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[Bragr]

Yeah but the thing is as pointed out in an earlier post, Italians don't really get hate crime against them where as gays , trans generally have hate crime pushed at them and also As I pointed out earlier it is not a crime to be Italian in certain country's where it's a fading the law to be gay.

It's the bigger picture your not seeing

This sort of thinking is completely nonsensical.

No gay person automatically becomes a victim of a hate crime. Everyone is different and everyone has a different story and you have to treat people as individuals, not groups.

There are gay people who face hate, and some who don't, there are Italians who face hate, and some who don't. There are plenty of countries where if you are white or Italian or whatever your risk of getting attacked goes up, half the world hates white people. Anybody who has lived in a culturally divisive neighborhood and has been in the white minority knows that white people can face just as much hate as anybody else. And if you are talking about countries where there are rules about gays, then attack those countries specifically.

 

[InfiniteCombo]

The problem with these kinds of debates is that they succumb to broad generalizations without examples or data.

Statement: "Jokes in Grand Theft Auto V are discriminating against a particular group"
Proof: NO examples are given

Statement: "In society, [insert group here] is being targeted, discriminated against, and hurt"
Proof: Zero data whatsoever to back this up.

It's a weak debate tactic.

 

[Bragr]

That comparisson just doesn't work.

There are no politicians discussing laws in which sports teams Italians are allowed to participate. There's no discourse about which bathrooms Italians have to use or whether Italians should even be recognized as Italians. I'm not really willing to discuss these topics in detail out of respect for the no politics rule, but saying "Well I'm okay with Italian stereotype jokes so that means this particular transgender joke is okay too" is kinda like saying: "Nah, a racist joke is fine. I'm bald and I'm okay with bald jokes". You can't compare these two things.

That's not the same. Discussions about bathrooms or sports are valid and need to happen because it's hard subjects, and they are not born out of hate. Those discussions are ongoing among trans communities too.

 

[TGO]

Who cares?
There's 160 million copies with it still in.
Pointless removing it to be honest.

 

[DeadOblivion78]

This thread is going on way too long.

 

[InfiniteCombo]

In Red Dead Redemption 2 (a Rockstar game), the protagonist Arthur Morgan can walk around the gang's camp and either "greet" or "antagonize"... absolutely anyone and everyone in camp, equally. And the antagonizing is pretty hilarious, because it's just Arthur roasting everybody.

Imagine if Arthur couldn't antagonize Lenny, Tilly, or Charles (the three black members in the gang), because... reasons.

 

[OZ9000]

In Red Dead Redemption 2 (a Rockstar game), the protagonist Arthur Morgan can walk around the gang's camp and either "greet" or "antagonize"... absolutely anyone and everyone in camp, equally. And the antagonizing is pretty hilarious, because it's just Arthur roasting everybody.

Imagine if Arthur couldn't antagonize Lenny, Tilly, or Charles (the three black members in the gang), because... reasons.

I'm surprised Tarantino hasn't been cancelled.

He isn't afraid to use all kinds of colourful dialogue in his movies.

I was watching Django Unchained and it was very well made. One of my favourite movies ever if I am honest. I'd be surprised to see it produced in today's easily offended culture.

 

[Kerotan]

Define woman.

Define definitive.

 

[M1chl]

Just a digression.


The problem with Apu.


We Italians see Fat Tony or Luigi in the Simpsons - or some other caricature in any other show - and we have a laugh with that. Actually we usually love them. I guess we Italians are the last adults with a sense of humour left in the world.

I think some american comedian noted this some time ago, I remember seeing this bit on a show like Letterman or whatever and he was saying something along the lines of "thankfully we can still have a non-protected minority and we can laugh at italians". (Sorry, blurry memory)

...are you living close to French border by some chance? You sound like you suck little bit of that french like exceptionalism. With how people around here are portrayed (in GTA and other entertainment), trust me you are not alone.

 

[Gamer79]

Gta 6 : woke edition coming soon!

 

[Fuz]

You sound like you suck little bit of that french like exceptionalism.

Not sure what you mean and if you just tried to insult me.

 

[M1chl]

Not sure what you mean and if you just tried to insult me.

No not really, it was just a playful joke. Nothing serious

 

[phil_t98]

This sort of thinking is completely nonsensical.

No gay person automatically becomes a victim of a hate crime. Everyone is different and everyone has a different story and you have to treat people as individuals, not groups.

There are gay people who face hate, and some who don't, there are Italians who face hate, and some who don't. There are plenty of countries where if you are white or Italian or whatever your risk of getting attacked goes up, half the world hates white people. Anybody who has lived in a culturally divisive neighborhood and has been in the white minority knows that white people can face just as much hate as anybody else. And if you are talking about countries where there are rules about gays, then attack those countries specifically.

Your post is nonsense, name a country where you are banned as a white person as going? Not where you ain't safe but banned. Just because you are who you are you are banned that's what gay people face.

 

[Bragr]

Your post is nonsense, name a country where you are banned as a white person as going? Not where you ain't safe but banned. Just because you are who you are you are banned that's what gay people face.

I didn't say anything about banned, that's your words, trying to twist what I say to fit your own needs.

Gay people in africa and some other places face that, gay people here dont.

You can't use laws in third-world banana republics to justify anything in the west. Should i call myself oppressed because non-muslims couldn't say the word allah in certain countries? should I proclaim I am facing religious oppression because of what is happening elsewhere? should i call myself affected by corrupted politicians because they exist in droves in somalia? the amount of sick laws and problems in some countries defy explanation, and a ban on gays somewhere else are just the tip of the iceberg and doesn't relate nor compare to us. At all. Gay laws in other places affect us as much as the weather in nigeria.

Don't superimpose nonsensical international difficulties into the western sphere to suit your crackpot theories.

 

[Synless]

Who cares?
There's 160 million copies with it still in.
Pointless removing it to be honest.

You should care because it is indicative to what you will see from their future output.

 

[phil_t98]

I didn't say anything about banned, that's your words, trying to twist what I say to fit your own needs.

Gay people in africa and some other places face that, gay people here dont.

You can't use laws in third-world banana republics to justify anything in the west. Should i call myself oppressed because non-muslims couldn't say the word allah in certain countries? should I proclaim I am facing religious oppression because of what is happening elsewhere? should i call myself affected by corrupted politicians because they exist in droves in somalia? the amount of sick laws and problems in some countries defy explanation, and a ban on gays somewhere else are just the tip of the iceberg and doesn't relate nor compare to us. At all. Gay laws in other places affect us as much as the weather in nigeria.

Don't superimpose nonsensical international difficulties into the western sphere to suit your crackpot theories.

no you responded to my post about hate crimes and about certain countries banning gays and making it criminal to be gay.

how do you know gay laws don't effect me? or my family? just making judgements without knowing anything about me or my family.

so Saudi Arabia a third word country? they have laws where being gay is criminal

 

[TGO]

You should care because it is indicative to what you will see from their future output.

Oh I already call it ages ago, I know whats coming

 

[ByWatterson]

If you don't want to be here, you know where to go.

Unless you're perm'd there like everyone else.

C-C-C-Combo Breaker!

 

[Sho_Gunn]

9 page thread about an edit nobody would have noticed lol

 

[Fake]

Neo members all over the place.

 

[TheContact]

This seems like the opposite of being inclusive

 

[UnNamed]

I was insulted and called names in any foreign country i visited, sometimes they were jokes, sometimes they had some badly veiled hate for my race.

Some of the names:

Berlusconi cocksucker
Fascist
Mussolini lover
Thief (they though i was from naples)
mandolino head
Mobster (when they knew i was from sicily)

If we talk about being bullied, i was pretty fat from 9 to 17 years old and i was shamed and bullied for that, thankfully i had a gigantic 20 cm grow spurt in like 6 months and started doing BB, but i still laughed my fat ass off to any fat joke in tv or videogame.

So as a final insult, can I call you juventino?

 

[Bragr]

no you responded to my post about hate crimes and about certain countries banning gays and making it criminal to be gay.

how do you know gay laws don't effect me? or my family? just making judgements without knowing anything about me or my family.

so Saudi Arabia a third word country? they have laws where being gay is criminal

You can't use corrupt religious fanatical countries like saudia as examples, because anti-gay is the least of their problems. You know, I can go to north korea and argue about how the government restricts my internet access. But that's only a tiny part of the problem, the real problem is the corrupt leaders and the degrading moral infrastructure, and the lack of institutions.

You can travel to countless countries that degrade your rights, but you cant use that to make some sort of argument on how Italians don't face the same as gay people, and that it's okay to ban selected speech because of it.

It sounds like your problem revolves around islam more than anything, as that is the main source of the gay bans that you are talking about.

 

[arvfab]

So as a final insult, can I call you juventino?

He already was called thief....

 

[phil_t98]

You can't use corrupt religious fanatical countries like saudia as examples, because anti-gay is the least of their problems. You know, I can go to north korea and argue about how the government restricts my internet access. But that's only a tiny part of the problem, the real problem is the corrupt leaders and the degrading moral infrastructure, and the lack of institutions.

You can travel to countless countries that degrade your rights, but you cant use that to make some sort of argument on how Italians don't face the same as gay people, and that it's okay to ban selected speech because of it.

It sounds like your problem revolves around islam more than anything, as that is the main source of the gay bans that you are talking about.

Wow, you take that as anti Islam because I mention one country.

Here's a list of how many countries are anti gay.

Give me a list of anti Italian countries in numbers.

Which is why we shouldn't trivialise it in games.

• 71
  
  jurisdictions criminalise private, consensual, same-sex sexual activity. The majority of these jurisdictions explicitly criminalise sex between men via 'sodomy', 'buggery' and 'unnatural offences' laws. Almost half of them are Commonwealth jurisdictions.
  .
  
  
• 43
  
  jurisdictions criminalise private, consensual sexual activity between women using laws against 'lesbianism', 'sexual relations with a person of the same sex' and 'gross indecency'. Even in jurisdictions that do not explicitly criminalise women, lesbians and bisexual women have been subjected to arrest or threat of arrest.
  
  
• 11
  
  jurisdictions in which the death penalty is imposed or at least a possibility for private, consensual same-sex sexual activity. At least 6 of these implement the death penalty – Iran, Northern Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Somalia and Yemen – and the death penalty is a legal possibility in Afghanistan, Brunei, Mauritania, Pakistan, Qatar and UAE.
  
  
• 15
  
  jurisdictions criminalise the gender identity and/or expression of transgender people, using so-called 'cross-dressing', 'impersonation' and 'disguise' laws. In many more countries transgender people are targeted by a range of laws that criminalise same-sex activity and vagrancy, hooliganism and public order offences.

 

[Bragr]

Wow, you take that as anti Islam because I mention one country.

Here's a list of how many countries are anti gay.

Give me a list of anti Italian countries in numbers.

Which is why we shouldn't trivialise it in games.

• 71
  
  jurisdictions criminalise private, consensual, same-sex sexual activity. The majority of these jurisdictions explicitly criminalise sex between men via 'sodomy', 'buggery' and 'unnatural offences' laws. Almost half of them are Commonwealth jurisdictions.
  .
  
  
• 43
  
  jurisdictions criminalise private, consensual sexual activity between women using laws against 'lesbianism', 'sexual relations with a person of the same sex' and 'gross indecency'. Even in jurisdictions that do not explicitly criminalise women, lesbians and bisexual women have been subjected to arrest or threat of arrest.
  
  
• 11
  
  jurisdictions in which the death penalty is imposed or at least a possibility for private, consensual same-sex sexual activity. At least 6 of these implement the death penalty – Iran, Northern Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Somalia and Yemen – and the death penalty is a legal possibility in Afghanistan, Brunei, Mauritania, Pakistan, Qatar and UAE.
  
  
• 15
  
  jurisdictions criminalise the gender identity and/or expression of transgender people, using so-called 'cross-dressing', 'impersonation' and 'disguise' laws. In many more countries transgender people are targeted by a range of laws that criminalise same-sex activity and vagrancy, hooliganism and public order offences.

For fucks sake man, when did I say you were anti-islam? you don't have to be anti-islam to say anything against it.

Your brain convolutes anything into anti-this and that. You SHOULD be against the anti-gay practices of some muslim countries. islam is the single biggest source of anti-gay laws and prosecution by a million miles and gay purges have happened several times in islamistic countries, and anyone who stands against anti-gay movements and not mention islam in their first breath, is simply scared of doing so and completely hypocritical.

Countries that abuse human rights and have inhumane laws are also technically against italians, under your logic. But that has just as little to do with italians in the us as gays in the us has to do with irans gay laws.

And this "trivialize" it thing. If we should ban trivializing trans, should we also ban trivializing homelessness? immigrants? mental disabilities? do you think that is a good idea or not? please answer this.

 

[PhillMeCream]

Rip grand theft auto series

 

[Kuranghi]

GTA 6 can still be offensive without targeting groups or individuals simple as that

That doesn't leave a lot of scope lol, what are they going to satirize? Donkeys? Chairs?! Cheese!?!!

 

[alabtrosMyster]

GTA6 All women protagonist confirmed

The best women are Trans-whatever!!! They win women of the year awards, sports tournaments, beauty pageants, etc!!

 

[Frank Horrigan]

The violence isn't discriminatory or directed at any particular group though. As another user said some of the stuff here isn't even presented as jokes, its just... discriminatory statements against a particular group.

The violence is discriminatory if I only beat up black guys or hookers. Just like it would be discriminatory if the jokes only targeted a particular group, which they don't.

Nor is it.... actually harmful, its not really violence nor is it intended to harm.

The words and dialogue between two fictional characters aren't intended to harm, they're intended as a form of entertainment and as jokes. What difference is there between fake violence and words on a screen? Neither are real or are intended to cause harm in the real world.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree

 

[FunkMiller]

For fucks sake man, when did I say you were anti-islam? you don't have to be anti-islam to say anything against it.

Just to point out there's nothing wrong with being against Islam.

The same way there's nothing wrong with being against Christianity, Buddhism or Judaism.

But, like I said in my previous post, there has to be consistency. You have to object to all or nothing.

Basically on topics like this, I tend to ignore everyone who screams about being more tolerant of one group of people, while remaining quiet about tolerance towards others… because of the gross hypocrisy inherent in that position:

"It's evil to feature negative stereotypes of trans people!"

"What about negative stereotypes of women?"

"Oh no, that's fine."

 

[Faust]

This thread has run its course.