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Rottenwatch: WATCHMEN

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Shea wasn't there to
create the squid (though he might have had input, sure). In the brain of the squid they had programmed a variety of violent, dark and disturbing imagery which would be released by the implosion of the creature on arrival in New York and ensure that people had nightmares for many months afterwards. Shea was there to help create the imagery required as his comics were known for his somewhat gory subject matter
 
Extollere said:
How the hell does a writer create a squid? :lol Isn't this more of a massive scientific endeavor? I guess this whole bit will be out of the movie for sure.
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Yeah the new ending definitely gets rid of the Deus Ex Machina.
 
Zabojnik said:
Hm, I didn't actually ask, but no one mentioned it, so I guess not. The realization kind of just hits you, because even though Rorschach and, later on, Dan are trying to find the truth consistently throughout the lenght of the movie ("Who could be behind this?"), there's so much going on that you almost forget about the actual endgame. At least that's how it was for me.
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Go and ask them :D

Same question for others:

shagg_187 said:
Question for you (and everyone else who has seen Watchmen with friends):

Were they able to guess in advance that Adrian Veidt is behind all of this?
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Extollere said:
How the hell does a writer create a squid? :lol Isn't this more of a massive scientific endeavor? I guess this whole bit will be out of the movie for sure.
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He wasn't the only one there, you know.
 
Uncle said:
He wasn't the only one there, you know.
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Yeah I forgot. A writer and an Native looking female artist. Anyone else needed to create a mammoth squid? No? - ok, we're good to go. No one has ever attempted this colossal feat - The power of the sun in the palm of my hand - you and I will do it - with love!!
 
Extollere said:
Yeah I forgot. A writer and an Native looking female artist. Anyone else needed to create a mammoth squid? No? - ok, we're good to go. No one has ever attempted this colossal feat - The power of the sun in the palm of my hand - you and I will do it - with love!!
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Did you actually read the book, or did you just look at the pictures?
 
Uncle said:
Did you actually read the book, or did you just look at the pictures?
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nah - I'm pretty sure I just missed that bit of information. All I remember is seeing Shea and the artist on the island before departing. Ozymandias talked about his scientists engineering his "monster" or whatever, but I don't ever recall seeing it in the book. If there was anything else that touches on that subject I forgot it, or just missed a panel somehow. It didn't seem plausible in the book since there was no real insight or look at the development of the creature, it just appears then dies instantly. I guess he could have just teleported a bomb or something, but squids are just scary.
 
Extollere said:
nah - I'm pretty sure I just missed that bit of information. All I remember is seeing Shea and the artist on the island before departing.
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Chapter 8, the last page of the New Frontiersman bit in the end. Chapter 10, when the ship leaves.
 
Extollere said:
How the hell does a writer create a squid? :lol Isn't this more of a massive scientific endeavor? I guess this whole bit will be out of the movie for sure.
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They create an enormous backstory for the parallel dimension with a lot of horrific elements, and then broadcast aspects of it in a psychic wave when the squid hits.

There's a reason why I don't mind the new ending.
 
Ignatz Mouse said:
There's a reason why I don't mind the new ending.
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That was my least favorite part of the tale as well.

I think it would have helped if they had identified that there were other people in the world with superpowers before we have the teleporting psychic attack.

It's not as if superhero tales don't frequently include a psychic character or two anyway, but this story made it a point that Manhattan was the only one with powers.
 
Uncle said:
Chapter 8, the last page of the New Frontiersman bit in the end. Chapter 10, when the ship leaves.
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Argh this is terrible. I remember reading about the missing persons in Ch. 8. Flew over my head at the time, and didn't see the correlation between the people, how would you if you didn't know what was coming anyways, it's very subtle foreshadowing - but even more troubling, is that I missed that entire page in Ch. 10. Waaat? Pages stuck together, or just turned two at once?? I see now that they basically had an entire boat of people working on that shit. Still this begs the question.. did they all really think that they were creating a massive, living creature with a human brain, just for the sake of a movie? I mean... I understand doing something unethical for money, or keeping quiet about it...but all those people, doing research, growing human brains, making a giant monster, filled with nightmares...in secret...on an island...for a movie?
 
The two posts above mine point out my problem with it. They *did* a little handwave to psychics in the book, but it just felt like a script patch. And the "making a movie" thing never made sense. That and the premise is kinda flimsy to boot, but I give some slack since it's supposed to set off a line of questioning for the reader.
 
JayDubya said:
That was my least favorite part of the tale as well.

I think it would have helped if they had identified that there were other people in the world with superpowers before we have the teleporting psychic attack.

It's not as if superhero tales don't frequently include a psychic character or two anyway, but this story made it a point that Manhattan was the only one with powers.
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Jon probably was the only one with powers...I dunno if Ozymandias had the power directly, he probably made a machine to do it. He said that Jon proved teleportation was possible so it seems that he studied it until he could figure out how to replicate it somehow... only his didn't work as well as his test subjects spontaneously exploded every time he teleported them :lol which I still don't get - but it was kind of like how Laurie threw up every time Jon teleported her, except that's a little more reasonable.
 
Extollere said:
Jon probably was the only one with powers...I dunno if Ozymandias had the power directly, he probably made a machine to do it. He said that Jon proved teleportation was possible so it seems that he studied it until he could figure out how to replicate it somehow... only his didn't work as well as his test subjects spontaneously exploded every time he teleported them :lol which I still don't get - but it was kind of like how Laurie threw up every time Jon teleported her, except that's a little more reasonable.
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Jon is the only one with Superpowers, but Ozy seemed to discover more possibilities for life once Dr. Manhattan existed and the knowledge of these possibilities seem to lead to his 'evolution' both physically and technologically. At least that is how I read it. By the end of the book I would say in a sense Ozy was superhuman.
 
eh, i still probably would have preferred they summon the kraken just for the sake of being true to the book. but i'm not passionate about it or anything, so who gives a fuck. far worse things could have been changed.
 
BigGreenMat said:
Jon is the only one with Superpowers, but Ozy seemed to discover more possibilities for life once Dr. Manhattan existed and the knowledge of these possibilities seem to lead to his 'evolution' both physically and technologically. At least that is how I read it. By the end of the book I would say in a sense Ozy was superhuman.
Click to expand...

Which actually benefits the new ending more than the old one.
Ozy sees Manhattan as the key to further evolution, but only uses it on himself and instead uses Manhattan's power on others as a means of destroying life rather than evolving it.
 
BigGreenMat said:
Jon is the only one with Superpowers, but Ozy seemed to discover more possibilities for life once Dr. Manhattan existed and the knowledge of these possibilities seem to lead to his 'evolution' both physically and technologically. At least that is how I read it. By the end of the book I would say in a sense Ozy was superhuman.
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Yeah, Ozy definitely benefited from Jon's existence, but I thought that his whole shtick was that he was the world's smartest man. I'd still argue that he hadn't gained any physical ability beyond that of a normal human being like Jon had... hrmm although he did catch a bullet with his hand didn't he? Still. He used a machine to incinerate Jon (A trap that didn't very well work) and I'd assume that he'd have to use a machine to teleport objects as well. His physical prowess was accumulated through large amounts of training as documented in the books. But sure...with his intellect (misguided as it was) and his physical abilities, and his money and gadgetry, he was miles ahead of ordinary people.
 
Extollere said:
Jon probably was the only one with powers...I dunno if Ozymandias had the power directly, he probably made a machine to do it. He said that Jon proved teleportation was possible so it seems that he studied it until he could figure out how to replicate it somehow... only his didn't work as well as his test subjects spontaneously exploded every time he teleported them :lol which I still don't get - but it was kind of like how Laurie threw up every time Jon teleported her, except that's a little more reasonable.
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Just finished the motion comics and he says that his test subjects didn't have the mind of someone like Jon to 'guide' their teleportation.
 
beelzebozo said:
eh, i still probably would have preferred they summon the kraken just for the sake of being true to the book. but i'm not passionate about it or anything, so who gives a fuck. far worse things could have been changed.
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Yeah, I mean it's the least of an adaptation's sins. But I honestly don't get this attitude that it's possible for someone to "improve it" by changing the end of it. At what point does something stop being "Watchmen" by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons? It might not have worked for everyone, but it was his vision, clear as day. I don't see how changing it is an "improvement" and not a "compromise".
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
Yeah, I mean it's the least of an adaptation's sins. But I honestly don't get this attitude that it's possible for someone to "improve it" by changing the end of it. At what point does something stop being "Watchmen" by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons? It might not have worked for everyone, but it was his vision, clear as day. I don't see how changing it is an "improvement" and not a "compromise".
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Because he's working in a different medium.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
At what point does something stop being "Watchmen" by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons?
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The correct answer to that would be Sam Hamm's 1988 screenplay, and to a lesser extent, David Hayter's initial screenplay.
 
Scullibundo said:
Because he's working in a different medium.
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I get that. Like I said. It's a compromise to the medium. I don't see how it can be seen as an "improvement" when it is actively replacing a segment of the original work. But you know me, seriously. I get way hung up on semantical shit like that.
 
Tieno said:
Just finished the motion comics and he says that his test subjects didn't have the mind of someone like Jon to 'guide' their teleportation.
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so it causes spontaneous explosions? Laurie teleported multiple times but just threw up, and a huge mass of people teleported - but only resulted in 2 heart attacks. I don't get where the spontaneous explosion is coming from? People don't just explode - like you know...sending giant destructive shock waves and fireballs (I know it was a giant squid...but still) There had to be something that Ozy was fuckin up to make things explode like that, which he obviously used to his advantage.
 
Scullibundo said:
Because he's working in a different medium.
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with limited time. there just isnt enough time to give all the background on the squid. without it, it wouldnt work at all. it would be a bit ridiculous. as long as the new ending works in context, i have no issue with it.
 
Who watches the Watchmen? ROTTEN WATCH DOES!

Has anyone made that joke yet? Probably... But I still thought of it all on my own.
 
Extollere said:
so it causes spontaneous explosions? Laurie teleported multiple times but just threw up, and a huge mass of people teleported - but only resulted in 2 heart attacks. I don't get where the spontaneous explosion is coming from? People don't just explode - like you know...sending giant destructive shock waves and fireballs (I know it was a giant squid...but still) There had to be something that Ozy was fuckin up to make things explode like that, which he obviously used to his advantage.
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Without the guiding mind of Jon there to reassemble all the molecules in their correct order test subjects would explode on arrival or be fused into solid material. If you're a Star Trek fan then imagine the transporter fucking up and Chief O Brien having to reassemble every molecule in order (ie. he couldn't, the person would inevitably die or reassemble in some fucked up form, which would no doubt plead "Killlll Meeeeee" with the closest person)

Jon was able to use his abilities to ensure this didn't happen and people were transported and reassembled in their proper form. Any side effects were as a result of shock of being instantly transported between two places. For example, Laurie threw up upon arrival, some people suffered heart attacks upon finding themselves somewhere different. However lots of people who Jon transported suffered no side-effects of transportation (ie. Rorschach in the first chapter)
 
Ok, Jon guided them. I still don't get why they just you know...explode. I realize this is going off in a useless tangent, and all that really matters is that the bad guy has his big blowing up device...and even though a man who can teleport, and live in mars can make sense to me, things just randomly exploding somehow doesn't. I guess because it isn't explained other than "they just do" kinda thing.

sionyboy said:
Without the guiding mind of Jon there to reassemble all the molecules in their correct order test subjects would explode on arrival or be fused into solid material. If you're a Star Trek fan then imagine the transporter fucking up and Chief O Brien having to reassemble every molecule in order (ie. he couldn't, the person would inevitably die or reassemble in some fucked up form, which would no doubt plead "Killlll Meeeeee" with the closest person)
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Being fused into solid matter of disarranged particles is a pretty logical and understandable side effect of failed teleportation...I mean, assuming how we know it to work in sci-fi terms, but exploding? Ah well, this is sci-fi we're talking about here, might as well just toss that in there to conveniently accommodate the villain.

I guess now I see why they were needing to change the ending, as this would throw someone like me entirely of guard and confused, even more so if it goes mostly unexplained in a movie. Anyways, looking forward to seeing this movie that I was totally uninterested in until I had read the book....which was fascinating. Can't wait to read some user reviews when more people start seeing it.
 
Is this poster available anywhere with just the art? I want to use it as an iPhone wallpaper but I don't want any of the text.

teaser.jpg
 
Extollere said:
This isn't a huge spoiler, at least I don't think, but Veidt mentions that in Nixon's intended speech he makes a reference to them (the USA?) being the Watchmen of the walls of freedom, or something like that.
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It's actually
a line taken from the speech that JFK was going to give the day of his assassination.

Chapter 11 p.18
"'We in this country, in this generation, are by destiny, rather than choice, the watchmen on the walls of world freedom.'"

And I do believe the entire phrase "Who Watches the Watchmen" is shown in graffiti at one point, although it usually appears in parts.
 
And let us not forget that Jon Osterman was going to be a watchmaker, which if he had done would have led to an entirely different comic called "Watchman", a man who fights crime with his array of trusty watches.

True story.
 
Managed to get a ticket to Monday nights screener in Denver. It's at our IMAX theater,but doesn't say if it will be in the IMAX theater or one of the normal ones.
 
XMonkey said:
It's actually
a line taken from the speech that JFK was going to give the day of his assassination.

Chapter 11 p.18
"'We in this country, in this generation, are by destiny, rather than choice, the watchmen on the walls of world freedom.'"

And I do believe the entire phrase "Who Watches the Watchmen" is shown in graffiti at one point, although it usually appears in parts.
Click to expand...

Yeah but it would have been a really cool little insight to see when or why they chose the name Watchmen for their group. You see in one scene where they are calling themselves the Crimebusters, so sometime after that they must have switched to the Watchmen. How did it happen? Did society coin this name I wonder, or did they use it first themselves. Having Veidt explain to them the bit about the intended speech makes it seem as though maybe they didn't even know they had an official name for their group.
 
Extollere said:
Yeah but it would have been a really cool little insight to see when or why they chose the name Watchmen for their group. You see in one scene where they are calling themselves the Crimebusters, so sometime after that they must have switched to the Watchmen. How did it happen? Did society coin this name I wonder, or did they use it first themselves. Having Veidt explain to them the bit about the intended speech makes it seem as though maybe they didn't even know they had an official name for their group.
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They never chose a name for the group, nor did they ever go by the collective name of 'Watchmen'. It sounds like that this has been changed in the movie since Rorschach does refer to costumed adventurers as Watchmen.

The people who grafitti "Who Watches the Watchmen" are making a political statement about the legality of costumed vigilantes and their place in society, they are not doing it because that is the groups name.

edit: The quote is latin in origin, "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?", the literal translation is "Who guards the guards themselves" although its been changed over time to make it sound a little snappier. Its use in the comic is purely derogatory towards costumed adventurers, as Comedian says in one part "They've started writing this all over the city, they don't trust us anymore". (or something like that)
 
sionyboy said:
They never chose a name for the group, nor did they ever go by the collective name of 'Watchmen'. It sounds like that this has been changed in the movie since Rorschach does refer to costumed adventurers as Watchmen.

The people who grafitti "Who Watches the Watchmen" are making a political statement about the legality of costumed vigilantes and their place in society, they are not doing it because that is the groups name.

edit: The quote is latin in origin, "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?", the literal translation is "Who guards the guards themselves" although its been changed over time to make it sound a little snappier. Its use in the comic is purely derogatory towards costumed adventurers, as Comedian says in one part "They've started writing this all over the city, they don't trust us anymore". (or something like that)
Click to expand...

Ah ok, thanks for that wiki entry, helpful..
 
sionyboy said:
They never chose a name for the group, nor did they ever go by the collective name of 'Watchmen'. It sounds like that this has been changed in the movie since Rorschach does refer to costumed adventurers as Watchmen.
Click to expand...

They were called Crimebusters in the comic.
 
Blader5489 said:
They were called Crimebusters in the comic.
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Nelson proposed they called themselves the Crimebusters, although given how that meeting turned out I don't think that the name was ever used outside that room.
 
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