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Replaying Breath of the Wild Has Changed My Opinion On This Game
- Thread starter Kevin Shields
- Start date
Kevin Shields
Member
I think you hit spot on how I feel. I'm a meat kinda guy in open world games with some side content here and there. The meat here is the world and the dungeons, shrines, seeds, mazes, towns etc are all just a small part of that. Once I realized the meat was exploration and that exploration was not just filler between the meat dungeons, my whole perspective on the game shifted
Now would the game even bettter if they had a couple more divine beasts and they were all high quality. Of course. However I actually don't think putting you in a long dungeon would benefit what the game was going for. Everything here is part of "the Wild" and so the beasts really play well into that philosophy. I wish they were better and a couple more and it really would of hit the sweet spot for me.
I'm having a blast with this second playthrough though and I freaking hate how addicted I am. I'm still on my mission to replay all the zeldas and I finished Twilight but while I was halfway through skyward Sword, I started this again. Well after 100 hours I'll return to my mission
The puzzles you see in BoTW obliterate anything in OoT.
LordKasual
Banned
no worries, the post you quoted was quite vague to be fair
I can understand when we're talking about posts pages back. I can even understand posts that have multiple responses, i slip up quoting people like that all the time...but when people literally can't finish a sentence before ignoring the rest of the post and hitting the quote button...like, jesus dude.
Pretty much, yeah.
I say games are kind of like food / music / art. We can judge them objectively, but only to a certain degree. After that, it's basically just down to your personal opinion, yeah?
But when we review game mechanics, we have to tone down the bias to a reasonable degree so that we can discuss the game from a level playing field. So when someone decides to review the game's mechanics objectively, but the title of their article is clearly displaying the most extreme bias that's even possible for a review to have ("this is the best/worst thing ever")...i can't take that review serious. I can already see where the writer's head is at.
Of course, this objection honestly has nothing to do with the game itself. It's relevant to Zelda because it's a very precious IP to people (lol clearly), but even if I personally thought it was the best game ever designed in the universe, I still wouldn't be pretentious or shortsighted enough to title an article like that. But that's just me.
Frost Walrus
Member
Normally, when I play a Zelda game, I'm all about the dungeons. Everything in-between is kind of filler. This was true even in games like OoT and LttP, and looking back I think the reason I like those games so much is because they didn't fill much space in-between each dungeon. Then you start getting to games like SS that have excellent dungeons but a shitload of stuff I couldn't care less about in-between each one.
BotW however has a much different aim than previous Zeldas. It's all about the moment-to-moment gameplay, the exploration, with significantly smaller dungeon set pieces sprinkled throughout. No longer was I playing just to get to the next dungeon. It scratched a very different itch for me, and for that it felt like a much-needed
for the series. That's just me though.
BotW however has a much different aim than previous Zeldas. It's all about the moment-to-moment gameplay, the exploration, with significantly smaller dungeon set pieces sprinkled throughout. No longer was I playing just to get to the next dungeon. It scratched a very different itch for me, and for that it felt like a much-needed
breath of fresh air
I completely agree. Maybe we're the minority, but I love the large amount of small puzzle trials spread all over the map. Feels good to discover them and they don't waste too much of my time. It makes every part of the world feel more important to me. Exploration is the main focus and the dungeons are an excellent reward for that.
People think dungeons are the most important part in Zelda, when in reality puzzles are. What's a dungeon with no puzzles? BotW has the best puzzles in the series. They are particularly amazing because of all the new gameplay elements that make them feel fresh.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
Its not just puzzles that make a good dungeon. A good dungeon has its own narrative and unique audiovisual elements and puzzle themes. Shrines all look and sound the same, have the same enemy, and wildly sporadic quality. This part is important because all you can really look forward to in the games puzzle segments is the physics based puzzles, since you're never going to find any interesting new item or tool that lends back to the dungeons design.
You're then rewarded with an canned scene with an orb flying at you from a sheikah mummy which is 100% inconsequential other than making the game easier.
The Divine Beasts had more going on, but their narrative was essentially "get the panels and beat the guy who beat me 100 years ago"
Visually they suffer from the same problem as shrines, being that theyre all a single shade of brown and have the same enemy from the shrines (unless you count the black goo as an enemy)
The puzzles and level design in the Divine beasts are more interesting than pretty much any Zelda before. The only thing they need to be is longer.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
you're welcome to an opinion, but it would be nice to hear why you believe this.
Prince of Space
Banned
Not at all; Skyward Sword's problems were apparent from day one.
lwilliams3
Member
Personally, I don't have as much time as I used to have to finish dungeons like OoT without interruption, so I do love the shrines and their mini-dungeon nature. This is also the first Zelda since Zelda I tin which I feel that Im making my own story to the end.
I'm about 40 hours into BotW and I'm still not sure I like it. There are so many annoying things about it that make me CRAZY. It is, however, compelling enough to keep playing. Here are my top issues.
1.) Shrines. I now dread them. They were fun for the first 15 or so, and now at about 25 shrines done I simply hate them. They're not rewarding, too easy, sometimes too control-fiddly, and ugh. Just no.
2.) Cooking. It's not enjoyable in the slightest. It might be if there were a cookbook or something that stored known recipes. But nope. Just annoying. Making multiple meals is just a CHORE.
3.) Draw distance. This pisses me right off. Oh look how empty and desolate that rocks looks. I'll just paraglide there and OH MY GOD TWENTY BADDIES JUST WARPED INTO VIEW AND NOW I'M DEAD. It's super annoying and has gotten me killed numerous times. I have a couple of screenshots where it's laughable how bad the character draw distances are.
4.) Some enemies are pretty darn tough. So for that toughness they should at least drop something worthwhile. But many don't.
5.) Breakable weapons. I get why they went this direction, but it doesn't fully work, and it's annoying.
6.) Open chest. New weapon! INVENTORY FULL. FUUUU.
7.) No real map system makes me crazy. Have I been to that tiny area yet? No idea. There's no way to know. Why? Why?!
Overall, it's a decent game but it is heavily - HEAVILY - overrated. Not to mention it's pretty much impossible to beat fully without a guide, which bothers the organic collectionist freak in me considerably.
Adam Prime
hates soccer, is Mexican
I don't "get" the complaints about no dungeons... The entire world IS a dungeon.
I put get in quotes, because I do understand people are talking about traditional Zelda, but I love what they do here more. Being in the overworld is other Zelda games has always been the boring/breather sections of the game. This game has pockets of those in the overworld too, but there are a lot of pockets of danger and problem solving in the world itself.
I'm good with this style. If BOTW2 was a whole new world with four more mini dungeons and shrines, I'd be good with that. Ocarina/Majora 3D exist and those are still fun to replay if you need your fix.
I put get in quotes, because I do understand people are talking about traditional Zelda, but I love what they do here more. Being in the overworld is other Zelda games has always been the boring/breather sections of the game. This game has pockets of those in the overworld too, but there are a lot of pockets of danger and problem solving in the world itself.
I'm good with this style. If BOTW2 was a whole new world with four more mini dungeons and shrines, I'd be good with that. Ocarina/Majora 3D exist and those are still fun to replay if you need your fix.
Adam Prime
hates soccer, is Mexican
It's all good bro. When GAF has that thread pop up "Objectively Great 10/10 Games that were not for me." ...You'll have something to say.
We all have our games that are objectively good that are not for us. It's okay.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
they start to get old on the 16th playthrough tho
"go play the old ones if you like them so much" doesn't address the things people genuinely disliked about BOTW
UnemployedVillain
Member
Many shrines give you special items, with added buffs, so most of them are useful actually. In addition to generally helping you gain more hearts and stamina, which makes adventuring much easier.
The system works just fine. You're too attached to the weapons you have, but I've NEVER been in a situation where I didn't have enough weapons for a fight or encounter. Enemies constantly drop them, and harder enemy camps usually have chests as well.
So? Replace an item. Maybe start finding kokorok seeds and expanding your inventory slots
This is somewhat annoying, however in their DLC pack it actually shows everywhere you've traversed (and it's retroactive, meaning the game has already been tracking it)
That sounds like a personal problem. The only thing that's nearly impossible without a guide is finding kokorok seeds. Everything else is very much doable. The problem is that at 40 hours you think you're far int he game when it seems like you haven't fully mastered the systems yet
Right! Me too!
Idk if I would ever replay this game since I kinda 100% it my first playthrough. ( Except for korok seeds, fuck those )
Like what exactly would I get out of replaying this game if I saw everything there is to expect.
Idk maybe I could do a speed run of how fast I could get to Gannon? Or try beating him without doing Devine beasts? But....that's all the replay value I would get. Which would be pretty short.
Like what exactly would I get out of replaying this game if I saw everything there is to expect.
Idk maybe I could do a speed run of how fast I could get to Gannon? Or try beating him without doing Devine beasts? But....that's all the replay value I would get. Which would be pretty short.
For me, these are the only dungeons in a Zelda game that are actually fun to complete.
It's like a scavenger hunt in a super cool wide open area, not a cramped puzzle-by-puzzle labyrinth.
DeuceGamer
Member
1.) Some are easy, but some are also really clever and take some time to figure out.
2.) Could be streamlined
3.) Playing the Switch version and it never got me killed but maybe that's due to different play styles. Could be improved though.
4.) Tough enemies typically do drop good items. Jewels, monster parts, and weapons.
5.) I may be the only person that likes the strategy involved with having to plan around breakable weapons. Maybe I just like the survival aspect it sort of brings
6.) Inventory is expandable
7.) No map details make you have to explore, which is a key design choice and one I thoroughly enjoyed. Making my own map, though I would like even more icons to use and more available
They never intended for you to collect every Korok seed so they shouldn't have used those towards the 100% clear rate. Otherwise I think it's all doable without a guide.
Jim_Cacher
Member
Regarding the exploration, the Hebra Region is really really well-done. Full of surprises and creativity.
TalentAlwaysWins
Banned
This is exactly how I feel about it. I was disappointed. It doesn't help how overhyped it is... if it didn't have the zelda stuff in it Idk how I'd feel about the game overall. It's not terrible but it ain't that great either. I wish it was more linear
Yes. Clearly. Almost done with
3 of the divine beasts
Too attached to my weapons? Really? What's next? GTA VI with cars that break down? Oh that's no issue since there are lots of cars around to jack when your current model's transmission just breaks due to over-acceleration. It's just not as much fun to have to keep weapon juggling. It's just not. Same goes for limited arrows. Again, as with weapon juggling I get why they did it - it's just not always fun.
DLC will show you where you've been? Oh that's helpful NOW when many/most of us will have beaten the game months before. No doubt this will be free DLC, right? Right? Right? And does the fact that it's happening at all mean the decision they made originally was just a poor one?
I like how you ignored my other gripes. That's usually what we call beer goggles for a game that's nowhere near as good as some make it out to be.
Look at this BS. Took me ages to find the freaking quest giver because of the crap draw distance. Even when you use the camera to zoom in it doesn't resolve this. Ridiculous.
polyh3dron
Banned
This, and do away with the weapon durability thing. Normal sword, master sword, bow, boomerang, bombs, etc.
Not actually. The world is full of excellent little puzzles and details and enemy battles etc etc and its design is pretty brilliant for the most part. But dungeons in the Zelda series are obviously quite different. Each is a closed, condensed environment with a particular theme. Layers overlap each other, puzzles intersect, etc. The divine beasts are essentially dungeons, except they share the same aesthetic and approach. It's cute to say that the world itself is a dungeon but for the most part it's a very different, very expansive experience full of travelling and exploring that is obviously nothing like the dungeons people are requesting.
That said, given how amazing the world is in this game, I can forgive the absence of traditional dungeons. But....I'd like to have both.
polyh3dron
Banned
I've used up all the special items I could carry, and found a lot of them that I couldn't carry at the time I came across them. Now I have to fight guardians but I'm broke and am out of shields. I don't want to go back to the game now because I have to spend a ton of time to farm materials for more items that will break again. It's not fun.
p_xavier
Authorized Fister
I'd rather do real chores than to do virtual chores. I don't comprehend how people can defend the food/breakable weapons systems.
It's easy to defend it if you don't hate it. Nothing really wrong with it. It could be in the next game, and I wouldn't mind it at all, had weapons for days.
lwilliams3
Member
Yes. Clearly. Almost done withso clearly I'm nowhere, right? Zero master of the game, clearly.3 of the divine beasts
Too attached to my weapons? Really? What's next? GTA VI with cars that break down? Oh that's no issue since there are lots of cars around to jack when your current model's transmission just breaks due to over-acceleration. It's just not as much fun to have to keep weapon juggling. It's just not. Same goes for limited arrows. Again, as with weapon juggling I get why they did it - it's just not always fun.
DLC will show you where you've been? Oh that's helpful NOW when many/mkst of us will have beaten the game months before. No doubt this will be free DLC, right? Right? Right?
I like how you ignored my other gripes. That's usually what we call beer goggles for a game that's nowhere near as good as some make it out to be.
Look at this BS. Took me ages to find the freaking quest giver because of the crap draw distance. Even when you use then camera to zoom in it doesn't resolve this. Ridiculous.
I finished has much as the story as you have, and I can say that I haven't mastered jack. For the type of game this is, that doesn't tell you everything, anyway. There are still a ton of things you can missed while
completing the story.
The poster that replied to you before probably did not reply to everything you posted due to a lot of things being subjective. Personally, for example, that joke about GTAVI having breakable cars sounds like an interesting idea.
Honestly, I don't understand why you are getting worked up.
easy, because it's fun
I finished has much as the story as you have, and I can say that I haven't mastered jack. For the type of game this is, that doesn't tell you everything, anyway. There are still a ton of things you can missed while
completing the story.
The poster that replied to you before probably did not reply to everything you posted due to a lot of things being subjective. Personally, for example, that joke about GTAVI having breakable cars sounds like an interesting idea.
Honestly, I don't understand why you are getting worked up.
I'm not that worked up. Just don't like being told what I have or haven't mastered, when Random Internet Guy has no idea.
Missing stuff is not the same as not having mastered stuff. I'm sure there's SOME stuff left to "master" but clearly at this point I've mastered the majority of the big stuff.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
Every dungeon in OOT was iconic? I mean that's news to me. All I ever hear about is the Water Temple, and when I played the game back then, I thought the Forest Temple was a bore, Fire Temple was just okay, Shadow Temple was forgettable for me, and the only dungeon I really liked was the Spirit Temple. I don't hear anything about the dungeons being iconic in other sites, forums, or through reviews.
Not to say that BOTW did better, but it did break away from dungeon conventions that I thought should stay in the past (shoot this eye to open the door! etc).
UnemployedVillain
Member
Divine beasts alone aren't a sign of progress. I'd almost argue shrines are, because at least that shows you've been exposed to a variety of puzzles and have to had explored a decent amount of the map. A person can easily only go for the beasts and ignore everything else.
This isn't GTA. The whole game is built on constantly replacing weapons, with no penalty. With GTA stealing cars always come with that inherent risk of raising your warning level. It's not the same at all. Also, limited arrows? You find TONS of them EVERYWHERE. Enemy archers almost always drop them, and most camps have archers on watch posts.
What part of "This is somewhat annoying" means I'm disagreeing with you? I'm just saying it's something that could be done better, but they're at least releasing a feature to address it. But sure, you're entitled to keep bitching about it not being already in
You mean omitted the ones I agreed with? Did I need to say "I agree" for each one?
Look at this BS. Took me ages to find the freaking quest giver because of the crap draw distance. Even when you use the camera to zoom in it doesn't resolve this. Ridiculous.
The pop-in is annoying as fuck, especially when you're paragliding into an enemy encampment. I've never missed a question giver because of it...and in your picture it seems odd you didn't walk to the end of the dock. But yeah
Common Knowledge
Member
I definitely would have preferred some more visual variety and personality throughout the shrines and Divine Beasts, and I think that goes for the vast majority of people, no matter what their opinion is of the game. But when it comes to the actual content of them (i.e. the puzzles), I feel so much more satisfaction from solving BotW's harder shrines than I did from any singular dungeon puzzle in another Zelda game.
Older dungeons in the series were great for their themes and atmosphere (and I hope that returns in the future), but when it comes to actually progressing through them, most except for a few notable exceptions don't actually make me stop and think too hard about much of anything outside of considering prior areas I could maybe return to with new items or keys. Most individual puzzles of the series, especially if you're a series veteran, boil down to looking for fairly obvious and repetitive visual cues indicating what to use and when. And even if you did get stuck on something, you could typically "brute force" your way to the solution by just using every item you have on any notable object until something activates or changes.
With BotW, I am more constantly made to think in multiple dimensions at once and use just common logic and physics to think about how things are going to react and change with my interactions. Instead of my items simply being the solution in and of themselves half the time like in prior games, my items and abilities are instead merely the start of the thinking I go through to solve many of the puzzles. It inspires creativity in many ways, and, even with puzzles that are, in the end, mainly only solvable in one major way, I feel much more smart because it pushes you to think cleverly to reach that conclusion.
I'm more than welcoming to the the idea of standard, large, themed dungeons returning in a future game, but when it comes to the puzzles themselves, I don't see myself ever being able to go back to the old standard.
Older dungeons in the series were great for their themes and atmosphere (and I hope that returns in the future), but when it comes to actually progressing through them, most except for a few notable exceptions don't actually make me stop and think too hard about much of anything outside of considering prior areas I could maybe return to with new items or keys. Most individual puzzles of the series, especially if you're a series veteran, boil down to looking for fairly obvious and repetitive visual cues indicating what to use and when. And even if you did get stuck on something, you could typically "brute force" your way to the solution by just using every item you have on any notable object until something activates or changes.
With BotW, I am more constantly made to think in multiple dimensions at once and use just common logic and physics to think about how things are going to react and change with my interactions. Instead of my items simply being the solution in and of themselves half the time like in prior games, my items and abilities are instead merely the start of the thinking I go through to solve many of the puzzles. It inspires creativity in many ways, and, even with puzzles that are, in the end, mainly only solvable in one major way, I feel much more smart because it pushes you to think cleverly to reach that conclusion.
I'm more than welcoming to the the idea of standard, large, themed dungeons returning in a future game, but when it comes to the puzzles themselves, I don't see myself ever being able to go back to the old standard.
lwilliams3
Member
To keep your shield from breaking fast, you have to learn how to time your blocks. The game really punish you for that: a guardian can destroy most shields in one blow. In terms of weapons, I found it best to use the non-special weapons like bodkin arms (or spamming bombs) for killing minor enemies, and save the special ones for major ones. This will get easier to play around with when you get the
Master Sword,
I thought managing/expanding your stash was a cool feature, actually. I always have the bestest weapons, and the system teaches you to improvise rather than rely on the same old things.
The first time I threw a boomerang and discovered you had to manually catch it was like holy shit, lol.
The Y button sorting everything is a godsend.
Thebullfrog
Member
I put something like 130 hours into my first play through. Over the weekend I wiped my save and started over. I agonized over it for a while, but my God am I glad I did it. My second run has been so much better than the first. I was afraid it would feel repetitive, the luster would wear off, and I'd wind up enjoying it less.
The opposite happened in a big way. Not being pushed forward by my own curiosity and excitement I was able to slow way down, and also go and try new things. I think I put like 6 hours into the Plateau alone. Discovered and experienced so many new things already, and I haven't even gotten to my first shrine/town/tower off the plateau yet. Plus, not being overpowered with gear put me back into "survival" mode again, and it feels so much better than the "end game" where I was unlimited and everything felt trivial. All the magic of the first time is still there, and then some. Not being distracted by learning the game, not feeling the need to rush ahead, just taking my time and really diving into things it's like everything I loved about it before is being magnified.
I was reserving final judgement of my feelings on the game until the initial honeymoon phase wore off and I gave the game another run through. I still feel the same way: this really is the game that may finally, after all these years (decades) knock Super Metroid off of it's podium as my all time favorite game.
The opposite happened in a big way. Not being pushed forward by my own curiosity and excitement I was able to slow way down, and also go and try new things. I think I put like 6 hours into the Plateau alone. Discovered and experienced so many new things already, and I haven't even gotten to my first shrine/town/tower off the plateau yet. Plus, not being overpowered with gear put me back into "survival" mode again, and it feels so much better than the "end game" where I was unlimited and everything felt trivial. All the magic of the first time is still there, and then some. Not being distracted by learning the game, not feeling the need to rush ahead, just taking my time and really diving into things it's like everything I loved about it before is being magnified.
I was reserving final judgement of my feelings on the game until the initial honeymoon phase wore off and I gave the game another run through. I still feel the same way: this really is the game that may finally, after all these years (decades) knock Super Metroid off of it's podium as my all time favorite game.
What the hell is up with people claiming that this game doesn't have any dungeons??
The Lost Woods is a dungeon.
The labyrinths are dungeons.
Eventide Island is a dungeon.
The path to Zora's Domain is a dungeon.
The Yiga Clan Hideout is a dungeon.
And so on.
This is a completely ridiculous complaint. It shows a massive lack of understanding of the game's overall design.
The Lost Woods is a dungeon.
The labyrinths are dungeons.
Eventide Island is a dungeon.
The path to Zora's Domain is a dungeon.
The Yiga Clan Hideout is a dungeon.
And so on.
This is a completely ridiculous complaint. It shows a massive lack of understanding of the game's overall design.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
They mean something a bit more specific than that
you can go through all kinds of mental gymnastics to shrug off anyone who doesnt think its the best thing ever but running through the equivalent of a hedge maze is not the "zelda dungeon" people mean...
If getting to Zoras Domain is a dungeon, anything is
No, they don't. Your mindset is too narrow.
Zelda dungeons are about being in an enclosed place and overcoming a given challenge.
And yes, the path to Zora's Domain counts here as it is permanently raining when you first go there, making it an enclosed area you have to get through.
Absolutely not.
This is a hill I will die on. The durability system in BotW is the most revolutionary thing about it and all Zelda games should follow suit from here on.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
no, people have reiterated many times that they mean something very specific
its like calling the hedge maze leading to the forest temple a dungeon in OoT
you're just being intentionally obtuse here
p_xavier
Authorized Fister
Then if that is the revolution I will die with the old regime.
OrbitalBeard
Member
I don't know if the durability system is the most revolutionary thing about BotW, but I agree that it's something I hope carries forward to future games.
You are the one arguing that the game lacks an arbitrary gameplay construct just because it doesn't explicitly call it what you want.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
its not arbitrary at all. Its pretty clearly defined, and if you still cant understand what people are referring to by traditional Zelda dungeon, and compare getting to Zoras Domain to those? It doesn't make much sense at all.