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REMEMBER the dArk knight rises UnmaRked spOileR threAd | You only legend once

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Tookay

Member
Okay, I have time to post some more detailed thoughts.

For some background, I think Begins and TDK are great films, but I'd put TDK a little ahead of Begins on most days.

I thought this was the easily the weakest of the three movies, at times bordering on parody. It felt like Nolan's worst flaws in the writing stage all came out in this one. There were dialogues that were so contrived and out-of-character that I was sort of taken out of it. Alfred talking about Ra's/the League of Shadows fanservice, Alfred's revelation of Rachel's letter, Gordon's corny attempt at revealing the truth about Dent, Talia's death monologue, Blake figuring out identity in five seconds, Gordon figuring out Batman = Bruce, etc. It felt like fan-fiction of a Nolan Batman at times.

There was a kernel of a great movie in this plot, at least conceptually. The beginning of the movie is slow and filled to the brim with a lot of expository dialogue, but I didn't think TDK's was that great either. Then midway, when all hell breaks loose, the middle section of the movie completely loses the plot. Occupied Gotham should be a wasteland, filled with despair, but we never really get a sense of what's happening on the ground. There's very little in the way of citizen interactions, so it's difficult to see what life is like to the average person. TDK did a much better of exploring the implications of terrorism. This movie... did not really give you a good idea of that. I mean, an entire American city is held for ransom, its police force is trapped under ground, its savior is taken out, but the implications are barely felt.

Bruce's training and rediscovery of his purpose in the middle could have been more fleshed out. Nearly all the character's arcs could have been, had some of them been cut. Honestly, there's no need to have Blake, Catwoman, or Talia in this movie. Either they needed to go and give this movie breathing room for the already existing players (Bruce, Alfred, Lucius, Gordon) and villain (Bane), or it needed to be longer to do them all justice. As it stands, TDKR feels like the most rushed 2 hour and 45 minute movie I've witnessed. Because of this, it doesn't earn its dramatic beats as well as it could have, had it be a little leaner.

Other nitpicks:
-Bane's dialogue was clearly ADR'd in the prologue and clashed with how it later sounded, sort of provoking a "WTF" reaction from my friends.
-Some of the scene transitions were funky, with little build-up or establishing shots. Take the scene were Bruce goes to the doctor, jumps out of the building, and then we're talking to Gordon suddenly. Or where Batman stands on the bridge, then skips to Catwoman's "don't be shy," where they take out what seems like three thugs, and are immediately in Bane's lair. I mean, Jesus, that was easy.
 

Rich!

Member
There should have been at least some explanation as to how Bane found out who batman was, and where the Armory was.

Talia told him. It's not rocket science. She was the key to everything.

Anyway. MY THOUGHTS!

1. This is a SEQUEL TO BATMAN BEGINS. It really, really is.

- best performance by far was Michael Caine's. Goddamn.
- JGL was awesome, as was Hathaway
- Crane was absolutely hilarious. DEATH...BY EXILE!! SOLD!!!!!!
- Liam Neeson is badass.
- lol, george mason was obviously in the back of the bat. He took over, so Batman could bail. OBVIOUSLY

ALSO

lol, EVEN MORE PRISON BREAK ACTORS. Namely Brad Bellick/Wade Williams as the prison guard. Lots of people laughed like hell when he turned up, purely as it was so bizarre.
 

PBY

Banned
Okay, I have time to post some more detailed thoughts.

For some background, I think Begins and TDK are great films, but I'd put TDK a little ahead of Begins on most days.

I thought this was the easily the weakest of the three movies, at times bordering on parody. It felt like Nolan's worst flaws in the writing stage all came out in this one. There were dialogues that were so contrived and out-of-character that I was sort of taken out of it. Alfred talking about Ra's/the League of Shadows fanservice, Alfred's revelation of Rachel's letter, Gordon's corny attempt at revealing the truth about Dent, Talia's death monologue, Blake figuring out identity in five seconds, Gordon figuring out Batman = Bruce, etc. It felt like fan-fiction of a Nolan Batman at times.

There was a kernel of a great movie in this plot, at least conceptually. The beginning of the movie is slow and filled to the brim with a lot of expository dialogue, but I didn't think TDK's was that great either. Then midway, when all hell breaks loose, the middle section of the movie completely loses the plot. Occupied Gotham should be a wasteland, filled with despair, but we never really get a sense of what's happening on the ground. There's very little in the way of citizen interactions, so it's difficult to see what life is like to the average person. TDK did a much better of exploring the implications of terrorism. This movie... did not really give you a good idea of that. I mean, an entire American city is held for ransom, its police force is trapped under ground, its savior is taken out, but the implications are barely felt.

Bruce's training and rediscovery of his purpose in the middle could have been more fleshed out. Nearly all the character's arcs could have been, had some of them been cut. Honestly, there's no need to have Blake, Catwoman, or Talia in this movie. Either they needed to go and give this movie breathing room for the already existing players (Bruce, Alfred, Lucius, Gordon) and villain (Bane), or this movie needed to be longer to do them all justice. As it stands, this movie feels like the most rushed 2 hour and 45 minute movie I've witnessed. Because of this, the movie doesn't earn its dramatic beats as well as it could have, had it be a little leaner.

Other nitpicks:
-Bane's dialogue was clearly ADR'd in the prologue and clashed with how it later sounded, sort of provoking a "WTF" reaction from my friends.
-Some of the scene transitions were funky, with little build-up or establishing shots. Take the scene were Bruce goes to the doctor, jumps out of the building, and then we're talking to Gordon suddenly. Or where Batman stands on the bridge, then skips to Catwoman's "don't be shy," where they take out what seems like three thugs, and are immediately in Bane's lair. I mean, Jesus, that was easy.
Spot on. Agree with all of this
 

Tookay

Member
1. This is a SEQUEL TO BATMAN BEGINS. It really, really is.

Yes. The thing is, it feels really forced.

Where TDK was initially jarring because it acted like BB never happened, this movie is all the more jarring because it tries very desperately to tie it all back into BB while barely mentioning TDK.

It was like fan-service for the sake of it, like what fan would have outlined back in 2005 how a sequel could go.
 
Okay, I have time to post some more detailed thoughts.

For some background, I think Begins and TDK are great films, but I'd put TDK a little ahead of Begins on most days.

I thought this was the easily the weakest of the three movies, at times bordering on parody. It felt like Nolan's worst flaws in the writing stage all came out in this one. There were dialogues that were so contrived and out-of-character that I was sort of taken out of it. Alfred talking about Ra's/the League of Shadows fanservice, Alfred's revelation of Rachel's letter, Gordon's corny attempt at revealing the truth about Dent, Talia's death monologue, Blake figuring out identity in five seconds, Gordon figuring out Batman = Bruce, etc. It felt like fan-fiction of a Nolan Batman at times.

There was a kernel of a great movie in this plot, at least conceptually. The beginning of the movie is slow and filled to the brim with a lot of expository dialogue, but I didn't think TDK's was that great either. Then midway, when all hell breaks loose, the middle section of the movie completely loses the plot. Occupied Gotham should be a wasteland, filled with despair, but we never really get a sense of what's happening on the ground. There's very little in the way of citizen interactions, so it's difficult to see what life is like to the average person. TDK did a much better of exploring the implications of terrorism. This movie... did not really give you a good idea of that. I mean, an entire American city is held for ransom, its police force is trapped under ground, its savior is taken out, but the implications are barely felt.

Bruce's training and rediscovery of his purpose in the middle could have been more fleshed out. Nearly all the character's arcs could have been, had some of them been cut. Honestly, there's no need to have Blake, Catwoman, or Talia in this movie. Either they needed to go and give this movie breathing room for the already existing players (Bruce, Alfred, Lucius, Gordon) and villain (Bane), or it needed to be longer to do them all justice. As it stands, TDKR feels like the most rushed 2 hour and 45 minute movie I've witnessed. Because of this, it doesn't earn its dramatic beats as well as it could have, had it be a little leaner.

Other nitpicks:
-Bane's dialogue was clearly ADR'd in the prologue and clashed with how it later sounded, sort of provoking a "WTF" reaction from my friends.
-Some of the scene transitions were funky, with little build-up or establishing shots. Take the scene were Bruce goes to the doctor, jumps out of the building, and then we're talking to Gordon suddenly. Or where Batman stands on the bridge, then skips to Catwoman's "don't be shy," where they take out what seems like three thugs, and are immediately in Bane's lair. I mean, Jesus, that was easy.

While I don't agree with most of that, I will say that some of the screen transitions DID bother me. I can't help but feel like the movie got cut down a lot for the sake of time as well.
 
I think the worst exposition scene was when Selena went to get the Clean Slate, and the guy explained, in detail everything it was to someone who already knew. I know they phrased it so make it sound like it was crazy, but I was just stunned at that level of transperncy.

And then later when the guy is explaining his plan to Bane(who obviously fully aware of the situation) right before he dies. "You know, this isn't what I wanted! My company needs to absorb Wayne Industries, you've got my construction team, why aren't I head of Wayne company yet!?" to paraphrase.

I did like when Bane put his hand on his shoulder, though. "Does it feel like you are in power here?"
 

Jarmel

Banned
Yes. The thing is, it feels really forced.

Where TDK was initially jarring because it acted like BB never happened, this movie is all the more jarring because it tries very desperately to tie it all back into BB while barely mentioning TDK.

It was like fan-service for the sake of it, like what fan would have outlined back in 2005 how a sequel could go.

I disagree. They carried certain themes for TDK throughout this movie, the one being about what people would do without order. This was an entire movie built off of Joker's last speech to Batman. This movie was about the fallout of TDK as well.
 

Jarmel

Banned
Yes. The thing is, it feels really forced.

Where TDK was initially jarring because it acted like BB never happened, this movie is all the more jarring because it tries very desperately to tie it all back into BB while barely mentioning TDK.

It was like fan-service for the sake of it, like what fan would have outlined back in 2005 how a sequel could go.

I disagree. They carried certain themes from TDK throughout this movie, the one being about what people would do without order. This was an entire movie built off of Joker's last speech to Batman. This movie was about the fallout of TDK as well.
 

ultron87

Member
I appreciated that they actually blew up the bridge on Blake instead of it being a rehash of "the average people go against what they are told to do by the criminal mastermind."
 

Tookay

Member
Well, it WAS a trap.

True, but it felt like Batman could have waltzed in himself. It didn't really set up why he even needed Catwoman to get there. That's why her "betrayal" doesn't work for me.

Additionally, I don't really get why Bruce so suddenly forgives Selina for that. Yeah, she has a bad past... so does every criminal he beats up.

And let's not even get into how he just "shows up" in Gotham after escaping the pit. This movie could have built up his return a lot better, by showing his escape, montaging his attempts to get home (bailing out of a plane?), making it, seeing how his city has been fucking wrecked, etc.
 
Are these wrong?

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Salvadora

Member
The actual audio was perfectly clear (insanely better than the prologue), it was just the way he talked sometimes made it hard to understand.

The prologue was far better but at times, Like the poster above said, It was almost like a mumble at some stages while being perfectly comprehensible in the next.
 

Ceebs

Member
I enjoyed the movie despite feeling terrible through the entire thing. I have a terrible tootchache and the painkillers I am taking give me a bad case of nausea. Around the time of the football scene I started feeling like shit, but stuck it out.

I'll agree some scenes felt very rushed and I would not be shocked if the original cut of the movie was closer to 4 hours rather than 3. Would love to see a directors cut/extended version.

Really liked how they portrayed Bane. Very menacing presence. The Talia reveal was a bit abrupt though, she could have used more screen time.
 

Tookay

Member
I appreciated that they actually blew up the bridge on Blake instead of it being a rehash of "the average people go against what they are told to do by the criminal mastermind."

I agree, but that moment is so unnecessary. They kept cutting back to it when all the cool shit with Bruce/Bane/Talia was going on, and I was like "shut upppppp." I mean, a nuke was going to go off. I don't really care about these orphans at this point.

If this movie was trying to set up Blake to be a future hero, they could have had him doing... more during the finale.

I think the worst exposition scene was when Selena went to get the Clean Slate, and the guy explained, in detail everything it was to someone who already knew. I know they phrased it so make it sound like it was crazy, but I was just stunned at that level of transperncy.

And then later when the guy is explaining his plan to Bane(who obviously fully aware of the situation) right before he dies. "You know, this isn't what I wanted! My company needs to absorb Wayne Industries, you've got my construction team, why aren't I head of Wayne company yet!?" to paraphrase.

I did like when Bane put his hand on his shoulder, though. "Does it feel like you are in power here?"

Yes, Dagget was fucking awful. His writing was atrocious and the actor portraying him couldn't elevate it either. It was ridiculous.

I disagree. They carried certain themes from TDK throughout this movie, the one being about what people would do without order. This was an entire movie built off of Joker's last speech to Batman. This movie was about the fallout of TDK as well.

It was about the fallout/Joker's speech, but it barely explored the implications of most of it. We get one scene of prisoner's/Occupy Gotham tearing apart people's homes to show how maybe Joker was right. There's a kangaroo court, but the stakes are barely set up for it. The second act needed much more fleshing out than it got.
 
Some highlights for me were Batman saying "So that's how that feels" when Catwoman left him.
Talia's reveal.
JGL being Robin.
Every scene with Bane.
Crane's Cameo was hilarious.
Ras' cameo.
Hathaway's overall performance (I had faith).
Batman getting his back broken Knightfall style.
Seeing the Batcave.
Also, seeing Bruce in the Batman costume minus the mask is always cool to me.
Soooooo good.

Also, Alfred talking to the Wayne's tombs was a friggin tear jerker.

I really loved the movie, I think it may be the best of the trilogy.
 

Pagusas

Elden Member
Maybe you guys can answer this, unfortunatly I was distracted during this scene but at the very end how did Fox have the Bat and how did they know Bruce had fixed the auto pilot when it had been right next to a nuclear explosion? I would assume the Bat would have been vaporized!
 

Plasmid

Member
Yep. That's why people who are saying they ignored TDK irritate me as they did carry a lot of stuff from TDK.

Ahh yeah,and dent etc.

Something that kind of bothered me was the anger between Blake and Gordon when they announed Dent was corrupt, seems so against his character.
 

Talon

Member
Bane was menacing as hell. Really impressed with that.

The downside is that he left a vacuum when he stepped into the background.

I'm proud of myself, though. Not spoiled on Robin and Talia! Go me.
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Ahh yeah,and dent etc.

Something that kind of bothered me was the anger between Blake and Gordon when they announed Dent was corrupt, seems so against his character.

Yeah, becasue with his talk with Bruce, I figured he had a decent idea what went down anyways. He knew batman took the fall.
 

Rich!

Member
Maybe you guys can answer this, unfortunatly I was distracted during this scene but at the very end how did Fox have the Bat and how did they know Bruce had fixed the auto pilot when it had been right next to a nuclear explosion? I would assume the Bat would have been vaporized!

he did a jack bauer
 

Pagusas

Elden Member
Ahh yeah,and dent etc.

Something that kind of bothered me was the anger between Blake and Gordon when they announed Dent was corrupt, seems so against his character.

I dont think he was angry about dent being currupt, he was angry that Gordon had lied to everyone build everything off of a lie.
 
Was an OK movie....would have been better if Batman was actually in it and actually did some Batman related stuff. In this flick, Alfred (knows all about Bane for some reason), Catwoman (also knows all about Bane and where he hides out for some reason) and Robin Cop (knows everything about Wayne/Batman for some reason) do all the lifting for Batman in this film. Nolan knows how to make a movie look and feel much smarter than it is, that's for sure. And the overuse of the score was getting to me. It's pretty heavy handed in trying to get us to feel dread and urgency, but you know my favorite part? When Bane kicks Bruce's ass because the score finally shuts up and let's the action on the screen evoke it's own emotion. Easily the best scene in the entire film.
 

Tookay

Member
Yep. That's why people who are saying they ignored TDK irritate me as they did carry a lot of stuff from TDK.

They did, but the way they do it doesn't feel... natural and the way they crowbar Begins back into existence doesn't either. I'd try to articulate my feelings more, but I'm not sure how to. The impact of the callbacks to TDK feel pretty forced and... fan-fictiony.

The way Bane gets the "truth about Harvey Dent" is because... Gordon writes a letter about the "truth behind Harvey Dent." It struck me as lazy. Alfred brings up Rachel's letter in a sort of cheesy way, although Caine almost sells it.

There's implications there, but it's like they take the easy way out of exploring it, every single time.
 

Plasmid

Member
I dont think he was angry about dent being currupt, he was angry that Gordon had lied to everyone build everything off of a lie.

I meant gordon, he goes from "you have to protect the people" to "I HOPE YOU HAVE SOMETHING THAT CAN HELP YOU LIKE I DID SO YOU CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT I DID."
 

Tookay

Member
Was an OK movie....would have been better if Batman was actually in it and actually did some Batman related stuff. In this flick, Alfred (knows all about Bane for some reason), Catwoman (also knows all about Bane and where he hides out for some reason) and Robin Cop (knows everything about Wayne/Batman for some reason) do all the lifting for Batman in this film. Nolan knows how to make a movie look and feel much smarter than it is, that's for sure. And the overuse of the score was getting to me. It's pretty heavy handed in trying to get us to feel dread and urgency, but you know my favorite part? When Bane kicks Bruce's ass because the score finally shuts up and let's the action on the screen evoke it's own emotion. Easily the best scene in the entire film.

Easily. That fight scene was fucking brutal and well-done. Nolan upped his fight scene game in this movie.
 

ultron87

Member
but how did he have it even in the first place? How was the Bat not completely destroyed by the nuke going off not 20 feet from it?

I believe it was a different Bat. The technicians mention that the auto pilot was fixed by a software patch, so all the models would have it or something.
 
Yes. The thing is, it feels really forced.

Where TDK was initially jarring because it acted like BB never happened, this movie is all the more jarring because it tries very desperately to tie it all back into BB while barely mentioning TDK.

It was like fan-service for the sake of it, like what fan would have outlined back in 2005 how a sequel could go.

I disagree. This was a sequel to both movies. One of Bane's motivations was how he wanted to destroy everything Bats and Jim worked to create at the end of TDKR. It tied everything back to both movies.

Also, how did TDK act like BB didn't happen? It talks about all the changes throughout the year since Bats showed up. It talked about everything Bruce and Rachel went through. Shit it starts out tying up loose ends with Scarecrow.
 
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