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[Amir0x]

Serve in the military first fuck face. Then you can go to war all you want. Dickwad

Time for you to grow up.

 

[Tim the Wiz]

The derailment trumps the original topic. I can't wait to hear more about how the rest of us not lucky enough to serve in the USMC, including those abroad, are cowards and pussies.

 

[ItAintEasyBeinCheesy]

The derailment trumps the original topic. I can't wait to hear more about how the rest of us not lucky enough to serve in the USMC, including those abroad, are cowards and pussies.

Looks like you will be waiting a while. I could try if you like but its not from any actual experience in the field.

 

[Amir0x]

yeah you'll be waiting a REAAAAAAAAAAAAALLY long time.

 

[Scrow]

wtf @ moop's meltdown :lol

 

[Zenith]

the President should have the ability to torture as long as what is being done is clear, and the reasons why also.

and this is why people will never take you seriously.

spread democracy at gunpoint! yay for torture!

 

[Amory]

I fucking hate people like this too, that's why I bought this.

That's a great shirt. I'm gonna buy it

I'm a conservative, too, but I long ago gave up on gaf as a viable place to have a fair political debate. Liberalism is, despite what anyone may say to the contrary, the only ideology that is accepted around here.

 

[Dabookerman]

What the hell?

 

[Chinner]

so how about that free market? pretty great eh?

 

[TheHeretic]

and this is why people will never take you seriously.

spread democracy at gunpoint! yay for torture!

Plenty of people take me seriously, just not around this joint, which is the purpose of the thread. Not "yay for torture", which might as well sum up the lefts depth and scope of the issue. Extraordinary circumstances call for extraordinary measures, and no I don't think KSM met those circumstances.

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

You can use absurd articles all you like. Democratic, liberal ideas spread internationally alongside free trade ultimately preserve peace in the world. The French and the English despite eachother, yet after so many decades of conflict ultimately free trade preserves peace in a once very hostile region. That can be achieved globally with intervention.

India & Pakistan are both democracies, why are they in constant conflict?, also its hard to go to war with a country that you share a system of government with.

As for reforging the world, you would rather see the levels of inequality in America than say in Sweden?

 

[Gilby]

though the President should have the ability to enslave as long as what is being done is clear, and the reasons why also.

Maybe now you'll see why ends don't justify means. I know it's not a great comparison, but some Americans can't seem to understand human rights until you bring up slavery. Sorry to those of you who can.

 

[TheHeretic]

India & Pakistan are both democracies, why are they in constant conflict?, also its hard to go to war with a country that you share a system of government with.

As for reforging the world, you would rather see the levels of inequality in America than say in Sweden?

India and Pakistan? Because of a land dispute over Kashmir alongside Pakistan's paranoia. India is far less hostile towards Pakistan than vice versa. Pakistan itself is a failed state with enormous sectarian disputes from within, as opposed to India which is a reasonably stable country with a secular constitution.

The second question is fairly biased but yes Sweden is an excellent example of many personal freedoms, though the Government itself is a little too left for my tastes. Sweden is also a smaller country which makes issues like universal healthcare easier to solve due to smaller scope and size.

Maybe now you'll see why ends don't justify means. I know it's not a great comparison, but some Americans can't seem to understand human rights until you bring up slavery. Sorry to those of you who can.

What to slavery and extraordinary rendition (for example) have to do with each other? They are so ridiculously different. It was Clinton who amped up the "torture by proxy" philosophy, Bush went along with it to unknown levels (some say less, some say far more). Again, I don't support torture as a general practice, but I do as a last resort in the face of something catastrophic.

 

[Gilby]

What to slavery and extraordinary rendition (for example) have to do with each other? They are so ridiculously different. I

You mean aside from forcing someone to do something for you through physical and/or psychological domination? The comparison is actually more apt than I first realized.

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

India and Pakistan? Because of a land dispute over Kashmir alongside Pakistan's paranoia. India is far less hostile towards Pakistan than vice versa. Pakistan itself is a failed state with enormous sectarian disputes from within, as opposed to India which is a reasonably stable country with a secular constitution.

You are wrong on pretty much everything, India may have a secular constitution but it is by no means a secular country. As for Pakistan being a failed state, your political "heroes" in the Bush administration were supporting someone who in effect was a enemy of democracy, when you couple that with way Karzai was slapped down whenever he deviated from US policy, I fail to see what this "reforging" of the world would look like(oh wait, it would look like the last 30yrs or so, democracy is not important as long as you agree with us/make us a profit).

 

[Big One]

Really? :/ You don't have to be wrong to be right-wing.

 

[TheHeretic]

You are wrong on pretty much everything, India may have a secular constitution but it is by no means a secular country. As for Pakistan being a failed state, your political "heroes" in the Bush administration were supporting someone who in effect was a enemy of democracy, when you couple that with way Karzai was slapped down whenever he deviated from US policy, I fail to see what this "reforging" of the world would look like(oh wait, it would look like the last 30yrs or so, democracy is not important as long as you agree with us/make us a profit).

The secular INC wins over the Hindu and conservative BJP in India. Any country that has a secular set of laws like India is "secular" on a Government basis, the populations belief is less important. Nice work quoting "heroes" when I never once stated "heroes" and stated the Bush administration was mostly a failure.

As for Karzai, he rigged the Afghanistan election, which is the major problem with him.

 

[Deacan]

 

[bjork]

Wow.

 

[RiskyChris]

Liberalism is, despite what anyone may say to the contrary, the only ideology that is accepted around here.

Liberalism is kinda like the adult's table at dinner. You guys have your own cute little show down at the other end!

 

[Maleficence]

So even Right wing NeoGaffers are being as partisan as right wing politicians? Great.

There was no need to create your own thread, Poiligaf is not only for left wingers, it's for all, just because you're outnumbered doesn't mean you should go off and sulk in the corner and make your own gang. Engage in intelligent debate and argue your corner, otherwise you just end up looking like an idiot.

 

[wave dial]

So even Right wing NeoGaffers are being as partisan as right wing politicians? Great.

There was no need to create your own thread, Poiligaf is not only for left wingers, it's for all, just because you're outnumbered doesn't mean you should go off and sulk in the corner and make your own gang. Engage in intelligent debate and argue your corner, otherwise you just end up looking like an idiot.

I can't believe they can't do a search and find out that it's been done before

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

The secular INC wins over the Hindu and conservative BJP in India. Any country that has a secular set of laws like India is "secular" on a Government basis, the populations belief is less important. Nice work quoting "heroes" when I never once stated "heroes" and stated the Bush administration was mostly a failure.

As for Karzai, he rigged the Afghanistan election, which is the major problem with him.

You want the world to be reforged by policies advocated by a failed administration, but yet are surprised when GAF laughs at you /doesn't take you seriously?

I assume you are refering to the election last year, what about the 5 years before then, when any non-US supported comments were slapped down, what happened to democracy then?

Also the INC didn't win enough seats to form a government, it is the biggest party in India but required a coalition to reach a significant majority.

 

[TheHeretic]

You want the world to be reforged by policies advocated by a failed administration, but yet are surprised when GAF laughs at you /doesn't take you seriously?

The failure of the Bush administration indicates nothing other than its own incompetence.

Also the INC didn't win enough seats to form a government, it is the biggest party in India but required a coalition to reach a significant majority.

Which means what, I know nothing other than the fact that the largest part in India is secular? And the fact that they made a coalition proves what? India is a raving theocracy? Please.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I understand why these threads pop up form time to time, but that does not justify the OP's POV.

1) Poligaf thread *is* hard on conservatives for reasons of sheer numbers.
2) Poligaf thread invariably has a poster or two who goes over the line attacking a conservative and most other posters tolerate it.
3) The people who start these threads are exactly the kind of people who don't like defending their position, just asserting it. Nobody like that lasts long in PoliGAF even if they are liberal.

And yeah, this isn't for discussing conservative ideas so much as attacking liberals. Pretty lame.

I'm liberal but I was conservative when I was younger, but my vies have changed and the right has move further right in the US (where I am). I still understand a well-reasoned conservative POV, but I don't consider the OP to contain that. It's just a venting.

I wish more conservative felt free to post, and I am down on the people referenced in point #2 above, but the OP and other conservatives have to stop playing victim and whining about liberals if they want to be taken seriously. There are conservative posters in Poligaf who know this.

 

[RiskyChris]

The failure of the Bush administration indicates nothing other than its own incompetence.

Also bad right wing politics, which falls under incompetence I guess.

 

[YoungHav]

Look at the primary antagonists of the last century. How many were in fact democracies?

:lol . someone ban this guy for trolling.

 

[SundaySounds]

 

[StriKeVillain]

No one made a Costanza MOOPS vs. MOORS argument?

 

[defel]

I think John Stewart said that O'reilly was the thinnest kid at fat camp.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

The nation-building that the OP seems to really like hasn't had a great track record. When has a foreign invasion and occupation led to long-term successful government?

 

[bosskoss21]

the liberal media makes me sick. no politician ever tells the truth or does what they say they will do so it doesnt matter what side ur on. all that really matters is taxes thats y you should vote right. o ya and weed... WHATUP NADERRRR give me that green party

 

[spiderman123]

Seeing as I'm one of 3 people on here who are actually right wing, heres a laundry list of complaints about the ever popular left that exists with younger generations, especially on this forum:

- Complaining about Fox News, when MSNBC does exactly the same thing, if not worse.

- Character assassination of people like Bill O'Reilly. For example, he supports gay adoption, civil unions, and defended Obama heavily against other conservatives, stating he thought he'd run the best campaign he'd ever seen, and an honest one at that.

- Supporting big Government and then turning around with libertarian ideals on social policy. The two have always failed to exist: bigger government means more social engineering. It is a shame that conservative base has taken over so many right wing parties but that isn't the rights fault.

- Supporting Barrack Obama as the greatest man on the planet despite his heavy plays into religion, do nothing policies, doing similar things Bush did but being praised instead of scolded, enormous deficits, sleazy politics with the Healthcare bill, and plenty more.

- Demonising conservatives as the worst people in the world.

- Failing to support interventionist policy or even consider it, instead merrying the rights of dictators and other dangerous regimes.

- Glorifying idiots like Che. I doubt people wearing his T Shirts even know what the man did.

Come on man if you going to have an intelligent conversation at least stick to some facts. I'm Canadian, I like Obama but at least stick to facts

1) MSNBC and FOX news are polarized but FOX news is heavily right wing propaganda. Not to say Right Wingers have bad ideas but their continuous demonizing of many Obama policies and continuing pretentiousness questions them as a news org.

2) Agreed with Bill O Riley. He has supported Obama on some policies but I've seen him characterized gay marriage protest as constant racialism. Personally I don't believe that he actually believes what he saying on T.V only what Fox pays him for .

3) Big government is bad at a large extent but you NEED REGULATION for some areas especially financial reform, health care. Look at democratic models where there is big government France, Netherlands, Canada are doing perfectly fine.

4) Obama I seen attend Easter pray excreta but wasn't ti G W Bush Jr who had Prays and gospel quotes on Policies pertaining to the Afghan and Iraq war. Religion isn't a bad thing but applying ti policy making is extreme especially since there should be a separation of church and state. Obama has accomplished more than Bush within his 1st term........his policies despite how small/large do have ripple effect....many positive.

5) Both conservatives and dems have radicals. However recent study done by the PEW research center found a intense amount of hypocrisy on the side of the GOP reps compared to Dem reps who also done/said some hypocritical things but not as much. According to stats.

6) Haven't seen that yet in the Obama administration. If you are referring to Hugo Chavez handshake then I suggest foreign policy course. Obama has outright said Chavez was exporting terrorism etc. Iran case, if you study foreign policy ...there was NO international observers on election hence you have to accept the result and implore sanctions ( avoid war).

7) Che...i agree with you on that.

 

[3dmodeler]

The nation-building that the OP seems to really like hasn't had a great track record. When has a foreign invasion and occupation led to long-term successful government?

Japan?

 

[blame space]

:lol

 

[Barrett2]

I'm Australian, so he's not my president?

Hilarious.

I love how whenever a person self-identifies as a conservative and feels the urge to start a thread, it's never about promoting or defending their beliefs, but is little more than whining about liberals.

Conservatives have nothing left but languishing in their own victimization

 

[Choabac]

OP, how do you get acess to MSNBC in Australia? I usually have to view Fox News to get coverage of US politics.

I wish we would at least have acess to CNN domestic.

 

[spiderman123]

The nation-building that the OP seems to really like hasn't had a great track record. When has a foreign invasion and occupation led to long-term successful government?

Japan......but you obviously mean Middle eastern countries in that case many politicians are actually religious leaders. Hence though they embrace the freedom which a democracy has to offer they aren't willing to compromise. Hence reason it is failing. You got the Shiaa, Sunni and Whabi.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I was thinking more unprovoked invasion, but still, that's a decent example.

Many many more examples of failure than success though.

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

I know nothing/ other than the fact that the largest part in India is secular? And the fact that they made a coalition proves what? India is a raving theocracy? Please.

It proves you comment on things you are ill-informed about, you draw foolish conlusions due to your lack of knowledge & then you throw up strawmen to deflect from your lack of said knowledge.

Once again I'll show you what you wrote:

India and Pakistan? Because of a land dispute over Kashmir alongside Pakistan's paranoia. India is far less hostile towards Pakistan than vice versa. Pakistan itself is a failed state with enormous sectarian disputes from within, as opposed to India which is a reasonably stable country with a secular constitution.

Tell people in the Gujarat that India is a secular country.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Because I think the US is the country that will reforge the world, and I agree with Bill O'Reilly on foreign policy.

Do you not realize how many countries we fucked over due to us being interventionists? Hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women, and children slaughtered to death because the U.S. didn't like left-wing governments who wanted to nationalize their commodities, institute progressive tax systems, and form unions. So instead, we helped prop right-wing authoritarian dictators who became mass killers. This has been going on since the CIA was still called the OSS.

Seriously. You're one scary person and I fear for people like you who run for high office.


BTW, O Reilly said Obamacare will hire 16,000 new IRS agents and that the government will put out patient's medical records online for the country to view.

And the difference between MSBNC and Fox News is that MSNBC doesn't promote partisan poltiical movements, and lie about death panels and death books.

 

[TheHeretic]

It proves you comment on things you are ill-informed about, you draw foolish conlusions due to your lack of knowledge & then you throw up strawmen to deflect from your lack of said knowledge.

INC is a strawman, and the Indian Constitution? Is the US a secular country, because by the standards you are proposing it isn't. Keeping throwing out the ad hominem's, typical liberal class.

 

[RiskyChris]

Why are you responding and surprised that a neocon has really really really bad opinions about imperialist America.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Why are you responding and surprised that a neocon has really really really bad opinions about imperialist America.

Usually the lack of education and not being able to formulate a coherent and rational opinion without interjecting the words "Fox News". :lol

 

[TheHeretic]

Do you not realize how many countries we fucked over due to us being interventionists? Hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women, and children slaughtered to death because the U.S. didn't like left-wing governments who wanted to nationalize their commodities, institute progressive tax systems, and form unions. So instead, we helped prop right-wing authoritarian dictators who became mass killers. This has been going on since the CIA was still called the OSS.

Republicans were typically anti war, the Bush administration campaigned on peace until 9/11, so its not a left/right situation really (though Democrats are still right ring). Yes, the CIA has done terrible things, Iran is a classic example of this, because its short sighted and generally runs itself, destroying many documents to avoid accountability. The CIA after 9/11 should have been shut down with a new agency remade, but Bush didn't have the stones to do that, let alone fire Tenet, and neither does Obama.

 

[spiderman123]

Usually the lack of education and not being able to formulate a coherent and rational opinion without interjecting the words "Fox News". :lol

LOL..........& zing

 

[blame space]

INC is a strawman, and the Indian Constitution? Is the US a secular country, because by the standards you are proposing it isn't. Keeping throwing out the ad hominem's, typical liberal class.

 

[RiskyChris]

Republicans were typically anti war, the Bush administration campaigned on peace until 9/11, so its not a left/right situation really

What the fuck does what Bush campaigned on have to do with his expansion of interventionist policies? FFS

o 9/11 changed everything

 

[Blader]

- Glorifying idiots like Che. I doubt people wearing his T Shirts even know what the man did.

I love seeing people with things that have Che's face on them. What better way to truly kill that kind of bullshit than to turn it into a commodity?

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Republicans were typically anti war, the Bush administration campaigned on peace until 9/11, so its not a left/right situation really (though Democrats are still right ring). Yes, the CIA has done terrible things, Iran is a classic example of this, because its short sighted and generally runs itself, destroying many documents to avoid accountability. The CIA after 9/11 should have been shut down with a new agency remade, but Bush didn't have the stones to do that, let alone fire Tenet, and neither does Obama.

No he fucking DID NOT. Even before he stepped into office, Bush was figuring out ways to overthrow Saddam. :lol