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Retro AV Club Thread 2: Classic Gaming Done Right!

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Timu

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Bummer. Should that persist after I'm back to game play, though? Does the Framemeister's performance vary based on its output resolution, out of curiosity?
It's going to be painful to deal with 240p/480i switching on that thing. Honestly I don't get why devs did this, just stick to one res, preferably 240p.
 

Vespa

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It's going to be painful to deal with 240p/480i switching on that thing. Honestly I don't get why devs did this, just stick to one res, preferably 240p.

Yeah, I don't know why they did this my guess is maybe it's nicer to have 480i on static menus so the bump in res would be worth it? Resident Evil 2 is horrible to play on an OSSC, not only does it switch res when going to the inventory but on different scenes too.
 

Vespa

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Can anyone identify this model?



Buying things on craigslist is super annoying when they don't list any info. Looks like a 20"?

Is it 24"? Looks like the KV-24fv12
 

Shin Johnpv

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Bummer. Should that persist after I'm back to game play, though? Does the Framemeister's performance vary based on its output resolution, out of curiosity?

Anything that changes resolution like that will have issues. I don't remember if its a sync thing, but basically any game that does the 240p/480i switch between gameplay and menus isn't a good idea on the Framemeister. Thankfully there aren't a lot of them.
 

polyh3dron

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Crap, I'm in LA visiting family but no way I would try to ship it. I actually looked at CL this morning for PVMs since they usually have quite a few (TV/movie industry). I only saw a few which was odd.
Yeah they've really dried up over here recently.. a couple years back you could see BVM-20F1Us going for $200-ish regularly. By the time I could afford to spring for a CRT they weren't as common and I went with a 20M4U which I got lucky and found for $30
 

Timu

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Yeah, I don't know why they did this my guess is maybe it's nicer to have 480i on static menus so the bump in res would be worth it? Resident Evil 2 is horrible to play on an OSSC, not only does it switch res when going to the inventory but on different scenes too.
It may sound cool, but it's pointless either way.

Anything that changes resolution like that will have issues. I don't remember if its a sync thing, but basically any game that does the 240p/480i switch between gameplay and menus isn't a good idea on the Framemeister. Thankfully there aren't a lot of them.
This happens on PS1, N64 and Sega Saturn games, even fighting games as well.
 

dubc35

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Yeah they've really dried up over here recently.. a couple years back you could see BVM-20F1Us going for $200-ish regularly. By the time I could afford to spring for a CRT they weren't as common and I went with a 20M4U which I got lucky and found for $30
Yeah even six months ago or so I would see dozens of results (prices had increased but dozens of listings). I think there were only 3 this morning, all 13"/14" range too.

Great deal on those two, hopefully a non-scalper gets them.

Yeah, I don't know why they did this my guess is maybe it's nicer to have 480i on static menus so the bump in res would be worth it? Resident Evil 2 is horrible to play on an OSSC, not only does it switch res when going to the inventory but on different scenes too.
For clarification, you meant Framemeister and not OSSC, correct? I have not heard of any res switching issues on OSSC.
 

PumpkinSpice

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For clarification, you meant Framemeister and not OSSC, correct? I have not heard of any res switching issues on OSSC.

OSSC has a faster switch between vertical resolutions but it's still a blank out for about a second.

My TV-direct method does it in about a quarter second but trying to do RE2 on N64 is still like an epileptic nightmare. At least Chrono Cross and Silent Hill are good.
 

polyh3dron

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For clarification, you meant Framemeister and not OSSC, correct? I have not heard of any res switching issues on OSSC.
IIRC the resolution switching between 240p and 480i still isn't instantaneous with the OSSC. I recall seeing a video of it, and remember it being slightly quicker than the Framemeister, but there still is a momentary loss of signal.
 

dubc35

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OSSC has a faster switch between vertical resolutions but it's still a blank out for about a second.

My TV-direct method does it in about a quarter second but trying to do RE2 on N64 is still like an epileptic nightmare. At least Chrono Cross and Silent Hill are good.

IIRC the resolution switching between 240p and 480i still isn't instantaneous with the OSSC. I recall seeing a video of it, and remember it being slightly quicker than the Framemeister, but there still is a momentary loss of signal.
Ah, got it. Thanks for the clarification!
 

kubev

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How long did it take from ordering it to getting it in your hands? Did you do the preorder thing?

I ordered mine from Solaris Japan on 2/8 and received it today. I recall the estimated availability being for March when I first ordered, but it changed to June at some point. I e-mailed them to inquire about my order on 4/23. They responded to my request on 4/25 and claimed that it'd be shipped within a few weeks, but they ended up shipping it later that day. DHL delivered it today (4/27).

I'm glad that you guys mentioned the OSSC in this discussion, by the way, because that was gonna be my next shot. I suppose that I'll just stick with the Framemeister for now.

I resolved the issue with the video signal cutting out every so often during game play. It turns out that the SCART adapter wasn't quite plugged into the RGB In properly. I swear, the pins on that adapter are worse than the pins on Genesis and Saturn A/V cables. What finally tipped me off to this was that the colors were tinted blue after I moved the Framemeister. Messing with that end of the SCART adapter resolved the issue, but it was really unstable. After taking it out and plugging it back in a few times, I finally managed to get the pins to all register, and it's been fine since then. The resolution changes make this thing painful to use at times, though. I can't imagine playing SotN on Saturn with the 3-4 seconds it takes for the video signal to kick back in with each menu change. I wonder if the people who seem to exaggerate the loading times in menus in this version of SotN are just using Framemeisters. XD
 

Vespa

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For anyone looking to hook up an OSSC or HDMI only console to a pc-CRT I've got a few impressions posted here for adapters including the HD Fury 3 and a bunch of cheaper options.

TL;DR recommended version:

Tendak female HDMI to male VGA/DSUB


-£13/$16.80/€15.40 (approximate prices)
-Audio out
-Would require a Female to Female gender changer to get it to connect to your pc-CRT
-No power required

This is the one I recommend as it doesn't crush black detail and should be easy to get on amazon. Comes with a warranty which is nice as these adapters can be fragile in my experience. Build quality is okay, the case is plastic and it feels fairly light, I think you'd need to be careful of dropping it.


No crush on the grey ramp test:


I think I saw someone looking to hook up their Xbox to a pc-CRT via component out? some options here if you're not looking to get an OSSC.
 

ToD_

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What is the best genesis model to get in terms of video and audio quality? I recall audio is good only on some of the model 1 (hidef?) units. Also, if I remember correctly, video can have faint vertical bars. Is this a problem on all models? Video quality is of the highest priority for me, but audio should definitely be decent.
 

KingErich

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May 16, 2014
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I ordered mine from Solaris Japan on 2/8 and received it today. I recall the estimated availability being for March when I first ordered, but it changed to June at some point. I e-mailed them to inquire about my order on 4/23. They responded to my request on 4/25 and claimed that it'd be shipped within a few weeks, but they ended up shipping it later that day. DHL delivered it today (4/27).

I'm glad that you guys mentioned the OSSC in this discussion, by the way, because that was gonna be my next shot. I suppose that I'll just stick with the Framemeister for now.

I resolved the issue with the video signal cutting out every so often during game play. It turns out that the SCART adapter wasn't quite plugged into the RGB In properly. I swear, the pins on that adapter are worse than the pins on Genesis and Saturn A/V cables. What finally tipped me off to this was that the colors were tinted blue after I moved the Framemeister. Messing with that end of the SCART adapter resolved the issue, but it was really unstable. After taking it out and plugging it back in a few times, I finally managed to get the pins to all register, and it's been fine since then. The resolution changes make this thing painful to use at times, though. I can't imagine playing SotN on Saturn with the 3-4 seconds it takes for the video signal to kick back in with each menu change. I wonder if the people who seem to exaggerate the loading times in menus in this version of SotN are just using Framemeisters. XD

Ya, I figured it would take about 2-2.5 months to get here. I guess that gives me time to start getting the cables I need. I don't have a N64 I can mod for RGB. So Svideo is the best I'll get out of it. I will pick up a SCART cable for my SNES. I *might* get a component cable for Gamecube. I really want to play on OG hardware but that's tough to shell out $250 for a damn cable. I do have a Wii and component cables but it's stupid you have to use the remote and sensor to start up GC games.

Is it worth running the GC over component through the FM? What about the PS2?
 

Laevateinn

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What is the best genesis model to get in terms of video and audio quality? I recall audio is good only on some of the model 1 (hidef?) units. Also, if I remember correctly, video can have faint vertical bars. Is this a problem on all models? Video quality is of the highest priority for me, but audio should definitely be decent.

Are you using RGB? It probably doesn't matter too much if you're using RGB since there's no encoder in that case.
 

ToD_

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Are you using RGB? It probably doesn't matter too much if you're using RGB since there's no encoder in that case.

Yes, I will exclusively use RGB. The vertical bars are an issue even when using RGB, however. You'd have to bypass the encoder using a mod such as this one. I was wondering if there are models which aren't plagued by the jailbar issue so I can avoid having to mod it, but I guess it may affect all units to some degree.
 

Peltz

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It's going to be painful to deal with 240p/480i switching on that thing. Honestly I don't get why devs did this, just stick to one res, preferably 240p.

I mean... it's not like they anticipated that you'd be trying to scale the image 2 decades later. It was totally appropriate back in the 90s to mix 240p and 480i.
 

Timu

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I mean... it's not like they anticipated that you'd be trying to scale the image 2 decades later. It was totally appropriate back in the 90s to mix 240p and 480i.
Fair enough, I get they were trying something new, but 240p is still better for those consoles(until Dreamcast)!=p
 

leonemesis

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Been lurking this thread for a long time, really learned a lot about scalers and TV´s here, thanks guys.
Last month I managed to find an OSSC for sale locally and it would be cheaper than importing from VGP, so jumped on it even though funds were tight. Really glad I did though, this little box is awesome. I had taken a few shots of it back then but they turned out horrible, so last weekend I managed to take new pics and also try out 240p, 480i and 480p through my PS2 as it will be my most used console on it.

I hope you all forgive me for posting so many pics, it is just that gaf´s image resizing through quoting is quite handy to post side by side and enlarge as needed.

The monitor I have is a Dell 27" 2709w that features an S-PVA panel and a big range of inputs. I used a PS2 with official component cables both connected straight into the panel and into the OSSC, which would be connected into the monitor through DVI.

- OSSC settings were line x4 with light scanlines for 240p (I don´t recall the value, probably something around 20%). Line x5 looked good, specially as I can set it to 1920x1200p (monitor´s recommended resolution) but I prefer line x4 as it is closer to what I remember seeing on my old CRT.
- 480i I used line x2 (bob interlace)
- 480p I used line x2 as well, which also fixed aspect ratio on VP2 since I couldn´t get it right even on widescreen 480p LCD I had.

Valkyrie Profile (240p)
Left - Component / Right - OSSC

Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria (480i) (4:3)
Left - Component / Right - OSSC

Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria (480p) (16:9)
Left - Component / Right - OSSC


That´s about it, tried to get shots in different scenarios, with lots of text, etc. But VP 2 was tricky to get battle pics, the camera moves around a lot, so that´s why they look different.

Colors look a bit more vibrant in the pics for component, but looking at it directly (instead of pics), it is not such a big difference, maybe it has to do with the scanlines applied by the OSSC.

Anyway, really pleased with it, I hope you guys enjoyed the pics. I had a friend who owns a 14" BVM come over to check it out and he was really impressed how close the OSSC can get in terms of image quality to what he sees on his BVM. Added bonus is no convergence issues and ability to handle 480p. 480i is better on the BVM but through the OSSC is not so bad at all, save for the flicker, which can be distracting sometimes.

EDIT: Pics fixed.
 

Brhoom

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Sep 29, 2014
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Welcome leonemesis. Congrats on the OSSC, and those pictures look stunning!

I need a new episode from My Life in Gaming comparing Line X4 and Line X5 to a Framemeister.
 

EmiPrime

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What are good Component to HDMI solutions other than the obvious Framemeister/OSSC? My TV has no Component inputs and my new receiver doesn't do analogue conversion. Hoping I can get something on the cheap as I don't want any upscaling.

edit: I went for the Portta convertor.
 

Pancakes R Us

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What are good Component to HDMI solutions other than the obvious Framemeister/OSSC? My TV has no Component inputs and my new receiver doesn't do analogue conversion. Hoping I can get something on the cheap as I don't want any upscaling.

edit: I went for the Portta convertor.
My LG B6 doesn't have a scart connection. I'm wondering if I can get an adaptor with a scart connection that'll hang off the back.
 

Vespa

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What are good Component to HDMI solutions other than the obvious Framemeister/OSSC? My TV has no Component inputs and my new receiver doesn't do analogue conversion. Hoping I can get something on the cheap as I don't want any upscaling.

edit: I went for the Portta convertor.

I found the Portta crushes black (some Component to HDMI transcoder reviews here), didn't matter if your screen is FullRGB or not as it puts out YCbCr and locks out the full/limited options on TVs since they're meant for RGB, well, at least on the two TVs I tried. Fudoh had a non-branded version of that Portta but didn't have the same issue. Hoping it works out for you!
 

EmiPrime

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I found the Portta crushes black (some Component to HDMI transcoder reviews here), didn't matter if your screen is FullRGB or not as it puts out YCbCr and locks out the full/limited options on TVs since they're meant for RGB, well, at least on the two TVs I tried. Fudoh had a non-branded version of that Portta but didn't have the same issue. Hoping it works out for you!

Ah crud. Is there a better option in that price range? The Neet converter looked interesting as it also had a VGA input.
 

Dwayne

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Maybe a dumb question, looking for reasons to own a Gamecube over using a Wii (or Wii U with softmod, I understand)? GB Player doesn't really interest me, more looking for AV reasons :) Thanks!

edit: I have a OSSC for scaling.
 

Vespa

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Ah crud. Is there a better option in that price range? The Neet converter looked interesting as it also had a VGA input.

That Neet is a scaler I think, so it might act weird with 720x480 from consoles like Dreamcast, Xbox, Wii (ps2?) and stretch the image and introduce scaling artifacts not to mention some lag will be introduced. Are you outputting to a flat screen TV?

What systems are you using? I ask because the Wii's Luma signal isn't great and will desync on flashes of white with the Mayflash. You might be able to get away with the Mayflash transcoder and a VGA to HDMI adapter/Analog to Digital converter with an Xbox and I think the Ps2 (need to double check the Ps2) but not the Wii. Next best would be the GARO+VGA to HDMI adapter but at that price, I'd seriously consider the OSSC since it's got a great set of scanline options and the line multiplication options are amazing. There still might be a decent cheap converter out there but I've not come across one.

@Dwayne From what I've read the Gamecube's 480p output is superior to the Wii's, Wii's signal has more noise and seems ever so slightly duller. The extra cost for either an official component cable or those HDMI mods for the Gamecube (vs Wii component) doesn't seem worth it, at least for me, where I use a pc-CRT which somehow makes it look quite decent. SixFortyFive and Timu have tested both and could better tell you the differences.
 

EmiPrime

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That Neet is a scaler I think, so it might act weird with 720x480 from consoles like Dreamcast, Xbox, Wii (ps2?) and stretch the image and introduce scaling artifacts not to mention some lag will be introduced. Are you outputting to a flat screen TV?

What systems are you using? I ask because the Wii's Luma signal isn't great and will desync on flashes of white with the Mayflash. You might be able to get away with the Mayflash transcoder and a VGA to HDMI adapter/Analog to Digital converter with an Xbox and I think the Ps2 (need to double check the Ps2) but not the Wii. Next best would be the GARO+VGA to HDMI adapter but at that price, I'd seriously consider the OSSC since it's got a great set of scanline options and the line multiplication options are amazing. There still might be a decent cheap converter out there but I've not come across one.

Yeah to a Sony 4K TV. I'm surprised at how well it scales even low res stuff, I tried the PS2 via RGB SCART out of curiosity and was pleasantly surprised given it also had to do a deinterlace job.

I will mostly be using it with the Xbox as I use the Wii U as a HDMI solution for everything Nintendo and I prefer my CRT for the PS2.

Maybe I should sell my Gamecube Component cable and put the money towards a Framemeister or OSSC if the Portta doesn't behave on my TV.

Thanks for the advice!
 

Dwayne

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@Dwayne From what I've read the Gamecube's 480p output is superior to the Wii's, Wii's signal has more noise and seems ever so slightly duller. The extra cost for either an official component cable or those HDMI mods for the Gamecube (vs Wii component) doesn't seem worth it, at least for me, where I use a pc-CRT which somehow makes it look quite decent. SixFortyFive and Timu have tested both and could better tell you the differences.

Thanks for the link! This was especially useful:
tl;dr RVL-60 (last Wii revision to support GameCube) seems to have the sharpest YPbPr output, on par with RVK-01/02 (Family Wiis)
White, Black Wiis and Mario 25th Anniversary Wiis manufactured in late 2010
Wii sounds like it's the best choice for me.
Planning to pickup my Wii in Japan next month, curious how this is going to apply. Looking around YAJ, Black and White are the most common colours, so i'll probably pickup a black system from Book Off and hope for the best.
 

Vespa

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Yeah to a Sony 4K TV. I'm surprised at how well it scales even low res stuff, I tried the PS2 via RGB SCART out of curiosity and was pleasantly surprised given it also had to do a deinterlace job.

I will mostly be using it with the Xbox as I use the Wii U as a HDMI solution for everything Nintendo and I prefer my CRT for the PS2.

Maybe I should sell my Gamecube Component cable and put the money towards a Framemeister or OSSC if the Portta doesn't behave on my TV.

Thanks for the advice!

Ah if it's just the original Xbox then yeah, the Mayflash will work, you just need to find a good VGA to HDMI adapter/dongle. Is your Xbox able to output 480p? Even with an untouched transcoded picture, you'll be at the mercy of your TV's scaler. I will say that the OSSC's 480p x2 line mode helps with preserving the image a lot more on my 1440p pc ips monitor even if it's not native, 480p alone and it becomes soft and blurry. Selling that component cable to fund an OSSC/Framemeister purchase sounds like a good idea!

@Dwayne I've yet to see comparison pics of the difference, I do wonder how significant the revisions are. Hope you get a 60!
 

PumpkinSpice

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Thanks for the link! This was especially useful:

Wii sounds like it's the best choice for me.
Planning to pickup my Wii in Japan next month, curious how this is going to apply. Looking around YAJ, Black and White are the most common colours, so i'll probably pickup a black system from Book Off and hope for the best.

I thought this might explain why I don't really notice image problems with my Wii (like even in direct comparison with GameCube component cables) but nope I've got RVL-CPU-30. At least it's good to know I've got a lower heat output unit, that's way more important long run.
 

PumpkinSpice

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So my PSP Go setup has me wondering about the PSTV. Is the scaling (for Vita games) as bad as I've heard? Aside from the stupid memory card situation, it's cheap and it'd be nice to have the option to do Vita only games (the few that I have) on a TV.
 

geniusbits

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I'm just about to buy the "Blinking Light Win" 72 pin replacement connector for an NES that is...blinking...and wanted to double check something. It says that it also removes region locking. Does this mean I can play Famicom games on my NES after I do this replacement?
 

RadarScope1

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I'm just about to buy the "Blinking Light Win" 72 pin replacement connector for an NES that is...blinking...and wanted to double check something. It says that it also removes region locking. Does this mean I can play Famicom games on my NES after I do this replacement?

No, they're talking about PAL games and Asian (non JP) games. Carts with the same form factor.
 

xlom3000

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I got two CRTs over the weekend for my Retropie.

The first is a Sony Trinitron KV-32FS100. It looks like there's pretty bad banding in the upper left.

The second is a sony BVM-8045QD. I only have the ability of connecting it via composite at the moment, but as soon as the BNC hat I found for the Raspberry Pi comes out, I'll be able to get the full glory of this BVM.

Link to a gallery of the BVM pics: http://imgur.com/gallery/T8i6v
 

dubc35

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Ahh, thanks. Is there a way to modify the plastic inserts on the NES to accommodate JP carts, as you can with N64?

You can buy an adapter or you can find old NES carts that have OEM famicom to NES adapters inside. There was some discussion here or in the NES thread recently (or just search online).

Blinking Light Win is amazing! I love mine; totally worth it. I haven't had a single issue.
 

bobble

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Jan 3, 2005
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I got two CRTs over the weekend for my Retropie.

The first is a Sony Trinitron KV-32FS100. It looks like there's pretty bad banding in the upper left.

The second is a sony BVM-8045QD. I only have the ability of connecting it via composite at the moment, but as soon as the BNC hat I found for the Raspberry Pi comes out, I'll be able to get the full glory of this BVM.

Link to a gallery of the BVM pics: http://imgur.com/gallery/T8i6v

I must be way out of the loop - is there an easy way to get 240p from a retropie set up??
 

xlom3000

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I must be way out of the loop - is there an easy way to get 240p from a retropie set up??

Depends, are you looking for 240p over composite, component, rgb or scart?

composite can be done easy. Get a 3.5mm RCA to composite cable (I recommend a Zune cable as it's in the proper video/ground/left/right configuration (or maybe it's right/left?). Then you just need to have the newest pi firmware (follow this, but make sure to backup first: https://github.com/Hexxeh/rpi-update) and add this to your config

Code:
##### Display

# SDTV over Composite
sdtv_mode=16        # NTSC
sdtv_aspect=1
disable_overscan=1


# Remove audio hiss - https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware/issues/380
disable_audio_dither=1

There's a hats to do scart and component, and coming soon, one that can do rgb with sync over green.
 

flyover

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So my PSP Go setup has me wondering about the PSTV. Is the scaling (for Vita games) as bad as I've heard? Aside from the stupid memory card situation, it's cheap and it'd be nice to have the option to do Vita only games (the few that I have) on a TV.
I thought the PSTV was fine for the few Vita games I've played on it (Danganronpa and P4G). Where it looks terrible is PSX classics.
 

socksfelloff

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So my PSP Go setup has me wondering about the PSTV. Is the scaling (for Vita games) as bad as I've heard? Aside from the stupid memory card situation, it's cheap and it'd be nice to have the option to do Vita only games (the few that I have) on a TV.

I never did record any vita games but here's FFT:WoL running on my hacked pstv. One of the more recent developments in the vita/tv scene is you can now use usb storage!

https://youtu.be/MpDHxwiMt38
 
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