-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Rock stars opine on Rock Band/Guitar Hero
- Thread starter Porridge
- Start date
I can see where all the "No" answers are coming from. If you know how to play the real thing then the games will be quite lacking. Nothing beats the feeling of playing a real instrument. I understand why it would be quite fun for people who don't play actual instruments or have difficulties with music but if you put some effort and with a bit of talent, the real thing is an entirely different experience.
Rad Agast said:
Some people love music and videogames and combining them is awesome for them, I have no interest in playing real guitar, I have fun playing RB and GH, I know is not the real thing and I don't care, is a game, I have also discovered bands and enjoyed different style of music that I hadn't heard before, and even gone out and bought music from bands in these games I didnt know about before, so all these No kind of people just don't get it.
Rad Agast said:
that's really the point, though.
I like playing Tony Hawk games (yeah, I know) but I have zero interest in going out on a real skateboard. I like FPSes, but I'm actually not really a big fan of guns in real life. I play a lot of platformers, too, but I don't actually run around jumping on things.
When I sit down with RB/GH, I want a video game. I have no interest in learning how to play a real guitar, I just want to push buttons and stare at bright colors while listening to a song I like.
A lot of them seem to be worried that GH/RB sort of plays on and co-opts the drive that teens have to learn an instrument and put together a band. That instead of being inspired to go out and get a real guitar and maybe become a musician himself, the guy who looks at his favorite guitarist and says, 'Cool, I want to do that!' will just pick up GH, jam out with some friends, be satisfied with that, and never progress to forming a garage band or whatever. But even if that is true to some tiny extent (and who can say, really?), it's hugely overshadowed by the number of people who would never have done anything more than listen passively to their music before these games came along.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
Honestly, you can't learn guitar from these games... at all.
However, you CAN learn drums. These games could basically replace your first ten drum lessons from any trainer. I always wanted to learn drums when I was in bands, but I'd sit behind my drummers set and it'd be horrible. I just didnt have the coordination for the feet and the endurance for the arms. Since, I bought Rock Band - I can play pretty good on a real drumset. It taught me simple drum things that never occurred to me before. Alternating bass kicks with hat-snare, always use the kick drum at the same time you crash, how to keep a steady roll, how to play 16ths on a hat and keep a beat with snare notes, etc. etc. Probably a ton of stuff I'm forgetting
These games are a great beginners drum course.
However, you CAN learn drums. These games could basically replace your first ten drum lessons from any trainer. I always wanted to learn drums when I was in bands, but I'd sit behind my drummers set and it'd be horrible. I just didnt have the coordination for the feet and the endurance for the arms. Since, I bought Rock Band - I can play pretty good on a real drumset. It taught me simple drum things that never occurred to me before. Alternating bass kicks with hat-snare, always use the kick drum at the same time you crash, how to keep a steady roll, how to play 16ths on a hat and keep a beat with snare notes, etc. etc. Probably a ton of stuff I'm forgetting
These games are a great beginners drum course.
Crag Dweller
aka kindbudmaster
Rad Agast said:
I've been playing guitar for over 30 years, and I have a blast playing these games. I get together maybe once a month, if I'm lucky, and play with other musicians. With these games I can play with my sons and/or friends online or off, and experience a little bit of what its like to play with a real band. I'm not here to say that you can replicate the experience.,but there are times, however fleeting, when you do feel the same magic that you do when you play "real" instruments in a "real" band. On top of that, its just plain fun.
Doodis said:
What I find I don't understand is why musicians are so opposed to these types of games when in comparison to say a basketball player(or any sports player for that matter) hating on NBA 2k or live and telling people to play real basketball instead of playing a game of it. It's essentially the exact same thing as it allows people who haven't had the opportunity or skill to play, be able to have an idea of what the real experience is like and of course eventually drive people to try the real thing themselves. It really seems to stick out in the case of RB and GH and makes the musicians who are against the game look even more ridiculous to everyone else.
wolfmat
Confirmed Asshole
Well, I suck at the games and am a rather experienced musician, that's what I judge the games as.Evander said:
It's DDR with a new coat. So if you're a good dancer and try DDR to then find out you suck at it, of course you hate the game because it's basically a filthy liar. That's where I come from, at least.
What you'd apparently like is MTV with note highways. I'd puke.
It's a mix of being judged with points, the weird input method (as I said, excluding the drums), the rhythm-game-ness and other things I can't express fully.
So I hate the games for aspects that made them popular. It's an opinion.
shattyboombatty
Member
Rad Agast said:
I'm sure a lot of the artist-hate comes from them not really understanding what the game is like. I'm sure this is how a lot of the questions get brought up to them:
INTERVIEWER: "Hey, what do you think of Guitar hero?"
ARTIST: "What's that?"
INTERVIEWER: "It's a videogame where kids play your songs with a little toy instrument"
ARTIST: "Psh, that's stupid, they should go play the real thing"
...
GAF: "Artists are asshole jerks who have too much money"
Evander's reply is basically spot on.
GhaleonQ
Member
While there's (inconsistent) truth to the "crowding out" negativity, I really don't understand how you guys can object to Jack White's comments.
1. It is sad that people learn about and judge bands by how well their music conforms to Simon.
2. People will find out about things from movies, friends, and commercials, since the Internet has made music so disposable. Games are necessary to get people to expand their preferences. This is a bad thing.
Now, obviously, this becomes less relevant when dealing with people in grade school. I knew about Mussorgskii from Fantasia (and, I guess, Beastie Boys) before I finally dug through music history books. I still find White's argument irresistible, though. "Frequency of notes" is a bad way to interpret music, especially when people's designs aren't particularly ambitious.
Of course, it's a different matter whether these people would care about music with or without Rock Band. Most people have horrible taste in everything, and it's not like "good taste" is a significant contributor to their personal worth.
1. It is sad that people learn about and judge bands by how well their music conforms to Simon.
2. People will find out about things from movies, friends, and commercials, since the Internet has made music so disposable. Games are necessary to get people to expand their preferences. This is a bad thing.
Now, obviously, this becomes less relevant when dealing with people in grade school. I knew about Mussorgskii from Fantasia (and, I guess, Beastie Boys) before I finally dug through music history books. I still find White's argument irresistible, though. "Frequency of notes" is a bad way to interpret music, especially when people's designs aren't particularly ambitious.
Of course, it's a different matter whether these people would care about music with or without Rock Band. Most people have horrible taste in everything, and it's not like "good taste" is a significant contributor to their personal worth.
GhaleonQ
Member
Tellaerin said:
Spot on on that front. Musicians think that the point of the game is to pretend to be a guitar hero or rock band (which is what the marketing says). It is really just signal recognition set to aggressive rock music. People like jogging/marching/driving/slapping buttons in time to music. The music's devalued most of the time, of course, but it's primal stuff.
wolfmat
Confirmed Asshole
It can because they determine what music is included, not you. The reason for including the music is popularity. It's building a musical hivemind.Tenks said:
You could argue that kids get bored faster by rockpop that way, which would be awesome, but I don't think that's the case.
soul creator
Member
it makes more sense when you look at the games as a more fun version of air guitar, and not as a dumbed down version of a real guitar
soul creator
Member
Buttchin said:
*pulls up alongside person in car banging on a steering wheel and nodding their head listening to a song they like*
HEY WHY DON'T YOU JOIN A REAL BAND HUR HUR
wmat said:
there's a difference between "hating a game" and saying "this game isn't for me"
I mean, I have zer interest in madden (and most team sports games) I can't keep track of what is going on, and which players I'm controlling, versus which ones the computer is controlling.
I don't "hate" madden, though. I simply don't count it as a game that I, personally, want to play. If some one else wants to, they can have at it.
You're acting as though the game claims to be something other than it is not (you went so far as to call it a "liar".) It IS a video game, though. I mean, if anyone went to a dance party, and started doing DDR moves, they'd be laughed out. No one thinks that DDR is actual dancing. Likewise, as has been said, Guitar Hero isn't ACTUAL guitar, it's basically a piece fo plastic to hold while you play air guitar. Sounds good to me.
I've known med-students who were GODAWFUL at Trauma Center, you know. Should we discuss how Trauma Center is bad because it doesn't ACCURATELY reflect medicine? The Ace Attorney series has plenty of legal oversights, for that matter...
Just reading this thread, there seem to be two different sets of philosophies regarding this game. One group believes it is a substitute for actual musical performance and therefore should be shunned while the other sees it as a platform for greater exposure to bands and music that one might not normally get. I can see and respect both sides but I obviously lean towards the later. If it weren't for Guitar Hero and Rock Band, I would have been content listening to the Final Fantasy VII soundtrack for the millionth time and I would have never heard of a ton of bands I immensely enjoy nor would I have been compelled to find new music and, most importantly, try to learn to play for real.
I have gained knowledge of a ton of bands by playing RB/GH. I live in bumfuck Georgia so the only local radio stations are country or classic/80s rock. These games have exposed me to a TON of bands I would have never heard of before. The Pixies are my favorite band and I had never heard of them before Rock Band came out.
I have gained knowledge of a ton of bands by playing RB/GH. I live in bumfuck Georgia so the only local radio stations are country or classic/80s rock. These games have exposed me to a TON of bands I would have never heard of before. The Pixies are my favorite band and I had never heard of them before Rock Band came out.
Evander said:
I used to skateboard when I was younger but I never purchased a skateboarding game (I used to like that Sega skateboarding arcade game though). It's actually weird for me, I play different kinds of real sports but don't enjoy the video game versions of them (my last experience with one was PES08 and hated it). The exception are fighting games and FPSes but then again, there's a lot of fantasy in these generes any way.
I don't know, I don't mind the music games genere but I'm not that interested in it for my self. I enjoy watching others play the games though (same with sports games).
Generally speaking, if it's some thing that's hard for me to do in real life then I'll most likely enjoy it in video game form but if I can do the real thing then I can't get in to the game.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
As a (admittedly amateur) musician who regularly posts on guitar and music related boards in addition to this one, I can say that many musicians generally have a poor perception of what Guitar Hero and Rock Band are about. It's not just the famous ones; they consider it an affront to their own ability to play real guitar because they have the (incorrect) assumption that it trivializes their accomplishments on the instrument to break it down to 5 scrolling bars. They think it diminishes what playing instruments is about instead of paying mass respect to it.
I think it's a poorly reasoned and poorly thought out position, but its on that many (a majority from the ones I know) of guitarists take. The problem is that no matter how much you try to convince them that it's a game akin to how playing Madden isn't like playing real football, they are still insulted because the concept of it is too foreign. There's no reason a famous person should be "upset" that people want to experience their music in a different way, in my opinion. That's really just ignorant and being stubborn. Saying, "I don't want my music in Rock Band" in my mind is like saying "I don't want my music on iTunes." It doesn't really make any sense.
In the end, I think the problem is, you're asking people who grew up on cassettes and vinyl a question about something that can't relate to. I mean, look at Jimmy Page's concept; he literally doesn't understand the point of the game.
I think it's a poorly reasoned and poorly thought out position, but its on that many (a majority from the ones I know) of guitarists take. The problem is that no matter how much you try to convince them that it's a game akin to how playing Madden isn't like playing real football, they are still insulted because the concept of it is too foreign. There's no reason a famous person should be "upset" that people want to experience their music in a different way, in my opinion. That's really just ignorant and being stubborn. Saying, "I don't want my music in Rock Band" in my mind is like saying "I don't want my music on iTunes." It doesn't really make any sense.
In the end, I think the problem is, you're asking people who grew up on cassettes and vinyl a question about something that can't relate to. I mean, look at Jimmy Page's concept; he literally doesn't understand the point of the game.
Rad Agast said:
I've said this before, but it's fresh in my mind because I was discussing it with a buddy the other day:
The reason that I can't stand the "Skate" series is because it is trying to be real. The reason I play video games (like you also sated) is because they let me do things that I couldn't in real life. If I wanted to ACTUALLY skateboard, I'd go do that, not spend hours trying to learn how to flick an analouge stick the right way. If I want to play a video game, then I want to be able to pull off crazy stunts that would be impossible in real life, because why not?
baardhimself
Banned
Flying_Phoenix said:
name a town, name a town, name a town if you wish to opine.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
After reading some comments about people going out and learning to play real instruments.. ive thought of a question. Why is it that music games like GH can translate over into the real world (people deciding to learn instruments) but violent video games are considered to have no similar effect?
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
The simulation provided via video gaming gives the same amount of positive reinforcement through stimulation of pleasure zones in the brain. i dont think its that huge of a difference between the two to dismiss the idea outright. Anyways.. the question just popped in my head and its off-topic so ill just let it be. Sorry for the derail.Tenks said:
Tenks said:
and pressing buttons is pretty different from plucking strings.
in fact, there's actually more similarity between gun triggers and game controllers than there is between real guitars and video game ones. the biggest similarity, on the guitar end, is just the shape.
Not that I think one leads to the other in ANY field, I'm just saying, if you want to claim that one thing is more diffeent from the other, it's ACTUALLY the guitars.
JonathanEx
Member
that may also be because we scare people off from those threads.Tenks said:
I don't know why people would be scared. I can't recall any RB thread regular acting like an asshole to someone who doesn't post there normally. They are usually really nice and answer questions and give feedback. The rest of the time, it is same 10 people begging for some obscure band to come to RB, bitching about how much Guitar Hero sucks and talking about other random stuff.JonathanEx said:
Not entirely true. I've been (un)fortunate enough to do the muscian/band thing for a while, played in front of good sized crowds (mostly hundreds, with a few times in front of thousands) and Rock Band is in no way lacking for me. Oh, sure you're not going to get the same experience, but noone's expecting it to. It does deliver some of the same feelings, though (mostly through it's audio presentation) and it delivers an entertaining way to interact with the music.Rad Agast said:
I still have a few friends who are professional musicians, and every single one of them who have played RB/GH understands the use and entertainment value of the games. I'm willing to bet that every musician in the NO column has never taken 10 minutes to try the game for a few songs.
also...where's your name from...don't happen to be czech, do you?
Don't really bother what the stars are saying (Noel G is a legend, and his replies are aswell) . But in this time where the entire musicbusiness is crying over the whole pirate issues and dwindling sales. How on earth can they be negativ to a new arena which are practically giving them sales for nothing. I don't know how many downloads a normal song is getting, but read somewhere that after a couple of months that many songs had over 100.000 downloads, and the Aerosmith game made more money for them than any previous record. Instead of crying like a bunch of babies, they really should look at some of the solutions which are laying right in front of them.
There have been over 45 million paid downloads so far in Rock Band. That is at least $90 million in additional revenue. It's not a huge source of income, but it is definitely something, and don't forget about the additional exposure bands receive after being in GH/RB that can help spur CD/iTunes/merchandise/concert ticket sales.Ristlager said:
Nickelback's songs are probably easier to play on the real-tar than the fake-tar anyways. Power Chord fests aren't exactly the height of musical maturation. Sorta like how arpeggio are a nightmare in GH/RB and a ton easier to play in real life. See DragonForce's TTFATF intro as a perfect example.
BobFromPikeCreek
Member
Patton gets it.
element
Member
Lars from Metallica had a great comment on these games providing an introduction to many types of music or bands. He mentioned his son talking about Dio, not knowing who he was at all, but he knew him from Guitar Hero and liked his music.
I don't think these games will stop people from wanting to make music. If anything it will increase the amount of people who do want to make music, it just might not be the same way a lot of these other bands learned how to play. I compare it to when the casio synth became big. I mean with Apple's GarageBand and a USB keyboard, you can pretty much make your own music. Add in ProTools or Cakewalk and really you can make anything you want with the software that is out there. Throw some Autotunes on your voice if you can't sing.
this is your typical 'i walked 8 miles up hill in the snow the school, and another 10 miles up hill back home when i was a kid...' type arguments.
I don't think these games will stop people from wanting to make music. If anything it will increase the amount of people who do want to make music, it just might not be the same way a lot of these other bands learned how to play. I compare it to when the casio synth became big. I mean with Apple's GarageBand and a USB keyboard, you can pretty much make your own music. Add in ProTools or Cakewalk and really you can make anything you want with the software that is out there. Throw some Autotunes on your voice if you can't sing.
this is your typical 'i walked 8 miles up hill in the snow the school, and another 10 miles up hill back home when i was a kid...' type arguments.
Metal Gear?!
Member
Mii Freestyle Mode says hello