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[Porcile]

Coming from someone who really liked Star Trek 2009, I thought Into Darkness was completely and utterly terrible. It has no reason to exist, other than to shoehorn in references to Wrath of Khan. Nothing which happens in that film has any consequence. Hopefully it was just a middle-story hiccup, but Orci doesn't inspire confidence.

 

[Rubbish King]

Well he's a producer mainly so this does interest me, I actually really enjoyed both the Star Trek movies, whilst they're not perfect I'm sure that the series is in good hands

 

[Herne]

Ugh. And just when I think they couldn't possibly ruin Star Trek any more than they have.

 

[The Librarian]

Pfft. I'd take seasons 1 & 2 over 6 & 7 any day. The first two seasons had the charm of the characters and show finding itself, more emphasis on strange new worlds instead of politics and more non-human looking aliens as opposed to the forehead brigade that latter seasons had, and just the awesomeness of late 80's era tv.

Also, Ron Jones>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>that elevator inspired incidental music that bogged down later trek.

Yeah, he first few seasons of TNG were fantastic and the ones I liked the most. It was a modernized and superior version of TOS, unlike the later seasons and DS9 which went off into a whole dark sci-fi tangent that wasn't really all that interesting outside some choice character episodes.

I guess if you like below-average acting, episodes that tried to pass themselves as "forward thinking" but ended up being nothing of the kind ("strange new worlds"), cheesy dialogue, and lots of Wesley, then I guess the first two seasons of TNG were great.

 

[NR1]

I don't understand Hollywood... This just makes no sense... At all. As others have said, how could a studio give a big budget tent pole film to a first timer is baffling. It's hard enough for seasoned vets to weather a massive film, so what makes them think a guy with zero experience is going to be successful?

This could easily turn into the Street Fighter: The Movie with Stephen de Souza situation.

Its funny, because everyone in the Television Cancellation thread remind people that are upset over their favorite show being cancelled (Community in my case), that these are business decisions made because this is a for-profit industry, yet they make crazy choices like this that can easily put that money at high risk. If these companies made decisions purely on "business" then Orci, Kurtzman, and Lindelof would have been cut loose long ago. Yes, they have made some of these studios money, but look at how much hate their films get after release. They are hurting the brand and as a result lowering their returns that could have been higher if the studio had released a quality product.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

Can it be any worse than the last director?

Very easily, JJ is a great director, particularly for action scenes. You know this to be true.

 

[Buddha Beam]

Whenever you read about things like this occurring, it makes me wonder how many of those horrifying Hollywood sex rumors are true and that he probably blackmailed some Paramount executives or something. How else does a person who hasn't even directed a commercial get a gig like this?!

 

[Blader]

Whenever you read about things like this occurring, it makes me wonder how many of those horrifying Hollywood sex rumors are true and that he probably blackmailed some Paramount executives or something. How else does a person who hasn't even directed a commercial get a gig like this?!

He has JJ's backing and bullied away the other candidates.

 

[JB1981]

They really couldn't get anyone better? Yeesh

 

[Sickboy007]

First time writer and first time director, both probably terrible. Such a waste of a perfectly decent cast.

 

[Brainiac 8]

Let's see before we judge.

For all of their problems I loved the first two movies. The cast is near perfect and represent the original actors superbly.

Looking forward to Trek 3.

 

[acheron_xl]

Promoting directors from within? It really is Star Trek! Can't wait to see Chris Pine directing Star Trek 5!

So what Star Trek plots are they going to rip off... I mean, pay homage to this time?

Seth Rogen is Harry Mudd.

 

[Ziltoid]

So what Star Trek plots are they going to rip off... I mean, pay homage to this time?

 

[NinjaBoiX]

So what Star Trek plots are they going to rip off... I mean, pay homage to this time?

I love having zero frame of reference for this stuff. I'm always hearing stuff like: that's not canon, how can X happen because Y happens in Z, etc. Same with comic movies and such, people getting all uppity about authenticity.

I just sit there in blissful ignorance and decide if I had fun based on the movie's own merits. I'm a maverick.

 

[Ziltoid]

I love having zero frame of reference for this stuff. I'm always hearing stuff like: that's not canon, how can X happen because Y happens in Z, etc. Same with comic movies and such people getting all uppity about authenticity.

I just sit there in blissful ignorance and decide if I had fun based on the movie's own merits. I'm a maverick.

You don't have to know much about Star Trek to know they kind of ripped of Wrath of Khan with Into Darkness. It's doesn't have anything to do with it not being canon, but when they took the liberty to reboot the whole thing they could at least try to make something new.

But I was mostly making a RedLetterMedia reference.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

I liked the last two Star Trek movies and I have never tried watching any of the past movies or tv shows. It just seems to nerdy to me. The new movies made Star Trek cool. I don't mind this choice.

 

[DECK'ARD]

He has JJ's backing and bullied away the other candidates.

Yeah, judging from Orci's meltdown on that Star Trek forum I can imagine that's what happened. He really felt entitled to the job.

Joe Cornish would have been interesting, Attack The Block was promising enough. The style and humour was a bit played out in the UK by then, but it was shot very well and he got a lot out of the cast.

Think he would have respected the nature of Star Trek more, and tried to put some of that back with it being the 50th anniversary movie. He values originality at least which Into Darkness was completely lacking in.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

You guys are crazy! The last two Treck movies blow the shit out of the last what? 6 Treck movies (minus first contact) it got people who don't like Star Trek into the theater. There is barely any sci-fi as it is. Sure it has plot holes and funny mcguffins but eh? It still was fun.

Im with you guys on this director news though. Yikes.

 

[The Librarian]

You don't have to know much about Star Trek to know they kind of ripped of Wrath of Khan with Into Darkness. It's doesn't have anything to do with it not being canon, but when they took the liberty to reboot the whole thing they could at least try to make something new.

But I was mostly making a RedLetterMedia reference.

Yes, but at least Into Darkness was fun based on its own meri--nevermind.

 

[Blader]

Yeah, judging from Orci's meltdown on that Star Trek forum I can imagine that's what happened. He really felt entitled to the job.

He had been allegedly taking meetings with other candidates going up for the job and telling them they'd basically be doing his bidding (and considering he's an EP, it's probably not an empty threat).

 

[Yamauchi]

The one thing going for Orci is he was against the Khan stuff in Into Darkness. Without shoe-horning him and his 72 crew in torpedoes into it the film would have been a bit better.

The crew members in the torpedoes was the single dumbest element in my mind, so maybe there is hope.

For the record, I enjoyed the first JJ Trek. I watched it once and thought it was a lot of fun; tried to watch it a second time and thought it was pretty boring. Star Trek Into Darkness I'd give a solid C+ -- a little better than Nemesis. It was fun on the first viewing but I have no desire to watch it again.

 

[DECK'ARD]

You guys are crazy! The last two Treck movies blow the shit out of the last what? 6 Treck movies (minus first contact) it got people who don't like Star Trek into the theater. There is barely any sci-fi as it is. Sure it has plot holes and funny mcguffins but eh? It still was fun.

Im with you guys on this director news though. Yikes.

'09 was great, I'd put Into Darkness firmly in the bad pile of Star Trek movies though, which yeah is half of them.

It's still shot a lot better than the old ones, but it's bad in the sense it was a massive wasted opportunity. Half the cast were ignored this time, and the others just went through exactly the same arcs they'd already done in the last film.

The terrorism/911/false-flag stuff could have actually worked in the context of what had been set-up by '09, but that all fell by the wayside while someone ran around pretending to be a character that didn't need to be there while everything around them blew up. It was such a mess. If Orci was determined to do his truther thing they should have just gone all out Klingon war from it, at least the plot would have had some direction then.

Instead you get just a loosely connected string of set-pieces about nothing really. Not boring but all a bit pointless, and ends in exactly the same place '09 did with the promise of the next one being the start of their adventure.

Just get on with it, you set up a whole new timeline but don't know what to do with it.

The crew members in the torpedoes was the single dumbest element in my mind, so maybe there is hope.

For the record, I enjoyed the first JJ Trek. I watched it once and thought it was a lot of fun; tried to watch it a second time and thought it was pretty boring. Star Trek Into Darkness I'd give a solid C+ -- a little better than Nemesis. It was fun on the first viewing but I have no desire to watch it again.

Yeah, I'd agree. Into Darkness is little better than Nemesis, filmed much better but just as silly.

Still, if you insert Galaxy Quest between Insurrection and Nemesis the odd/even thing still works and the next one might be good!

 

[firehawk12]

Into Darkness made Khan a worse villain than Sybok.

There, I said it.

 

[Sinatar]

Very easily, JJ is a great director, particularly for action scenes. You know this to be true.

Yea I love how he couldn't figure out how to do "proper" shakey cam, so he literally stood beside the camera and whacked it with his hand to shake it.

What a visionary.

 

[SillyEskimo]

You're right. Forget the fact that he can't write. Let's put our hopes in the fact that a man who has never directed a film before can direct this $200m tentpole.

Russo brothers say hi.

Give someone with talent the budget and it can be amazing. The hard part is finding the people with talent.

 

[Subitai]

Oh the burn! X-(

 

[NinjaBoiX]

Yea I love how he couldn't figure out how to do "proper" shakey cam, so he literally stood beside the camera and whacked it with his hand to shake it.

What a visionary.

How does he get the lights to go all stretchy though?

 

[Jarmel]

He had been allegedly taking meetings with other candidates going up for the job and telling them they'd basically be doing his bidding (and considering he's an EP, it's probably not an empty threat).

Wow.

 

[Akahige]

After Into Darkness I just don't even fucking care, that movie left a shit taste in my mouth.

 

[Akahige]

Russo brothers say hi.

Give someone with talent the budget and it can be amazing. The hard part is finding the people with talent.

The Russo bros. have directed a few movies before along with numerous episodes of tv shows, Orci on the other had has zero experience directing anything.

Edit* opps double post, I need to stop writing posts on my phone while on the toilet.

 

[Delta Assault]

I liked the last two Star Trek movies and I have never tried watching any of the past movies or tv shows. It just seems to nerdy to me. The new movies made Star Trek cool. I don't mind this choice.

 

[Sinatar]

I liked the last two Star Trek movies and I have never tried watching any of the past movies or tv shows. It just seems to nerdy to me. The new movies made Star Trek cool. I don't mind this choice.

Wrath of Khan is a great sci movie, Star Trek or no.

Go watch it.

 

[Tom_Cody]

I bet Roberto Orci was jealous of Kurtzman getting Venom so he pretty much demanded Star Trek. Which is stupid since Kurtzman has at least directed before.

People Like Us cost 16 mil and made back 12 lol

I have to say, I'm very surprised that this isn't even being directed by the one who did People Like Us (which is a turd btw).

I would rather have a commercial director do it than Orci.

 

[Tom_Cody]

I liked the last two Star Trek movies and I have never tried watching any of the past movies or tv shows. It just seems to nerdy to me. The new movies made Star Trek cool. I don't mind this choice.

Are you a real human being?

 

[DECK'ARD]

Wrath of Khan is a great sci movie, Star Trek or no.

Go watch it.

Yeah, I saw Wrath Of Khan again quite recently and it holds up well. It's still a great film.

Strong characters, good story, clear motivations, and treating the fight like a submarine battle in space was a really good idea.

 

[nomis]

Wouldn't it be funny if this Star Trek turns out to be the best of them all.

I'll be the first to jump for joy if this happens. Good luck to him. He'll need it.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

If Gene were alive today to see what's happened to his creation...

He'd cash the check and live on the convention circuit.

Roddenberry wasn't all that happy with how any of the movies turned out. ANY of them.

 

[Fancy Clown]

Into Darkness was pretty bad, and I have no sentimental attachment to Star Trek so I don't really care. It's a blockbuster, so no matter who the director is there would always be a huge chance its awful.

 

[Morts]

Hopefully they just get this movie out of the way so we can get Star Trek on TV again. A series has always been more fitting for the kinds of stories Star Trek is good at telling.

 

[Rimon-hanit]

I enjoyed both of the newer star trek movies immensely


didnt realize i was such a minority

People are just mad because giving Benedict cumberbatch hollywood roles , as the unfortunate side effect of delaying new sherlock episodes, you can't really blame them mind you.

 

[G-Fex]

I didn't like the last one too much so positive thinking -_-

 

[bodyofanamerican]

He's going to have a super super strong DP/Cinematographer assigned to him to do all the heavy lifting, isn't he?

 

[Sepp]

Star Trek won't come back. Nowadays everybody wants either action or over the top human drama. Ideas are out of fashion.

 

[Himynameischris]

Despite issues with the 2nd movie (that have been brought up here so no need) I was really excited for a 3rd movie but now not so much , I need my Sci-Fi fix!!!

 

[Bobby Roberts]

He's going to have a super super strong DP/Cinematographer assigned to him to do all the heavy lifting, isn't he?

He better.

"People wonder why first-time directors can make a brilliant picture, then suck on the second one. It's because they're a little terrified the first time. So they listen to all the experts around them." - James Caan

Star Trek won't come back. Nowadays everybody wants either action or over the top human drama. Ideas are out of fashion.

None of the Star Trek films people love to death are primarily "Idea"-focused.

The narrative about Star Trek being brainfood for smart people is kept healthy and alive by a fandom who needs it to be true otherwise they'll have to face the fact they've been devoting decades of their lives to the same dumb genre entertainment the rest of us like with half the effort.

 

[Deleted member 102362]

I wonder how they'll wreck the enterprise this time around.

I'm betting Christopher Lloyd won't be involved.

.

Is it bad that I originally read this as "All hands abandon script"?

Paramount should celebrate Star Trek's 50th anniversary by starting a new TV show.

I'd love to see a new show, as long as it's not another prequel series.

Pfft. I'd take seasons 1 & 2 over 6 & 7 any day. The first two seasons had the charm of the characters and show finding itself, more emphasis on strange new worlds instead of politics and more non-human looking aliens as opposed to the forehead brigade that latter seasons had, and just the awesomeness of late 80's era tv.

I will admit, this is the first time I have ever seen anyone be this positive about S2, or actually ascribe multiple positive descriptors to S1.

S2 has a few good episodes ("Measure of a Man" and "Q Who?" come to mind), but it was overall still transitioning from the jankiness of S1 to the improvements in S3.

S1 has "Code of Honor."

 

[MC Safety]

None of the Star Trek films people love to death are primarily "Idea"-focused.

The narrative about Star Trek being brainfood for smart people is kept healthy and alive by a fandom who needs it to be true otherwise they'll have to face the fact they've been devoting decades of their lives to the same dumb genre entertainment the rest of us like with half the effort.

You look at the Wrath of Khan and tell me there's nothing going on there. Even the lesser Star Treks like III and V are built around very simple, but profound, ideas.

Basing stories on people and ideas is not brainfood for smart people. No one is trying to sell you any of the Star Treks are the entertainment equivalent of a lecture on theoretical physics. What they will say is there's a huge difference between the dumb and explosion-laden crapfest of Into Darkness and the film it stole from.

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

After the 2009 film I was extremely hopeful that the franchise was back on track and was pretty burned by the second film (even though it was admittedly good, it felt like a retread of the first film). Upon learning this news I'm worried, but hey, maybe expecting the worst may make this film shock me in a good way. Maybe.

Spoiler

No.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

You look at the Wrath of Khan and tell me there's nothing going on there.

I never said there was NOTHING going on. Just that they're not primarily "idea"-focused. There's a lot of room to play in between those two poles.

Star Trek works best when the thematic elements pushing the story forward are, to use your words, simple. It's always been this way. A simple idea, carried to a satisfying conclusion through quality characterization. But even when acknowledging its simplicity, as you just did, there's this need to paint it as somehow smarter than most everything else, as a means to boost its quality. That's what I'm referring to with the "Brainfood for smart people" crack - it's not enough for Star Trek, when it's good, to be simply good entertainment. It has to be good for you, and it has to be ESPECIALLY good for you when compared to (insert thing other people like that is stupid and for dum-dums).

You say people don't do that. But they do. They have been for long time now. And in some cases, it's part of why people didn't want to get into Star Trek, and the series ossified to the point it needed to be rebooted to become a viable commercial property again. And yeah, you can spin that as "dumb people don't like smart things so they had to make it dumb for the stupids" - but I think part of what made it not as attractive to the unindoctrinated had to do with that attitude being intimidating, not the material itself. Because even at its "Smartest," Star Trek's intelligence level is never all that intimidating.

But nobody wants to join a club when half its members are patting themselves on the back for being the only ones smart enough to really "get it."

In fact, I believe Orci is actually one of those people.

 

[MC Safety]

I never said there was NOTHING going on. Just that they're not primarily "idea"-focused. There's a lot of room to play in between those two poles.

I'm not sure what you mean by idea focused. But old Star Trek focused on ideas and characters. New Star Trek stabs at characters, but seeing as how it missed the point of the movie it stole from, I'm unable to suggest it has a clue about developing an idea.