-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Rottenwatch: WATCHMEN
- Thread starter DevelopmentArrested
- Start date
- Status
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
People are being far to harsh on the scoring in my opinion, stating things like "Moore didn't intend for those lyrics to burst out during the scene!" isn't exactly valid since Moore never intended for it to be in the movie in the first place. It's compromise and to be honest I think it's more than acceptable for the chapter footnotes to become the score as an equivilent, I don't see a generic movie soundtrack improving things at all. It's much like showing the two Bernie's hug, it doesn't have the impact of the comic because there's no time to create the sub-plot but I'm happy it's still there and it doesn't confuse things, where as the fighting in the street would.
My only major issues with the film are these where Snyder's taken liberties with the source material rather than having to include everything.
Though with all that said it was a far better adaptation than I could of hoped for.
My only major issues with the film are these where Snyder's taken liberties with the source material rather than having to include everything.
Rorschach's origin was a fucking stupid move, he made it look like Ror was getting off over the killing which was never what the character was about. The second Mars scene "The comedian's your father..." and everything that happened in the Antarctic was terrible. Also you're never told Ozy's a paragon of human perfection, I couldn't help but ask myself how the hell this lanky tall kid throwing 250 pound men out of windows and beating the hell out of two men who can each take on 20 people at once, breaking bones instinctively during the process. On a personal level this made the whole bullet catching thing really pointless, not only that but he didn't boast about it with an awesome smirk, Ozy as a whole was nowhere near arrogant enough.
Though with all that said it was a far better adaptation than I could of hoped for.
JayDubya said:
well, he may have thought that they would figure it out, so it was safer to bring them to Antartica where he could either
1) Kill them.
2) Convert them.
He had to know that Manhattan would figure out what happened at the very least, so trying to convince some of the other heroes to keep silent may have been part of his plan all along. And if they didn't, he could be sure they were dead.
1) Kill them.
2) Convert them.
He had to know that Manhattan would figure out what happened at the very least, so trying to convince some of the other heroes to keep silent may have been part of his plan all along. And if they didn't, he could be sure they were dead.
Randy Lanzarote
Member
I think one of the hallmarks of 80s fiction was that
a) All computers have a back door entry left in by the programmer
b) Passwords for computers inevitably have a personal connection to the computer owner, ie. dead wife, dead child, idol who they obsessively try to mimic etc.
Thankfully in today's modern world people are a lot smarter and create passwords which are a little more secure (probably due to 80s fiction teaching us all important lessons)
a) All computers have a back door entry left in by the programmer
b) Passwords for computers inevitably have a personal connection to the computer owner, ie. dead wife, dead child, idol who they obsessively try to mimic etc.
Thankfully in today's modern world people are a lot smarter and create passwords which are a little more secure (probably due to 80s fiction teaching us all important lessons)
DevelopmentArrested
Banned
a 56 million haul is pretty great for an R-rated nearly 3 hour movie.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Cheebs said:
well, 60 was considered the optimistic estimate, and merchandising is a big part of the profit motive, so I doubt it's a big deal. The theater I saw it in was packed.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
That's definitely not the number the studio wanted. Mixed word of mouth isn't going to help either. It won't suffer a Friday the 13th sized decline, but this movie is going to top at $120mil at best. But I bet its closer to 100mil. It'll make its money on blu-ray/dvd, digital downloads, etc.
DevelopmentArrested
Banned
BlackMage said:
That's funny. Because the first trailer for the Watchmen was horrendous and I felt the movie turned out good. Cute dog though.
Decado said:
It's an estimate.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
StoOgE said:
That number is somewhat evened out by the fact that Watchmen opened in more theaters than 300.
3,611 for Watchmen vs. 3,103 for 300.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Tobor said:
im kind of in this boat. Something just seemed "off" about it. I come from a little different perspective as i read the graphic novel for the first time like 2 days before watching the movie. I think its that the novel seems to rely so much on the backstory and the flashbacks shaping these characters relationships and their motivations, and thats kind of lost in the transition. A lot just feels glossed over. It doesn't feel like a rich, developed world that was created in the comics, with the history going back to the original masked heroes. Its hard to blame the movie makers as that kind of stuff would be pretty much impossible to pack into a 3 hour movie, but i think thats what has missing for me.
DevelopmentArrested
Banned
StoOgE said:
To be fair, Watchmen opened in 500 more theatres.
- edit: posted. Still not sure, how anyone could think watchmen is a flop by any means.
Broadbandito
Member
Saw it last night, really enjoyed it.
Arhal_Katarn
Junior Member
Watched the film last night and having never read the comic book i can say it was pretty poor. The fight scenes where very good and graphic but the film had no direction for the first hour. The only interesting character was rorschach,nite owl looked like someone at a fancy dress contest as batman. Overall i would give it 6 out of ten.
polyh3dron
Banned
JayDubya said:
Ozy could have EASILY killed Nite Owl and Silk Spectre, but he didn't.
polyh3dron
Banned
Regardless, it's something for the suits to blame it on.Solo said:
DevelopmentArrested said:
300 was also just under 2 hrs. Most of the theaters in my area aren't getting more than 4 showtimes a screen for Watchmen versus easily fitting 5 or 6 for something like 300. It's not really that hard to figure out. It's still trailing 300 but not by that much.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Cheebs said:
Pretty good for an R rated, nearly 3 hour film. I'd argue the buzz/hype 300 generated was a lot greater than that of Watchmen. Not just the crazy internet response - that movie appealed to everyone. People probably look at the Watchmen trailer and think it's a comic rip off with bad costumes ahoy
ChoklitReign
Member
I just found out that the song during the credits is played by My Chemical Romance...covering Bob Dylan...in a Watchmen movie...ಠ_ಠ
My main problem was how rushed the film was. Nearly every scene overlaps, so that you here the sound effects/dialogue of the next scene whilst it's doing the fade out/dramatic silence of the previous scene and then you switch the next scene to the object/person making the noise.
Dialogue that required a 1 second beat of silence and close-up camera shot was just overlaid on top of the action shots, e.g. Jon explaining how he survived Ozy's machine lost to the sound of splintering glass when he goes giant. Them making the moral decision at the end was over so fast that Rorscach had left before i realised they'd finished the discussion. Ozy explaining how he's made himself feel every death as penance was lost to background noise.
Most people in the cinema didn't understand what the riots in the flashback were about. I bet nearly all of them missed the "keene act" mention&explanation, that in film just sounded like "kinact".
Dialogue that required a 1 second beat of silence and close-up camera shot was just overlaid on top of the action shots, e.g. Jon explaining how he survived Ozy's machine lost to the sound of splintering glass when he goes giant. Them making the moral decision at the end was over so fast that Rorscach had left before i realised they'd finished the discussion. Ozy explaining how he's made himself feel every death as penance was lost to background noise.
Most people in the cinema didn't understand what the riots in the flashback were about. I bet nearly all of them missed the "keene act" mention&explanation, that in film just sounded like "kinact".
DevelopmentArrested
Banned
Zenith said:
Can't really blame the rushed feel on the director at all considering he wanted and filmed a longer version. Blame the 'people in the cinema' and the studio's need to cater to them.
DevelopmentArrested said:
Actually I can. Not all his fault by any means but you can make a competent case against him. He knew no studio would greenlight a 3 hour version of this for general release. he tried to stuff too much into too little time. find some stuff to cut or incorporate their "meaning" into other scenes. make a better adaptation.
there's a reason why people said this would work better as a mini series than a film.
DevelopmentArrested
Banned
Zenith said:
and until the director's cut comes out.. we still can't confirm this to be true.
DevelopmentArrested
Banned
Flynn said:
songs = good.
misused with poor juxtaposition = bad.
SpeedingUptoStop
will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
I AM VERY DISAPPOINTED IN YOU, ADRIAN.
MisterHero
Super Member
i wonder if Adrian is capable of figuring out how to replicate Manhattan's creation
imagine if everyone were indestructible energy beings
imagine if everyone were indestructible energy beings
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
The new ending is not an improvement, at all. I don't know that it's any worse, but it's certainly not better.
In the GN, the whole point is that this outside entity, this unknown squid-thing, comes and completely destroys a city in the most graphic, disturbing way possible. I don't think, in this case, that Russia would kick America while it's down. If it had been a terrorist attack or something like that, yeah, Russia would have been all over that. However, because the threat comes from the complete unknown, Russia is forced to acknowledge that their safety, and the safety of humanity itself, has been compromised. They don't know if more aliens might come, they don't know if there is any chance of having any effect against such a foe, they don't know anything. The only thing thing that anybody knows is that in the face of an outside threat, human conflict must end if there is to be any hope of survival; the idea of human wars ending when an extraterrestrial threat is introduced is an oft-repeated philosophical notion. In my opinion, this is the far superior ending.
I do, however, acknowledge that the new ending has merits of its own. As has been said, this creates the notion that Dr. Manhattan has ascended to the realm of 'God' in the mind of humanity. As Veidt says, the attacks are 'punishment for flirting with World War III', and I think we're led to believe that humanity would come to realize that as well. Thus, Manhattan becomes a vengeful, Old Testament-style God, looming over humanity and forcing them to behave a certain way, lest further destruction be brought upon them. The new ending has an entirely different philosophical notion, in my opinion. It still has the question of whether or not humanity's survival is worth mass murder, but I think the survival itself has less honor, here. Rather than coming together for the common good of the world, the people of the world come together out of fear of a frightening father-figure. I don't think this makes it less valid of an ending than the graphic novel, I just think that the dialogue that it raises is very different.
In the GN, the whole point is that this outside entity, this unknown squid-thing, comes and completely destroys a city in the most graphic, disturbing way possible. I don't think, in this case, that Russia would kick America while it's down. If it had been a terrorist attack or something like that, yeah, Russia would have been all over that. However, because the threat comes from the complete unknown, Russia is forced to acknowledge that their safety, and the safety of humanity itself, has been compromised. They don't know if more aliens might come, they don't know if there is any chance of having any effect against such a foe, they don't know anything. The only thing thing that anybody knows is that in the face of an outside threat, human conflict must end if there is to be any hope of survival; the idea of human wars ending when an extraterrestrial threat is introduced is an oft-repeated philosophical notion. In my opinion, this is the far superior ending.
I do, however, acknowledge that the new ending has merits of its own. As has been said, this creates the notion that Dr. Manhattan has ascended to the realm of 'God' in the mind of humanity. As Veidt says, the attacks are 'punishment for flirting with World War III', and I think we're led to believe that humanity would come to realize that as well. Thus, Manhattan becomes a vengeful, Old Testament-style God, looming over humanity and forcing them to behave a certain way, lest further destruction be brought upon them. The new ending has an entirely different philosophical notion, in my opinion. It still has the question of whether or not humanity's survival is worth mass murder, but I think the survival itself has less honor, here. Rather than coming together for the common good of the world, the people of the world come together out of fear of a frightening father-figure. I don't think this makes it less valid of an ending than the graphic novel, I just think that the dialogue that it raises is very different.
Son of Godzilla
Banned
Yea. Watchtower especially was nicely done, it was incredibly ominous and just letting it blare as they get to Antartica worked well. It was the actual scene with the lame "Pull up" bit that sucked. That could have been done without any voice, easily.
A whole lot of the "impact" scenes just fell flat. Stuff that was incredibly badass in the comic, and just didn't work here. The Comedian turning on Jon in Vietnam, Laurie's revelation on Mars. Jon's "experiencing all time at once" didn't come across at all. Rorschach's prison escape was downright lame and made no sense. I don't remember what changed from his origin story, so can't say anything.
But anyways, I liked the film. Dan was too likeable and not fat enough, but eh. Also Ozy's plan in either of them is hollow and unbelievable. The world uniting against Jon quite simply does not make sense.
We're spoilering this? Really?
But anyways, I liked the film. Dan was too likeable and not fat enough, but eh. Also Ozy's plan in either of them is hollow and unbelievable. The world uniting against Jon quite simply does not make sense.
We're spoilering this? Really?
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Count of Monte Sawed-Off said:
Does this mean I can throw this out for use next week?
I never got the idea that Dan was impotent because of his 'need' for the suit/persona. If that is in the comic, that is pretty cool - I see it now that I'm told, and it does make sense, and makes the scenes have more relevance. That's cool.
As for the ending again, I don't think Doc Manhattan as the cause make sense. The squid works in an 'Independence Day' type of scenario. If Aliens were to suddenly appear and attack Earth - no matter where - the Earth WOULD probably band together. But if an American made 'weapon' goes haywire? There would be a lot of scapegoating, blame, and enemies would simply laugh. I need to see the film again - but did 'doc M' 'attack' other cities? I heard it mentioned (Like Hong Kong and so on).
As for the ending again, I don't think Doc Manhattan as the cause make sense. The squid works in an 'Independence Day' type of scenario. If Aliens were to suddenly appear and attack Earth - no matter where - the Earth WOULD probably band together. But if an American made 'weapon' goes haywire? There would be a lot of scapegoating, blame, and enemies would simply laugh. I need to see the film again - but did 'doc M' 'attack' other cities? I heard it mentioned (Like Hong Kong and so on).
just got back from seeing a morning showing with the woman, we both loved it.being a fan of the GN, i went in knowing what to expect (including the ending) and i was pretty much thrilled with what was presented, a direct adaptation of the original material. for the most part, all the important things were in it, including much of the backstory and character development of the major players. the new ending made perfect sense in my mind, and even maybe superior to the original (blasphemy!). surprisingly, my lady really enjoyed it too. she said she had a bit of a hard time following eveything at first but she really dug the themes and characters.
our only complaints:
- the fight scenes. these people (w/ the exception of the dr.) are supposed to be human. the fight scenes were way too exaggerated. punches and kicks in real life dont send people flying backwards 30 feet flipping through the air.
- silk spectre sounded like drew barrymore
- the archie porno scene. that felt really awkward and out of place.
- ozy. while the actor did a decent enough job with the role, i dont think they got the look right for the part. they also didnt present him as a super athlete to go along with his brains. lastly,
- early unmasked rorschach didnt seem to be as prevalent or visible as in the comic
- the blue penis! not that it shouldnt be there, a being like the dr. wouldnt give a shit for clothing as he lost touch with his own humanity, but it was distracting. blame my american upbringing. on the drive home my fiance said she couldnt get it out of her mind. to be perfectly honest, i cant either.
-
our only complaints:
- the fight scenes. these people (w/ the exception of the dr.) are supposed to be human. the fight scenes were way too exaggerated. punches and kicks in real life dont send people flying backwards 30 feet flipping through the air.
- silk spectre sounded like drew barrymore
- the archie porno scene. that felt really awkward and out of place.
- ozy. while the actor did a decent enough job with the role, i dont think they got the look right for the part. they also didnt present him as a super athlete to go along with his brains. lastly,
my fiance said she knew he was the badguy the moment he first appeared in the movie, just as i had feared.
- the blue penis! not that it shouldnt be there, a being like the dr. wouldnt give a shit for clothing as he lost touch with his own humanity, but it was distracting. blame my american upbringing. on the drive home my fiance said she couldnt get it out of her mind. to be perfectly honest, i cant either.
-
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
BenjaminBirdie said:
Haha nice. Well there's always a chance.
- Status