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[phil_t98]

Quit the high morale stance dude, it doesn't cut with me.

Trans, gay and lesbians are not in need of your help in a gaming forum.

You spoke about being italian? Have you ever faced hate crimes because of being italian?

Just good for thought

 

[GymWolf]

You spoke about being italian? Have you ever faced hate crimes because of being italian?

Just good for thought

I was insulted and called names in any foreign country i visited, sometimes they were jokes, sometimes they had some badly veiled hate for my race.

Some of the names:

Berlusconi cocksucker
Fascist
Mussolini lover
Thief (they though i was from naples)
mandolino head
Mobster (when they knew i was from sicily)

If we talk about being bullied, i was pretty fat from 9 to 17 years old and i was shamed and bullied for that, thankfully i had a gigantic 20 cm grow spurt in like 6 months and started doing BB, but i still laughed my fat ass off to any fat joke in tv or videogame.

 

[Frank Horrigan]

If you have a problem with them doing this I seriously question your mental state. It literally doesn't affect enjoyment of the game at all for non trans people and makes it more palatable for trans people. Theres no issue to he had.

The issue is hypocrisy.

R* are essentially saying "These words have offended people so they're being removed from this murder simulator." Are mean words between fictional characters worse than the glorification of violence, criminals and drugs? It's a wierd stance to take.

 

[phil_t98]

I was insulted and called names in any foreign country i visited, sometimes they were jokes, sometimes they had some badly veiled hate for my race.

Some of the names:

Berlusconi cocksucker
Fascist
Mussolini lover
Thief (they though i was from naples)
mandolino head
Mobster (when they knew i was from sicily)

If we talk about being bullied, i was pretty fat from 9 to 17 years old and i was shamed and bullied for that, thankfully i had a gigantic 20 cm grow spurt in like 6 months and started doing BB, but i still laughed my fat ass off to any fat joke in tv or videogame.

Not nice at all, I have gay friends who face those types of insults daily. It isn't nice at all. Also is there a country you can visit where you face punishment for being Italian because there is country's were you can face punishment for being gay ?

Also
Because you laughed it off doesn't mean others can or do that. Everybody reacts differently


Edit: big up to you for getting through stuff like that but nobody should be put through things like that

 

[Rykan]

No i'm italian and i have no problem with italian stereotypes and jokes.

Gay, trans and lesbian are not a species in danger and they don't deserve any special treatment in comedy or in videogames.

Being Italian and being LGBTQ and the rest of the alphabet is not even remotely compareable and it makes sense that games treat it differently.

 

[GymWolf]

Not nice at all, I have gay friends who face those types of insults daily. It isn't nice at all

Also
Because you laughed it off doesn't mean others can or do that. Everybody reacts differently


Edit: big up to you for getting through stuff like that but nobody should be put through things like that

Not nice at all, I have gay friends who face those types of insults daily. It isn't nice at all. Also is there a country you can visit where you face punishment for being Italian because there is country's were you can face punishment for being gay ?

Also
Because you laughed it off doesn't mean others can or do that. Everybody reacts differently


Edit: big up to you for getting through stuff like that but nobody should be put through things like that

Developing a thick skin is not only useful against jokes but for life in general.

It is not healthy to be triggered by some stupid joke in a videogame, that path never ends well.

 

[phil_t98]

Developing a thick skin is not only useful against jokes but for life in general.

It is not healthy to be triggered by some stupid joke in a videogame, that path never ends well.

Not everybody can develop a thick skin, that's the problem with thinking everybody is like yourself or myself.

I have had a family member who committed suicide because they were fragile and couldn't handle things.not everybody has the ability to handle everything. Just remember that

 

[GymWolf]

Edit: meh it's not worthy.

 

[GymWolf]

Not everybody can develop a thick skin, that's the problem with thinking everybody is like yourself or myself.

I have had a family member who committed suicide because they were fragile and couldn't handle things.not everybody has the ability to handle everything. Just remember that

I can understand being mad if someone insult you with anger and hate in front of your face, or being bullied.

But being offended by some stupid shit in a videogame is a symptom of something broken more deeply, and no amount of censorship is gonna help these people.

I'm sorry for your loss.

P.s. i wasn't born with a thick skin, i had build one by myself, you can't allow to let everyone getting under your skin.

I think it is better if we move on from this argument, i don't wanna pass for an insensible bastard with someone who had a loss close to him.

 

[Boss Mog]

I'm not even sure how this would even be censorship, Rockstar themselves are removing this, no one made a law saying it can't be said or something.

Not every move made that you disagree with is "censorship"

If you want to debate this, come at me with a better argument than: "self-censorship to stay out of trouble with the powers that be isn't censorship because it's not being imposed by law".

 

[phil_t98]

I can understand being mad if someone insult you with anger and hate in front of your face, or being bullied.

But being offended by some stupid shit in a videogame is a symptom of something broken more deeply, and no amount of censorship is gonna help these people.

I'm sorry for your loss.

P.s. i wasn't born with a thick skin, i had build one by myself, you can't allow to let everyone getting under your skin.

I think it is better if we move on from this argument, i don't wanna pass for an insensible bastard with someone who had a loss close to him.

Honestly don't think your insensitive.

 

[Rykan]

If you want to debate this, come at me with a better argument than: "self-censorship to stay out of trouble with the powers that be isn't censorship because it's not being imposed by law".

But this has been in the game for like 7 years. At no point was there any outrage or controversy over this. There is nothing suggesting that this was anything else than Rockstar changing their mind and finding the joke in bad taste.

 

[Fuz]

Just a digression.

You spoke about being italian? Have you ever faced hate crimes because of being italian?

Just good for thought

The problem with Apu.


We Italians see Fat Tony or Luigi in the Simpsons - or some other caricature in any other show - and we have a laugh with that. Actually we usually love them. I guess we Italians are the last adults with a sense of humour left in the world.

I think some american comedian noted this some time ago, I remember seeing this bit on a show like Letterman or whatever and he was saying something along the lines of "thankfully we can still have a non-protected minority and we can laugh at italians". (Sorry, blurry memory)

 

[Rykan]

Just a digression.


The problem with Apu.


We Italians see Fat Tony or Luigi in the Simpsons - or some other caricature in any other show - and we have a laugh with that. Actually we usually love them. I guess we Italians are the last adults with a sense of humour left in the world.

I think some american comedian noted this some time ago, I remember seeing this bit on a show like Letterman or whatever and he was saying something along the lines of "thankfully we can still have a non-protected minority and we can laugh of italians". (Sorry, blurry memory)

That comparisson just doesn't work.

There are no politicians discussing laws in which sports teams Italians are allowed to participate. There's no discourse about which bathrooms Italians have to use or whether Italians should even be recognized as Italians. I'm not really willing to discuss these topics in detail out of respect for the no politics rule, but saying "Well I'm okay with Italian stereotype jokes so that means this particular transgender joke is okay too" is kinda like saying: "Nah, a racist joke is fine. I'm bald and I'm okay with bald jokes". You can't compare these two things.

 

[phil_t98]

Just a digression.


The problem with Apu.


We Italians see Fat Tony or Luigi in the Simpsons - or some other caricature in any other show - and we have a laugh with that. Actually we usually love them. I guess we Italians are the last adults with a sense of humour left in the world.

I think some american comedian noted this some time ago, I remember seeing this bit on a show like Letterman or whatever and he was saying something along the lines of "thankfully we can still have a non-protected minority and we can laugh of italians". (Sorry, blurry memory)

Yeah but the thing is as pointed out in an earlier post, Italians don't really get hate crime against them where as gays , trans generally have hate crime pushed at them and also As I pointed out earlier it is not a crime to be Italian in certain country's where it's a fading the law to be gay.

It's the bigger picture your not seeing

 

[Fuz]

Yeah but the thing is as pointed out in an earlier post, Italians don't really get hate crime against them where as gays , trans generally have hate crime pushed at them and also As I pointed out earlier it is not a crime to be Italian in certain country's where it's a fading the law to be gay.

It's the bigger picture your not seeing

Oh absolutely. I'm aware of how the situation is in those countries, and I'm a strong advocate of speaking up with the goal of repelling their homophobic/transphobic laws.
I just think we should laugh at everything. Nothing is sacred. Satyre doesn't have any limits, otherwise is not satyre anymore.
The concept of "punching up" is dystopic to me.
Anyway, as I said, that was just a digression spurred by your mention of italians.

 

[phil_t98]

Oh absolutely. I'm aware of how the situation is in those countries, and I'm a strong advocate of repelling homophobic/transphobic laws.
I just think we should laugh at everything. Nothing is sacred.
The concept of "punching up" is dystopic to me.
Anyway, as I said, that was just a digression spurred by your mention of italians.

Yeah I get what you mean but the bigger picture of taking something out of the game like this , does it effect you? Prob not? Does it effect gameplay no?

I don't get why so many here are so outraged at it.

 

[GymWolf]

Honestly don't think your insensitive.

Yeah but sometimes i have an abrasive way to say things that can be misinterpreted.

 

[Fuz]

Yeah I get what you mean but the bigger picture of taking something out of the game like this , does it effect you? Prob not? Does it effect gameplay no?

I don't get why so many here are so outraged at it.

Because it's censorship. And no measure of censorship should EVER be allowed, because eventually it will pile up. It's a very dangerous slippery slope.

Remember jack thompson? And what we all thought about him at the time? He's pretty much won at this point.

 

[Boss Mog]

But this has been in the game for like 7 years. At no point was there any outrage or controversy over this. There is nothing suggesting that this was anything else than Rockstar changing their mind and finding the joke in bad taste.

For R* to "change their mind" they would have to be the R* of 10-15 years ago that were developing the game. I suppose it's possible that a newer generation of employees found it offensive and complained/asked to have it removed though. Weird that they would remove that but not the Post op trucks which are far more visible. It seems like they are more keen on removing depictions of trans people rather than clever word play.

 

[Rykan]

Because it's censorship. And no measure of censorship should EVER be allowed, because eventually it will pile up. It's a very dangerous slippery slope.

Remember jack thompson? And what we all thought about him at the time? He's pretty much won at this point.

That's a bit overblown.

Games have been censored for years without it leading down a slipperly slope. Final Fantasy had minor censorship applied in later releases. Zelda has had censorship. It's also worth mentioning that Rockstar didn't go back and edit the old versions. It's just this new rerelease.

How has Jack Thompson won? Jack Thompson campaigned specifically against video game violence. That's the one area of video games that has actually got significantly increased since he was active lol

 

[Fuz]

For R* to "change their mind" they would have to be the R* of 10-15 years ago that were developing the game. I suppose it's possible that a newer generation of employees found it offensive and complained/asked to have it removed though. Weird that they would remove that but not the Post op trucks which are far more visible. It seems like they are more keen on removing depictions of trans people rather than clever word play.

So what you're saying is... they're canceling trans people.

Games have been censored for years without it leading down a slipperly slope.

Oh yeah, gaming is so healthy now.

 

[Giallo Corsa]

I was insulted and called names in any foreign country i visited, sometimes they were jokes, sometimes they had some badly veiled hate for my race.

Some of the names:

Berlusconi cocksucker
Fascist
Mussolini lover
Thief (they though i was from naples)
mandolino head
Mobster (when they knew i was from sicily)

If we talk about being bullied, i was pretty fat from 9 to 17 years old and i was shamed and bullied for that, thankfully i had a gigantic 20 cm grow spurt in like 6 months and started doing BB, but i still laughed my fat ass off to any fat joke in tv or videogame.

Puttana Eva...Vieni qua che ti offro 'na abbraccio uaglio...oppure un aperitivo cazzo
PS : La terra dei cachi

 

[Rykan]

Oh yeah, gaming is so healthy now.

Compared to what era in gaming before?

 

[GymWolf]

Puttana Eva...Vieni qua che ti offro 'na abbraccio uaglio...oppure un aperitivo cazzo
PS : La terra dei cachi

Quando mi chiamano con quei nomignoli me la rido pure io, figurati...

Tanto gli ultimi viaggi che ho fatto sono stati tutti ad amsterdam e li sono chill da fare schifo

 

[sol_bad]

Not everybody can develop a thick skin, that's the problem with thinking everybody is like yourself or myself.

I have had a family member who committed suicide because they were fragile and couldn't handle things.not everybody has the ability to handle everything. Just remember that

Yes, not everyone has thick skin. But everyone has a choice as to whether they will partake in a piece of media or not. If someone doesn't have thick enough skin to play a GTA, there are other games they can play.

 

[93xfan]

Define woman.

Think you're on a forum full of biologists or something?

 

[phil_t98]

Because it's censorship. And no measure of censorship should EVER be allowed, because eventually it will pile up. It's a very dangerous slippery slope.

Remember jack thompson? And what we all thought about him at the time? He's pretty much won at this point.

So you feel that people should be able to go round and say what they want? Not be censored?

 

[Guilty_AI]

So you feel that people should be able to go round and say what they want? Not be censored?

 

[Jim Ryan other Clone]

Being Italian and being LGBTQ and the rest of the alphabet is not even remotely compareable and it makes sense that games treat it differently.

I think you don't have any clue what you talk about, go speak to any immigrant and you will know what is racism. What is the difference between getting bullied because you are from another ethnicity, country and being LGBTQBBQ+-*# or trans people have more feelings. Unbelievable.

 

[PhillyPhreak11]

I'm starting to dislike Rockstar more and more.

 

[Jim Ryan other Clone]

Quando mi chiamano con quei nomignoli me la rido pure io, figurati...

Tanto gli ultimi viaggi che ho fatto sono stati tutti ad amsterdam e li sono chill da fare schifo

Everyone has this option on Android, so typing stupid things in your language is not that smart παπάρα.

 

[GymWolf]

Everyone has this option on Android, so typing stupid things in your language is not that smart παπάρα.

And why do you think that i said stupid things?

I said that i don't care when other people joke with the italian stereotypes and that my last trips were in amsterdam where the people is chill and they never called me names, the "da fare schifo" part is a common italian way to say "a lot", they are very chill and gentle (some a bit cold), i consider amsterdam my second city, i would love to live there one day in the future.

I know that people can traduce what i say, i was just being a good guascone with my italian compatriot (you can traduce guascone by yourself )

Not sure why do you even felt the need to tell me these things but ok, much love from italy my dude.

 

[Fuz]

I know that people can traduce what i say, i was just being a good guascone with my italian compatriot (you can traduce guascone by yourself )

He thought you were saying SUPER SECRET THINGS to your italian minority friend. THINGS that could damage him. But AH-AH - he's on to you.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Saying that something was done or intended to make it less offensive towards a certain group of people isnt speaking for those people. My take on it is no more egregious than anyone elses take in this thread for that regard, unless everyone else here is trans, which is not the case. This is a message board. I posted my two cents, not speaking for the trans communities reaction on it(which im willing to bet zero folks here care bout) but speaking on MY reaction to it and why I think it was done. Even if someone quoted a trans person saying they hated the change and it was bad for trans folks, then THEYD be speaking on behalf of the entire trans community.

Ultimately the dev made a change THEY saw fir because they wanted to change how they presented themselves in this regard. It doesn't affect the game and my comment on it serves only to detail what I think about it.

You actively spoke on behalf of trans folks in your post, mate. You made the assumption for a large group of people that this change was the better for them. Meanwhile we have actual trans folks in this thread that are decrying the censorship. You can try to twist your words as much as you like, but you know damn well what you did and everyone can see it. Maybe get your head out of your arse before you make any sweeping declarations again.

 

[GymWolf]

He thought you were saying SUPER SECRET THINGS to your italian minority friend. THINGS that could damage him. But AH-AH - he's on to you.

I mie capezzolini piccini picciò stanno letteralmente fremendo al solo pensiero

 

[phil_t98]

So
People on twitter free to threaten rape and murder and go unpunished because of free speech?

 

[Rykan]

I think you don't have any clue what you talk about, go speak to any immigrant and you will know what is racism. What is the difference between getting bullied because you are from another ethnicity, country and being LGBTQBBQ+-*# or trans people have more feelings. Unbelievable.

Quit the strawman bullshit. That post wasn't about immigrants nor was it about racism in general, the post was about Italians and Italian stereotypes.

 

[GymWolf]

I think you don't have any clue what you talk about, go speak to any immigrant and you will know what is racism. What is the difference between getting bullied because you are from another ethnicity, country and being LGBTQBBQ+-*# or trans people have more feelings. Unbelievable.

Just to add some other facts to the racism thing, in italy we had important politicians with the t-shirt who said something in the line of "it's better if etna cover with magma the sicily".
(etna is the largest active volcano in europe if i remember well, it's not that far from my home...)

There was a time (and it still endure today sometimes) when north italy REALLY hated south italy, an entire important political party was founded with that reason in mind, and they were in power during some years.

A lot of people experienced racism and hate in their life, the lgt+ community doesn't have the exclusive.

 

[Fuz]

Just to add some other facts to the racism thing, in italy we had important politicians with the t-shirt who said something in the line of "it's better if etna cover with magma the sicily".
(etna is the largest active volcano in europe if i remember well, it's not that far from my home...)

There was a time (and it still endure today sometimes) when north italy REALLY hated south italy, an entire important political party was founded with that reason in mind, and they were in power during some years.

A lot of people experienced racism and hate in their life, the lgt+ community doesn't have the exclusive.

CAMURRìA!

pls send me 10kg of stigghìuole.

 

[nemiroff]

So
People on twitter free to threaten rape and murder and go unpunished because of free speech?

Who's saying that?

 

[Fuz]

So
People on twitter free to threaten rape and murder and go unpunished because of free speech?

I was sure we were getting to the stupidest strawman retort in the history of debating. Godwin's Law never fails.

 

[Krappadizzle]

So
People on twitter free to threaten rape and murder and go unpunished because of free speech?

I'm not sure you know what free speech is. You have to take all the BAD with the good. You act like making threats is legal. It's not.

The problem with anti-free speech folks is that they fail to understand that if they weren't on the side of whatever current topic is more popular to be biased against, they'd be censored out the ass and then decrying the anti-free speech. It's a who watches the watchmen kind of thing.

You don't have the right to not be offended. You have the right to ignore whatever you want. A threat of rape, murder, etc., is still illegal regardless of censorship. So in order to keep an honest and open dialogue you have to risk being offended.

 

[Giallo Corsa]

Just to add some other facts to the racism thing, in italy we had important politicians with the t-shirt who said something in the line of "it's better if etna cover with magma the sicily".
(etna is the largest active volcano in europe if i remember well, it's not that far from my home...)

There was a time (and it still endure today sometimes) when north italy REALLY hated south italy, an entire important political party was founded with that reason in mind, and they were in power during some years.

A lot of people experienced racism and hate in their life, the lgt+ community doesn't have the exclusive.

Nope, i don't believe you.
You're literally Mussolini.
PS : stop posting in a super-secret language that can't be translated by an obvious google translation.

PS : The constant back and forth, bickering and name-calling between members, plus the obvious strawman shit in this topic is getting tedious and - unfortunately - remind me of that very specific forum that everyone in here hates.
Everyone just chill the fook out and try (?) to have a healthy conversation for God's sake without resorting to irony, insinuations and name calling, it's just unbecoming ffs.

 

[Guilty_AI]

So
People on twitter free to threaten rape and murder and go unpunished because of free speech?

They already get away with it anyway , might as well liberate everything

 

[Wulfer]

So
People on twitter free to threaten rape and murder and go unpunished because of free speech?

You should think about this way under today's definition of free speech, you wouldn't have porn if it wasn't already legal. This is how fall back we've come. Now, we're moving to into separating into groups and categories. I thought we went through the 60's and 70's to get away from all that????

 

[Toons]

You actively spoke on behalf of trans folks in your post, mate. You made the assumption for a large group of people that this change was the better for them. Meanwhile we have actual trans folks in this thread that are decrying the censorship. You can try to twist your words as much as you like, but you know damn well what you did and everyone can see it. Maybe get your head out of your arse before you make any sweeping declarations again.

I made no sweeping declarations. I stated why they did what they did plain and simple. Individual trans folk can say whatever they like, but that's the reason it was done.

 

[Toons]

The issue is hypocrisy.

R* are essentially saying "These words have offended people so they're being removed from this murder simulator." Are mean words between fictional characters worse than the glorification of violence, criminals and drugs? It's a wierd stance to take.

The violence isn't discriminatory or directed at any particular group though. Nor is it.... actually harmful, its not really violence nor is it intended to harm. As another user said some of the stuff here isn't even presented as jokes, its just... discriminatory statements against a particular group.

 

[Putonahappyface]

1\8 is enough to have good taste for food, women, cars and an average sized penis.

I'll take the 1/8th.

 

[Earthbound!]

I think it is better if we move on from this argument, i don't wanna pass for an insensible bastard with someone who had a loss close to him.

Nothing personal, and my condolences for the loss mentioned as well, but with this already a pedantic cesspool of a conversation anyway, how about not using the word Bastard in a negative context immediately after saying you don't want to appear insensitive. I know the ERA sensitivity squad doesn't give a shit about that because it's not one of their aligned groups, probably even against them overall because of their support for state sponsored mostly Bastard fetus genocide, they tout it proudly in their ACAB (all cops are Bastards) slogan after all, which they wouldn't dare do with one of their own "no no" words. But if we cut out the bullshit politics and just look at what should be the underlying goal of respect and dignity for everyone that isn't committing serious crimes or harming society and their peers; and not intentionally or unintentionally flinging shit and harmful characterizations with basic daily PG vernacular, the word Bastard in a negative context should be cut out too. I know it's just another banned word for the pile, but as I've already mentioned with ACAB, I think it it has the added benefit of exposing the word police for the self interested hypocrites they are.