People said that as a justification for 4's ports not implementing a form of dof either. I don't agree. Even IF for some reason they don't replace it with a high resolution multipass dof implementation, the effect still needs to be there, low res or not. Like the color temperature and contrast issue, it's an incredibly important element in the composition of many, many scenes in the game. I consider the overall composition and framing of each camera shot to be the game's strongest asset and it's the biggest thing that separates it's presentation from the previous games or it's follow up, Zero. You can't justify breaking down everything that made the game great, no matter how minor, because certain elements don't measure up technically. It's there for a reason.
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Resident Evil HD Remaster confirmed for PS3/PS4/360/XB1/PC
- Thread starter Mpl90
- Start date
People said that as a justification for 4's ports not implementing a form of dof either. I don't agree. Even IF for some reason they don't replace it with a high resolution multipass dof implementation, the effect still needs to be there, low res or not. Like the color temperature and contrast issue, it's an incredibly important element in the composition of many, many scenes in the game. I consider the overall composition and framing of each camera shot to be the game's strongest asset and it's the biggest thing that separates it's presentation from the previous games or it's follow up, Zero. You can't justify breaking down everything that made the game great, no matter how minor, because certain elements don't measure up technically. It's there for a reason.
ArkkAngel007
Member
You can't just change the view of a camera like that similar to The Elder Scrolls or Star Wars Battlefront.
First, the pre-rendered environments in the game aren't presented in a way to be viewed through manipulative cameras. They are designed to be viewed from certain angles to emphasize on presentation through the static camera angle.
Edit: Looks like that may be due to the collusion mesh than the actual environment design, so maybe I misunderstood.
Another aspect of the environment is that it's meant to be moved through and interacted with at these angles. Changing the viewpoint would likely change the perception of the narrowness of the hallway, regardless at whatever FOV is being used. Things would have to be overhauled to allow the player to perceive that they are moving through an appropriately sized hall. Puzzles and encounters that rely on these overhead, static angles would also have to be overhauled to various and appropriate degrees. Same could be said for item placement.
Than there's gameplay, primarily combat and inventory logistics. In the classic games, your character will at default aim at the nearest enemy at chest level. You then can control the vertical aim which is at 3 static angles (Up, level, down). Shots up and down then depend on the enemy entering the line provided by the angle of the shot, and also rely on 'chance' for the enemy to suffer a critical effect from the shot such as decapitation (handgun 30% at a head shot and shotgun is about 50% or 60% iirc).
This wouldn't work with the view provided in the new-age REs. So you have to adapt the free aiming mechanic that relies on some form of a reticule, such as the novel laser from 4 or an actual reticule in 6. Now that means you can aim and hit wherever you want, which means enemies can be shot in the head/weaknesses consistently. Even with the percentages I provided still at play on the occurrence of decapitation, enemies will still suffer them more often with less risk to the player, and thus they fall quicker.
What's bad about enemies falling quicker? It means the player is using less ammunition and other resources to prevail. Now the game is faced with an incredible surplus of supplies that makes it far easier than it already was. So now everything has to be cut down appropriately, but still ensuring that there's enough in each critical juncture to give the player at least a chance.
By the way, remember what I said about environments and encounters not playing well with different view points? This is especially true with boss fights and some of the more nimble enemies. All of these would have to also be completely built from the ground up to even be remotely playable. Yawn is an excellent example in being in a tiny, enclosed area with hardly any movement aside from hugging its tail allowed, making it difficult to pulling off the necessary shots if you actually had to physically point and aim instead of using the auto-aim to quickly get out the necessary shots.
I wouldn't mind a new REmake with that viewpoint. I've been thinking for many years how that would be handled both in orthodox and unorthodox methods. But that's what it would take: a brand new REmake. A reREmake if you will. All this is is a remaster in its barest form.
A well optimized, high quality JPEG (which is already a lossy compression) that doesn't show TOO much JPEG artifacting at 1920px wide, resized from the high quality render is ~3Mb.
I don't know how many screens there are in the game but "hell of" is probably an appropriate number. Hell of x ~3Mb for just backgrounds, + the FMV videos and the rest of the games assets will probably take a pretty hefty download chunk.
I don't know. I guess I hope not but I'm seriously not certain what to expect.
Bluemercury
Member
The price is ridiculous.
Bluemercury
Member
Really? What about the gc being the better console? Or do graphics only matter from the wii aftwards where it cant obviously compete?
You could probably easily downsample RE from a fairly high-resolution.
Nemesis_
Member
Pretty sure they announced that it was coming to PS2 and that it came with extra features and content that the Gamecube version didn't have. It definitely would've had an effect, especially for fans who liked Ada as a character.
I don't know why people are posting that image since those renders are from promotional art and whatnot and not the actual in-game shots themselves.
-MD-
Member
What?
ArkkAngel007
Member
There's more to consoles than graphics, jesus.
It's the oldest system that I still own, and I still play it for the Resident Evil and TLOZ titles I still own. But it didn't have the support, variety, or multi-media capabilities of the PS2 for it to be the greatest for consumers, and its low-storage propriety discs made it unattractive to devs and negated a bit of the 'power' capable of the system. I recognize that despite my preference to it.
As it is we really don't need to revive 12 year old console war arguments. It wasn't necessary a few pages back with the 'RE belongs with Sony' entitlement, and it isn't necessary now.
SketchTheArtist
Member
What did it look like? Can't remember....
Crimsonclaw111
Member
Those of us on Steam feel confident
And the Nintendo game did get a re-release, though it is baffling they won't port at least the PS360 versions over.
The capcom game that came out on Nintendo platforms in the past isn't getting a Nintendo re-release.
Nemesis_
Member
Yeah, I know, it is a little bit silly. I'm sure the Wii U could easily run the 720p version of the game (which is the one the PS3/360 are getting anyway) and the functionality for the GamePad would be easy to implement considering they had it all up and running for Revelations.
But at the same time I'm not going to go crazy screaming for a boycott. I do think it would've been nice if Wii U owners were thrown a bone though, this game really is one of the best survival horror games ever made so I wish as many people as possible got a chance to play it.
As you said, it seems like a no brainer considering it's origins but oh well.
InfiniteCombo
Banned
I own BioHazard on the Sega Saturn, 2 and 3 on the Dreamcast, and the retail version of CV/4 on the PS3, and the Japanese text has never gotten in the way. In all of those games, the spoken dialogue is still in English with Japanese subtitles, so you still get to enjoy the full cheesiness of the dialogue. You get a display of all necessary items (especially keys/etc), so no need to fuss much with those, either. The only place it kinda gets in the way is in the decision-making in BH3, but if you're like me and played the American version ad nauseam, you'll remember what the options are
meitantei_conan
Member
Has there been any official comment on a WiiU port of REmake? Just curious to see what Capcom has to say. Considering the origins of the game, it is unfortunate that Nintendo won't be getting the updated version.
Crimsonclaw111
Member
How About No
Member
Looks like it's suddenly coming to everything and toasters, but no Wii U. Or Vita.
I suppose at least it's still possible to play the Wii version...
tkscz
Member
Wouldn't be surprised if Capcom just says "Well the WiiU is backwards compatible with the Wii, WiiU owners can just buy the Wii re-release of the game."
It just sounds like something they'd say is all.
All I know is that regardless of graphics or platforms, Capcom has thrown an olive branch for classic RE fans to grab onto. We need to buy as many copies of the REmastered as we can, as the future gameplay of the series is at stake. True survival horror (not Revelations style) must come back to the franchise.
Heh, I remember a month ago a Gaffer told me we would never see the REmake on current gen, because of Nintendo, and I kept my faith. Boy was he/she wrong...
Heh, I remember a month ago a Gaffer told me we would never see the REmake on current gen, because of Nintendo, and I kept my faith. Boy was he/she wrong...
ROFL thread winner.
http://quackfluffy.tumblr.com/post/93944410572/promotional-renders-for-resident-evil-hd - Here's another version of the Jill promotional render.
I'm very sure the render is just the original but touched up. The shoulder patch also looks out of place, it doesn't look like it has correct curvature.
You can compare this to her ingame model:
http://38.media.tumblr.com/cbfcd327289f47f25f80620431b11c80/tumblr_n9ucbho8Q81tiz823o6_1280.png
http://38.media.tumblr.com/e94911efd5557c811f732c1a8352283c/tumblr_n9ucbho8Q81tiz823o10_1280.png
And here you can see the shoulder patch is in the exact same place. And even from a distance you can tell some of the textures are different, like her shirt.
I'm very sure the render is just the original but touched up. The shoulder patch also looks out of place, it doesn't look like it has correct curvature.
You can compare this to her ingame model:
http://38.media.tumblr.com/cbfcd327289f47f25f80620431b11c80/tumblr_n9ucbho8Q81tiz823o6_1280.png
http://38.media.tumblr.com/e94911efd5557c811f732c1a8352283c/tumblr_n9ucbho8Q81tiz823o10_1280.png
And here you can see the shoulder patch is in the exact same place. And even from a distance you can tell some of the textures are different, like her shirt.
-MD-
Member
There is no over the shoulder.
meitantei_conan
Member
It would be interesting to hear what their reasons are. They probably will say something stupid like " play the Wii version on WiiU". It would of been nice to have it on WiiU just for the item management and map on the touch screen. Anyways, I will still be getting this, either on ps4 or steam. :/
Over the shoulder? This game is not over the shoulder.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Damn it.
Her pose inspired me.
Somebody tweet Boon.
ghostlyspice
Member
Hmm.. the Zombie walking towards Jill has no shadow in the remaster. lol
Then the one in front of her has one that makes it look like it's floating.
ArkkAngel007
Member
That could be one of the reasons they didn't so that they didn't have to put features on the gamepad. 'Remote play' is supposed to be built in as well, but I'm not sure
There could also be some issues digitally. I've never heard a bad thing about getting things on to the eShop, but I generally don't buy digital on Nintendo platforms. I probably should have since I have a launch deluxe Wii U, but it will be too late to rectify that by the time I get the system to my new residence.
In the end, I think their reasoning of the Wii version being playable is what they will go with if they say anything at all. The real reason is likely not wanting to put more resources towards another low-install platform with an unfriendly demographic to the genre (ZombiU anyone?).
Might also be why they skimped on the Vita, though depending on how things go it could be a TGS announcement since technically it wouldn't be the 'remaster' and that TGS is a more Vita friendly event.
Not holding my breath.
EDIT: Why there can't simply be an 'over-the-shoulder' option.
ghostlyspice
Member
Considering they skipped the vita twice with Revelations, I doubt this will come to it. lol
ArkkAngel007
Member
They did, didn't they...
Well, 'low-install base not worth resources' it is then.
You can't kill my dreams!
This is not a TPS game.
LOL they fuckin threw a photoshop filter over it.
Fancy Clown
Member
Maybe they misunderstood the 'new control scheme' to mean over the shoulder? Either way, thank god its not.
That person is eating a large helping of crow right now.
No over the shoulder controls.
WiiU is dead and doesnt worth the afford. It is not only Capcom who dont put their game on WiiU you know.
ArkkAngel007
Member
It wouldn't be a bad thing in the hands of developers trying to keep to the spirit of REmake. It could work.
But that would be a massive undertaking and some rather impossible hurdles. For example, how do you keep Crimson Heads and how they factor in if you can freely aim? Likewise with the extremely claustrophobic passageways.
You know what, scratch that. It should keep the style that it has, as should any REmake Zero, 2, Nemesis, CV (bleh). If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I wouldn't say dead. Dreamcast is dead. Ouya (and Ouya 2) is dead. Sony Mobile is seemingly dead.
On Wii U there's a small, growing community there that will get boosts every now and then during certain first party releases. The problem though is much of that community isn't interested for some odd reason in survival horror titles, or anything outside of the Nintendo brand if ZombiU is any indication.
Downsample was the word I was searching for when I made that post, I didn't mean downscale.
I already did!
AuthenticM
Member
what
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Just incredible.
AuthenticM
Member
Downsample was the word I was searching for when I made that post, I didn't mean downscale.
I already did!
So good ! Though I wish Jill had been eye-to-eye with Subzero. As it is, she's slightly lower.
I'm crazy for symmetry.
I thought the same at first, but at the same time, Sub-Zero is 6 ft. tall while Jill is only 5 ft 5 in. So that's why I left it like that, she's a bit lower, but it still seems like she's looking at him.
One random background from the original takes 87KB (it does vary greatly though, many are smaller or larger) in its native format. If I resize it to 1280x1120 (ideal background resolution for 360/PS3 release for the new widescreen system) and save it as various formats I can get a general impression how much space it would take.
The original files at their native format and resolution take 394MB in total. Here's how it would compare at higher resolution in various formats:
2371MB - JPEG at max quality
803MB - JPEG at 90 (out of 100) quality
2320MB - DXT1 with no mipmaps at 1024x1024 resolution
1579MB - Very rough estimate of above DXT1 files compressed into container files
I'm starting to wonder, could this actually be a reason why they decided not to re-render backgrounds? I think it's likely they would go for DXT1 (DDS) files compressed into container files. This is extremely common within game development, and it's a very good compromise between quality and performance. Well, unless they're lazy and end up using the exact same texture loading code as the original, which I personally doubt.
I personally would not mind a 2GB+ download, but maybe they feel that would be too big for a 360/PS3 port of a 12 year old game.
Edit: I'm an idiot. This can't be the reason they're not re-rendering. There's no way the new backgrounds are in the original resolutions but filtered in real-time, so the game would already take this much space.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
You're not realizing that their collision objects are 3D, too. Just change the camera parameters for the collision scene to the same ones as the new 16:9 angle.
Easy.
If you wanted to get really fancy and make the game look sub-pixel-perfect you could render some keep mattes at full res/IQ for scene geometry that the player can pass behind. (or at the very least for objects the player is always behind) It's extra passes, (or one extra for the always way) but they'd render much faster because you'd just be rendering a partial scene in grayscale without lighting, texture maps or shaders.
The beautiful part is that you wouldn't need to do any hand-editing of the new background files.
Also worth noting, resizing from a lower resolution image UP to a higher resolution image will result in a smaller file size usually than resizing from a higher resolution down, because the amount of detail that is contained in the image. As a result, the file sizes would be larger than the example above.
If anyone wants to mess around with them, here's all the backgrounds I was able to extract from the REmake Gamecube disc: https://www.mediafire.com/?md3l4dh5qfwp9ak
They're all in their original native format (backgrounds are stored as normal JPEG files in container files on the disc). I haven't looked closely through them, but there looks like there's some unused/debug stuff there too. There's some rooms I wasn't able to extract anything from, I added those rooms to the archive if anyone wants to see if they figure something out.
I've been trying to extract all the backgrounds from the game, and the final count I've gotten is 1411 (this is probably not all of them, but should be very close).
With that in mind, and if they go with the DDS format I mentioned, the final total size would be 740MB. Although there's extra textures I didn't count which I suspect are for foreground masking and bloom/light effects. But with everything compressed into container files, total size might not be so bad.
Anyway, it'll be interesting to look at the files when the game is released to see what they decided to go with.
They're all in their original native format (backgrounds are stored as normal JPEG files in container files on the disc). I haven't looked closely through them, but there looks like there's some unused/debug stuff there too. There's some rooms I wasn't able to extract anything from, I added those rooms to the archive if anyone wants to see if they figure something out.
I've been trying to extract all the backgrounds from the game, and the final count I've gotten is 1411 (this is probably not all of them, but should be very close).
With that in mind, and if they go with the DDS format I mentioned, the final total size would be 740MB. Although there's extra textures I didn't count which I suspect are for foreground masking and bloom/light effects. But with everything compressed into container files, total size might not be so bad.
Anyway, it'll be interesting to look at the files when the game is released to see what they decided to go with.