Support NeoGAF

[commedieu]

Or nutrional value, or your health, or taste

Or, it's the only thing you can afford In your area.

 

[Omegasquash]

"Lazy fat people how dare they eat cheap and filling food! They should cook instead those fat lazy fucks! Who cares that you just finished a 10 hour shift and your kids are hungry!"

In a few words? Good parents. Parents that make the choice. I get that it's not easy, and more often than not (in some situations) challenging, but you have got to draw the line somewhere.

We need to not accept the situation that many of us are in, but we also need to accept that the situation won't change unless we demand it. It would be stupidly easy to not make my son an relatively nutritious breakfast and just hit up Dunkin Donuts on the way to school. Hell, he'd love it. It would be really easy to call in delivery on my way home after a long day and commute, but I don't. It takes work and effort.

I'm not saying that everyone is just a bunch of lazy shits...I'm saying it's a situation that they're in, they're used to and that they won't see the negative repercussions of until it's too late (especially since they just get the immediate fulfillment). But everyone has to make a choice and stick with it. Goes without saying that it's tougher for some than others, and that's where I think that institutional changes need to take place. Accountability is on both sides.

 

[ClassyPenguin]

You are terrible at arguing

"Here is a link that makes half my point and agrees with what you say about being difficult for some people"

Show me on that link where it's literally impossible. Please.

Fucking hell, what did I say? "Look, you can pick and choose all kinds of variables to get your answer and blame it on laziness or whatever BUT that's not what reports indicate."

I also prefer not talking out of my ass when I can link to a site containing the definitions and data pertaining to my argument, especially if it is a well known, legitimate resource such as the USDA.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

I always order the higher number of calories because, being the competitive gamer that I am, I want the highest score. I just wish you got achievements. Like every 1000 calories could be like an achievement you get printed on your receipt. After you get a certain amount of achievement points you can trade them in for stuff.
haha, like 10 achievement points and they give you an insulin shot at the drive thru

But seriously, it's the carbs not the fat and ..lol sugars.. as if there is actual sugar in the food. Surely, we know by now that high fructose corn syrup is not sugar. If people in the US actually understood that carb counting is far more important than fat/calorie counting things would go much simpler.

Why do you think a large fry (63gram carbs & 500+ calories) has nearly the same amount of calories in it as a quarter pounder with cheese? Carbs! And if you removed the bun you would probably find less, or about the same, amount of calories in 2 quarter pounders than 1 large fry. You will certainly see far fewer carbs without the bun, probably less than 10gram total.

 

[Danne-Danger]

The two biggest problems is that the average person doesn't realize 1) the average amount of calories they should intake in a day 2) just how much exercise that calorie count (of whatever food item) represents.

If you showed someone that the <food item> would require 45 minutes of walking to work off, they might be less apt to order it.

That's what some studies have done:



http://www.nutrition.org/asn-blog/2013/04/eb-2013-when-calories-equals-exercise-do-people-eat-less/



A second study doing the same thing

So the problem isn't the information, it's that the information needs to have more context.

"Better to not eat that burger so that I can sit on my fat ass all day!"

 

[SeanR1221]

Fucking hell, what did I say? "Look, you can pick and choose all kinds of variables to get your answer and blame it on laziness or whatever BUT that's not what reports indicate."

I also prefer not talking out of my ass when I can link to a site containing the definitions and data pertaining to my argument, especially if it is a well known, legitimate resource such as the USDA.

Never called anyone lazy and even acknowledged its hard for some.

Here, I'll give you what you want to hear to end this.

"It's hopeless. Utterly utterly hopeless. Some people only have access to soda, candy and chips, but have never seen a raw piece of chicken or a frozen piece of broccoli or even the mythical rice grain. They just don't exsist in some people's lives. Because of this they are forced to eat junk food. Bottom line."

 

[Omegasquash]

I always order the higher number of calories because, being the competitive gamer that I am, I want the highest score. I just wish you got achievements. Like every 1000 calories could be like an achievement you get printed on your receipt. After you get a certain amount of achievement points you can trade them in for stuff.

But seriously, it's the carbs not the fat and ..lol sugars.. as if there is actual sugar in the food. Surely, we know by now that high fructose corn syrup is not sugar. If people in the US actually understood that carb counting is far more important than fat/calorie counting things would go much simpler.

Why do you think a large fry (63gram carbs & 500+ calories) has nearly the same amount of calories in it as a quarter pounder with cheese? Carbs! And if you removed the bun you would probably find less, or about the same, amount of calories in 2 quarter pounders than 1 large fry. You will certainly see far fewer carbs without the bun, probably less than 10gram total.

Read labels, people. Carbs and sugars in high volume are bad, bad, bad.

 

[Trike]

Going by your edited response that still makes no sense if you understood what I was saying, I assume you are crazy and/or work for McDonalds. You seem to be arguing a point (terribly) that had nothing to do with what I said.

I was just pointing out how ridiculous it is that people are surprised that no one eats healthily at McDonalds. You are not even given many real options for that either. It is fast food, no one is expecting it to be healthy. I was not damning your imaginary single parent who works 10 hour shifts.

Also, who the hell cares either way? If you are struggling to make ends meet and work long shifts you can still find time to make a decent meal for your kids. Getting groceries means you can make healthy meals for cheaper than what you would get at McDonalds. Unless you literally are feeding everyone just one dollar menu item and nothing else.

If you work long shifts then you prepare and adapt to this. You can prep the food some before you go to work. Or even make the food in advance. If you live right in the middle of one of these "food deserts" you can still make trips to grocery stores.

 

[IamMattFox]

The bigger the number, the quicker you level up.

 

[Jim E. Rossler]

"these" people are about 2 in 3 people in the United States and rising. (1 in 3 obese, 1 in 3 overweight)

Also:

Not that chart again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evcNPfZlrZs&t=44m0s
44 minute mark since timestamps dont work

 

[ClassyPenguin]

Never called anyone lazy and even acknowledged its hard for some.

Here, I'll give you what you want to hear to end this.

"It's hopeless. Utterly utterly hopeless. Some people only have access to soda, candy and chips, but have never seen a raw piece of chicken or a frozen piece of broccoli or even the mythical rice grain. They just don't exsist in some people's lives. Because of this they are forced to eat junk food. Bottom line."

Uh, no that's not what I am saying at all. Good of you to show your bias. It's more difficult to eat healthy when your options are minimal.
Technomancer summed it up pretty well:

When you have a trend this large across a population this diverse I think its time some people start admitting that weight gain is not just a matter of "willpower" but that outside influences can have effects on people's behavior

 

[SeanR1221]

Uh, no that's not what I am saying at all. Good of you to show your bias. It's more difficult to eat healthy when your options are minimal.
Technomancer summed it up pretty well:

Yes it is what you're saying but lets keep on spinnin right round, baby

 

[timetokill]

The labeling can only do so much.

The problem is that the worst foods for you are the most prevalent, the best tasting, and the most convenient.

Until that is solved there's not going to be any real change.

Meanwhile the government promotes this unhealthy environment through policy, then tries half-assed efforts to "fix" the problem they're helping to create by putting calorie labels on things.

 

[APF]

So where exactly is a location with absolutely no access to foods like chicken, frozen vegetables and rice? But plentiful supplies of fries, candy and chips?

In NYC it's rare to have local supermarkets, but fast food joints and bodegas that sell mostly crap package food are plentiful. If you're rich you'll eat at fancier restaurants very often, or do shopping online. If you're poor you don't have a lot of options.

 

[muu]

Not too surprised by the results here. A ton of people shut down mentally when they're forced to do some critical thinking or exposed to a large amount of numbers, esp. when their priority was to get some food and then get the hell out. Caloric intake is apparently one, money issues is certainly another.

 

[Wthermans]

Math is hard.

When feds, states and municipalities continue to cut STEM education in favor of athletic budgets, it's not hard to see why we have entire generations of people that can't take care of themselves.

 

[ClassyPenguin]

When feds, states and municipalities continue to cut STEM education in favor of athletic budgets, it's not hard to see why we have entire generations of people that can't take care of themselves.

Or min. wage or food programs, health screenings, food banks or zoning laws or a lot of public policy that people in this thread are actively ignoring because "lol lazy fat people"

 

[MetatronM]

In NYC it's rare to have local supermarkets, but fast food joints and bodegas that sell mostly crap package food are plentiful. If you're rich you'll eat at fancier restaurants very often, or do shopping online. If you're poor you don't have a lot of options.

It's not really all that rare to have local supermarkets here. I live in East Harlem, and there are no fewer than 4 full-fledged supermarkets that I can think of within 4 minutes walking distance of my apartment. And if you really wanted to go for the good stuff beyond standard supermarket fare, 10 more minutes of walking (or a 2 minute subway ride) would get you to a Fairway. If I lived even further north in East Harlem, I'd have easy access to a Costco and several other supermarkets I know of.

Maybe deep into some of the poorest neighborhoods in the Bronx or Brooklyn you'll still find some true bona fide food deserts, but otherwise decent quality food is still widely available in the city. And even in poor neighborhoods, there are still fruit stands all over the place, and there are green markets that set up shop a few days a week all over the place in NYC for most of the year, including in many poor neighborhoods.

Now, sure, there are still a lot more bodegas, convenience stores, and other junk food sources than there are supermarkets, so they're certainly way more convenient most of the time, but the availability is still there if you're willing to put in even a modicum of effort.

 

[Trent Strong]

Ghettos, poor farming communities, rural towns.

Shit, even in many places in LA, you'd still have to drive and it's not easy for many people to do that because they don't own a car and rely on our horrid public transportation system.

Food deserts are a myth.

http://www.npr.org/2010/12/15/132076786/the-root-the-myth-of-the-food-desert

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/h...s-and-obesity-challenged-in-studies.html?_r=0

 

[Tylahedras]

I can say anecdotally that when I eat at fast-food restraunts (which is rare) I specifically purchase high calorie items. I want bang for my buck. The fact I'm not fat is simply a result of doing this with all foods whether good or bad, and managing my diet and exercise efficiently.

I think the issue is quality and exercise. Someone who eats at McDs every day isn't going to be healthy no matter which size coke they get.

 

[partime]

They should have their menu's connected to the internet, giving scores instead of calorie count based on user feedback.

 

[ClassyPenguin]

Food deserts are a myth.

http://www.npr.org/2010/12/15/132076786/the-root-the-myth-of-the-food-desert

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/h...s-and-obesity-challenged-in-studies.html?_r=0

Stretching really. Does not take into account the main argument: economics.

How are food deserts identified?

USDA, Treasury and HHS have defined a food desert as a census tract with a substantial share of residents who live in low-income areas that have low levels of access to a grocery store or healthy, affordable food retail outlet. Using the census tract as a unit of analysis for identifying food deserts, USDA, Treasury and HHS will give funding priority to projects and interventions that establish healthy retail outlets in defined food deserts.

Census tracts qualify as food deserts if they meet low-income and low-access thresholds:

1. They qualify as "low-income communities", based on having: a) a poverty rate of 20 percent or greater, OR b) a median family income at or below 80 percent of the area median family income; AND

2. They qualify as "low-access communities", based on the determination that at least 500 persons and/or at least 33% of the census tract's population live more than one mile from a supermarket or large grocery store (10 miles, in the case of non-metropolitan census tracts).

Those articles are arguing semantics, though. Availability+economics+culture= bad food choices, no matter what you call it. It's about education and public food programs highlighting the issue of healthy eating hence the USDA focus on financing those projects.

Wendell Pierce, the guy from The Wire and Treme is really passionate about the subject:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/28/opinion/bare-pierce-place-making

http://www.pps.org/

All of which is to say that our take on the obesity issue at hand cannot be that sugary and high-fat food is always the only food that is available to poor people within walking distance. It simply isn't true. If we assume that the next step from the Healthy, Hunger-Free Kids Act will be to make sure all poor people live three blocks or fewer from a supermarket, we will see a problem continue.

Rather, there are habits that people of all walks of life develop for any number of reasons, on which they can be persuaded to pull back. We should focus more attention on getting the word out in struggling communities about ways to make tasty food that doesn't kill you. With this book, for instance, you don't miss real flavor &#8212; pass it on.

See, I think that's not quite the issue and he quite ignores why people develop those bad food choices.

Compare a ghetto liquor store and fast food ridden area to like, Barcelona:
http://www.pps.org/blog/food-for-thought-why-barcelonas-markets-are-super-places/

 

[McLovin]

Maybe some people associate calories with value.

 

[Joni]

if they were eating to accommodate periods where they didn't have much access to food, they wouldn't be eating more than they need.

They would be eating a lot more than they needed to create fat reserves for periods that they don't have acces food.

 

[davepoobond]

Maybe some people associate calories with value.

why would i buy a 200 calorie salad for 3 dollars when i can buy a 1000 calorie burger for 3.49?

 

[Thug Waffle]

They would be eating a lot more than they needed to create fat reserves for periods that they don't have acces food.

If they're eating the food to create fat reserves for periods that they have limited access to food, then they are not consuming more than they need. They need to eat that to survive...

 

[Kenai]

I think the bigger question is how to make unhealthy people care/go through the lifestyle change process necessary to be considered healthy. A lot of people don't seem to care much until they are really at risk of life-altering obesity related illnesses (which unfortunately are a major drain on resources to correct, so "lemme eat as terribly as I want" is pretty damn selfish unless you're a hermit). And at the same time, is it really our place to indirectly dictate to obesity-ridden folks how to eat if they are adults and doing it to themselves? If the horrible social stigma, general unhappiness/pain, and 10+ year shortened life expectancy aren't enough, what can we really say?

There's obviously not one single solution to such a widespread problem, but it would be nice to start somewhere I guess. And there's a lot we as a society are absolutely not doing to encourage healthy eating in a positive manner, as well.

 

[RotBot]

Hmm. Both these burgers are $3 but one has 400 calories and the other has 460? I'll get the 460 one because it's more food for the money.

That's how I choose what to order when presented with calorie information.

 

[jet1911]

Hmm. Both these burgers are $3 but one has 400 calories and the other has 460? I'll get the 460 one because it's more food for the money.

That's how I choose what to order when presented with calorie information.

More calories does not equal more food...

 

[CornBurrito]

This "I'm gonna eat more than I need" nonsense wouldn't fly in a hunter-gatherer society.

Neither would going to the hospital.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Lets be real: If you eating at McDonald's you're not counting calories....

Study was a waste of money.

 

[george01]

they just bulkin and looking to maximize their $$$

 

[The Technomancer]

More calories does not equal more food...

Seriously, a lot of calories are in sauce and shit

 

[AdventureRacing]

I think the bigger question is how to make unhealthy people care/go through the lifestyle change process necessary to be considered healthy. A lot of people don't seem to care much until they are really at risk of life-altering obesity related illnesses (which unfortunately are a major drain on resources to correct, so "lemme eat as terribly as I want" is pretty damn selfish unless you're a hermit). And at the same time, is it really our place to indirectly dictate to obesity-ridden folks how to eat if they are adults and doing it to themselves? If the horrible social stigma, general unhappiness/pain, and 10+ year shortened life expectancy aren't enough, what can we really say?

There's obviously not one single solution to such a widespread problem, but it would be nice to start somewhere I guess. And there's a lot we as a society are absolutely not doing to encourage healthy eating in a positive manner, as well.

It is a huge burden on the health system though and is only becoming an increasing problem. That's not to say fat people deserve to be looked down on or anything like that but it is a problem that needs to be addressed. It's not about individual choices but rather larger changes to society in general that are needed.

 

[Magic Mushroom]

2400 calories for men and 2000 for women?! Jesus christ I eat 2200 when I'm bulking and 1700 when I'm cutting, wtf. These recommendations are complete BS and that's the real problem.

Nutrition needs to be redone and overhauled in the way its taught. The "food pyramid" (even the revised one) has been shown to be completely inaccurate and counterproductive. The "2000" magic calorie number is equally as harmful. Stop the madness

Well, I'm lean and have to eat at least 2500 calories if I don't want to lose weight. As I also work out on a regular basis, it's closer to 3000.

 

[FLEABttn]

Lets be real: If you eating at McDonald's you're not counting calories....

I have done this.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I have done this.

You're an outlier. Congrats!

 

[Thug Waffle]

Neither would going to the hospital.

or the gym

 

[mckmas8808]

The idea was the provide the information so that people would have the information the needed. If some people use knowledge in a stupid way ...

Exactly!

 

[mckmas8808]

When you have a trend this large across a population this diverse I think its time some people start admitting that weight gain is not just a matter of "willpower" but that outside influences can have effects on people's behavior

Exactly! Not everyone across the country of 300 million people lose their will powers all at the same time.

 

[FallingEdge]

Lets be real: If you eating at McDonald's you're not counting calories....

Study was a waste of money.

easy way to get protein, carbs, and calories

gimme 3 plz.

 

[FLEABttn]

You're an outlier. Congrats!

Sorry, I thought we were being real.

 

[Petrie]

Exactly! Not everyone across the country of 300 million people lose their will powers all at the same time.

We didn't. My willpower remains intact. I remain awesome.

 

[PsihoPerihelion]

"Dem numbas are higher, I will take a Angus Bacon & Cheese"

lol just one of those things have like 30% more calories than I consume in an entire day.

 

[Joni]

lol just one of those things have like 30% more calories than I consume in an entire day.

In that case I would recommend getting help. Anorexia is a serious problem.

 

[PotatoeMasher]

The reason we're getting fatter is people mostly seem to have no idea what foods actually make them fat (the obsession over calories and the encouragement of low-fat diets being the biggest issues, IMHO). Providing the info is all these places can do. If someone looks at a Big Mac and thinks the patties and cheese are what's giving them diabetes and not the bun, fries and gigantic sugar drink then we're screwed.

When we've been fed bullshit dietary advice since the Nixon administration it's really not all that hard to understand why obesity is only getting worse.

 

[jimi_dini]

So Saturated Fat is the absolute worse when looking at the nutritional value?
I always thought it was sugar?

The colors are not about salt/saturated fat/sugar. It's about how much of each is in the food and how bad that is.

Too much salt is bad. Too much saturated/non-saturated fat is bad. Too much sugar is bad as well (in case of sugar it also depends on which type of sugar).

Also:

Holy crap.

 

[JimmyRustler]

It would all be just fine if people would only go to McDonalds 2-3 times a month like they used to instead of friggin 3-4 times a week.

 

[SolidusDave]

[...] there is some evidence that such recommendations may promote purchase of higher-calorie items.

Haha, that's exactly what I'm doing with those calorie sheets.

From the burgers I like at Burger King, I calculated the calorie per € ratio and usually take the burger(s) with the most calories for my money

I'm thin though, so I don't care.

 

[captmorgan]

As soon as science can make broccoli and cauliflower taste like cheese cake and M&M`s this problem will go away.

Isn`t the reason a lot of people are fat is availability? Even back in the Roman days after a bountiful harvest din`t most of the citizens just eat and drink till they puked then continued to eat and drink? Its just what people do.