Support NeoGAF

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Uhh, matrices and solving polynomial equations are ridiculously important.

What do you guys study...?

 

[Black-Wind]

And write in cursive and shit? Any time I have to do a math problem I can just flip up the calculator on my Apple iPhone 6 and I dare u to try and write something in cursive

Funny, after leaving HS and going so long without having a reason to WRITE large amounts of things by hand my brain kinda got the process of writing by hand fucked up.

I just flip between print and cursive all the time. Be it between words or letters in words :/

 

[bobbytkc]

Quadratic formula literally has you plugging in numbers into a formula. Matrices aren't taught in high school in Ontario at least.

They don't teach you matrices?

Oooh boy. Matrices are probably one of the most useful mathematical concepts.

 

[ProfessorLobo]

Good that we know that people with T and E degrees can't become better people.

Yo the Pythagorean theorem is on top of Maslov's hierarchy of needs.

OP is right, higher level math is largely useless for anyone not going into stem. I feel bad for the number of man hours that youth wastes on doing things they'll never do again when they could be perfecting skills that they love.

 

[RELIGHT]

I with you on the cursive thing since essentially it's just a damn font.

But math? Lol you must be joking. Basic math, at bare minimum, is used by a lot of people on a daily basis.

 

[Blargonaut]

What the OP SHOULD have said is this.

Having this be required is good:

Having this be required is also good:

Maybe even some of this:

But this bullshit:

can fuck right off.

Ahhhh, those aren't that bad

Replacing letters with numbers, like, c'mon

Matrices are basically slidey puzzles, get the frog past the traffic by moving the train cars around

Spoiler

I failed my 3rd year Advanced Math module of my Mech. Eng. course last year

 

[Eusis]

But they can just teach math in college once u have a major that involves advanced math??

It's easier to get the cores of it into your head when you're young than when you're college age. At worst at least you'd be more prepared for if you decided a STEM field was more your thing.

 

[Karsticles]

Quadratic formula literally has you plugging in numbers into a formula. Matrices aren't taught in high school in Ontario at least.

Matrices are standard in the USA as part of Algebra II.

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

Most people could probably get by with simple arithmetic, but everyone should probably know algebra and it makes life far easier. Like even being able to figure out how much a percent discount is worth is useful to know. Why would you want to go through life not understanding those concepts you'd probably always feel like you're being cheated by any financial transaction.

That's why they invented calculators.

 

[swearing-circle]

I find it difficult to not write in cursive.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

You'll never be a doctor.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Basically, I notice three types of education threads on GAF:

*Person that blows at math* : "Math is useless!"

*Engineer about to get fired because he can't communicate shit*: "Why do they force you to take writing classes?"

*Person that blows at math* : "I can't help my kid with his Common Core HW, thanks Obama."

 

[Surface of Me]

After algebra yeah it's all useless.

 

[bobbytkc]

That's why they invented calculators.

I once went to Italy, bought a 3 dollar trinket and the cashier busted out a calculator to calculate 10-3 to give me 7 dollars of change.

No, that is not why they invented the calculator.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

After algebra yeah it's all useless.

Probability/statistics is the most important class in the world and the tool you most need in all of life, but sure.

 

[Relativ9]

Math IS important, as is physicis, both should be taught as early as possible. But they need to stop requiring you to do tests without notes, being good at math is knowing how and when to use the various formulas, not remembering them. Most mathematicians and engineers carry around a notepad while working.

 

[TUSR]

What the OP SHOULD have said is this.

Having this be required is good:

Having this be required is also good:

Maybe even some of this:

But this bullshit:

can fuck right off.

all of this stuff is basic tho

 

[draetenth]

The only time I have used cursive out of school (out of college for about 10 years now) has been to sign my name and I don't think I've ever had to do a math problem where I didn't have a calculator or had some sort of computer program that functioned like a calculator where I just need to type in numbers to get my answer.

I can't even add/subtract/multiply fractions like I used to. >.>

 

[Unmasked Ferret]

I don't like taking math classes but I still get that it's an important set of skills, and that they teach vital problem solving and critical thinking skills. A lot of courses especially in high school just don't do a good job of explaining why a particular aspect is important, but this could be said of most subjects.

 

[Tesseract]

Probability/statistics is the most important class in the world and the tool you most need in all of life, but sure.

 

[PdotMichael]

Yo the Pythagorean theorem is on top of Maslov's hierarchy of needs.

OP is right, higher level math is largely useless for anyone not going into stem. I feel bad for the number of man hours that youth wastes on doing things they'll never do again when they could be perfecting skills that they love.

Most people don't also do arts or sports after school. Why school in the first place?

The fact that you don't need something in your later life isn't an argument for that something shouldn't be part of your education.

 

[John Kowalski]

ah yes the quadratic equation

we had a lot of fun with it when we were THREE YEAR OLDS

 

[The Lamp]

And write in cursive and shit? Any time I have to do a math problem I can just flip up the calculator on my Apple iPhone 6 and I dare u to try and write something in cursive

It would've made school way more fun if teachers would have been real about what stuff was good to know. Like hb having a class about filing taxes or shopping for credit cards

Just because you're blissfully unaware of the importance of learning math doesn't mean they were wrong about that.

Learning math is important for teaching people how to prove something, how to solve problems, and how to quantify the world around them in universal and objective terms. It gets your brain to think in ways that are crucial to being an intellectual person. We teach children math because of these wonderful benefits. And because the basics of math are important for personal finance and basic life skills.

Beyond that, math is important because it governs everything that you know of and is used to make everything you interact with in life. Knowing a basic amount of math prepares you for careers that need math skills. You might say you know you will never do a math-based career, but you can never actually know that (I wanted to go to art school, ended up becoming a chemical engineer), and if you didn't learn ANY math in school, these options would be completely non-existent to you.

Cursive is useless, yeah, but it was really easy and is still really easy. It at least makes reading older documents possible.

 

[Relentless 757]

What the OP SHOULD have said is this.

Having this be required is good:

Having this be required is also good:

Maybe even some of this:

But this bullshit:

can fuck right off.

HA. That's all basic math, easy shit.

Anyway, the title is why I get so defensive about math. Math is quite important in the real world if you wanna be anything involving a science or engineering, which is large portion of college students. Computation through arithmetic may not be that important, you will of course have a calculator on the job, but it is absolutely essential to fundamental mathematics that you understand the procedure of solving a problem via hand. It also develops critical thinking skills.

Not trying to come off as a STEM elitist (though I am currently in college studying for a CS major), but saying math isn't important is ignorance, on pair with saying English and History isn't as well. English is necessary for the growth of writing and speaking skills, and history can influence political opinion and encourage critical thinking.

 

[Gun Animal]

You won't be ready for the stuff they each you in college unless they teach you the stuff they do at high school.

A lot of colleges offer high-school level math classes as well, largely because of how many people don't give a shit about math and either don't pay attention at all in high-school or forget everything as soon as they graduate.

It's better if you learn that stuff in high-school but it's not the end of the world if you get to college without math skills, either. You can basically catch up to college-level math in one semester if you give enough of a shit to do so. It's not like someone's going to major in a STEM field if they actively dislike math anyways.

I'm not arguing against algebra/trig/calculus in highschool, btw! Just reminding everyone not to put so much pressure on themselves and others. Math is fun! People shouldn't have to stress out over it so much. Learn at your own pace, etc etc.

 

[BocoDragon]

I can imagine that math really isn't that important when you're flipping burgers.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

But they can just teach math in college once u have a major that involves advanced math??

no...this is a good troll though...it better be

 

[impact]

My teachers told me grammer was important.

lol how are you going to call someone out then misspell such a basic word?

 

[The Lamp]

I can imagine that math really isn't that important when you're flipping burgers.

It gets a little important when you try to figure out how to budget a lifestyle off of a burger-flipping income.

Most people don't also do arts or sports after school. Why school in the first place?

The fact that you don't need something in your later life isn't an argument for that something shouldn't be part of your education.

This. This is what it comes down to.

A grade school education is not about training you in what you like, it's about making you a prepared, well-rounded adult with competencies in different parts of human culture. That's why we have music class, art class, English class, science class, etc etc. These are ALL facets of human history and culture and development that should not be ignored.

Math IS important, as is physicis, both should be taught as early as possible. But they need to stop requiring you to do tests without notes, being good at math is knowing how and when to use the various formulas, not remembering them. Most mathematicians and engineers carry around a notepad while working.

I sort of agree with you, but we've already been tested on how to do all the math without carrying a notepad everywhere.

Like, you can derive all of electromagnetism with only 5 equations, and you better believe that I had final exams with no formula sheet, where I had to conjure them out of thin air using what I learned.

 

[The Lamp]

Dammit double post, sorry.

 

[Lord Morairty007]

Math and science are the very important. Sadly I'm horrible at math and alright at science(history was my calling)

I think the general consensus in this thread is that math and the rest of STEM are amazing and cool and everyone should be into it. I agree for the most part.

What does GAF think about History? How important is it that a working adult know all the president's birthdays?

I think its important. "History is inescapable. It studies the past and the legacies of the past in the present."-Penelope J. Corfield I got myself a major in history. Most people will say its worthless to get....but most people who have History B.degrees go on to work in array of fields.

 

[Gun Animal]

My teachers told me grammer was important.

lol how are you going to call someone out then misspell such a basic word?

that's the joke

 

[Unbounded]

You do realize that making that calculator, or pretty much every other piece of technology you've ever used required someone to use math in some shape or form, right?

 

[Arulan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETt8GJRbqLc

Spoiler

Yes, math is pretty important for my area of study: Computer Science.

 

[Nickle]

Barely have to use it at all for my fast food job.

 

[bennywhatever]

I do lots of carpentry as a hobby, and that basic quick math & geometry is insanely helpful.

 

[The Lamp]

I think the general consensus in this thread is that math and the rest of STEM are amazing and cool and everyone should be into it. I agree for the most part.

What does GAF think about History? How important is it that a working adult know all the president's birthdays?

Learning history in general is important because it makes you more aware of our species history and the reality around us. Just like math. I find great value in learning history. But if you insist on a comparison, from my standpoint, this is what I think.

It starts with Bloom's Taxonomy. I believe that math requires higher orders of learning than some other subjects.

Unlike history, I think, math involves higher levels of learning and creativity. Math doesn't just require memorization (the lowest level of learning), it requires understanding. You cannot simply memorize math. You can memorize the quadratic equation, but if you don't know how to use it, it's worthless. But it goes even further: math, for example, can be used for creativity and knowledge synthesis--the highest form of learning. We can use the quadratic equation to create new knowledge, inventions and truth. That is a large depth in learning that math provides. You cannot pass an advanced math exam by just memorizing or even discussing or pondering facts from lecture. You have to practice and understand and prove and create information. That's a very deep level of learning.

Sure, with history, you can discover new things about history by knowing other things about history. But at its apex, knowing history can be conquered by just rote memorization and regurgitation of facts (I guess high level history learning however does include a lot of good judgment based on established facts, just like math, though). People who are good at absorbing facts can be very good historians. But what about creativity? Knowledge synthesis? History doesn't seem to expand these learning processes. It seems to be a more shallow subject of learning depth despite how vast and broad it is.

Not to shit or shame on history, though. It's a wonderful, rich subject and important to study!

 

[Cloyster]

HA. That's all basic math, easy shit.

This is all anyone can say as a defense when I bring this stuff up.

It was easy to YOU, but it wasn't for me. I hated it, and I failed the class I had to take this stuff in three times before I passed, and it really fucked up my grades.

Also, it doesn't matter if it's easy. I'm talking about how fucking pointless it is. I will NEVER use this stuff, ever ever again, and it wasted so much of my time, and fucked up my academics, that I will always hate it.

I'd be absolutely fine with being required to take a statistics and economics class. But not this bullshit.

 

[brainchild]

It's true that most people don't actually need to be personally able to, say, multiply two numbers together. Actually pretty much nobody needs to do this, anymore.

But it's very important that people have a basic sense of about how big the answer would be if they multiplied two numbers together, and it's hard to get that sense without practicing. It's not like everyone is constantly using their phones to do every multiplication that comes up - I don't stop to actually calculate how much I expect to pay if I order four Happy Meals. I don't need to, because the precise answer isn't that important, but it's the sort of thing I need to be able to ballpark in order to compare that to other options. Likewise when informally budgeting, as most people do, you need to be able to ballpark average weekly or monthly expenses and then extrapolate to a pay period or a year or whatever.

Algebra is also pretty vital. Yeah, nobody actually writes down an equation and solves for X, but we encounter situations where we need to think algebraically all the time. The standard sorts of word problems that come up in math classes happen in real life. And again it's not that it's so important to have a precise answer, but it's really important to be able to quickly get a sense of about how big the answer is. Even using a calculator constantly for everything doesn't help much here because most of algebra is learning how to set up the problem and which operations you actually need to do in which order to solve for X.

Geometry is probably less important in practice; I suspect most people develop spatial intuition on their own. Probability and statistics are essential and unfortunately we don't teach much of them, which probably contributes to a lot of terrible decisions that people make. Calculus is basically unnecessary in the same way that being able to read and comprehend more than a few paragraphs at a time is, but most people don't get much exposure to it anyway.

But in short, calculators don't help much if you don't know that you need a calculator or if you don't know what to tell the calculator to do to solve your problem.

You said pretty much everything I was going to say. Great post.

Our school curriculums need something like Applied Mathematics, but going all the way back to kindergarten. Learning math purely as an abstraction is not particularly useful or intuitive for a child, and can actually hinder their ability to truly understand the purpose of these concepts.

The reliance on rote memorization of math is probably the #1 reason why people find it largely unimportant with respect to their daily lives.

 

[New002]

I do all my math in cursive.

 

[deltatheta]

Any work in science or engineering relies on math knowledge. If you're just a cog in a machine, you probably don't need it, but technological advancement is pretty important for the economy and humanity at large so it makes sense to carpet bomb children with math so that anyone with an aptitude for it gets exposed and has a chance to develop their talents.

 

[brainchild]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETt8GJRbqLc

This is amazing! LOL

 

[Dryk]

What does GAF think about History? How important is it that a working adult know all the president's birthdays?

Names and dates are the most useless parts of history though. Actually learning about history, the how and the why, that's incredibly important for a working adult.

 

[zeroroute]

It's all about the three Rs - Reading,Riting,Rithmatic

 

[Relentless 757]

You said pretty much everything I was going to say. Great post.

Our school curriculums need something like Applied Mathematics, but going all the way back to kindergarten. Learning math purely as an abstraction is not particularly useful or intuitive for a child, and can actually hinder their ability to truly understand the purpose of these concepts.

The reliance on rote memorization of math is probably the #1 reason why people find it largely unimportant with respect to their daily lives.

I can agree with this. All too often did I hear the ol' "why do we need to know this?" I could easily make connections to applications of math the moment I would learn a concept (well, except for series in calc II...why?), but for many it wasn't so obvious.

It would also be beneficial to teach calculus starting in middle school, and basic mathematical functions in middle school...or so I think.

 

[wintersheir]

Knowing real grammar is incredibly useful. There are a lot of silly prescriptivist rules like split infinitives (never been a thing in english, that rule comes from people trying to make english be latin) but other rules about verb tenses and sentence construction make your writing so much more specific and effective.

No because it takes years to teach maths up to that level. You can rush it but it's not advisable.

I wish my school had taught some basic programming instead of spending all that time on cursive writing, if I'd had a little more grounding in it I like to think I wouldn't have struggled so much with C in university. Imagine trying to do algebra for the first time at a university pace and course load, hell no.

 

[kswiston]

If computer programming/computer science was a mandatory part of education from at least middle school, I think fewer kids would find math pointless.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I can agree with this. All too often did I hear the ol' "why do we need to know this?" I could easily make connections to applications of math the moment I would learn a concept (well, except for series in calc II...why?), but for many it wasn't so obvious.

It would also be beneficial to teach calculus starting in middle school, and basic mathematical functions in middle school...or so I think.

There's a lot of use for series in mathematical probability and statistics.

 

[Feep]

This is all anyone can say as a defense when I bring this stuff up.

It was easy to YOU, but it wasn't for me. I hated it, and I failed the class I had to take this stuff in three times before I passed, and it really fucked up my grades.

Also, it doesn't matter if it's easy. I'm talking about how fucking pointless it is. I will NEVER use this stuff, ever ever again, and it wasted so much of my time, and fucked up my academics, that I will always hate it.

I'd be absolutely fine with being required to take a statistics and economics class. But not this bullshit.

Mathematics is applied problem solving. I'm sorry if you think learning how to use information to solve problems is useless, but most people with an education require that skill.

 

[op_ivy]

A calculator only solves the problems you give it. Math skills can help you set up a problem to solve.