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Replaying Jak 2, it's apparent Naughty Dog simply got lucky with Uncharted
- Thread starter teiresias
- Start date
out of those I like pokemon, but thats gamefreak and not nintendo.
oconnomiyaki
Member
Well, Nintendo is a publisher, not a developer. (In-house teams all have unique names and series.) Saying you hate Nintendo because you don't like Mario is like saying you don't like EA because of Madden.
Naughty Dog is a developer, and it's perfectly fair to look at their output and proclaim they make shallow, linear games that just happen to look pretty.
Yeah I really loved the vehicles, I had a lot of fun just driving from place to place whether I was zipping around the city in one of the fast zoomer cars or using one of the heavier cars to plow through anything that got in my way. Sure beats the crap out of having to walk everywhere in Jak & Daxter!
He had it right the first time.
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
BLASPHEMY!
Take that back, Heathen
Platinums are Pure, their our gifts from the developers gods to be cherished, appreciated, and loved
Also to show off dem' shinnies
Lowlander2
Banned
I replayed the HD Trilogy about six months ago, and while Jak 2 is easily my least favourite of the bunch, it's by no means bad. I actually admired the pure gall Naughty Dog had in turning this ambiguously cute yet mysterious world into a dark and cruel world. Truth be told, I don't know how much you could have achieved sticking to the first game's setting. Not enough of the lore was explained, yet a lot was hinted at. That's pretty much the only problem I have with the first game though; otherwise, it's a classic.
Jak 2 is more ambitious than it could live it up to. There's a decent amount of variety, but not enough to make up for the harsh difficulty, nor the basic gunplay not quite being up to scratch, and the game as a whole overstays its welcome because of it. It's definitely got more problems than the first one. It's fun, I really love the setting, but time has not been kind to its mechanics.
And Jak 3 was just...weird. The gameplay is perfectly fine, but they probably went overboard with the variety, leaving the pacing and story a malformed mess. Things really go awry when you
. So, I mean, it was very fun, more fun than Jak 2, but the development felt a bit rushed and sloppy all the same. Not bad by any means, just...weirdly made.
Jak 2 is more ambitious than it could live it up to. There's a decent amount of variety, but not enough to make up for the harsh difficulty, nor the basic gunplay not quite being up to scratch, and the game as a whole overstays its welcome because of it. It's definitely got more problems than the first one. It's fun, I really love the setting, but time has not been kind to its mechanics.
And Jak 3 was just...weird. The gameplay is perfectly fine, but they probably went overboard with the variety, leaving the pacing and story a malformed mess. Things really go awry when you
come back to Spargus after leaving for Haven City
Try playing all of Naughty Dog's games before typing something ridiculous like "first ever gameplay-first game". Crash Bandicoot is currently laughing at you.
With the backlog that Naughty Dog has, you should have said:
"Replaying Jak 2, it's apparent Naughty Dog simply got unlucky with it" not the other way around.
ND Gamerankings PS1 era:
Crash Bandicoot = 80 %
Crash Bandicoot 2= 88 %
Crash Bandicoot 3 = 90%
CTR = 92 %
ND Gamerankings PS2 era:
Jak = 90 %
Jak 2 = 88 %
Jak 3 = 86 %
Jak x = 77 %
ND Gamerankings PS3 era:
Uncharted = 90 %
Uncharted 2 = 96%
Uncharted 3 = 92 %
Yes naughtydog surely is one trick pony. after crash naughty dog has only made on average game and that is jak x rest are all good to great games
Crash Bandicoot = 80 %
Crash Bandicoot 2= 88 %
Crash Bandicoot 3 = 90%
CTR = 92 %
ND Gamerankings PS2 era:
Jak = 90 %
Jak 2 = 88 %
Jak 3 = 86 %
Jak x = 77 %
ND Gamerankings PS3 era:
Uncharted = 90 %
Uncharted 2 = 96%
Uncharted 3 = 92 %
Yes naughtydog surely is one trick pony. after crash naughty dog has only made on average game and that is jak x rest are all good to great games
Black Republican
Member
shut this thread down, iam disgust
Don'tBeWeird
Member
Terrible fucking thread.
"ND are one-trick ponies because er, um, JAK 2 sucked."
As others have pointed out, ND created two of the best platformers for their respective consoles and the greatest kart racer ever made. They've successfully tackled three completely different genres in three different generations. This is where the OP's argument instantly caves in on itself. That alone already proves that ND has more creative diversity and achieves a higher standard of quality than at least 80% of dev teams out there.
Yes, there are some minor similarities between Uncharted and The Last of Us. It doesn't take a genius to realise that the Uncharted series got some things very, very right. It was a winning formula. Now ND are taking what they learnt from the Uncharted series, they're refining it and making it better. How is this a bad thing?
Oh wait, you want ND to hop from genre to to genre, never allowing them to specialise in something that very clearly works for them. Hell, while you're at it, why don't you make a thread asking ND to switch their name to ADHD Dogs. The whole argument is completely idiotic. It's like questioning the competency of Valve for making first person games all the time, or like criticising Kojima Productions for not making a racing game. Dev teams will hone in on what works for them. It does not mean that if they attempted to create another game in another genre it would somehow fall apart.
You should be thankful that we're getting a new IP this late into the generation. Naughty Dog are actually doing something new, whereas the majoirty of the big development teams are making sequel after sequel.
"ND are one-trick ponies because er, um, JAK 2 sucked."
As others have pointed out, ND created two of the best platformers for their respective consoles and the greatest kart racer ever made. They've successfully tackled three completely different genres in three different generations. This is where the OP's argument instantly caves in on itself. That alone already proves that ND has more creative diversity and achieves a higher standard of quality than at least 80% of dev teams out there.
Yes, there are some minor similarities between Uncharted and The Last of Us. It doesn't take a genius to realise that the Uncharted series got some things very, very right. It was a winning formula. Now ND are taking what they learnt from the Uncharted series, they're refining it and making it better. How is this a bad thing?
Oh wait, you want ND to hop from genre to to genre, never allowing them to specialise in something that very clearly works for them. Hell, while you're at it, why don't you make a thread asking ND to switch their name to ADHD Dogs. The whole argument is completely idiotic. It's like questioning the competency of Valve for making first person games all the time, or like criticising Kojima Productions for not making a racing game. Dev teams will hone in on what works for them. It does not mean that if they attempted to create another game in another genre it would somehow fall apart.
You should be thankful that we're getting a new IP this late into the generation. Naughty Dog are actually doing something new, whereas the majoirty of the big development teams are making sequel after sequel.
Acrylic7
Member
my man, really? REALLY?
this thread is absolutely terrible.
I'm curious to what the other 2 games were. Up Your Arsenal, and DMC3?
Call of Duty Finest Hour and some garbage I don't remember anymore.
What is it you found substandard about something like the first Jak? Originality aside, what was fundamentally wrong with its take on the Mario 64 model?
ShipTheCheese
Member
Not particularly liking a game is okay by me. But talking shit about a game developing studio i've loved dearly ever since the original Crash was released? Not cool, dude.
Messofanego
Banned
Hey now, I actually backed up my points. OP didn't even elaborate.
maverick40
Junior Member
This, especially on hero mode. No one tested that shit at naughty dog.
I tried it maybe 50 quadrillion times on hero mode. Never made it. Controls are shit. Had to use a bug to get to a mission after that to finish the game on hero mode :/
Glass Rebel
Member
Visualante2
Member
I was listening to Tim Rogers chat about this game on Insert Credit last night, 'cause he did a Kotaku piece praising this game. I kind of feel like he chose it because it allows him to simultaneously vote for both Grand Theft Auto III and Jak and Daxter (both of which are superb games). I didn't care for 2. I didn't finish it but I think it's audacious to call Naughty Dog lucky, I'm playing Uncharted 2 for the first time now and it's pretty competent outside the shooting and Crash Bandicoot was a fine series. Jak and Daxter was actually the first game I remember laughing out loud at, I had such a great time with it and I'm actually laughing out loud at Uncharted 2 in places. Naughty Dog do something very right, that few others manage.
One of the things I don't get is people talked about how great Naughty Dog were for introducing variable difficulty, if you suck at the game we'll make it easier? A good concept but they waited too long to make it easier. I heard you have to fail 15 times before they reduce the difficulty in some levels. With those checkpoints why bother?
I can see why people like it on a value proposition, but I can't help but feel Jak got tainted with 2.
One of the things I don't get is people talked about how great Naughty Dog were for introducing variable difficulty, if you suck at the game we'll make it easier? A good concept but they waited too long to make it easier. I heard you have to fail 15 times before they reduce the difficulty in some levels. With those checkpoints why bother?
I can see why people like it on a value proposition, but I can't help but feel Jak got tainted with 2.
From what I remember ctr was more interesting to play than diddy kong racing thanks to shortcuts and the racing closer to mario kart but speaking of shortcuts, it's how you see the tracks were really lacking polish. The amount of sequence break, skipping very large parts of the tracks felt very unbalanced, worst than what you have in f-zero x for example. Also I thought mario kart 64 was glitched but crash is up there.
Still naughty dog nowaday doesn't seem to care about that kind of challenging gameplay, elevating the medium like they say.
Still naughty dog nowaday doesn't seem to care about that kind of challenging gameplay, elevating the medium like they say.
Vlodril
Member
I disagree completely. I do not like any Nintedo games does that make Nintedo a shitty company? Hello no. Different tastes and all.
Its not like ND games are unplayable messes with low fps or other technical problems that makes it impossible to play the game after a while (see bethesda).
I'm currently playing through Uncharted Goden Abyss (the Vita one). It plays almost exactly like the PS3 ones, but lacks the jaw dropping visuals.
When stripped of the wow graphics, it becomes obvious just how poor the gameplay actually is in the series. The shooting is fairly dull, platforming devoid of any challenge, and puzzles are laughable. The game is also completely linear with zero room for exploration.
I also just bought and started playing Tomb Raider Underworld during the last Steam sale and have to say that despite it's poor combat mechanics, I find that from an overall gameplay perspective, it compares favourably to any of the Uncharteds.
When stripped of the wow graphics, it becomes obvious just how poor the gameplay actually is in the series. The shooting is fairly dull, platforming devoid of any challenge, and puzzles are laughable. The game is also completely linear with zero room for exploration.
I also just bought and started playing Tomb Raider Underworld during the last Steam sale and have to say that despite it's poor combat mechanics, I find that from an overall gameplay perspective, it compares favourably to any of the Uncharteds.
I have to admit that this disappointed me about the game; I was expecting much better platforming, which is why the first game left a sour taste in my mouth. I went into Uncharted 2 with a much better idea of what to expect, and enjoyed it significantly more as a result.
Still, I'd love for an Uncharted game to do the sort of platforming I'd like to see. I'm sure they're capable of it, but I'm not entirely sure it's what the mass audience would prefer.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
Don't do this.
NinjaBoiX
Member
Post like this are so condescending. It's not even cute.
OP, I think you're under selling ND. "They stumbled on a formula they were competent at with Uncharted?"
Yeah, Uncharted is merely "competent".
Hot Coldman
Banned
Jak 2 has great platforming, but the rest makes me want to start burning down schools in case the kids within go on to make a game as frustrating as this one.
Uncharted is fucking excellent.
Uncharted is fucking excellent.
I'm very much into the history of gaming, and one skill I've picked up is the ability to enjoy a game played now in the context of when it came out; I'm perfectly content playing games 20+ years old without instantly writing them off compared to modern titles.
I wouldn't completely call it rose-tinted glasses, though, because I try not to be blind to the flaws that still exist; about a year ago I played through The Elder Scrolls: Arena, and was impressed by the sheer size of the game - but also acknowledged that the size sometimes went a bit too far, with the important story quest dungeons being *far* too expansive, even from the very start. Scale purely for the sake of scale, impressive just to impress. And I've still got Daggerfall to come!
My point is that it's not necessarily automatic to have newer titles taint your impression of older ones. Although, as one further aside, I do have a tendency to deliberately play series in order - even if there's little plot continuation - in part to try to see how the mechanics evolve over time.
You could describe him as smoldering with generic rage.
LOL.
Jak 2 is one of my favorite games ever. I've played it about 4 or 5 times total and was so happy with the HD collection released last year. I'd play it over the first one any day. It has its flaws, but I feel so does every game and when all is said and done, I had plenty of fun with it.
I think they're all good though I much prefer the likes of Jak 2 and Jak 3 over Jak & Daxter.
Jak 2 is one of my favorite games ever. I've played it about 4 or 5 times total and was so happy with the HD collection released last year. I'd play it over the first one any day. It has its flaws, but I feel so does every game and when all is said and done, I had plenty of fun with it.
I think they're all good though I much prefer the likes of Jak 2 and Jak 3 over Jak & Daxter.
It actually started wrong.
haha thumbs up.
Good post.
Having an opinion is fine, but to outright say something is bad, especially crash freaking bandicoot as a couple people in this thread have had the odacity to say, marks you as someone whos opinion im not interested in even giving the slightest ear to.
What is the decent into anarchy and alternate universe in which crash bandicoot is a bad game?
Are people actually being serious? like when you bought your PS1 and put in crash bandicoot into your console for the first time, started playing one of the more timeless and flawless platformers of all time, you said to yourself "this sucks!" and threw it away with great contempt?
I feel like that cant have happened.
The only logical explination i can think of is that you changed your mind at some point to mark yourself as different than every other person on the planet, so that you could be some weathered critic whos the only person clever enough to see the flaws in this universally praised game.
I go back and play Crash and think "this game STILL looks and plays flawlessly."
lol, I remember being shown (and playing) Crash before it was even mentioned in magazines (a Sony rep paid a visit with a handful of alpha code games and a dev PS1)...one of my greatest gaming memories - f/f to Jak & Daxter and you have my favourite (ok 2nd to MGS3) game on PS2 and forward again to Uncharted 2 (my fave this gen).
I recently started replaying J&D in 3D and I've not had a big smile on my face whilst gaming for such a long time...ND do far too much right for it to be luck...roll on PS4!
I recently started replaying J&D in 3D and I've not had a big smile on my face whilst gaming for such a long time...ND do far too much right for it to be luck...roll on PS4!
Nah, there's a glitch for cloning them. It's not difficult; just takes a bit of time and repetition.
That it's your opinion that those observations are incorrect and that they're not objectively false.
So...Uncharted then? =P
Ah yes, because if you don't like Jak 2, you must be a dumb dudebro. Solid deduction.
Does anyone really need further proof that the game sucks??
Uh, that's exactly what Jak 2 was leaning toward.