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Rottenwatch: THE DARK KNIGHT

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So after yesterday's IMAX screenings, there is nothing until the movie opens on Friday (or Thursday night, if you prefer), correct?
 
Oh baby that was good. Might see it again tomorrow. I need to see it again regardless. Needs chewing over.

Its definitely a fair claim to compare it to Empire Strikes Back of sequels. But I wouldn't call it the T2 of sequels.

Slow first 30 mins followed by heart-pounding intensity for the rest of the film. When people say intensity they use it lightly to describe a lot of shit going on. I use it as in TENSE. It had me clutching my fucking seat.
 
Amir0x said:
70 Newsweek David Ansen
50 Time Out New York David Fear
50 New York Magazine David Edelstein
50 The New Yorker David Denby

THE CONSPIRACY CONTINUES
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The fact is, most New Yorkers are pretty damn educated and often offer critical insights about popular media. Actually, I welcome these reviews, and I despise irrational fanboyism, since it blinds objectivity and critical assessment.
 
Damn, mainstream media is really juicing up this movie. The woman on CNN's American Morning could not stop talking about how amazing Heath's Joker performance was. They actually had to cut her off after she said it for the third time. And now MSNBC is about to run a story about how this might be the scariest villian performance in years. These aren't even reviews, they were just talking about it. I love it when normal people get geeked about Batman. :D

I still have to wait until Friday morning to see this. :(
 
Scullibundo said:
But I wouldn't call it the T2 of sequels.
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Isnt this a good thing, as T2 was basically a remake with 10x the production values of T1? BB wasnt ridiculously low budget like T1 was, so if TDK were just a retread then I think many would have been rightfully pissed off. T1 was a movie that cried out to be redone when technology had advanced far enough to match up with the concept. BB was not.
 
I'm so happy Nolan's about to make all the fucking money he deserves for his fuck awesome career. The man's gonna have carte blanche to do whatever he want after this film, and that can only mean incredible things. I want to personally send him $20 to cover the cost my tickets.
 
Solo said:
Yes, because the idea of a conspiracy is funny. So now I bring it up again for laughs. Why so serious?
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im just not a big fan of how every begins/dark knight thread on the other forum has many posts discussing the gaf reaction to the movie instead of the movie itself.

but that isn't a discussion for gaf. i'll take it to the other forum.
 
Solo said:
Isnt this a good thing, as T2 was basically a remake with 10x the production values of T1? BB wasnt ridiculously low budget like T1 was, so if TDK were just a retread then I think many would have been rightfully pissed off. T1 was a movie that cried out to be redone when technology had advanced far enough to match up with the concept. BB was not.
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I wasn't talking about quality. Believe me when I say its not a spoiler - I wouldn't dare risk of spoiling a single second of this magnificent film, but you'll understand what I mean when you've seen the film.
 
woodchuck said:
im just not a big fan of how every begins/dark knight thread on the other forum has many posts discussing the gaf reaction to the movie instead of the movie itself.

but that isn't a discussion for gaf. i'll take it to the other forum.
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What the fuck are you talking about?
 
Not exactly for The dark knight, but since I lvoe nolan, i'll post it here:

Depth of Field
16 July 2008
Knowing Nolan

With only a half dozen films in his little over a decade old canon, Christopher Nolan stands at the crossroads of artform greatness. Not just being the best of his kind, but as an auteur worthy of names like Kubrick, Hitchcock, and Lumet. He’s no “next Spielberg” Shyamalan or foot draggingly difficult David O. Russell. Instead, he’s the bellwether for a new kind of filmmaker, one that successfully merges Hollywood classicism with the best of the post-modern revision. Looking at the six films he’s made since emerging in 1996, one can witness the development and growth of an innovative icon, someone schooled in the old ways of working while finding novel means of making his far reaching, philosophical points. With The Dark Knight about to signal his ascension into undeniable importance, let’s look back over his oeuvre to see just where it all started - and how he earned his new illustrious rank.

Following (1996)
Offering an initial glimpse into what would soon be a full blown motion picture aesthetic, Nolan’s no-budget debut is a celebratory shape of good things to come. Few have seen this minor monochrome masterwork, a combination of the best that noir and the post-modern approach to film has to offer. Intercutting between a writer’s unusual obsession (he follows people inconspicuously as they go about their daily life) and a pseudo crime caper involving a burglar and a babe, Nolan acknowledges his limits while simultaneously using every deception he knows in the language of film. Filming with amateurs over a year of weekends, the resulting 69 minutes stand as a blueprint for what would soon be a career to be reckoned with.

Memento (2000)
With its eccentric cast - Carrie-Anne Moss, Joe Pantoliano, Guy Pearce - and equally unusual premise and presentation, Christopher Nolan declared his artistic worth with this wildly successful indie effort. Built out of his brother Jonathan’s short story Memento Mori, and applying a backwards story structure that bested Pulp Fiction for narrative ingenuity, the filmmaking novice vaulted past many other outside amateurs to step front and center into the critical limelight. While some argued that the movie was more gimmick than engaging, others find the mystery in reverse tactic more satisfying than the standard whodunit. Even today, eight years later, many marvel at its unique structure and cinematic daring.

Even more telling, Memento suggests the specific elements that would come to make Nolan a true directorial talent. The painstaking attention to details, the unbridled character depth, the desire that everything onscreen, from the smallest moment to the biggest big picture pronouncements, make sense are literally encased in his creation. Many miss the fact that Nolan is a brilliant writer as well. He has had a hand in every screenplay he’s ever filmed, and you can see the connection and consistency up onscreen. A movie like Memento could easily go perplexing and pear-shaped, especially in the hands of one of Hollywood’s journeymen. This is one time where high concept met even larger ability - and the result was magical.

Insomnia (2002)
It’s never easy adapting a popular foreign film for Western tastes, especially when said movie is this laconic, spellbinding thriller from Sweden. The original starred
Stellan Skarsgård as a sleep-deprived detective on the case of a murdered girl. It exposed director Erik Skjoldbjærg to audiences worldwide, and was so well considered that the Criterion Collection gave the film one of its well-deserved Special Edition DVD treatments. So Nolan definitely had an uphill battle, especially with this being his first studio feature. Saddled with a cast that included a peak Al Pacino, a rising Hilary Swank, and a misplaced Robin Williams, the filmmaker fashioned a kind of sunlit noir, a world where the darkest elements exist within the never-ending Alaskan days.

It’s not just that the former stand-up turned middling actor is horribly wrong for the role of a sleazoid killer. Nor is it the oddball juxtaposition of European angst coming out of the mouth of high profile Hollywood faces. No, the true issue with Insomnia is one of “why bother”. Sure, Nolan seamlessly weaves the worlds of memory and immediacy, effortlessly swinging between flashback and fact, and he makes the most of his frozen tundra location. But Skjoldbjærg’s version was just as good, and Skarsgård gave a heartbreaking performance. So a remake was merely a matter of foreign film snobbery. No matter the genius of the man behind the lens, this version of Insomnia still seems unnecessary.

Batman Begins (2005)
It was a monumental task that any director would find daunting. Warner Brothers, desperate to revamp the Caped Crusader after Joel Schumacher and his day-glo frightmares more or less killed him off, was looking for some fresh new talent to take over the franchise. While names like Tarantino and Aronofsky were tossed about, Nolan got the nod. From the very beginning, he put his stamp on the project. He hired Christian Bale to play a decidedly tormented Bruce Wayne. He focused on less famous villains like Scarecrow and Ra’s al Ghul. He wiped away the cartoon sheen suggested by the material and set all the action within a dire, depressively realistic Gotham City. This new approach clicked. Audiences adored Nolan’s aggressive update, and critics applauded his originality and artistry.

This is definitely not Tim Burton’s Batman. Gone are the Goth tinged tricks and A-list anarchy. In their place are real performances from actors doing everything to make this material feel fully realized and totally authentic. Bale is especially good, though his breathy ‘Bat whisper’ gets the occasional fanboy in a lather. Yet Nolan wisely surrounded him with a supporting cast including old world wonders like Michael Caine (great as Alfred), new school sages like Liam Neeson, and up and comers like Cillian Murphy (hauntingly creepy as Scarecrow/ Dr. Crane). With a clockwork narrative allowing all plot points to neatly fall into place, Batman Begins represented a new era for the comic book movie - one that Nolan would again redefine five years later.

The Prestige (2006)
In the year that passed after Begins broke through both critically and commercially, everyone wondered what Nolan would do next. While many wanted to see another installment of Gotham in chaos, they would have to wait for a future opening day. Instead, the director and his gifted screenwriter brother created a remarkable adaptation of the Christopher Priest novel. Oddly enough, of the two films centering on old world magicians to arrive that year (along with The Illusionist), Nolan’s was the lesser mainstream hit. But what it lacked in financial windfalls it made up for in motion picture artistry. In a year that celebrated Martin Scorsese’s Departed with an Oscar, and saw stellar work arrive from Darren Aronofsky in the form of The Fountain, The Prestige was the year’s best film.

At its core, The Prestige plays with notions of fascination, dedication and deception. It starts out as a professional battle of wills between two talented men, and ends up a sad comment on how low mere men will go to best each other. Bale is back, becoming a seasoned member of the Nolan creative company with his turn here, and Hugh Jackman delivers yet another insanely good performance as the showman who’s more flash than onstage substance. While both parts offer their fair share of nuance, the Aussie bests his British rival, reveling in a snarky kind of smarm that makes your skin crawl as your heart breaks. A few years from now, when Nolan has settled into his multiple award winning career, The Prestige will be seen as his strong creative breakthrough. It stands as one of cinema’s strongest statements.

The Dark Knight (2008)
With his last film underperforming and the studio anxious for more Batmania, Nolan began the process of revisiting Gotham by looking for his next supervillian. At the end of Begins, Gary Oldman’s Sgt. Gordon (soon to be Commissioner) shows the Caped Crusader a piece of evidence - a playing/calling card for someone known as the Joker. With this dynamic already set up, the director started casting. Several people suggested Michael Keaton as the character, a nice bit of symmetry to the previous run of films. Others suggested Crispin Glover, Mark Hammill (who voiced the character in the cartoon update), and even an aging Jack Nicholson. Nolan went with Heath Ledger, the Australian actor best known for his work in Monster’s Ball, Brokeback Mountain, and I’m Not There. It turned out to be an inspired choice…and a tragic one. After filming was completed, Ledger would die of an accidental drug overdose.

A combination of menace and melancholy looms over The Dark Knight, painting its masterful crime epic sweep in uncomfortable shades of interpersonal doom. Nolan’s latest is indeed a masterpiece, albeit one that avoids all the pitfalls that come with being yet another Summer box office draw. Blockbusters don’t get much darker and demanding than this, a 150 minute descent into the fractured psyche of four unflappable men. Along with Bale and Ledger, Oldman returns for more Gordon drama, and just when you thought we’d found a hero to save Gotham, Aaron Eckhart’s Harvey Dent goes from conqueror to conquered in a literal blaze of g(l)ory. His Two-Face is just one of many amazing features in this Oscar worthy effort, a true indication that Christopher Nolan is the best director working in films today.

—Bill Gibron
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http://www.popmatters.com/pm/blogs/post/60954/knowing-nolan/#
 
Solo said:
So after yesterday's IMAX screenings, there is nothing until the movie opens on Friday (or Thursday night, if you prefer), correct?
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There is the Christopher Nolan tribute in Chicago today. Other than that, nothing.


Anyway, 1 more day to go. Uh the wait...
 
If I get any more excited for this movie, I will have to see a doctor.

I'm leaving Kentucky tomorrow night to travel to Knoxville, TN for the 3:00am IMAX screening. I'm off work until Friday with nothing to do, so I guess I'll go shopping for Dark Knight t-shirts to wear for tomorrow. Yeeaaahhhh I'm serious.
 
woodchuck said:
im just not a big fan of how every begins/dark knight thread on the other forum has many posts discussing the gaf reaction to the movie instead of the movie itself.
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99.99% of us havent seen the movie yet, so what else us there to discuss before Friday? We're just killing time by shooting the shit.
 
MSNBC report said that The Dark Knight was making up 89.9% of Fandango.com sales right now. :lol

I'm just so excited that the movie is getting this big. Begins did well, but it didn't destroy the box office like the Spider-Man films did. I'm not getting my hopes up yet, but I'd love to see The Dark Knight steal the crown.
 
brandonh83 said:
If I get any more excited for this movie, I will have to see a doctor.

I'm leaving Kentucky tomorrow night to travel to Knoxville, TN for the 3:00am IMAX screening. I'm off work until Friday with nothing to do, so I guess I'll go shopping for Dark Knight t-shirts to wear for tomorrow. Yeeaaahhhh I'm serious.
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Hot Topic has some pretty bad ass shirts. :D
 
I don't think I ever heard the official reason for dropping Katie Holmes (I never entered that giant TDK thread more than once). Surely they couldn't tell the trade papers she was loathsome and unsympathetic?
 
Ford Prefect said:
I don't think I ever heard the official reason for dropping Katie Holmes (I never entered that giant TDK thread more than once). Surely they couldn't tell the trade papers she was loathsome and unsympathetic?
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Official reason was she declined to come back.

Unofficial reason was CRUISE MISSILE!
 
giga said:

But really--About.com? Do I give a rat's ass about this when I know the movie is just fucking fantastic. IMAX was just the icing.

Lol at his review:

"Christopher Nolan and Maggie Gyllenhaal just aren’t enough of an indie connection to cover this on Worldfilm, so I’ll just say this here: godawful. Two hours and twenty minutes, a gazillion dollars, a sterling cast, and an eight story IMAX screen weren’t enough for this movie to tickle a single thrill out of me. Instead, endless turgid tripe about vigilante morals, heaps of vicious violence, Gotham City politics that play a little bit like The Wire, only stupid, and muddled action sequences that are — and I say this without hyperbole — duller than the scenes in which Bruce Wayne is having dinner. "

This guy is full of shit.
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Yeah. I read through his review. It's full of unmarked spoilers and completely incomprehensible. God damn, I don't know why it upsets me because dumb reviews like this hardly ever garners my ire, but this guy had the audacity to assume this little gold nugget (and i'm quoting him word for word) : "Tim Burton knew how to have fun with Batman rather than turning it into plodding, puffed-up kitsch mistaking itself for profound psycho noir that the source material won’t support." I love it how he assumes that the source material is incapable of supporting something as thematic or profound as what i watched yesterday. Because, you know, Batman has to be campy. Or Gothic. Batman can tackle moral issues. No, that won't be suitable. He's entitled to his opinion, but making a broad statement that condemns both the movie and the source material in one sentence has to be the mark of a man lacking any resemblance of intelligence. I think it's the fact that he has never read any of the "source material" that pisses me off. The books are not great literature, but they're more than capable of addressing moral issues like that guy is more than capable of being a moron.
 
Easily the worst Batman film so far, and I include Batman & Robin in that statement.
Full Review | comment 43 Comments
07/16/08
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Rotten rating. From the ACTUAL REVIEW:
I just wanted to see if a negative quote on Rotten Tomatoes would get me the same kind of psychopathic comments that other negative reviews have gotten. If it does, I guess that means those idiots really are just going by the one-sentence quotes, and not actually clicking over to read the whole review.
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:lol :lol :lol
 
Amir0x said:
70 Newsweek David Ansen
50 Time Out New York David Fear
50 New York Magazine David Edelstein
50 The New Yorker David Denby

THE CONSPIRACY CONTINUES
Click to expand...

:lol ANOTHER ONE


Armond White
New York Press

Ratings Image
N/A

The generation of consumers who swallow this pessimistic sentiment can’t see past the product to its debased morality. Instead, their excitement about The Dark Knight’s dread (that teenage thrall with subversion) inspires their fealty to product.
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Darko said:
:lol ANOTHER ONE


Armond White
New York Press
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Are there any positive reviews coming out of New York? There has to be...right?!
 
The generation of consumers who swallow this pessimistic sentiment can’t see past the product to its debased morality.
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I'm guessing he's referring to shades of grey presented in the film, which he finds offensive.
 
New Yorker - negative review
Time Out New York - negative review
New York press - negative review
About.com (aka New York Times) - negative review
Star Magazine (HQ in Manhatten) - negative review

CONCLUSION:
Not all New Yorkers are retards but all retards are New Yorkers.
 
That guy is a fucking douche....

Hell Boy 2
"The Golden Army's insultingly simplistic cast of a thousand Bosch and Star Wars creatures distracts from the identity-crisis that ought to be the point of a second installment and a larger vision." -- New York Press
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Iron Man
"Iron Man is a dispiriting attempt to apply superficial principles to inherently silly kid culture." -- New York Press
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Hulk
"It’s the crappy summer blockbuster Marvelites probably deserve." -- New York Press
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AT what point do their editors say, maybe we shouldnt send this guy to review superhero movies
 
oh man, this guy's going to get crucified.

Ledger’s already-overrated performance consists of a Ratso Rizzo voice and lots of lip-licking. But how great of an actor was Ledger to accept this trite material in the first place?
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Unlike Nicholson’s multileveled characterization, Ledger reduces The Joker to one-note ham-acting and trite symbolism.
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New York Press said:
Yet Burton attempted something dazzling: a balance of scary/satirical mood (which he nearly perfected in the 1992 Batman Returns) that gave substance to a pop-culture totem, enhancing it without sacrificing its delight. Burton didn’t need to repeat the tongue-in-cheek 1960s TV series; being romantically in touch with Catwoman, Bruce Wayne and The Penguin’s loneliness was richer.
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New York Press said:
There’s none of Burton’s satirical detachment from the crime-and-punishment theme.
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New York Press said:
As in Memento, Nolan shows rudimentary craft; his zeitgeist filmmaking—morose, obsessive, fussily executed yet emotionally unsatisfying—will only impress anyone who hasn’t seen De Palma’s genuinely, politically serious crime-fighter movie, The Black Dahlia.
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New York Press said:
“You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become a villain.” What kind of crap is that to teach our children, or swallow ourselves? Such illogic sums up hipster nihilism, just like Herzog’s Encounters at the End of the World. Putting that crap in a Batman movie panders to the naiveté of those who have not outgrown the moral simplifications of old comics but relish cynicism as smartness. That’s the point of The Joker telling Batman, “You complete me.” Tim Burton might have ridiculed that Jerry Maguire canard, but Nolan means it—his hero is as sick as his villain.
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New York Press said:
Ledger’s already-overrated performance consists of a Ratso Rizzo voice and lots of lip-licking. But how great of an actor was Ledger to accept this trite material in the first place?
Click to expand...

New York Press said:
Unlike Nicholson’s multileveled characterization, Ledger reduces The Joker to one-note ham-acting and trite symbolism.
Click to expand...

Summary: Stick to Burton's Batman, Nolan is a nihilistic, pandering, untalented, immoral hack. And Ledger sucked.
 
If he didn't like the movie, that's fine -- I'm not going to get bent out of shape over a few negative reviews -- but this New York Press guy kind of sounds like he has a vendetta or something. :lol
 
Without having seen the movie, this:

Unlike Nicholson’s multileveled characterization, Ledger reduces The Joker to one-note ham-acting and trite symbolism.

smells so fishy that it seems to render the whole review moot.
 
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