• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hey Guest. Check out the NeoGAF 2.2 Update Thread for details on our new Giphy integration and other new features.

Retro AV Club Thread 2: Classic Gaming Done Right!

Status
Not open for further replies.

EmiPrime

Member
May 16, 2013
10,085
2
405
Ah if it's just the original Xbox then yeah, the Mayflash will work, you just need to find a good VGA to HDMI adapter/dongle. Is your Xbox able to output 480p? Even with an untouched transcoded picture, you'll be at the mercy of your TV's scaler. I will say that the OSSC's 480p x2 line mode helps with preserving the image a lot more on my 1440p pc ips monitor even if it's not native, 480p alone and it becomes soft and blurry. Selling that component cable to fund an OSSC/Framemeister purchase sounds like a good idea!

@Dwayne I've yet to see comparison pics of the difference, I do wonder how significant the revisions are. Hope you get a 60!

Yeah it can do 480p, modded with all bells and whistles.

The Portta arrived today. I've only had 10 minutes to test it so far today and JSRF seemed okay but the screen would sometimes flash black during Outrun 2, sometimes long enough for the TV input and resolution information to appear! Not a good start. I'll try it directly plugged into the TV later although my Receiver is in bypass mode so it shouldn't make a difference.
 

Vespa

Member
Apr 10, 2007
1,097
2
870
Yeah it can do 480p, modded with all bells and whistles.

The Portta arrived today. I've only had 10 minutes to test it so far today and JSRF seemed okay but the screen would sometimes flash black during Outrun 2, sometimes long enough for the TV input and resolution information to appear! Not a good start. I'll try it directly plugged into the TV later although my Receiver is in bypass mode so it shouldn't make a difference.

I did see some reviews on amazon mention the screen goes black occasionally, unfortunately. Will you return it?

480p on Xbox is such a nice upgrade over 480i and the Xbox's slightly blurry RGB, when I had that option open up to me I felt like playing my entire library of games again!
 

EmiPrime

Member
May 16, 2013
10,085
2
405
I did see some reviews on amazon mention the screen goes black occasionally, unfortunately. Will you return it?

480p on Xbox is such a nice upgrade over 480i and the Xbox's slightly blurry RGB, when I had that option open up to me I felt like playing my entire library of games again!

I probably will yeah. I just tested it with a darker game (Halo) and it crushes the ever living f out of blacks. The only way to get some of that detail back is by fiddling with the TV's black level but it doesn't look quite right when I do so as the image gets increasingly washed out. :( I also see noise regardless.

480p is nice on Xbox but I wish there was a proper HDMI mod for it like with the Gamecube.
 

onimushroom

Member
Feb 1, 2007
1,182
0
0
EST
I've been meaning to buy an RGB SCART cable for my PS1 and PS2 for a while now, but I'm not sure which SYNC it should have: sync on luma or CSYNC?
I have two ordinary SD CRT TV's (Sony & Panasonic) and a couple of HDTVs aswell. I don't have a Framemeister nor a PVM/BVM, but it I wouldn't rule out getting one in the future.
So far it seems that the CSYNC cable would be the "ultimate" one to get, but I have read a few comments about compatibility issues. I would like to buy the best cable, but right now I need it to work with my ordinary CRT TVs.
So I would like to know: what are the benefits of CSYNC vs luma? is there a difference in picture quality? is there a possibility CSYNC cables wont work on my ordinary CRT TVs?
Thanks in advance for any help on this matter.
 

Barrel Cannon

Member
Feb 17, 2010
3,861
3
670
Canada
This new display from LG might allow for the most over-engineered local four-player death matches ever.

https://www.theverge.com/circuitbre...0/lg-4k-monitor-42-inch-ips-freesync-43ud79-b

I'm not going to even lie, I am extremely excited by the prospect of owning this lol. It would basically allow me to hook up four 360s and have them all playing Halo 2 for a clean 16 player splitscreen with each player getting a 10.5 inch screen estate. It would be mayhem lol.

My main concerns would be regarding it's response time.

edit: Can I hook up 4 HDMI cables from 4 360's to achieve this? I don't know too much about the 2.0 standard. I'm fairly behind the times these days on tech
 

KingErich

Banned
May 16, 2014
344
0
0
Have you recieved the cable from Sweden yet? Still waiting on mine.

Grrr. Still haven't received the cable yet. Did you get yours? Tomorrow it will be 2 full weeks so I guess, it's still a little early considering they are coming from Sweden.

I was talking to some other people about the Svideo cables. Some say it is poor shielding causing the checkerboard effect. Good thing his cables are fully shielded. But I am curious as to why on the GC and SNES I don't see the checkerboard effect at all, or maybe just slightly on the SNES with the cables I got from Amazon. I mean it's bad on the N64. Annoyingly bad.
 

KC-Slater

Member
Jan 9, 2014
669
3
0
Toronto
I'm not going to even lie, I am extremely excited by the prospect of owning this lol. It would basically allow me to hook up four 360s and have them all playing Halo 2 for a clean 16 player splitscreen with each player getting a 10.5 inch screen estate. It would be mayhem lol.

My main concerns would be regarding it's response time.

edit: Can I hook up 4 HDMI cables from 4 360's to achieve this? I don't know too much about the 2.0 standard. I'm fairly behind the times these days on tech

I believe so! That's exactly what I was thinking, too!

Between that and Daytona USA -- I'm actually pretty sold on this!
 

Galdelico

Member
Apr 15, 2010
2,809
4
0
twitter.com
Been lurking this thread for a long time, really learned a lot about scalers and TV´s here, thanks guys.
Last month I managed to find an OSSC for sale locally and it would be cheaper than importing from VGP, so jumped on it even though funds were tight. Really glad I did though, this little box is awesome. I had taken a few shots of it back then but they turned out horrible, so last weekend I managed to take new pics and also try out 240p, 480i and 480p through my PS2 as it will be my most used console on it.

I hope you all forgive me for posting so many pics, it is just that gaf´s image resizing through quoting is quite handy to post side by side and enlarge as needed.

The monitor I have is a Dell 27" 2709w that features an S-PVA panel and a big range of inputs. I used a PS2 with official component cables both connected straight into the panel and into the OSSC, which would be connected into the monitor through DVI.

- OSSC settings were line x4 with light scanlines for 240p (I don´t recall the value, probably something around 20%). Line x5 looked good, specially as I can set it to 1920x1200p (monitor´s recommended resolution) but I prefer line x4 as it is closer to what I remember seeing on my old CRT.
- 480i I used line x2 (bob interlace)
- 480p I used line x2 as well, which also fixed aspect ratio on VP2 since I couldn´t get it right even on widescreen 480p LCD I had.

(...)

That´s about it, tried to get shots in different scenarios, with lots of text, etc. But VP 2 was tricky to get battle pics, the camera moves around a lot, so that´s why they look different.

Colors look a bit more vibrant in the pics for component, but looking at it directly (instead of pics), it is not such a big difference, maybe it has to do with the scanlines applied by the OSSC.

Anyway, really pleased with it, I hope you guys enjoyed the pics. I had a friend who owns a 14" BVM come over to check it out and he was really impressed how close the OSSC can get in terms of image quality to what he sees on his BVM. Added bonus is no convergence issues and ability to handle 480p. 480i is better on the BVM but through the OSSC is not so bad at all, save for the flicker, which can be distracting sometimes.

That's awesome, thanks for sharing.

Do you mind me asking if you can test one thing on your display?
I know that monitor is in its own league, but maybe that can be an indicator for VA panels in general... Would you be able to test 480i contents + OSSC's bob-deinterlace LineX2, and see whether or not flickering and fixed UI elements cause temporary image retention?

I own and IPS monitor, and I've noticed how 480i games such as Virtua Fighter 2 on the SEGA Saturn, Tobal 2 on the PS1 and Ridge Racer V on the PS2 - they all come with severely flickering UIs (lifebars and track indicators respectively) - systematically produce that effect on screen, after a few minutes of play. It only happens with the OSSC set to 480i LineX2 bob-deinterlaced (passthrough is fine), and it seems to be a limit of IPS technology (IPS New Nintendo 3DS XL consoles suffer from it as well) and not of the OSSC itself. I'm trying to understand if VA panels are safe, as well as TN ones seem to be pretty much entirely.

Thanks in advance! ^_-

Edit - This explains the whole thing better: link 1 and link 2
 

NOLA_Gaffer

Banned
Jun 15, 2015
12,301
1,414
730
Thinking of parting with my SNES, as much as it pains me to do so.

I just don't have as much nostalgia for it as I do my NES, and my S-Video cable crapped out on me months back so I can't play it anyway.

Dreamcast might be next on the chopping block unless someone comes up with a modern tv-friendly connection option.
 
Nov 20, 2015
1,206
2
0
Thinking of parting with my SNES, as much as it pains me to do so.

I just don't have as much nostalgia for it as I do my NES, and my S-Video cable crapped out on me months back so I can't play it anyway.

Dreamcast might be next on the chopping block unless someone comes up with a modern tv-friendly connection option.

If you can hold out a little longer, this HDMI box from BeharBros is on the way:

https://www.beharbros.com/akura
 

NOLA_Gaffer

Banned
Jun 15, 2015
12,301
1,414
730
If you can hold out a little longer, this HDMI box from BeharBros is on the way:

https://www.beharbros.com/akura

Hmm, hopefully it's not ridiculously expensive. I've got something like 70 Dreamcast games and I'd love to be able to play them reliably without having to resort to a composite connection.

At one point shortly after the Dreamcast's US demise I entertained the thought of going for all 250 US-released titles but I eventually though better of it...though there's still a title here or there that I'd probably pick up that I don't already own.
 

Brhoom

Banned
Sep 29, 2014
2,015
0
270
Thinking of parting with my SNES, as much as it pains me to do so.

I just don't have as much nostalgia for it as I do my NES, and my S-Video cable crapped out on me months back so I can't play it anyway.

Dreamcast might be next on the chopping block unless someone comes up with a modern tv-friendly connection option.


If it's a 1 chip revision or a mini I can take it from you.

Just wait until the end of the month to get my paycheck lol
 

EmiPrime

Member
May 16, 2013
10,085
2
405
I figured out a way to get rid of the signal dropouts with the Portta component to HDMI: let my receiver do the 4K upscaling instead of my TV. A little more lag I guess but so far not noticeable and it's not like I will be playing any rhythm action games on Xbox.
 

Danny Dudekisser

I paid good money for this Dynex!
Oct 13, 2008
21,005
8,503
1,480
Good looking out. Has he listed any possible additions for future revisions?

Actually, I take back what I said. One of the differences is that this supposedly won't support sync on green, which one needs in order for the Ps2 to display 480p over SCART. The guy said he's working on a separate device for sync on green, though it's unclear exactly what that is. Presumably not another 8 port switch like this.
 

theSlacker

Member
Mar 21, 2010
7,869
0
690
Actually, I take back what I said. One of the differences is that this supposedly won't support sync on green, which one needs in order for the Ps2 to display 480p over SCART. The guy said he's working on a separate device for sync on green, though it's unclear exactly what that is. Presumably not another 8 port switch like this.

Cool thanks. Will wait a bit since I don't need one right away and see when the none lite comes back in stock/a revision. Tired of getting into these things too early.
 

Morfeo

The Chuck Norris of Peace
Jan 21, 2013
11,853
4
565
Norway
For you that have ordered the Gscart Mini, what is different this time around compared to the original?
 

Fuzzy

I would bang a hot farmer!
Jan 11, 2005
31,107
1
1,635
For you that have ordered the Gscart Mini, what is different this time around compared to the original?
Information:
Main difference between this and gscartsw is switching circuit and removal of VGA / 3.5 audio jack in favor of the second SCART output. Observing gscartsw usage I figured out that very few users use the VGA port in H/V sync mode (canonical VGA provides separate Horizontal / Vertical sync). If you own gscartsw you probably know that VGA output has two modes: CSYNC and HVSYNC, controlled through a toggle switch (CV/HV). Usually VGA output is set to CSYNC mode and VGA2BNC cable is used. So that said I decided to replace VGA port with second SCART output. This will make the switch cheaper as less components will be used (no VGA, no audio jack, smaller footprint, less logic). Another feature is sync regeneration, this feature is supposed to fix all sync level issues which are often an effect of incorrect modding. Sync signal is detected by Altera and level is automatically set to compatible, everything else is stripped, like LM1881/EL1883 IC but much faster, you won’t see a big image shift anymore, something very visible when LM1881/EL1883 is used. Switching circuit is also different here (Altera utilized) and it is cheaper to manufacture while maintaining the same set of features. Don’t be misled by the name, think of this project as a “gscartsw next”, reiteration of gscartsw and an effort to make it cheaper yet retaining highest possible picture quality. Other than that it’s still good old gscartsw.
http://www.gretrostuff.com/store/pre-order-gscartsw_lite/
 
Oct 25, 2015
774
74
305
Grrr. Still haven't received the cable yet. Did you get yours? Tomorrow it will be 2 full weeks so I guess, it's still a little early considering they are coming from Sweden.

I was talking to some other people about the Svideo cables. Some say it is poor shielding causing the checkerboard effect. Good thing his cables are fully shielded. But I am curious as to why on the GC and SNES I don't see the checkerboard effect at all, or maybe just slightly on the SNES with the cables I got from Amazon. I mean it's bad on the N64. Annoyingly bad.

I got the cables and they seem sharper than the cheap 3rd party cables. Don't notice and checkboarding either! At least with the games I've tried.
Will be buying another set.
 

Huggers

Member
Jun 21, 2007
4,073
44
1,355
United Kingdom
Had an offer I couldn't refuse on my beautiful 20 inch BVM. I'm now in the peasant leagues of Bang and Olufsen MX7000. Albeit with a huge wedge of cash. Think I need to locate at PVM as I miss the broadcast monitor quality a lot.
 

moltonasty

Member
Apr 11, 2013
4,970
1
495
Flushing, NY
Had an offer I couldn't refuse on my beautiful 20 inch BVM. I'm now in the peasant leagues of Bang and Olufsen MX7000. Albeit with a huge wedge of cash. Think I need to locate at PVM as I miss the broadcast monitor quality a lot.

You'd have to pry my PVM20L5 from my cold dead hands, I'm never letting go of this thing. It's crazy though, I paid $650 back in 2015 which seemed like a lot, but now I see them going for over $1k sometimes...

How much did you get for the BVM?
 

KingErich

Banned
May 16, 2014
344
0
0
I got the cables and they seem sharper than the cheap 3rd party cables. Don't notice and checkboarding either! At least with the games I've tried.
Will be buying another set.

Duuuuuude! So jealous! Where bouts in US are you located? I hope mine come today. Did you have checkerboarding on any of your other cables?

Also, it looks like the dude is on vacation, as his store is down. I will be ordering at least 3 more if they solve the problem. It will be good to have extra.

Glad they worked out for you!
 

alr1ght

bish gets all the credit :)
Sep 25, 2005
55,613
6
1,440
Okay, I have the opportunity to get a Sony KV 24FV12 for $20. The only thing I'm wary about is I see there's no component input. I'm mostly going to be using it with my PS2 and Wii (emulators). Worth it? I remember hooking up all of my old system via component and looking great. I don't know if I want to sacrifice the input quality or wait on a 20" FS120 (none ever pop up, just the 27" version) with component.
 

Crynox

Neo Member
Aug 31, 2016
43
0
0
Bristol, UK
Hi guys I've recently picked up some more PVM's, a 14N6E and a 14L3. Both look great but I have the same problem with both in that compared to my 20M4E they don't seem to like my Oxbox or Dreamcast due to no sync. The cables I'm using are configured for composite video ?

Does anyone else have any experience of these monitors ? Do I need to get some new cables that use composite sync instead ?

PS they both work fine with my Wii,Saturn and PS2 which I find strange as they use composite video for sync.
 

Conezays

Member
Jun 13, 2013
3,119
0
0
Would appreciate some input on which option seems better or if anyone has experience with either monitor. There's a Sony BVM 14G1U available on Craigslist for $400 CDN. Alternatively, there's a Sony PVM 14M4U online for the same price with free shipping (both are in good condition). Not a huge fan of the idea of shipping a PVM, but free shipping and there's more recourse available if there are issues versus Craigslist. Cheers.

Edit: And bought, lol.
 

KingErich

Banned
May 16, 2014
344
0
0
Duuuuuude! So jealous! Where bouts in US are you located? I hope mine come today. Did you have checkerboarding on any of your other cables?

Also, it looks like the dude is on vacation, as his store is down. I will be ordering at least 3 more if they solve the problem. It will be good to have extra.

Glad they worked out for you!

Still. No. Cable! bah!

On another note, My Everdrive 64 from the source in Ukraine has departed NJ. So I should see that next week sometime. I don't have tracking on the cable. :( It has to arrive today.
 

KingErich

Banned
May 16, 2014
344
0
0
For anyone that cares. The svideo cable ordered from the guy in Sweden is LEGIT! They got rid of the N64 checkerboarding! They are noticeably sharper and a little brighter than the cheap Amazon ones.

Unfortunately when ran through the RCA system selector I have the checkerboard returns. When I have them directly connected to the HDMI upconverter it goes away. I tried directly connecting the other Amazon cables (Innovation Brand) and the checkerboard is still there. So there is definitely something better and different about the Swedish cables.

I'll be ordering at least another set for my GC. Once the Framemeister arrives, I'll get the necessary SCART cable for the SNES. I will be stuck using svideo for N64 and GC. Which isn't too bad with the new cable.

So, there you have it. If anyone out there is looking for a cheaper alternative to the Monster cable or official Nintendo svideo cable, the Swedish cables are awesome!

UPDATE: So I used the Pelican 5 port System selector and all is well. N64 is crisp and no checkerboard. All other consoles look great too.
 

Triforce141

Member
Apr 6, 2015
4,606
1
0
Does anyone here know a good set of PS2 component cables, I wanted to test out 480p line double on the OSSC but I want to be sure I got a good connection?
 

Danny Dudekisser

I paid good money for this Dynex!
Oct 13, 2008
21,005
8,503
1,480
The next batch of the gcompsw is also up on gretrostuff.com. The dude said he'll combine shipping if you're buying that and the gscartsw lite -- just buy them separately, and mention in the comments that you want to combine shipping.

I'm buying both. Shit's gonna be so good.


Also, I need to get some new cables that are EuroSCART instead of JP21... is there any consensus on which of these is better:

retro_console_acessories cables with the coax upgrade or

retro gaming cables with the pack a punch upgrade


God, that shit gets confusing. I'm leaning towards the latter, because they have the metallic casing that looks fucking rad.
 

Fuzzy

I would bang a hot farmer!
Jan 11, 2005
31,107
1
1,635
I don't like the design of the gcompsw at all. The connections on the top makes sense for his scart switch because of the way scart cables are designed but doing the same for component cables is just dumb imo.
 

dubc35

Member
Oct 29, 2010
4,731
0
0
Also, I need to get some new cables that are EuroSCART instead of JP21... is there any consensus on which of these is better:

retro_console_acessories cables with the coax upgrade or

retro gaming cables with the pack a punch upgrade


God, that shit gets confusing. I'm leaning towards the latter, because they have the metallic casing that looks fucking rad.

Voultar, Bob from retrorgb, and the HD Retrovision guys all recommended retro gaming cables (the U.K. one).

I got the pack a punch email last week. Do these have each cable shielded?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.