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Rottenwatch: THE DARK KNIGHT

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Mr. Spinnington said:
; /


really? that's all that kept you?
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Well I was waiting on a friend that was trying to get out of an arrangement he'd already made, but then he couldn't get out of it, and by the time he let me know it was all booked up.

I have no hang ups about going to the movies by myself, I actually went and saw Begins opening night by myself because all my friends thought it would suck.
 
Lakitu said:
Fuck, I'd see The Dark Knight with a bunch of tranny hookers, couldn't care less.
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ya but you're still seeing it with someone.

wtf is so inhibiting about going to a movie by yourself? i've never understood why that's a reason to call it quits if you really care to see something asap
NutJobJim said:
Well I was waiting on a friend that was trying to get out of an arrangement he'd already made, but then he couldn't get out of it, and by the time he let me know it was all booked up.

I have no hang ups about going to the movies by myself, I actually went and saw Begins opening night by myself because all my friends thought it would suck.
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makes more sense then. still i know that on a general basis people would wait for someone to hold their hand into a theater before going in alone
 
Mr. Spinnington said:
ya but you're still seeing it with someone.

wtf is so inhibiting about going to a movie by yourself? i've never understood why that's a reason to call it quits if you really care to see something asap

makes more sense then. still i know that on a general basis people would wait for someone to hold their hand into a theater before going in alone
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I actually went to see Batman and Robin by myself. Guess my friends had better sense =(
 
zaccheus said:
i went to see enchanted because it had a 90% on rotten tomatoes

what a fucking disaster
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Did the same and it's the one time RT has been good for anything. Great, great movie.
 
zaccheus said:
i went to see enchanted because it had a 90% on rotten tomatoes

what a fucking disaster
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I looked up the RT rating after I finished watching that thing, and was shocked. I was even more surprised to see that Stardust had done much worse.

If Enchanted was an actual parody of the Disney Princess movie, it would've been great (like how Emperor's New Groove was great as a parody of well, cartoons and films in general).
 
NutJobJim said:
I wanted to see it in London’s IMAX but I didn't have anybody to go with me on opening night and its now fully booked. It's also pretty much fully booked for all showing on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday (unless you want to sit in the front row.) I think I'll have to see it in a regular theatre opening night and then see it in IMAX a week later. Also expect to pay close to £12.50 when you see it in the IMAX (you can check price and availability on their website)
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I already booked my tickets for IMAX. First showing at 5:30 with my girlfriend, I had the website set up as my home page for about a month so I wouldn't miss it :lol Never been to it though, hopefully it's nice. I haven't been in an IMAX theater in about 10 years.
 
Keen said:
I actually went to see Batman and Robin by myself. Guess my friends had better sense =(
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Saw it with two friends.

We enjoyed belittling how awful it was.

And I got to enjoy the Smashing Pumpkins at the end credits. So hey.
 
batbeg said:
I already booked my tickets for IMAX. First showing at 5:30 with my girlfriend, I had the website set up as my home page for about a month so I wouldn't miss it :lol Never been to it though, hopefully it's nice. I haven't been in an IMAX theater in about 10 years.
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Haha nice :D I've never been to the IMAX but hear its pretty sweet.
 
Two of my colleagues work for Warner and just came back from the only Press screening in France. Both gave glowing reviews and one of them hates superhero movies.

Aug. 14th is way too far :(
 
David Poland has his review up on Rotten Tomatoes. He was the one who got a LOT of heat because his was the first review of Matrix Reloaded and he said it sucked compared to Matrix 1 and was eventually vindicated. Then he was critical of Superman and got alot of heat and got vindicated on that too.

And because you read the review, something hilarious in the review....he thinks the movie is too short but eventually reaching the levels of the Untouchables

The Long, Dark, Good Knight

I quite liked The Dark Knight.

Christopher Nolan and his collaborators quite carefully walked the line, as others have already noticed, between a classic movie cop drama and a comic book. This is inherently the strength and the weakness of the work. The mere effort to combine the two, combined with the degree of filmmaking skill involved, makes this film not only enjoyable, but somewhat important.

However, the schizophrenia of the effort is also what keeps this film from being a masterpiece on any level.

I am going to avoid spoilers in this review. Thing is, it’s hard to imagine that any more than 10% of the audience for this film don’t know the biggest “spoiler” is coming before walking into the theater. How it comes is, it would seem, the only surprise.

Anyway…

What Nolan is clearly reaching for is a Godfather-esque effort. You can feel all the corrections of his first film… all the improvements by spending more freely… all the “stuff we would have done differently.” And almost all of them are, indeed, improvements. Maggie Gyllenhaal in for Katie Holmes was a step up, though in the context of the two films, switching actresses was unfortunate. Either one appearing in both would have been better. And eliminating Wayne Manor and The Batcave for a penthouse and array of basement hideouts is a daring, odd, and nearly unspoken call.

Still, it speaks to Nolan’s agenda. This is not a Batman movie… this is a 2008 version of The Untouchables with The Batman as Elliot Ness, The Joker as Al Capone, much better toys, and, it seems, a topper.

Great.

But the topper is a bit unwieldy, in that it makes the film too long to sustain by pushing beyond the main story – DePalma and Mamet’s The Untouchables was 119 minutes – and too short to do the second push of Nolan’s thematic idea real justice at 152 minutes. Unlike many long films, the problem with The Dark Knight is that it is too short.

The movie works really well – however pitch black and undeniably inappropriate for any kid who isn’t over 12 or playing Grand Theft Auto with mom & dad’s blessing – in delivering The Joker’s mayhem in the first 100 minutes or so. (Actual timings were impossible as, for the third time in my career, my camera-free Blackberry, aka my movie watch, was disallowed from the screening.

Ledger is terrific, though the Oscar talk is pretty goofy… something I am convinced he would agree with were he alive. Ledger’s embrace of sheer mayhem and recklessness in playing The Joker makes for a perfect counterbalance for the sphincter-tight self-seriousness of The Batman, as played by Christian Bale.

But that is not where Nolan & Co are really heading. For all the magnificent IMAX landscapes and cool action sequences (this film is destined to provoke many discussions of who Nolan was stealing from, who he topped, and who he fell short of), Nolan’s real interest is in the bigger moral question that goes well beyond The Batman and The Joker. Faced with chaos, how will the civilians act? Who is willing to break rules and what is the cost of breaking them or nor breaking them? How close is any society from anarchy?

When it is limited to the two central costumed figures, it is pure Untouchables. “I have become what I beheld” translates quite directly to Joker’s “You complete me,” which also harkens back to Tom Burton’s controversial choice to have his Joker’s origin come down to “I made you… and you made me.” Moreover, The Joker suggests directly that they, as a pair, are nature in the Garden of Gotham, the immovable object and the unstoppable force.

But the “extra part” of the movie, the topper, is not about them, it’s about about collateral damage… real humans in a real city with real ambitions to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

And that is where it feels like Nolan is forced – by time - to restrain himself. For the first time in the movie, characters have to explain themselves, over and over and over again. (Well, one in particular.) Strong ideas don’t seem as clear and complete as they do earlier in the film. And the keynote of the last part of the film is delivered by a character we really don’t know (though the actor will be familiar to everyone), while other grace notes are offered in montage.

I wanted that movie that Nolan was chasing. I really wanted that movie. But as is the nature of the dramatic arts, there is a mystical and undeniable gut feeling when you know that even the best film has come to its natural end. And in The Dark Knight, this occurs more than half an hour before the picture actually ends… maybe an hour… before the issue of collateral damage.

With $50 million and 45 minutes more to paint in – a second film containing about 45 minutes of this one – Nolan surely could have delivered his Godfather. He would have the time to more completely explore the powerful issues of how civilians and police and criminals and yes, even costumed folks, behave when they are in the midst of what feels like unstoppable anarchy. He would have the time to really give a proper middle to the story that is there to push past The Joker’s story. And most importantly, he would have had a bit more time to deal with Bruce Wayne and The Batman trying to come up with the right answer to it all.

From a purely business angle, this film will absolutely be limited by its content. Word of mouth about the personal and realistic violence of the film will keep women and younger kids out of the theater after opening weekend and waiting for DVD. And the length of the movie will cost a screening a day on opening weekend… more in big multis where four or five screenings a day will be lost. Obviously, there will still be plenty of room for a massive opening weekend gross. But the pre-word-of-mouth opportunity will be lessened. And no matter how good the film, the darkness will be a factor.

Had this been two 110 minute films, the box office for both would have been nearly identical, doubling the total revenue while increasing costs by roughly a third. A win all around.

But… The Dark Knight is what it is. And that’s still quite good… and explosively good for the base that is busting, waiting for this film.

There may be a director’s cut someday with the 30 minutes that was apparently in a cut as recently as two months ago. Maybe it will speak to these issues. Maybe not.

But The Dark Knight is a terrific film. And though it is an effort to be a retro, high quality crime drama in a cape and cowl, in looking back, it is looking forward and breaking new ground. It is the first big studio comic book movie since the pre-Superman: The Movie era to try to make more of less, while at the same time offering all the more that studios think they need to deliver.

It is fascinating that this is coming from the same studio in the same summer as The Wachowski’s latest groundbreaker. I believe that The Wachowskis got caught up in their Matrix sequels with an idea they didn’t completely know they were caught up in, with each of their three films arguing a step in the evolution of Neo, each episode closer tied to spirituality than the next. (Kubrick’s way of fixing this was to keep re-shooting endlessly… but the puzzle of Eyes Wide Shut still kept that masterpiece audience unfriendly.) The packaging of the central idea in the first Matrix film was so neat and the packaging in the second and third film so uncertain – you have to work hard for it – that it provoked rather than seduced audiences. Likewise, with Speed Racer, they busted the genre brilliantly, but potential audiences never got the real central idea – family, however structured, is everything and subsuming the personal for those you love is an honor, not a burden – and were distracted exclusively by the racing effects.

And here we have Christopher Nolan saying that you can do a straight drama with guys in wild costumes and live by most of the rules of straight drama. It is the skill and convention of Nolan’s action sequences that will keep audiences close to home as he breaks new ground.

Nolan is working with the same crayon box as The Coen Bros, bouncing from Blood Simple to Miller’s Crossing to No Country For Old Men. The Dark Knight is big time philosophy… which should get unanimous raves, since critics who don’t like to think too much will be able to understand it. (Some, like Peter Travers, will just want to be quoted and will hyperbolize as much as they can to win the quoting wars.) But still, it deserves some unanimity of support and appreciation. It must be hailed for both its ambitions and execution.

The Dark Knight fails to reach the highest level of the form – not the comic book form, the movie form – because it ultimately has to cut away from its ambitions and blow some stuff up real good. If Nolan had the opportunity to have a more even balance between explosions and ideas, it could have been that masterpiece that was prayed for.

A spoiler review will follow in a few days to discuss the many sequences and ideas worth discussing in depth. I’m going to see the film again before writing that one.

Posted by poland on July 9, 2008 01:08 PM | Permalink
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"The Dark Knight fails to reach the highest level of the form – not the comic book form, the movie form – because it ultimately has to cut away from its ambitions and blow some stuff up real good. If Nolan had the opportunity to have a more even balance between explosions and ideas, it could have been that masterpiece that was prayed for."

That's really interesting. I felt exactly the same way about "Hancock" when I stepped out of the theater (though Hancock probably didn't hold the same degree of potential as Batman did).

If Hancock had been made as a movie about a superhero rather than as a superhero movie it could have been so much more than it was. But in the end it had to rear in its philosophical side to conform to the confines of the genre.

Sort of like a guy giving up on finding the woman of his dreams and settling for the boring but nice and conveniently available chick because his parents are pressuring him for some grandkids.
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http://www.mcnblogs.com/thehotbutton/2008/07/the_darkest_longest_knight.html
 
The review above was only modestly positive, but he also called Eyes Wide Shut a masterpiece, so his taste in films is shit anyway.
 
JayDubya said:
The review above was only modestly positive, but he also called Eyes Wide Shut a masterpiece, so his taste in films is shit anyway.
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I think it was a lot more positive than you're picking up. The guy basically said that Nolan barely fell short of his own Godfather.

I mean, he reviewed it from a different perspective. But I sitll think that's a hugely positive review. Plus, it's like someone else said before-- if the worst you can say about a film is that they wanted more, then that's a complaint they'll happily take.
 
Scullibundo said:
Get that spoiler shit out of this thread. I didn't need to know that
joker's storyline ends at all before the end of the movie you fucker.
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I actually didn't know that either, that was speculation. just so everyone's chill on that.



Holy shit, reading all the reactions I really should have worded that differently.:lol Trust me guys, i've stayed as spoiler free as possible. I couldn't possibly spoil anything! Oh god damnit, why did I go to bed right after I posted that...
 
Something I noticed in the prologue (spoilers only if you're virgintight® about the movie's content):

The grenade that goes into Fichtner's mouth is tied to the Joker's jacket, unraveling as he walks into the bus. Such a cool little thing that says so much about the character.
 
So this thread already has spoilers and people are throwing stones at RT. In essence, its already become the previous TDK thread :lol
 
artredis1980 said:
David Poland has his review up on Rotten Tomatoes. He was the one who got a LOT of heat because his was the first review of Matrix Reloaded and he said it sucked compared to Matrix 1 and was eventually vindicated. Then he was critical of Superman and got alot of heat and got vindicated on that too.

And because you read the review, something hilarious in the review....he thinks the movie is too short but eventually reaching the levels of the Untouchables



http://www.mcnblogs.com/thehotbutton/2008/07/the_darkest_longest_knight.html
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I don't think you read Polands review of Matrix Reloaded. He's a total fanboy.
 
Solo said:
So this thread already has spoilers and people are throwing stones at RT. In essence, its already become the previous TDK thread :lol
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When the main thread is down, these "civilized" posters will eat themselves. You'll see. Solo'll show ya. :P

Is it possible to create a OMG TOTAL SPOILERZ Dark Knight thread and then move those posts with spoilers above to that thread?
 
They could just be moved to the existing thread, which is spoiler-ridden (but locked). Then you could have a spoiler-free one and a spoilergasm one.
 
Well, to be honest, after next Friday, I don't know if there will really be a need for a spoiler free thread, as everyone and their grandmother will have seen the movie. :lol
 
:lol The only "spoilers" in this thread are mine, which wasn't even a real spoiler! Damnit man, YOU GOTTA BELIEVE ME.
 
Skiptastic said:
When the main thread is down, these "civilized" posters will eat themselves. You'll see. Solo'll show ya. :P

Is it possible to create a OMG TOTAL SPOILERZ Dark Knight thread and then move those posts with spoilers above to that thread?
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I think that has been done twice already. People will insist on posting spoilers in spoiler-free threads.
 
Skiptastic said:
Well, to be honest, after next Friday, I don't know if there will really be a need for a spoiler free thread, as everyone and their grandmother will have seen the movie. :lol
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We have to wait until the 24th in the UK :lol

I don't know why I'm laughing-it certainly isn't funny :(
 
EMBee99 said:
Something I noticed in the prologue (spoilers only if you're virgintight® about the movie's content):

The grenade that goes into Fichtner's mouth is tied to the Joker's jacket, unraveling as he walks into the bus. Such a cool little thing that says so much about the character.
Click to expand...


Another thing I noticed:

Anyone else notice that the Joker in the Prologue has a noticeable limp when he's running into the bank? I guess just another little character bit
 
Advance IMAX ticket sales demonstrate the huge enthusiasm surrounding the
movie:

- Advance IMAX ticket sales have already surpassed $2 million, more than a week prior to opening
- Over 100 shows are already sold out
- 93 domestic IMAX theatres have added midnight screenings
- Many IMAX theatres in the USA are adding 3am shows, and some are screening non-stop for 24 hours to meet the high moviegoer demands
- Chicago's Navy Pier and the Palisades Center (West Nyack, NY) IMAX theatres will run shows non-stop for 72 hours
http://www.superherohype.com/news/batmannews.php?id=7457
 
Riskbreaker23 said:
im in the same boat as you but i dont think im driving 2 hours to see it in IMAX
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Unless they put one in Macon or here in my hometown of Warner Robins anytime in the near future, it will probably be a while before I see anything on an IMAX screen.
 
Riskbreaker23 said:
i live in WR too. :lol
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I'll be damned...never thought I'd see the day that I saw another person that lived in my town on here. The wife and I are going to see it on Friday night at the Galleria. I got our tix last week.
 
I want to go in this movie as batvirgin as possible.

So can anyone tell me how spoiler heavy is the prologue? I want to watch it but am a bit scared. I have seen all the trailers (except TV spots and the IGN clips), for what it counts.
 
dmshaposv said:
I want to go in this movie as batvirgin as possible.

So can anyone tell me how spoiler heavy is the prologue? I want to watch it but am a bit scared. I have seen all the trailers (except TV spots and the IGN clips), for what it counts.
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Not really any spoilers but if you haven't seen it yet, and you're going to see the movie anyways I would just wait.
 
dmshaposv said:
I want to go in this movie as batvirgin as possible.

So can anyone tell me how spoiler heavy is the prologue? I want to watch it but am a bit scared. I have seen all the trailers (except TV spots and the IGN clips), for what it counts.
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What the hell?

It's the first six minutes of the movie. So it, umm, spoils the first six minutes of the movie.

Although I will say that if your only option is to watch it online, wait for the theater.
 
What the hell? The only times Imax is showing this is 9 am or 1:40 am. I might go 9 am on friday, but I can only pray it is empty because everyone is at work. No way I would go on the weekend.

I guess i'm going early then on the 18th.
 
Just got 4 tickets to the midnight screening at the biggest multiplex in town. Oddly enough, I like theater crowds, especially at a midnight showing.
 
storybook77 said:
I'll be damned...never thought I'd see the day that I saw another person that lived in my town on here. The wife and I are going to see it on Friday night at the Galleria. I got our tix last week.
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i probably get some when i go to see hellboy
 
pizzaguysrevenge said:
Anyone else going on Saturday?

I could've gone opening day but I refuse to see this movie while the sun is up.
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The sun is up at the midnight showing and friday evening showings?
 
Coin Return said:
Just got 4 tickets to the midnight screening at the biggest multiplex in town. Oddly enough, I like theater crowds, especially at a midnight showing.
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That is the only time when theater crowds are cool.
 
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