 800 bucks with 90 dollar games for extra power, power power gimme more, wait till 2017 to release it so we don't have to stick with less/slow ram and pitcairnnzzz and shit" are ridiculous. And to be honest, I agree with that. If you want the most powerful and visually appealing gaming experience you're not going to have it on a console. Most of the people who buy the consoles do so for vastly different reasons and as a mass-market device. As mass-market devices, it would actually be stupid of a console manufacturer to go overboard with size/power/cost/etc and there are plenty of examples in the past that demonstrate this.
http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?C=1319&ID=1426
Thermaltake DH 101
BlackJace said:
That it is. And that's the lower end model of that line. There are some with crazy touch screen displays, extra silence padding/size and all that, but after the $200 mark (which is what I paid for this one on sale) it gets to a point where you'd rather spend the money on the internal components lol.
Shadow Hog
Member
One form of compression that animated GIFs can (and often do) use is to omit redundant data and only store the pixels that actually changed in the new frame. What you are seeing is the non-redundant data for a single frame, removed from the context of the redundant data from the previous frame.This is what I mean:
That's a frame taken from that GIF up there. Almost all of the 186 frames look similar.
I just thought that was very strange, and wanted to know if it's common for a GIF of a video to do that.
specialguy
Banned
9800 Xt wasnt even close to out in 2005...was 8800gtx.
There was not graphics cards more powerful than Xenos in mid 2005. By end 2005 yes, but it was close (mostly higher clocks)
You guys must mean 2006.
Edit: 8800GTX was in Nov 2006. end of 2005 best Nvidia card was 7800GTX. For AMD X1800XT off the top of my head.
Metalmurphy
Member
I was looking for that but couldn't find it -.- I knew it had to be Sunhi lol
No man, it was 2004, he even knows the month.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
jaundicejuice
Member
From your link...
"Although changes of quantum state occur on the submicroscopic level, in popular discourse, the term "quantum leap" refers to a large increase."
It looks like Paco PC is from the end of 2004.
So what are hardware designers supposed to do? Not make them more powerful?
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I'm so happy someone realizes this. Posting that gif is really pointless since it's one impressive model.....and that's it. Those Shenmue tech demos are a perfect example to how these controlled environments do little to show the general capabilities of a system.
And you think her character model is as detailed when also rendering the city? I'm not sure about that specific video, but in other videos I've seen, the swap to lower LOD models was very apparent when there was more than one model in the scene.
The joke quantum leaped over your head.
Metalmurphy
Member
LOD changes are nothing new in gaming but I was just saying how that was actually part of the game and not some tech demo where they were only rending her face like say... Heavy Rain load screens. Tbh I don't notice a difference when the camera zooms out and you see more stuff.
If they are using lod transitions, they're doing it well.
tkscz
Member
Also, press X to jason. Just saying.
I never really got the whole "Don't talk about graphics if you don't game on PC crowd". The majority of the things that High-End PC gaming can net you(graphics-wise)are things that the majority of gamers don't give a crap about.
Console gamers are fine, about 90%(probably more) of games that appear on PC and console are designed with the console in mind. PC ports are generally, more AA options, some texture upgrades here or there, Resolution options,etc.. Basically up-rezed.
Console gamers are fine, about 90%(probably more) of games that appear on PC and console are designed with the console in mind. PC ports are generally, more AA options, some texture upgrades here or there, Resolution options,etc.. Basically up-rezed.
Clever pun, if intentional.
Damn! Didn't notice that. Kudos subversus.
tkscz
Member
Which is why they can't wait to have them for next generation consoles.
ColdBlooder
Banned
Can´t wait for all those tears on 2013. Not talking about tears of joy here...
Not going to happen since we're going back to square one with made from the ground up DX11 games. Advantage PC.
Or yeah... Quick and Dirty Maxed out Direct X9/10 games should be no problem.
tkscz
Member
I don't think what he said was "nobody is allowed to care" - because that's obviously not the case. Hell even myself, who does most of my gaming on PC, will welcome a boost to the baseline. He even used the Wii U as an example, which as of this fall will be the most (overall) powerful console on the market, hilariously. I don't speak for him, but I think what he was trying to get at was that these arguments on "omg console power - i want the most powerful box at 800 bucks with 90 dollar games for extra power, power power gimme more, wait till 2017 to release it so we don't have to stick with less/slow ram and pitcairnnzzz and shit" are ridiculous. And to be honest, I agree with that. If you want the most powerful and visually appealing gaming experience you're not going to have it on a console. Most of the people who buy the consoles do so for vastly different reasons and as a mass-market device. As mass-market devices, it would actually be stupid of a console manufacturer to go overboard with size/power/cost/etc and there are plenty of examples in the past that demonstrate this.
http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?C=1319&ID=1426
Thermaltake DH 101
That it is. And that's the lower end model of that line. There are some with crazy touch screen displays, extra silence padding/size and all that, but after the $200 mark (which is what I paid for this one on sale) it gets to a point where you'd rather spend the money on the internal components lol.
$300!? I can't afford
gaming_noob
Member
Tears from you?
Don't you expect next-gen games to fully take advantage of DX11 ? I don't understand your "advantage PC" here.
DX11 as it is used nowadays is very interesting but not "mind-blowing" aside from a few exceptions (Crysis 2/3, Metro 2033..).
I want the next wave of console games to really push the DX11 architecture in a more efficient way (because of the console architecture).
$300!? I can't afford
Some of the higher end HTPC cases can cost as much as a console itself... but you pay for the form factor, the cooling, and the design (just as Sony/MS/Nintendo do)
With that said, you can build a gaming rig/HTPC hybrid with much less cost and lower end cases as well and still look almost as nice as that. It's all a matter of tolerance in regards to money you spend, silence you desire, features, looks, etc.
These are all things the console manufacturers (especially MS) are looking at in regards to size/silence/etc vs power as well.
There is a saying in the computing world:
Small, affordable, powerful. Pick 2.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Just because their consoles of choice will have nowhere near the effective power of a PC, doesn't mean they won't be impressed by what they see.
You are talking hardware more than a generation removed. Even with the limitations present. Just in GPU power with Orbis for instance you are talking about 5-6x the effective power of the WiiU. Of which Orbis will be anywhere from 5-6x weaker than a high-end GPU for the PC.
Orbis and Durango might be a lot weaker than a comparative PC on a level "powerhouse" consoles have never been, but you can be certain they hit at least the minimum for Epics UE4 lighting tech. Something the WiiU is likely to miss by a lot.
Oh next gen consoles will fully take advantage of DX11. But we won't be seeing lots of 60fps games as a result.
PC gaming has not fully taken advantage of DX11 at all.
Fortnite will be one of those games that will. Do not let the art style fool you.
tkscz
Member
Good saying. I honestly just want a case I can fit neatly in my entertainment center. Small form factor seems to be the way to go for that. Just not that affordable lol.
Still, DX11 on PC today provides an interesting visual update, it's nowhere near as significant as one could expect but it's definitely there. Personnally I'm very happy that some upcoming high profile PC games support DX11.
Not interested if it's a F2P title.
I don't think you're getting my point at all.
Just like I don't get the point of posting that gif to begin with.
ColdBlooder
Banned
The power of a console is not only determined with the GPU. Its multiple facors.
But hey Sony is in deep shit financally but who cares! 599 v2 needs to happen! We need as much graphics power as possible!
Gaming on NeoGAF is NOT about having a good time. Its all about who can display the most particles/effects whatsoever. I start to believe people complain and bitch about consoles alot more than actually play on them. Because that seems the thing to do when you are into videogames!
Calling a console shit/crap whatsoever just because it dosen´t pull off UE4 elemental demo at 1080p60 is pure nonsense.
I had a blast playing with the Wii this gen even if it ws "just" an overclocked gamecube.
Sony is the wildcard here. But despite their current finanical situation... The PS4 will still be a powerful system. We'll just have to wait and see the fruits of their R&D team on the reveal.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
I realize that, but for the sake of clarity, and to make it easy to understand I just compared with a multiplier the floppage of two like parts. Orbis and WiiU GPU's. Effectively their GPU's are a half-generational difference in brute force. Featureset is likely similar, use of transistors (not amount) likely similar. Just one with 5-6x the brute force capability.
At the absolute worst for Orbis you're going to run the best the WiiU has to offer at a significantly higher resolution, higher frame count, with higher precision effects.
We don't know all the details yet, and you can't say the size means anything, look at the GameCube, it's much smaller than the PS2 but it's more powerful and it's almost as powerful as the Xbox, so clearly size for Nintendo consoles don't matter.
Look at back on the Wii U thread.
It can though really, we have no idea how much more powerful the PS4/720 is to the Wii U, they can be 3x for all we know.
Can't 100% say about the Zelda tech demo but the Bird tech demo?, I haven't seen a game on the PS3/360 run real time that, and keep in mind that was on a weaker dev kit.
gaming_noob
Member
That's one of the most random post replies I've read in this thread.
I really don't know what you are implying with the "back to square one" comment. The D3D API is pretty much the same as its every been.
You build a DX11 game the same way you build a DX10 game. I guess if you are on the tessellation train then DX11 gives you new toys but still...
MS is the only one who will use DX anyway....
It's not random. ColdBlooder is posting from the future.
Look at his/her Avatar, and then look deep inside your soul.
He/She has seen everything the next generation has to offer.
MIND=BLOWN
I was talking about comparing maxed out DX9/DX10 games on PC to native DX11 games.
Well Open GL DX11 variant.
Which is quite true for many <_<
WII despite a weak hardware is quite a fantastic console as well.
A weak console can still be a great console. I guess that was his point.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
This is all very true.
It just has no secondary or tertiary connection to the thread in question.
ColdBlooder
Banned
This is the most random answer to a random post!
No matter what PS4/720 are going to offer hardware wise. The software will propably not blow my mind...
Gonna countdown 56 days now. Not gonna bother with this tiresome topic anymore, since today was a magnificent day for me!
How can you say this ?
nelsonroyale
Member
Really despite being much more powerful, no company is going to create games aimed at the high end GPUs...infact they probably aren't even going to optimize there engines thoroughly for them. People expecting PC games to look different to consoles games at the beginning of next gen (minus higher frame rates, extra particles, and some sharper effects) are in cloud cookoo...
The difference is going to be closer than the end of this gen...I exptect pretty much all intensive games in the first few years of next gen to be console ports.
The difference is going to be closer than the end of this gen...I exptect pretty much all intensive games in the first few years of next gen to be console ports.
ColdBlooder
Banned
Ok, this is the lase post in this thread from me:
Because its NOT Nintendo. Wii U with no Nintendo games would be the least interesting console in history.
Wii U with Nintendo games makes it the best console ever software wise. BY FAR. Thats my opinion, wether anyone like it or not.
Quote me as much as you want, responses from me won´t come...
Thunder Monkey
Banned
You forgot rendered at a higher resolution.
Those addendum's you posted are literally what the extra power a PC has will be used for. Especially early on. And that means more power. Rendering the same games at a higher res, higher framerate, with higher fidelity effects takes more power. Something PC's today have over Orbis launching next year.
A first for "powerhouse" consoles. To be completely outpaced by day 1.
The poster you replied to didn't call the Wii-U shit/crap as far as I can see, so what was the purpose of this post?
Also I don't think it's fair to say GAF isn't about a good time and all we care about is displaying particles. We just understand that to make progression on the software, there has to be progression on the hardware.
This mentality is not to take away from the fun the Wii (or Wii-U) may provide, but instead to highlight why people want as much power as possible.
Yeah I'm just going to go on the assumption that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and like a few other fans of Nintendo, you've had your head in the clouds of mushroom kingdom instead of keeping up with the relevance of technology.
I would suggest learning how the size of a console does matter before trying to have a conversation about technology.
Edit:
lol yet another delusional fan of these gaming companies that I can't take serious anymore.